Update: deadbeat landlord showed and (ahem) fixed the drywall (now with photo)

[brittone2]

Updated thread in post 54 w/ the details of the (ahem) fix. ;) I'm sure you are all bored by now but thought I'd give a somewhat amusing update. Added a photo a bit down thread from the update. Feel free to laugh or cry with me :54:
================================================== =========================================


I don't know if you remember my old threads about my very deadbeat landlord situation, but well...he's a deadbeat LOL. A few weeks ago I photographed the existing damage to the house and mailed it to him with return receipt since he has not done a walk through with us. I also used that opportunity to request, in writing, that the totally cracked bathroom window be repaired (was supposed to be done prior to our moving in). I requested he let us know in the next ten days, blah blah. He's never even acknowledged that. At this point I could technically do "repair and deduct" in my state.

A few days ago, we had a major leak upstairs. THe supply line for the hall bath went (was a little weird before) and blew a huge leak. Leaked downstairs into the kitchen. THere is significant drywall damage.

DH called to let him know. We did what we could to minimize the damage, but yeah, its pretty significant. DH let him know it was probably a professional job, kwim? (and my DH is rather handy).

My not so handy landlord (remember, this is the guy who "repaired" a huge # of things in this house using gorilla glue, mopped stain onto the deck before our arrival, splashing it all over the siding, etc. etc) said he has the "know how" and "the tools" to do the repair himself (DH and I are kinda :ROTFLMAO: at the idea of this. Drywall isn't so easy, especially on a ceiling!). He drives a small upscale sedan...and is going to "pick up drywall" on the way up this weekend (I don't think he could even fit enough in his car....).

Sooooo....we're supposed to be here to let him in and discuss the photos we sent detailing the damage around here. I can almost guarantee he'll be an hour or two late, if he shows at all. I think we should just head out asap after we let him in. I mean, I really, really think this drywall thing is going to go badly. He is not handy, and I have no idea what planet he's living on thinking he can do the job. I think DH feels a little like he should stick around to help. But based on the history and the total lack of *any* response to any requests we've made for repairs around here....ummm...I don't particularly feel an ethical obligation to help this guy out.

Should we stay or should we bail out of here and not help him? I think even if DH stays, I have to get out of here because I will probably laugh or gasp at the way the "repairs" are going to go around here. I assume landlord thinks DH is going to help as it is going to be mighty tough to hang drywall on the ceiling by himself. But....in light of the way things have gone, I don't think we have an obligation just because he's choosing to do it himself, kwim?

eta: also, this is the landlord that left the house quite dirty (stove/range/hood literally encased in a thick layer of grease that probably accumulated for a loooong time and involved multiple soaks in degreaser solution, I scraped moss out of the window frames when we moved in, and spent about 5-7 hours removing the packing tape previous tenants left covering every single window in the house. Not just a piece or two, but many pieces on each window. Had to soak with goo be gone or veggie oil and scrape it off using a razor blade....) Dh has already repaired several issues including the blown ground fault circuit which left every single outlet near a mirror in a bathroom useless...meaning I had to blowdry my hair in the hallway when we moved in. In my state, there was no way to obligate LL to fix the blown ground fault circuit).

[missym]

I'm sorry, but I don't know whether you should hug your DH or :6: him for even thinking of helping! I think you have a family obligation elsewhere doing... something! For the rest of the day. Don't you? ;)

[wellyes]

When I saw the thread title I thought "yes, if you can, give him a hand". Reading your description, though, I'd say forget it. His property, his liability. Plus yeah, putting drywall on a ceiling is NOT easy and not pleasant either.

This kind of reminded me of that episode of 'Parenthood' this week where the blowhard patriarch made mistake after mistake making home repairs while his (professional certified contractor) son-in-law tried to help but was rebuffed. Anyone who says they have the know how when you KNOW they don't is not going to be fun to "help".

[brittone2]

I'm sorry, but I don't know whether you should hug your DH or :6: him for even thinking of helping! I think you have a family obligation elsewhere doing... something! For the rest of the day. Don't you? ;)

Oh, I can think of a loooooong list of stuff I "need" to be doing. Believe me!!! I actually think I might have DH on board with that but thought this thread might sway him LOL ;)

He's just a really, really nice guy and I think he feels a little bad leaving the guy trying to do a difficult repair by himself. My thinking is he's *choosing* to do the repair himself and not pay a professional. He does anything he can to avoid putting ANY $$ into this house (which is a lovely house in a great neighborhood, and the house will sadly soon to be falling apart due to the neglect! It is rapidly approaching the point of no return IMO...the roof needs done, there is a major leak into the garage , etc. etc.)

[egoldber]

No, your DH shoudl NOT stay and help. I would probably stay but only because I would be afraid that he would damage my property!

[brittone2]

When I saw the thread title I thought "yes, if you can, give him a hand". Reading your description, though, I'd say forget it. His property, his liability. Plus yeah, putting drywall on a ceiling is NOT easy and not pleasant either.

This kind of reminded me of that episode of 'Parenthood' this week where the blowhard patriarch made mistake after mistake making home repairs while his (professional certified contractor) son-in-law tried to help but was rebuffed. Anyone who says they have the know how when you KNOW they don't is not going to be fun to "help".

We haven't caught the new episode/season Parenthood yet (will watch on Hulu) but now I'm so going to be thinking of our situation when I watch!

Yeah, drywall isn't really fun for anyone, let alone on a ceiling, and with a guy who totally is the opposite of handy (as one of our good friends says, he's "handy like a snake" :ROTFLMAO:)

[pinkmomagain]

You should stay and not help, your DH should disappear for the day...he is going to be too tempted to help.

[brittone2]

No, your DH shoudl NOT stay and help. I would probably stay but only because I would be afraid that he would damage my property!

Our realtor came by a few days ago and was :ROTFLMAO:about some of the stuff going on around here.

we're starting the househunt.

Selfishly, I would like the repair to look nice so I don't have to think about it all of the time while we are here, and because our realtor has offered to try to fill the house w/ a tenant for the landlord (our lease and state laws allow us to vacate with 90 days notice, and then landlord has to be actively looking to fill the house. Our district is a good one and larger rentals are apparently still in demand according to our realtor, who thinks he could fill it in a month once we give him the go ahead. I would like the ceiling to look decent so someone will *want* to rent it.

Dh and I are thinking LL will either see the damage and realize he needs a pro (phew!) or will try to do it himself and it will look like cr@p. IF DH helped maybe it would be somewhere in the middle, but ummm...I almost think it would be better for LL to realize just how bad it is going to look if he tries to do it himself.

[khm]

No. Alone, he'll quickly realize he cannot do this on his own. He'll have to pay someone to help.

Any help your husband offers would just let him shirk his responsibilities fully and completely onto your poor, nice husband.

Don't help him!!

[mommy111]

Should you stay and help.......ummmmmm, NO!
Unless you think he will damage the property enough that you won't be able to live there anymore. In which case I'd have DH go and you can stay home and enjoy the show ;)

[brittone2]

You should stay and not help, your DH should disappear for the day...he is going to be too tempted to help.
If I stayed, I honestly think I'd have to walk away to keep myself from laughing. My dad is super handy and is currently out of state, but was just here recently to visit. I promised him if I stayed I'd secretly videotape the whole thing. My dad has gotten to see firsthand the quality of the "repairs" done around here.

I don't think LL likes me after the most recent *formal* request for the window repair and the detailed list of the problems with the property (since he didn't cooperate with the walk through). Not that I care all that much, but yeah, awkward.

DS1 will probably generate a long list of stuff that needs fixed around here. It disturbs him to no end to see the shoddy work. It is quite funny, but DS1 likes doing repair work with DH and even as a 6yo knows things are not good around here! I'd have to send him out of the house so he isn't providing a running commentary! ;)

[vejemom]

No, you shouldn't help. Fairness issue aside, what happens if you do move out early? LL sounds like the kind of wackadoodle who might get vindicative and claim that DH caused damage to the house helping out and try to hold you liable.

[crl]

I would make sure to photograph the damage before he arrives. Move all personal belongings faarrrr away from the work zone. And leave. I've done drywall, including on the ceiling, with dh and it sucks. No way would I do that kind of work for a landlord like yours.

Catherine

[gatorsmom]

Beth, I remember your other posts about this slumlord. Ugh, I feel for you all around. I haven't read any of the other replies but I''m sure they've given good advice.

Honestly, I think that YOU should stay to supervise this landlord while your DH takes the kids out for the day. I think you need to be there to make sure this guy cleans up afterhimself and doesn't damage any of your property in the kitchen or elsewhere. It would also be better if you were there before the kids got homes so that you can do a thorough job of vacuuming up remaining sheetrock dust. Dry wall is MESSY!! It will leave sheetrock dust all over the place that will get tracked into the carpet and the dust will cling to EVERYTHING. Also, I can guarantee that he will not finish the work on the same day and you really, really need to make it clear that you need the work done by a certain date or you will hold off on paying your rent until it's finished. This is not harsh- unfortunately this is what tenants have to do to motivate their landlords sometimes. :( By letting the work go unfinished, he is not holding up his end of the Lease Agreement promising to provide you a safe place to live.

