Non-Believer DH & Sending DCs to Parochial Schools

[StantonHyde]

I need some help here. DH was raised as a non-believer--just given no religious upbringing. I was raised Episcopalian and went to church, got confirmed, then "converted" to being Quaker. We were married under the care of the meeting here.

Fast forward to DS who is dyslexic and needs a reading program that works for him. This is the third school in 3 years and it is working!!!! It is also a Catholic school. No biggy for me--I view it as an opportunity to discuss points on which I may agree/disagree when the time comes and its appropriate. DD is also going to a Catholic school because she is a total songbird/music lover and this school has an amazing music program. Both schools have excellent academics, a wonderful parent community, and a large number of non-Catholics. Add to it, that the Catholic Church in Utah is very much in vein of social justice, charity, community service etc.

DH has issues with the Catholic Church, especially because his best friend was molested and it turned out to be a huge coverup in that entire diocese etc etc. I say you can find problems with ANY organized religion. DH is already telling DCs that there will be times when our family does not think the same thing as the school. He says he is afraid they will be brainwashed, etc etc. sigh. My faith is a comfort to me. I don't really go to church anymore but I am spiritual. I loved going as a child, I liked the social aspect, I loved having a place to belong, and I didn't turn out a brainwashed zombie.

I just don't have the energy to facilitate this conversation with DH. The kids need to stay where they are for school. I am about to suggest that he process these feelings with people he knows and respects who also send their kids to these schools. What can I say to a non-believer that will let him know I hear what he is saying and I understand it, but I just don't agree and