I really don't think your DH should be around because he might be tempted to help this guy. And if anything goes wrong, the landlord might try to blame it on your DH and ultimately deduct $ it from your security deposit. This guy sounds like a real piece of work and I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him, kwim?

I really hope you are documenting everything. All this could come back to bite you. :hug:

[brittone2]

Beth, I remember your other posts about this slumlord. Ugh, I feel for you all around.

Honestly, I think that YOU should stay to supervise this landlord while your DH takes the kids out for the day. I think you need to be there to make sure this guy cleans up afterhimself and doesn't damage any of your property in the kitchen or elsewhere. It would also be better if you were there before the kids got homes so that you can do a thorough job of vacuuming up remaining sheetrock dust. Dry wall is MESSY!! It will leave sheetrock dust all over the place that will get tracked into the carpet and the dust will cling to EVERYTHING. Also, I can guarantee that he will not finish the work on the same day and you really, really need to make it clear that you need the work done by a certain date or you will hold off on paying your rent until it's finished. This is not harsh- unfortunately this is what tenants have to do to motivate their landlords sometimes. :( By letting the work go unfinished, he is not holding up his end of the Lease Agreement promising to provide you a safe place to live.

I really don't think your DH should be around because he might be tempted to help this guy. And if anything goes wrong, the landlord might try to blame it on your DH and ultimately deduct $ it from your security deposit. This guy sounds like a real piece of work and I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him, kwim?

I really hope you are documenting everything. All this could come back to bite you. :hug:

Oh yes, we've been documenting to the best of our ability (meaning LL is not a willing participant. We at least have the photos of the damage that was here when we moved in since he hasn't done a walk through 5 months into our lease!). (eta: I will definitely photograph the drywall damage before he gets here)

Not sure if the drywall will be a habitability issue or not. I mean, I think it totally needs to be fixed but when I read the law it seems tough to prove something makes your house uninhabitable in my state (the examples cited are rather extreme IMO! water running down walls, no hot water for several days, no working bathroom, that kind of thing). I'm not a lawyer though. The window thing could possibly be a habitability situation which is why I wanted to documented (and am keeping that in my back pocket in case it is needed).

When I was reading up on tenant law they did mention that landlords choosing to do remodeling, etc. while you live there can be a habitability issue for obvious reasons (this came to mind as he originally mentioned when we moved in that he'd like to put granite and tile in the kitchen to eventually help sell the house...which is a joke because so many other things need to be prioritized above that, but that's another story).

The catch is he *asked* us if we wanted the drywall replaced. So now I wonder if he starts it, will it be a "habitability" issue since we said yes?? Meaning, if we are living in construction debris, but the drywall didn't *technically* have to be removed as a habitability issue...is that enough to compel him to finish, etc?

I realize there's a risk of mold if the damp drywall is left up there (which concerns me as there are parts of the drywall that buckled, and then just some areas where you can see there was water damage but I'm thinking he'll likely just kind of paint over it...kwim? Yikes. ).

Oh, and the upstairs hall bath is still essentially unusable because we turn the water on/off at the valve right now to prevent further leakage. Landlord *should* be fixing that, but again, in my state it seems like that doesn't clearly qualify for repair and deduct/habitability since there is another full bath and half bath that works. It seems like there has to be no working bathroom for it to be a true "habitability" issue from what I read?

At the same time, I mean...we rented a 2.5 bath house and now we can't use one of those bathrooms. As I mentioned before, LL waited until right as DH was signing the lease (hour drive from this place w/ 2 worn out kids who had traveled out of state for a house hunt, etc., relieved to think he had finally found a place....) to say "oh yeah, I need one bay of the garage to keep my stuff, I have more stuff in the basement (pool table, weight equipment, elliptical) and oh, I'll need to leave my desk in one of the bedrooms (which did I mention was propped up with cardboard BOXES and was a deathtrap for my kids, so DH currently has half of that disassembled. We couldn't fit one of our full sized beds in there otherwise). So ummm....more and more of the house we rented isn't even usable to us!! DH signed the lease as he was under the gun, had been driving around all over trying to find a house in a short time frame (we had movers scheduled and no place to live, and were moving 9+ hours away). So technically there's nothing I can do about LL occupying half of our 2 car garage, half of a bedroom w / his desk, etc. because that was written into the lease. But the bathroom situation is annoying.



Really, I know we need to see a lawyer in the end, but I'm hoping to just be OUT of here before long.

eta: oh, and I totally don't trust him. I think DH thought I was nuts initially because this guy has a very smooth way of being very friendly, etc. in correspondence but then not following through, which I think is a "dumb like a fox" situation, kwim?

For example, the hot water heater has been needing reset a few times a month. Just have to unplug and plug it back in (in the basement) and it works again. DH gave him a heads up and just said, did this ever happen to you before? LL is all..."oh, no, it didn't. Thanks for letting me know. Time for service! I will call to schedule a svc. appt. Can you give me the phone # on the unit" Then emails DH about something else and says "oh, the service co. never got back to me.". And I can guarantee that will be that, and he won't really follow up any further. KWIM? and in my state, looking at the laws, I don't think having to reset the water heater is enough to prove the place isn't "habitable" and allow me to break the lease. At least, not in my non lawyerly reading of it.

That's how he operates. He's very "oh, I hear you. wow, thanks for letting me know" and then there will be NO follow through. (like w/ the totally cracked window situation, which he has been formally notified about in writing and still has not acknowledged).

edited again to say I am scared to think of what happens if he decides to "repair" the toilet and if it leaks again...oh boy. But will he call in a plumber? Doubtful!!!

On the flip side, I think whether these issues *technically* prove a habitability issue or not, he'd have to be somewhat b@llsy to ever take us to court over it. I'm hoping we can just exit and fill the place w/ new tenants with our realtor's help. Realtor thinks LL would have no case if he tried to recoop anything if we tried to break the lease, but I'm hoping we don't have to get to that point in the ugliness spectrum.

[WolfpackMom]

I think gatorsmom summed up everything I was going to say quite perfectly! :)

[DebbieJ]

no way, no how should your husband help him in any way!!!!!!!!!!

[brittone2]

I am a novice at this (have never been in this situation!).

How can I get him to commit to a timeframe that this will be completed? Type something up and have him sign it?

Suggestions, please :)

How else can I protect myself besides taking pics of the existing damage? I mean, it could technically totally turn into a "he said, they said" situation regardless I think if he wanted to make it ugly :(

Will me "supervising" really do anything in this scenario, other than me being able to make sure my *stuff* isn't getting damaged? I will move it out of the way at least. The kitchen is also pretty open to the adjoining family room...I'm guessing I need to cover the couch, loveseat, etc. with drop cloths?

Ugggggh. :banghead:

Oh, and of course, I have an almost 6 month old who is getting close to crawling. Rolls all over the floor, pivots, etc. and now I'm going to have drywall dust to contend with I guess.

[gatorsmom]

Oh yes, we've been documenting to the best of our ability (meaning LL is not a willing participant. We at least have the photos of the damage that was here when we moved in since he hasn't done a walk through 5 months into our lease!). (eta: I will definitely photograph the drywall damage before he gets here)

Not sure if the drywall will be a habitability issue or not. I mean, I think it totally needs to be fixed but when I read the law it seems tough to prove something makes your house uninhabitable in my state (the examples cited are rather extreme IMO! water running down walls, no hot water for several days, no working bathroom, that kind of thing). I'm not a lawyer though. The window thing could possibly be a habitability situation which is why I wanted to documented (and am keeping that in my back pocket in case it is needed).

When I was reading up on tenant law they did mention that landlords choosing to do remodeling, etc. while you live there can be a habitability issue for obvious reasons (this came to mind as he originally mentioned when we moved in that he'd like to put granite and tile in the kitchen to eventually help sell the house...which is a joke because so many other things need to be prioritized above that, but that's another story).


The catch is he *asked* us if we wanted the drywall replaced. So now I wonder if he starts it, will it be a "habitability" issue since we said yes?? Meaning, if we are living in construction debris, but the drywall didn't *technically* have to be removed as a habitability issue...is that enough to compel him to finish, etc?

I realize there's a risk of mold if the damp drywall is left up there (which concerns me as there are parts of the drywall that buckled, and then just some areas where you can see there was water damage but I'm thinking he'll likely just kind of paint over it...kwim? Yikes. ).

Oh, and the upstairs hall bath is still essentially unusable because we turn the water on/off at the valve right now to prevent further leakage. Landlord *should* be fixing that, but again, in my state it seems like that doesn't clearly qualify for repair and deduct/habitability since there is another full bath and half bath that works. It seems like there has to be no working bathroom for it to be a true "habitability" issue from what I read?

At the same time, I mean...we rented a 2.5 bath house and now we can't use one of those bathrooms. As I mentioned before, LL waited until right as DH was signing the lease (hour drive from this place w/ 2 worn out kids who had traveled out of state for a house hunt, etc., relieved to think he had finally found a place....) to say "oh yeah, I need one bay of the garage to keep my stuff, I have more stuff in the basement (pool table, weight equipment, elliptical) and oh, I'll need to leave my desk in one of the bedrooms (which did I mention was propped up with cardboard BOXES and was a deathtrap for my kids, so DH currently has half of that disassembled. We couldn't fit one of our full sized beds in there otherwise). So ummm....more and more of the house we rented isn't even usable to us!! DH signed the lease as he was under the gun, had been driving around all over trying to find a house in a short time frame (we had movers scheduled and no place to live, and were moving 9+ hours away). So technically there's nothing I can do about LL occupying half of our 2 car garage, half of a bedroom w / his desk, etc. because that was written into the lease. But the bathroom situation is annoying.



Really, I know we need to see a lawyer in the end, but I'm hoping to just be OUT of here before long.

eta: oh, and I totally don't trust him. I think DH thought I was nuts initially because this guy has a very smooth way of being very friendly, etc. in correspondence but then not following through, which I think is a "dumb like a fox" situation, kwim?

For example, the hot water heater has been needing reset a few times a month. Just have to unplug and plug it back in (in the basement) and it works again. DH gave him a heads up and just said, did this ever happen to you before? LL is all..."oh, no, it didn't. Thanks for letting me know. Time for service! I will call to schedule a svc. appt. Can you give me the phone # on the unit" Then emails DH about something else and says "oh, the service co. never got back to me.". And I can guarantee that will be that, and he won't really follow up any further. KWIM? and in my state, looking at the laws, I don't think having to reset the water heater is enough to prove the place isn't "habitable" and allow me to break the lease. At least, not in my non lawyerly reading of it.

That's how he operates. He's very "oh, I hear you. wow, thanks for letting me know" and then there will be NO follow through. (like w/ the totally cracked window situation, which he has been formally notified about in writing and still has not acknowledged).

edited again to say I am scared to think of what happens if he decides to "repair" the toilet and if it leaks again...oh boy. But will he call in a plumber? Doubtful!!!

On the flip side, I think whether these issues *technically* prove a habitability issue or not, he'd have to be somewhat b@llsy to ever take us to court over it. I'm hoping we can just exit and fill the place w/ new tenants with our realtor's help. Realtor thinks LL would have no case if he tried to recoop anything if we tried to break the lease, but I'm hoping we don't have to get to that point in the ugliness spectrum.

Yikes, dumb like a fox is right! Honestly, he KNOWS he's a crappy LL and I bet that it if he ever tried to hold back your security deposit, it wouldnt' take too many threats of legal action for him to back down and give it to you. You just need to sound like you know the law (and it sounds like you are doing your homework) be able to sound threatening enough. Sometimes, that's what slum lords need to get moving. And you know, rather than tell him about issues you have found with his house, another way you could handle that is by saying a bit firmly that you'd be happy to call a plumber/waterheater repairman/painter and deduct the amount of work from your next rent check. All with the firm, but sweet tone of, "we are just trying to be good tenants! :loveeyes: "

ETA: Do you know how the law there handles security deposits? Here we have 3 weeks from when the tenant moves out for the LL to give an itemized list of what deductions were taken from the deposit and the remainder of the deposit. Start reading about that now, because this guy sounds like he has a hard time parting with money. I foresee you having problems getting your money back. :(

[ThreeofUs]

STAY AWAY, Beth. Stay far away. Document the "before" condition of the walls and ceiling with pictures, though. He's going to mess it up royally. What is your next step when he does?

ETA: I see you have taken care of a lot of this. Lisa has a point, though, that he's probably going to mess up more than just this. Her idea of being there when he does it - if you think you won't be in danger - is not a bad one.

Can't you get out of this place?!?!?

[fivi2]

I would not help in any way. If he rents this out after you guys and something happened, he might try to put the blame on your dh. This is LL's house and he needs to be the only one accountable.

ITA with gatorsmom's post!

[brittone2]

I totally get why being involved is a bad idea.

However, on the flip side our lease specifies we are responsible for repairs that are under $50. How do you address things that DH is doing/has done (like replacing the wax rings under each of the toilets, which were slightly oozy/weepy where they meet the floor (ewwwww).? I mean, LL could technically try to make *that* the cause of the leak (it was def. the supply line but you get my drift). I don't get how I can *really* protect us other than documenting (but it could still be he said/she said). I guess showing a pattern of neglect overall might help though, since he has done *no* repairs. Would you *never* fix anything here, even if under $50? It seems so hairy to wade through this stuff :( perhaps I should have taken photos of the 10 pennies shoved under the bathroom toilet downstairs in an attempt to level it since it moves around when you sit on it! grrr.

We are starting our house hunt. Not sure how soon we'll jump...just depends on what we find. I can't deal with another move in the interim.

I still don't think most of these are technically a "habitability" issue from a legal standpoint in my state. I wish they were!!!! Perhaps the cracked window but my research into that leads me to believe it would really just depend on the judge. If they were clear habitability issues I could def. break the lease without any problem. In our case, we seem to fall into this "gray area". We have a usable toilet, hot water, heat, etc. and those are the big "habitability" points in the law from what I can tell :(

Realtor thinks this guy has demonstrated a pattern of ignoring our requests, and the fact that we've sent photos of damage to the property along with formal request to fix the window via certified mail would show a pattern. But realtor is not a lawyer. Realtor also said he knows the condition it was in when we moved in and can attest to it. Not sure how court worthy that would be.

I read the deposit laws but can't recall off the top of my head. I think we're in a state where he has 10 days to list the repairs that need to be made and he has to prove he actually *did* the repairs (not within 10 days but within some time frame).

[alexmommy]

I wouldn't help at all, from a liability standpoint. If the 'repair' goes wrong, he could and would blame your husband. But I would be there--can you set up a secret video camera or something? :) And when can you move out? It might be worthwhile to see a lawyer who is versed in landlord-tenant relations to find out what your options are. I mean, you are paying good money to live in a nasty house that is not what it was advertised to be! Good luck!

[gatorsmom]

I totally get why being involved is a bad idea.

However, on the flip side our lease specifies we are responsible for repairs that are under $50. How do you address things that DH is doing/has done (like replacing the wax rings under each of the toilets, which were slightly oozy/weepy where they meet the floor (ewwwww).? I mean, LL could technically try to make *that* the cause of the leak (it was def. the supply line but you get my drift). I don't get how I can *really* protect us other than documenting (but it could still be he said/she said). I guess showing a pattern of neglect overall might help though, since he has done *no* repairs. Would you *never* fix anything here, even if under $50? It seems so hairy to wade through this stuff :( perhaps I should have taken photos of the 10 pennies shoved under the bathroom toilet downstairs in an attempt to level it since it moves around when you sit on it! grrr.

We are starting our house hunt. Not sure how soon we'll jump...just depends on what we find. I can't deal with another move in the interim.

I still don't think most of these are technically a "habitability" issue from a legal standpoint in my state. I wish they were!!!! Perhaps the cracked window but my research into that leads me to believe it would really just depend on the judge. If they were clear habitability issues I could def. break the lease without any problem. In our case, we seem to fall into this "gray area". We have a usable toilet, hot water, heat, etc. and those are the big "habitability" points in the law from what I can tell :(

Realtor thinks this guy has demonstrated a pattern of ignoring our requests, and the fact that we've sent photos of damage to the property along with formal request to fix the window via certified mail would show a pattern. But realtor is not a lawyer. Realtor also said he knows the condition it was in when we moved in and can attest to it. Not sure how court worthy that would be.

I read the deposit laws but can't recall off the top of my head. I think we're in a state where he has 10 days to list the repairs that need to be made and he has to prove he actually *did* the repairs (not within 10 days but within some time frame).

The reason your lease has the "repairs under $50 are tenant's responsibility" clause is to prevent tenants from throwing away chicken bones in their toilets and causing a major back up (for example). If the tenant knows he will be responsible for the first $50 before any repairs are made, he's less likely to allow that to happen.

However in your case, all this stuff needed to be repaired BEFORE you moved in. And if you have a camera with a date stamp that you used to take pictures of this place before moving in (this is where the move-in/move-out checklist would have really helped), then you can prove you didn't cause the damage, it was there before you moved in. And in THAT situation, your DH could have replaced the wax rings and deducted the cost of materials (and labor, if you are gutsy enough to try it) from your rent payment with the receipts attached.

I agree that this LL has been showing a nice little pattern of neglect. If you have enough documentation and the realtor as a witness, I think you could easily pursuade a judge to see it your way (of course, that depends on if your state is more pro-LL or pro-tenant). Not that you ever want to have to go to court, but if you are prepared enough to go to court, and you can make that apparent in subtle ways to the LL, then maybe he'll be less lazy around you and more willing to get your work done.

Honestly, my gut says, you can start to look into specific laws about if the house is technically habitable with or without a ceiling in the kitchen but I think that all you would have to do is walk into court with your documentation and photos. You tell a judge that you ahve 3 little kids, you moved into this place expecting X and these photos show what you are living with. A judge is going to look at your documentation and photos and side with you. Again, no one wants to go to court so you have to make it clear somehow to the LL that you are not going to let this rest and you know your rights. Scare him enough and maybe he'll make your living situation a a little better. again big :hug: . This guy is despicable.

[WatchingThemGrow]

At the same time, I mean...we rented a 2.5 bath house and now we can't use one of those bathrooms.

DH signed the lease as he was under the gun, had been driving around all over trying to find a house in a short time frame (we had movers scheduled and no place to live, and were moving 9+ hours away).
"And we had a newborn!" Don't forget that one..

I'm just wondering about the fact that you're not getting the full value of the contract/money you are paying since one of the bathrooms is unusable. I wish I had advice for you...I thought renting was supposed to be easier than buying.

[brittone2]

The reason your lease has the "repairs under $50 are tenant's responsibility" clause is to prevent tenants from throwing away chicken bones in their toilets and causing a major back up (for example). If the tenant knows he will be responsible for the first $50 before any repairs are made, he's less likely to allow that to happen.

However in your case, all this stuff needed to be repaired BEFORE you moved in. And if you have a camera with a date stamp that you used to take pictures of this place before moving in (this is where the move-in/move-out checklist would have really helped), then you can prove you didn't cause the damage, it was there before you moved in. And in THAT situation, your DH could have replaced the wax rings and deducted the cost of materials (and labor, if you are gutsy enough to try it) from your rent payment with the receipts attached.

I agree that this LL has been showing a nice little pattern of neglect. If you have enough documentation and the realtor as a witness, I think you could easily pursuade a judge to see it your way (of course, that depends on if your state is more pro-LL or pro-tenant). Not that you ever want to have to go to court, but if you are prepared enough to go to court, and you can make that apparent in subtle ways to the LL, then maybe he'll be less lazy around you and more willing to get your work done.

Honestly, my gut says, you can start to look into specific laws about if the house is technically habitable with or without a ceiling in the kitchen but I think that all you would have to do is walk into court with your documentation and photos. You tell a judge that you ahve 3 little kids, you moved into this place expecting X and these photos show what you are living with. A judge is going to look at your documentation and photos and side with you. Again, no one wants to go to court so you have to make it clear somehow to the LL that you are not going to let this rest and you know your rights. Scare him enough and maybe he'll make your living situation a a little better. again big :hug: . This guy is despicable.

Right, it should have been repaired prior to moving in. Unfortunately, we didn't get that written into the lease (DH I'm sure was overwhelmed while this was all going down, under the gun timewise, with two kids along and being out of state, and then driving an hour to the LL's realtor's office). Obviously a mistake in hindsight.

and obviously we never should have let him walk out without the walk through. No doubt about it. I know i posted this part before but we met up with him to get the key after a 9+ hour drive w/ the two older kids and a 6 week old, got here in a thunderstorm on a Friday night. LL was driving up from the city, which is about an hour drive typically, but because it was a Friday, there was a lot of rain, etc. he was about 2 hours late and we were trapped in the car for a good portion of that because of the thunderstorm (and no keys). By the time he got here and said we could do the walk through at a later day...well, crazy us just thought that we would do it a few weeks later. He always has a way of saying that stuff and being all schmoozy. At that point we were still *somewhat* naive to his actions.

That's why a month ago I sent the letter w/ the photos documenting the existing damage to this place. At that point in time, it is the best I could do to get *something* documented about the condition. I did write a lengthy list of things wrong w/ the place and did write that it took hours to degrease the range parts, scrape the tape and moss out, clean the place, etc.

Yes, if the drywall repair drags on and is in my kitchen, that could be a habitability issue. I wonder though if since he asked us if we wanted it repaired, if that would be an issue? On the other hand I'm sure he has a responsibility to do it in a reasonable time frame.

I have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers he walks in, sees it, and decides to hire a pro. I'm going to press him to "sign off" on the damages I listed for him in lieu of a walk through.

I am not great at sweetly implying I know the law and suggesting I could take him to court :loveeyes: in a subtle way. So I've just avoided going there discussion wise. I do think I may have mentioned in the documentation and formal request for window repair that it is likely a code violation (got a sitting the fence response from the local code guy when I called about it....).

Oh my. This is going to be interesting.

[brittone2]

"And we had a newborn!" Don't forget that one..

I'm just wondering about the fact that you're not getting the full value of the contract/money you are paying since one of the bathrooms is unusable. I wish I had advice for you...I thought renting was supposed to be easier than buying.

Sigh. that's what we thought too.

And yes, I don't get the "habitability" stuff being the only way to repair and deduct and or break a lease. I'm not an attorney, but I feel like it is almost akin to false advertising. Paying for one thing, getting something else.


WTG, I owe you a PM!!!!

[infocrazy]

I would look at the fix it if it's under $50 for if you had to hire. If your DH was not handy, replacing the wax ring would theoretically require far more than $50 to fix if you include the labor. Don't look at just the cost of parts, look at the labor too.

I really wouldn't fix anything unless it's changing a light bulb type easy. If you keep on asking him for repairs, maybe he will be HAPPY to have you leave! :)

Good luck!

[ThreeofUs]

How about telling him how concerned you are? You don't have to be super-sweet about it so much as earnest. It's also a great conversation to document.

I think you have issues of
-habitability (the pennies propping up the toilet are a perfect example)
-inability to use spaces you have paid for (the bathroom, garage, etc.)
-non-response (to letters and phone calls)
and
-inappropriate/dangerous conditions for children.

I rented a house like this (once, it only takes once, right?) in the same city. Proving a record was a matter of
-documentation of both problems and a continued pattern of behavior (which you have covered),
-witnesses (great that you've got the realtor, but you need to know businessmen's testimony is given a lot of weight, can you get your DH's boss to come look at the house?), and
-an ability to be a grand style, old fashioned b!tch (in the nicest way possible) about the issues and pinning landlord down on what she was going to do about it.

I had the difficult conversations with my landlord, made sure I told her of the issues and WHY they were issues, and asked her what she was going to do about them, and then documented the heck out of the conversations and follow-up.

I tried to say things as nicely as possible, barely escaped with my skin after some very nasty encounters with my ditz of a landlord, and had to threaten legal action with an attorney's letter, but I did get out of the lease and got my security deposit back.

HTH at all. Take good care of yourself, Beth! I'm so sorry you're going through this.


ETA: Had to channel Katherine Graham (former owner of the DC Post) to do the nicely nasty things. She had a way of using a warm voice and smile while laying down the law or stating unfavorable opinions that I really admired.

[brittone2]

How about telling him how concerned you are? You don't have to be super-sweet about it so much as earnest. It's also a great conversation to document.

I think you have issues of
-habitability (the pennies propping up the toilet are a perfect example)
-inability to use spaces you have paid for (the bathroom, garage, etc.)
-non-response (to letters and phone calls)
and
-inappropriate/dangerous conditions for children.

I rented a house like this (once, it only takes once, right?) in the same city. Proving a record was a matter of
-documentation of both problems and a continued pattern of behavior(which you have covered),
-witnesses (great that you've got the realtor, but you need to know businessmen's testimony is given a lot of weight, can you get your DH's boss to come look at the house?), and
-an ability to be a grand style, old fashioned b!tch (in the nicest way possible) about the issues and pinning landlord down on what she was going to do about it.

I had the difficult conversations with my landlord, made sure I told her of the issues and WHY they were issues, and asked her what she was going to do about them, and then documented the heck out of the conversations and follow-up.

I tried to say things as nicely as possible, but I barely escaped with my skin after some very nasty encounters with my ditz of a landlord.

HTH at all. Take good care of yourself, Beth! I'm so sorry you're going through this.

DH is now clear that he shouldn't fix anything more and should consider labor into the "under 50" concept.

The flip side is, if we have any working toilet, it seems like it is tough to consider it a habitability issue based on the law? Am I crazy, but that's how I read it? So even if we can't use the upstairs hall bath and the downstairs half bath has pennies trying to steady the toilet (oh the ridiculousness of typing such a thing), because we have a working toilet in the master bath, I'm not sure it technically qualifies as habitability? I guess to me it seems like the habitability thing only looks at pretty extreme stuff (no drinking water, no heat, water running down walls, black mold). The window is probably still my best habitability bet.

Yes, I'm glad the realtor knows what the condition of the house has been. That's at least one bonus. I believe he was also there when LL said he would repair the window but I'd have to double check w/ DH on that.

I can't do anything about the LL's stuff in the bedroom and garage (and basement) as that was written into the lease. It wasn't mentioned until DH was ready to sign. And he was tired, and it had been a long search, kwim? Lesson learned (as you said, it only takes once!!!). So yeah, we're unable to use what should be usable space, but then again, it is in the lease and we signed it. Frustrating, but I don't have recourse there.

The funny thing is, even when I sent the (lengthy) list of issues w/ this property to him recently, I even phrased a lot of things like...you should know the drywall damage in the garage is now worsening. It is now 6 feet across by 3 feet (started at maybe half that?). We thought you would want to know, etc. etc. DH even identified the source of the leak in there for him, which should have been a help. He'll just say, oh thank you. You are *so* kind for letting me know! with a lovely little smile. (snake!). DH has routinely phrased things in terms of "you should probably know about this before it becomes a bigger issue" but it is to no avail.

Maybe the drywall will be the last straw and cause a clear habitability or "right to quiet enjoyment" situation? I don't know. Drywall dust everywhere? Maybe he'll call in the "cleaning crew" that he used prior our moving in (which I do not think existed as the place was NOT cleaned other than vacuumed).

[brittone2]

ETA: Had to channel Katherine Graham (former owner of the DC Post) to do the nicely nasty things. She had a way of using a warm voice and smile while laying down the law or stating unfavorable opinions that I really admired.
:ROTFLMAO:

That's a super power I'm coveting today, believe me!!!

[crl]

I think there is a difference between habitability and what your contract calls for. Habitability goes to any rented residence regardless of the terms of the lease. But your lease can set out different, additional requirements. I think it would be very worthwhile to have a consultation with an attorney in your state who practices this kind of law (disclaimer I am NOT licensed to practice in your state and have NEVER practiced housing law). A well written letter on an attorney's letterhead may go a long way to getting out of the place without paying your LL any more money, if that's what you want.

Catherine

[brittone2]

I think there is a difference between habitability and what your contract calls for. Habitability goes to any rented residence regardless of the terms of the lease. But your lease can set out different, additional requirements. I think it would be very worthwhile to have a consultation with an attorney in your state who practices this kind of law (disclaimer I am NOT licensed to practice in your state and have NEVER practiced housing law). A well written letter on an attorney's letterhead may go a long way to getting out of the place without paying your LL any more money, if that's what you want.

Catherine
Thanks!

I reread my lease. Part of it says we accept the property "as is" other than for a repair to moldy drywall that LL did complete prior ot our moving in (according to DH; I never saw it). The other two things listed were that LL would paint and put new carpet in FR. I told him he didn't need to worry about those two issues.

Window is not addressed in the lease, but from what I've read online they can't use "as is" to get out of a habitability issue.

Sigh.

[gatorsmom]

[QUOTE=brittone2;2856751 I do think I may have mentioned in the documentation and formal request for window repair that it is likely a code violation (got a sitting the fence response from the local code guy when I called about it....).

[/QUOTE]

Hey, this is something! You just have to keep mentioning those code violations in an offhanded, "oh by the way" sort of way. The more you say it, the more he'll understand that it's on your mind.

One day, you'll be able to chalk this all up as a learning experience. :D

[DrSally]

Oh, I can think of a loooooong list of stuff I "need" to be doing. Believe me!!! I actually think I might have DH on board with that but thought this thread might sway him LOL ;)

He's just a really, really nice guy and I think he feels a little bad leaving the guy trying to do a difficult repair by himself. My thinking is he's *choosing* to do the repair himself and not pay a professional.

:yeahthat: He could/should hire someone to help or do the repair. IF DH does help him, you should get a comparable reduction in your rent based on current rates for that job. That may incent him to hire someone (plus it will prob get done faster/better than if the landlord did it himself).

[elephantmeg]

get the heck out of dodge!

[JBaxter]

Yup step up the look for a house.

[KpbS]

I would spend the time house hunting after taking a slew of pictures to show the "before" in both/all areas that need significant repairs. :hug: I am sorry you are in this situation. I know moving seems totally daunting but it will be a huge relief to not have to deal with this flake and have your own place. This is the time of year when the market slows down (in some areas) and oftentimes the selection can be pretty good.

Hoping you can get out quickly!

[brittone2]

Yes, we're now getting auto searches from the realtor and will be seeing at least one property this weekend (DH and I attending an open house on our own).

I'm definitely ready to get the rock out of dodge. Just need to play the timing right. Our realtor is confident he can fill this place fast as there are very few comparable rentals in this school district.

The move into what will eventually be our house doesn't daunt me that much, I just don't want to move to another rental in between, kwim? I'll give our 90 days once we have an accepted offer, knowing (hoping?) our realtor can fill this place asap (and realizing we're still liable in the meantime for the rest of the lease, unless we get a tenants' rights attorney who is confident we have a habitability issue allowing us to break the lease.

DH said LL said he'd go through the pics with us. I'm going to press him to just walk through the place with us and SIGN paperwork tomorrow. That's my #1 goal. That way I feel I'm protecting our security deposit to the best of my ability. DH is not helping him.

[crl]

Thanks!

I reread my lease. Part of it says we accept the property "as is" other than for a repair to moldy drywall that LL did complete prior ot our moving in (according to DH; I never saw it). The other two things listed were that LL would paint and put new carpet in FR. I told him he didn't need to worry about those two issues.

Window is not addressed in the lease, but from what I've read online they can't use "as is" to get out of a habitability issue.

Sigh.

Right, but does the lease specify the number of bathrooms? Wouldn't that contract term over ride your jurisdiction's minimum standard of just one functioning bathroom? I really think you should find a lawyer and a new place to live.

Catherine

[brittone2]

Right, but does the lease specify the number of bathrooms? Wouldn't that contract term over ride your jurisdiction's minimum standard of just one functioning bathroom? I really think you should find a lawyer and a new place to live.

Catherine
There's nothing in the lease with number of bedrooms/bathrooms.

Just reread again and noticed the bit about him using the garage and leaving the desk and things in the basement are not technically in the lease (not that I have seen...should ask DH if he remembers it being written in because I don't see it on my emailed copy), although they must have verbally agreed to that prior to the lease signing. He would have a "witness" that we agreed to that I suppose (was signed at the agency that screens for him).

On the flip side the lease also says he was to paint and carpet but we verbally okayed him not doing that (thought I was being nice when this all started, as the paint colors were fine and carpet was not that terrible. I preferred not having to worry about new carpet w/ the kids, kwim? Our realtor was a witness to us verbally okaying him skipping painting/carpet though.

[crl]

There's nothing in the lease with number of bedrooms/bathrooms.

Just reread again and noticed the bit about him using the garage and leaving the desk and things in the basement are not technically in the lease (not that I have seen...should ask DH if he remembers it being written in because I don't see it on my emailed copy), although they must have verbally agreed to that prior to the lease signing. He would have a "witness" that we agreed to that I suppose (was signed at the agency that screens for him).

On the flip side the lease also says he was to paint and carpet but we verbally okayed him not doing that (thought I was being nice when this all started, as the paint colors were fine and carpet was not that terrible. I preferred not having to worry about new carpet w/ the kids, kwim? Our realtor was a witness to us verbally okaying him skipping painting/carpet though.

Still think you need a lawyer. Or should get one if LL tries to hold you to the lease when you want to move out. The lease surely specifies the address, which seems like it would mean the house that is there with however many bathrooms that includes. . . .

Catherine

[DrSally]

.

DH said LL said he'd go through the pics with us. I'm going to press him to just walk through the place with us and SIGN paperwork tomorrow. That's my #1 goal. That way I feel I'm protecting our security deposit to the best of my ability. DH is not helping him.

That sounds smart. Hopefully something great will come on the market soon. Maybe if LL is able to rent sooner than 90 days, you can get out sooner wo/having to break the lease.

[brittone2]

Thanks, Catherine. Lots of good things to think about. THe lease does specify the address.

I've had a banging headache all day and am not looking forward to dealing with him tomorrow. It has been a rough week around here.

My goal for tomorrow is to get him to sign off on the walk through items.

Dh is going to let him know what needs to be fixed on the toilet. We'll see if it gets done. We have the water shut off to that one in the meantime

I will probably not press to get out of the lease on a habitability issue unless he gives us grief about ending the lease early. We'll make an effort to have our realtor find a suitable tenant (and I've read that can be a good idea anyway so that LL isn't sitting around pretending to look for a client. Apparently you can compel them to show that they were actively advertising, etc.?). It would take us a while to find a place (and I don't want to rush as much as I want to get out of here. I want to find the right place), get a contract in place, get packed (again!), etc. I'm guessing close to the 90 days in total anyway. We're on month 5 of the lease right now.

We will probably check in with an attorney once we see how things go tomorrow and whether the toilet repair gets addressed (and if there's any mention of the window situation 5 months into our lease now...).

[brittone2]

That sounds smart. Hopefully something great will come on the market soon. Maybe if LL is able to rent sooner than 90 days, you can get out sooner wo/having to break the lease.

I think that's pretty much the law in our state. IF we break it we are responsible for the balance, but LL has an obligatino actively pursue a new tenant in the meantime. (and we'll have our realtor actively pursuing a tenant as well. ) Mitigate damages I think is the legal term. It would be easier to have LL find some suitable tenants to pressure LL into getting someone in there sooner vs. twiddling his thumbs and trying to wait us out for the balance of the lease. Not sure how smoothly that goes in practice but our realtor has said he's done it quite a bit in the past for clients.

[HannaAddict]

Yes, we're now getting auto searches from the realtor and will be seeing at least one property this weekend (DH and I attending an open house on our own).

DH said LL said he'd go through the pics with us. I'm going to press him to just walk through the place with us and SIGN paperwork tomorrow. That's my #1 goal. That way I feel I'm protecting our security deposit to the best of my ability. DH is not helping him.

I would not obsess about the lack of a walk through. That should work to protect YOU. In most cases (not knowing exactly how the statute is drafted in your state), the lack of a walk through keeps the landlord from claiming damage. He can't prove you did any of it, even if you did damage it, without a walk through and YOU signing off on the condition, he is SOL and can't ding you for it. I had an apartment when I was in my early 20's and when I moved out (I was a wonderful tenant), the old bat of a land lady (Mrs. Kravitz) said she needed to bill me for cleaning the carpets (uhm, they weren't dirty) and thought she could railroad me. I hadn't even gone to law school yet, but she couldn't do anything since she never did the walk through, let alone cleaning carpets "just because" is disallowed unless the tenant expressly agrees to it on signing the lease.

This is not your forever house. For better or for worse, your husband rented it after looking at it and he missed many of these things that are incredibly irritating and more. But I would not focus on the "walk through" or making him fix a bunch of stuff, especially if you might bail out on the lease early. Fix or have fixed the true dangers. Accept a rental is not great for the other junk and look for a nicer rental or home to buy. Then use his lack of fixing things as negotiating fodder to get out of your lease early, that you have no choice, blah, blah, blah. And if you are really convinced these are true safety issues, spend a few hundred dollars consulting with an excellent real estate attorney in your area, one who knows the law and what really to expect in your jurisdiction from the courts to advise you with real legal advice. I think the most likely scenario is that your LL does not have any extra money to pay a contractor to fix drywall, that this house is an anvil around his neck he can't sell and is renting to try and ride it out, that the recession is lasting longer than he counted on and no relief is in sight, that he is simply maximizing his $ from the house (maybe not even covering his mortgage, a second if there is one, etc.) and has no desire to fix a cracked window for his "rental." A pricey sedan is often a lease or he's underwater on that and can't sell it for what he owes, or it was paid off before times got tough. But I don't think hounding him is going to get anything. You've done a great job of documenting everything, more than enough to hold up in small claims court where you will most likely end up in the event of a dispute (or lowest level "real" court). Just do what you can inexpensively to make the house decent as a temporary rental for your family and don't expect the landlord to care a bit. This is not legal advice, but good luck.

(PS Also, look up the house on zillow or your local county online recorder's office and see what he paid and when. Does he own other rental properties? I would be curious.)

[brittone2]

Thanks for the great advice. Glad I checked in before he showed up.

In my state if I want to use repair and deduct or eventually claim a habitability issue I have to submit everything in writing, give a "reasonable" amount of time for the repair, etc. which is why I went that far w/ the window situation. Otherwise, most of the other stuff is definitely more nuisance-related and i can certainly deal until we are out of here. I wanted to have the window situation in my back pocket should we need it (fully cracked through the entire thickness in like 3/4 of a circle type of shape, taking up a large section of the window. If bumped into it would definitely break and fall onto the floor, etc. (and it is my kids' bathroom).

I won't press the walk through in that case. Good to know.

Here's the funny thing. As of a week or two ago, Dh and I actually tossed around the idea of buying this place (only after an excellent inspector was involved) *if* he'd come down low enough to accommodate the big stuff...roof, windows, leak into the garage, etc. that need repaired (all the window seals are blown) . DH ran it by him and he said, "oh, I'm still so attached to the house (he raised his son in this neighborhood). I hadn't really been thinking of selling, but you are such a nice family, blah blah." When we were looking at this place as a rental, it was on the market!! I don't know what his deal is. It was overpriced (he's had it for 16 years, original owner, so I"m guessing he's not underwater assuming he didn't take out some major HELOC on this place. It was priced about 40-50K over what the other houses around this immediate subdivision are selling for, and one of those has a finished basement, the other is a smaller lot but is only 3 years old.
At this point, neither of us would likely buy this place. Its just had such poor maintenance that I wonder what all is lurking that we don't know about. He's supposed to pitch a number to us though today, so we'll see where that goes ;) He bought a building in the city close to his work and lives there now (he's been in the same job for a long time but made the long commute from the burbs while his son was still in school).
I don't get the "I am still so attached to the house" thing. He's said it several times. DH and I have already unloaded our house in NC, etc. and you'd think if he had any interest he'd be wanting to unload this place. Maybe he has a heloc on it. I don't know.
He's a strange character.
Yeah, I'm not going to harp on every little thing that needs fixed today. We'll totally be fine for another few months until we close on another place.
I am seriously hoping he sees the drywall situation and decides it needs to be left to a pro, however.

eta: I know what the house is listed for on zillow. He should theoretically not be underwater (prices have dipped in my area but it hasn't been as bad as many areas) since he's had it 16 years. He paid mid 200s and my guess is it is worth about 330 in the current condition. Would probably be worth more like 360-370 at most if not for the repairs neeed. Not a huge profit in 16 years, which might be what he's holding off on...thinking the market will rebound. He had it listed for 400K when he had the rental listing up at the same time. I don't *think* he owns any other rentals.

[brittone2]

None of this is all that exciting and I doubt anyone cares LOL, but:


Current update:

As soon as we woke up this morning I was asking DH to make a bet w/ me on how late LL would be.

DH said 9:30 (LL was scheduled for 9) and I said 11, or a no show.

LL called at 9:30 saying something came up. He will try to be by later today. He and DH discussed the damage again. LL was thinking it was like a 6inch by 6 inch area of drywall. DH reiterated we're talking more like 6 *feet* by 3 feet, which is what he told him the first time. So maybe, maybe, maybe he'll look at it and decide to get a pro to do it? Maybe (wishful thinking). I think he's supposed to be taking 3 dead trees down in the back (we didn't say a word about that, not sure if it was his idea or he fears they will fall onto the neighbor's property).

There's no way he's going to get any significant amount of work done here today if he even shows, especially later in the afternoon.

We're running the errands we had planned. We'll see if he shows.

[brittone2]

He was supposed to call late in the afternoon about coming then or tomorrow after pushing things off this morning. 7:41 pm, no phone call. Jacka$$.

[WolfpackMom]

He was supposed to call late in the afternoon about coming then or tomorrow after pushing things off this morning. 7:41 pm, no phone call. Jacka$$.

Gosh I'm sorry, I had a feeling he wouldn't show. What a deadbeat! I hope you guys can get out of there soon, geesh.

[brittone2]

Me too! We drove around ruling out a few places tonight. Making progress at least.

Yep, he's the definition of a deadbeat. So very frustrating.

Oh well, I wasn't up for putting on a sweet smile so maybe it is a good thing he wasn't here today. Now we'll see about tomorrow.

Thanks for humoring me by reading ;)

[ThreeofUs]

Sorry your LL didn't show, but thanks for the update!



We drove around ruling out a few places tonight. Making progress at least.

Well, at least you got to have a little fun and make some progress. I used to like noodling around there and seeing what was up for sale.

[brittone2]

Thanks Ivy!

And thanks to everyone for letting me vent. :grouphug:

[brittone2]

Got an email this morning at 9ish asking when would be good for LL to come by. We answered anytime, but we'd be out of the house most of the day (we had plans in place to go apple picking, then to my ILs and then to a late lunch, etc.). Didn't hear back before we left.

We didn't hear anything all day, but we don't have great cell reception at the ILs. LL also tends to email from his crackberry and we don't have email through our phones, which is annoying as he seems to use a mix of contacting us via email, cell, etc. during the day and we don't have access to it all non stop.

Walked in. Drywall is up. It is definitely going to bulge at the seams. Spackling done.

One section is currently being "propped" (and oh yes, the term propped needs to be in quotes here) by a 1.5 inch wide, 8 foot long, 1/4 inch thick slat of wood DH had in the garage for a project. This slat "supporting" the drywall is bowed out and blocked off by 3 kids chairs to keep us from running into it because it is providing oh-so-much support :rolleye0014: to the drywall.

He used our microfiber mop to "hold up" (oh yes, quotes again!) another section. The mop handle is on a piece of drywall about 6 inches long standing up vertically on the kitchen island. Handle is placed vertically on that, microfiber mop head touching the ceiling.

I can't wait to see how this goes. At least he's trying??? :ROTFLMAO: I'm wondering when he'll get around to the sanding, painting and finish work, and what kind of mess he''ll leave behind if he ever gets around to any of the above.

It was amusing enough we took photos and sent a pic to my parents over our phone so my dad could :hysterical:

Oh, and DH went upstairs then to see if there were any emails (nothing was on his phone). Emails we missed said "I'm outside your house". (we had told him to let himself in the earlier email). The one from the end of the day said "thanks." That's it. I'm guessing he was *thrilled* Dh wasn't around, LOL.

Here's to some househunting in the next few days. DH's former boss has a neighbor 2 doors down putting her house up soon and we're hoping that might be an option (already know the neighborhood, etc.)

:54:

[KrisM]

Pictures, please!

[brittone2]

I never post pics here but I might have to ;)

[JBaxter]

Beth... I was going to say ... this thread is worthless with out pictures... Come on girlfriend post a way

[brittone2]

DS2 is latched and asleep next to me. I'll get the camera in a bit. You can see how handy my LL is.

He left a nice spackled handprint on one of my knives in my knife block. Not sure if he used it and put it back gross, or thought he washed it and the spackle was still on there :) Yum. Wait til he sands. If he bothers.

[ha98ed14]

I never post pics here but I might have to ;)

Yeah, if ever there was an occasion, THIS is it!

I totally feel for you! We had the most craptastic of landlords, but ours was a corporation!!! SO there shouldn't have been any issues because they were professional property managers. The memories of the whole thing still make me anxious!

Good luck! I hope you find *your* house ASAP!

[JustMe]

Good luck with house hunting!

[wellyes]

I have nothing but deep admiration for your ability to find amusement in this situation. He's such a pain and is making a mess of your home. Good for you for doing your best to laugh!

[brittone2]

Excuse the mess - DH and kids were making applesauce and apple crisp. :D

I stand corrected. I thought the LL put the kids' chairs around the crazy slat supposedly supporting the drywall. My 6 yo DS1 had the foresight to do that so no one would run into them. 40+ yo LL did not ;)

You asked so here is a pic... Please note mop is on a small piece of drywall leaning against a toolbox.

[JBaxter]

Excuse the mess - DH and kids were making applesauce and apple crisp. :D

I stand corrected. I thought the LL put the kids' chairs around the crazy slat supposedly supporting the drywall. My 6 yo DS1 had the foresight to do that so no one would run into them. 40+ yo LL did not ;)

You asked so here is a pic... Please note mop is on a small piece of drywall leaning against a toolbox.

Im speachless... THATS not safe

[egoldber]

Wow. Really? Wow.

[brittone2]

I really just scratch my head and wonder what do you even say at this point?

Just keep quiet, take photos, and hope it will be valuable in breaking the lease eventually?

[KrisM]

Wow. Why does someone think that's right?

[vludmilla]

I really just scratch my head and wonder what do you even say at this point?

Just keep quiet, take photos, and hope it will be valuable in breaking the lease eventually?

Exactly. I would take lots of pictures and keep a log of all the cr@p he puts you through and use it to get out the lease without penalty. So sorry you have to deal with this.

[alexsmommy]

That pic alone should get you out of your lease. It should even if you didn't have kids, but with children running around? C'mon.

I'm cheap. I openly admit it. But there is a time and place to just hire people with the know-how and proper equipment. I had about a one day fantasy of saving money and drywalling our basement ourselves (after someone else had studded). Then I woke up and called someone.

[brittone2]

That pic alone should get you out of your lease. It should even if you didn't have kids, but with children running around? C'mon.

I'm cheap. I openly admit it. But there is a time and place to just hire people with the know-how and proper equipment. I had about a one day fantasy of saving money and drywalling our basement ourselves (after someone else had studded). Then I woke up and called someone.
Exactly. I kept telling DH he should not have *any* guilt for not sticking around. LL *chose* to do it himself.

DH is quite handy and even he knows drywall, especially on a ceiling, is generally best done by a pro.

The irony is that the LL "is still so attached to his house" etc. etc. And this is how you take care of it??

[gatorsmom]

The irony is that the LL "is still so attached to his house" etc. etc. And this is how you take care of it??

The reason he is so attached is because it's like his own, weird work of art. No one could really appreciate the work he's done in there but him. :ROTFLMAO:

You have to admit, it is pretty impressive how he's got the swiffer balancing perfectly on the drywall piece pushing the ceiling up.

On a more serious note, I"m so sorry you have to deal with a slumlord like that. I think your tactic of taking documenting and photographing everything with the hope that it'll get you out of your lease is the best way to go. Thanks for the photo and the update today. Keep us posted!

[infomama]

What a hack. That is awful.

[trentsmom]

Amazing. How long does he expect you to leave the wood and the swiffer in place?

[ChunkyNicksChunkyMom]

This is what I live with on a day to day basis. My sympathies!

[brittone2]

I told DH to email him and say
"Just checking in to see how long you suggest we leave the supports you constructed in place?" and let him read whatever tone into that he would like.

DH deemed they are doing absolutely freaking nothing (not that it takes a structural engineer to figure that out...) and has removed them.

He also left some wet drywall in place that was not sagging but has water damage. I'm sure he'll paint over the whole shebang with (non matching) paint. He has a lovely similar repair (on a smaller scale) in the family room. Different shade of white :ROTFLMAO:

[brittone2]

This is what I live with on a day to day basis. My sympathies!

ah, I think your duct tape loving hubby could have given the LL some tips :D

[kristenk]

Well, at least you know who to call if you ever need help balancing a group of random objects! :)

The repair actually looks better than I thought it would. I have no doubt that it looks better in photographs than in real life.

I'm still :47: about the handprint on the knife. Why in the world would he need to use one of your kitchen knives? I don't suppose it's the serrated knife and he used it to cut the drywall? (um, yikes!)

[brittone2]

Well, at least you know who to call if you ever need help balancing a group of random objects! :)

The repair actually looks better than I thought it would. I have no doubt that it looks better in photographs than in real life.

I'm still :47: about the handprint on the knife. Why in the world would he need to use one of your kitchen knives? I don't suppose it's the serrated knife and he used it to cut the drywall? (um, yikes!)
Steak knife.

I pretty much don't even want to know.

White handprint still on it in the block. Blech.

Yeah, the "repair" doesn't look as bad as it could have. It looks worse IRL, believe me. It definitely has a good bit of bulging at a few seams which means he didn't really fix anything cosmetically because it was bulging at the original seams from the water. Now the seams where he repaired it are bulging, so it was kind of a trade off of one problem for another. The bulges are just now in a different place, kwim?

The other thing is I would love to know when the rest of the work will be completed. I suspect not for quite a while, based on how tough it has been to get him to show his face around here for the last 5 months. It was the only time he's been here since we took possession (that dreadful day where I encountered moss and tape galore).

[brittone2]

Well, at least you know who to call if you ever need help balancing a group of random objects! :)



Yes, he's quite talented. He gorilla glues (everything) with gusto, he used a mop to apply waterproofing to his deck (splashing the stain all over the siding in the process...the whole bottom 12-18 inches now have splattered stain/waterproofing on them...brown splatters that are very obvious). Apparently that is better than having a non stained deck. And now we know he can precariously balance strange and unrelated objects like mops and scraps of drywall.

THanks for keeping me laughing guys...because otherwise I don't know what I would do. It has hit the point of just plain bizarre, to be honest.

I feel for the neighbors.

[DietCokeLover]

I'm sad you took the huge board down. It could have made a great stripper pole right there in the middle of the kitchen! :ROTFLMAO:

[brittone2]

I'm sad you took the huge board down. It could have made a great stripper pole right there in the middle of the kitchen! :ROTFLMAO:

Well, if there can be a bright side to having an 8 ft pole in the middle of your kitchen, that's probably a good way to look at it :ROTFLMAO:

Might have resulted in some nasty splinters though :wink2:

[ThreeofUs]

Bwahahaahahahahaha

OMG I almost aspirated my beer!

Great picture!

ETA:

He left a nice spackled handprint on one of my knives in my knife block. Not sure if he used it and put it back gross, or thought he washed it and the spackle was still on there

EEWWWW. So he used one of your knives to cut the drywall out of the ceiling and then - I don't know why this surprises me but it does - didn't bother to wash it off?!?!!

Ohhhh, man, that's LL with some REAL boundary problems.

[brittone2]

Bwahahaahahahahaha

OMG I almost aspirated my beer!

Great picture!

ETA:


EEWWWW. So he used one of your knives to cut the drywall out of the ceiling and then - I don't know why this surprises me but it does - didn't bother to wash it off?!?!!

Ohhhh, man, that's LL with some REAL boundary problems.


I KNOW! I feel violated. Ewwwww is right :irked:

[ThreeofUs]

Wait wait wait. That's recessed lighting up there. I'm afraid to even ask but what kind of wiring does it have? I'm assuming it got allll wet in the flood....

Um, er, you've probably already thought of this, but uhmmmm maybe they need to dry out before use?

[brittone2]

DH thinks they are okay. No idea if they really are. We've been using them (I was scared the first time I turned them on!) :bag

[maestramommy]

YIKES. I would be afraid to walk under that ceiling. Hope you find another house very soon. :hug:

[ThreeofUs]

DH thinks they are okay. No idea if they really are. We've been using them (I was scared the first time I turned them on!) :bag


I'd have been scared, too! Who knows what it looks like up there!!

Good luck on the house hunting. Seriously. This place sounds dangerous.

[WatchingThemGrow]

Truly nuts. DH was speechless. That NEVER happens.

[Momof3Labs]

I didn't read the entire thread, but that photo is hilarious!! It also looks almost exactly (well, minus the wood and mop) like the kitchen in the house we sold 5 years ago - the layout and size are identical!

[brittone2]

Truly nuts. DH was speechless. That NEVER happens.

I think this is my LL's superpower. Rendering people speechless. It has happened to me more times than I care to count now. :dizzy:

I am hoping to avoid being rendered speechless for the balance of my time here, but we haven't even gotten through sanding/finishing and painting on this project :ROTFLMAO:

[brittone2]

I didn't read the entire thread, but that photo is hilarious!! It also looks almost exactly (well, minus the wood and mop) like the kitchen in the house we sold 5 years ago - the layout and size are identical!

You didn't have the cool 8ftx1.5inchx1/4 inch bowed out wooden stripper pole in your kitchen, Lori :loveeyes: ?? Didn't opt for that feature? You were missing out!

I know you probably lament that your previous abode was lacking the fine structural integrity of our gem :wink2:

It is such a shame because it truly could be a great house.

I think I discovered another issue tonight. Roof needs done, right? Shingles missing, etc. Definitely needs done (LL has acknowledged this and said if we wanted to buy he'd look at filing a homeowners claim to get the roof covered as his neighbor once told him he could do this because of some wind storm a good while back. Ahem. I'm sure *thats* on the up and up...).

When DH saw this place, there was an area of mildew or mold in the hall bath upstairs. Smallish area. He asked to have the drywall there replaced prior to us moving in (not yet connecting all the dots on this situation obviously, as we didn't exactly get an inspection on a rental). That was done. I didn't really know where this was located until recently when I noticed the repair overhead (thankfully a small one so the handiwork was easier to disguise this time LOL). That wall has some drip marks at the very bottom of it. Paint is very matte and so the drips show. I'm now guessing roof is leaking, mold developed, etc. Has not dripped visibly while we've been here but I'm guessing that's going on. There are similar drip marks on the paint below the window with the (still not yet repaired) crack. I documented those in my letter to him w/ all the issues w/ the property, stating the crack was not water tight if there are drip marks below on the wall. I've never seen it actually drip but clearly it does.

I would love to see what an inspector could find here, but alas, we won't be buying this lovely piece of work :shake:

[DebbieJ]

That pic alone should get you out of your lease. It should even if you didn't have kids, but with children running around? C'mon.

I'm cheap. I openly admit it. But there is a time and place to just hire people with the know-how and proper equipment. I had about a one day fantasy of saving money and drywalling our basement ourselves (after someone else had studded). Then I woke up and called someone.

Even my BIL, who is a carpenter by trade, pays for drywall to be done.

[bubbaray]

Yup, my DH is VERY handy and does everything from plumbing, electrical, framing, tiling, hardwood installation -- anything and everything you can possibly do around a house EXCEPT drywall. He will put up the drywall, but hires a company to come in and tape and mud.

BTW, it is way less dusty if a pro does the taping and mudding. They hardly sand at all. Your LL -- ouwie, that is gonna be a LOT of dust. Ugh.

[brittone2]

Yup, my DH is VERY handy and does everything from plumbing, electrical, framing, tiling, hardwood installation -- anything and everything you can possibly do around a house EXCEPT drywall. He will put up the drywall, but hires a company to come in and tape and mud.

BTW, it is way less dusty if a pro does the taping and mudding. They hardly sand at all. Your LL -- ouwie, that is gonna be a LOT of dust. Ugh.

Yeah. And I'm *sure* he'll go out of his way to clean up.

That is, if he ever gets his a$$ around to completing the rest of the job.

Sucks. sucks. sucks.

[mommy111]

That is a beautiful kitchen. I guess the LL did that to the ceiling so that you'd be too scared to walk under it and use the kitchen :ROTFLMAO:
I'd be eatin' takeout to keep out of that kitchen and looking for a new place. To do this in a house with kids????? The guy is not just cheap and stupid, he's an.....well, words fail me

[Pear]

I think I would be hoping he doesn't come back to sand and paint. Better to live with an ugly patch than deal with the mess he will make.

[brittone2]

I think I would be hoping he doesn't come back to sand and paint. Better to live with an ugly patch than deal with the mess he will make.
Yeah, no way would he be able to do it without drywall dust covering every single surface we have in the kitchen. It would be all over the counters, range top, floating everywhere.

And herein lies my problem (again). Not sure someone will want to rent it seeing the giant monstrosity of a yucky patch job, but I don't really want DH involved, kwim?

I *need* someone to take over this lease in a few months.

[JTsMom]

Why?!? Just... why?!? You don't think he Gorilla Glued that piece in place do you? I don't think I'd stand under it without a hard hat. You would have been better off with my 400 nail pops drywall crew. Sending perfect house finding vibes.

[brittone2]

DH forwarded me some email exchange between the LL and him today. He asked the LL when the job would get finished (in a very nice way, but trying to pin him down to a date). LL said the damage was "worse than he realized" and he's waiting for spackle to dry. He asked DH if they make "sirens" (amusing choice of words...) that go off when there is a water leak. DH said he's pretty sure that they only have things like that for sump pumps, etc. generally.

I told DH to ask him if they sell a siren that goes off when your frikkin frakin genius landlord decides to support drywall with 8 foot long sections of 1/4 inch thick wood and mops?

Well, I guess I need to patent one.

a-hole.

:irked:

(sorry, that was probably one for the bitching post, eh?)

[WatchingThemGrow]

I'm sorry for all the un-fun aspects of this, but it will truly be one of those that we all look back and say, "Wow, at least that LL isn't like brittone2's LL." That picture was the best ever. Of course, if it is your own kitchen, I understand it is soooo frustrating. :hug:

[brittone2]

Ah, we've managed to proceed into a new mode of thinking this is all so bizarre that we just have to laugh. The alternative isn't so great.

On the flip side, I've always read how much the law favors tenants (I have friends who have dabbled in being LLs). And I get that (and would NOT want to be a LL because I know it is really, really a tough situation!). But as a tenant, seriously, I had NO idea how bad things need to get before you can withhold rent under "repair and deduct" or break a lease for habitability. I mean, the stuff is so extreme.

I lived in some terrible places in college. Really bad. Spent one year living on an all glass sun porch as my bedroom, with curtains up. It was cold LOL! I could see my breath when I woke up. Our back deck was falling off (we were smart enough to not use it). You get the picture. It was a short term thing (we were renting that place for a semester before starting our internships) and it was cheap. Slightly different expectations at the time, right or wrong.

DH and I lived in an apt for a year when we were first married. It was in a complex, had on site maintenance, etc. It was fine, kwim?

I seem to be in limbo land where I'm paying a nice sum of money for rent but can't obligate this guy to fix anything unless we're taking no heat, no hot water, massive leaks, etc. A lot of info indicates even code violations like a crack in a window probably aren't enough to do any more than repair and deduct at best.

I am sure there are some royal PITB tenants out there, but as a current tenant, I don't feel very protected.

Positive thoughts that we find a place (although I am not in love with anything on the market right now anyway...) soon and will find someone to take over on this place. Poor souls.

[xmasbabycomin]

My parents are LLs, & I've heard some horror stories about tenants (deducting gardening glove cost from rent, complaining about cabinet knob style, even cooking meth). My parents are the type to bring cookies to their tenants at the holidays, and they've still been sued 2x.They've felt the court has been fair (not necessarily pro-LL, just fair). Hopefully it won't come to that, but I know they were relieved that crazy pp don't always get their way. Be sure to give him notice ASAP so he can start looking for a new tenant.

[brittone2]

My parents are LLs, & I've heard some horror stories about tenants (deducting gardening glove cost from rent, complaining about cabinet knob style, even cooking meth). My parents are the type to bring cookies to their tenants at the holidays, and they've still been sued 2x.They've felt the court has been fair (not necessarily pro-LL, just fair). Hopefully it won't come to that, but I know they were relieved that crazy pp don't always get their way. Be sure to give him notice ASAP so he can start looking for a new tenant.
I feel for LLs, I really, really do. I know there are some shady folks out there who are irresponsible, neglectful, etc. My new neighbor here told me some of the previous tenants used to let the grass grow knee height or beyond and the neighbors banded together and contacted the township to track down the LL. (we take care of our own mowing).
Our realtor has offered to facilitate filling the place w/ new tenants. We just need to find our place first.

I will definitely give him notice, but not until we know where we are going. It may take a month or two to fill our lease, and I accept we'll be on the hook for the rent in the interim unless we decide to pursue it as a habitability issue.

I found a few other spots today that I think were painted over and have leaks going on from the roof down through the attic space (unfloored so we've never been up there) and into the 2nd floor rooms. We haven't had much rain in a loooong time so we'll see during the next storm if I can figure out more.

eta: I had one LL in college at an apt I stayed in for two years who was fantastic. Reminded me of George Costanza's dad on Seinfeld. Great guy, we were great tenants, easy peasy. The place wasn't perfect but he always made sure we were getting enough heat (he'd check with us) and things like that, kwim? He treated us IMO like a guy that age would want his own college-aged granddaughter to be treated. He also didn't put up with bad tenants, but he loved us :) I'm not out to screw this guy over, but he's certainly crossing into slumlord territory IMO.

[kochh2]

Dang, B... COming in late to this side of the party, but it's way worse to SEE the photos then just hear about it. You should EMAIL him the picture with a caption... i'm trying to think of the snarkiest caption... maybe these gals have an idea... let's start a new thread to come up with that!!!! LOL!!!! My vote is for "Oh MY gosh, i just came home, it looks like my house was vandalized!!! this is horrible!!!"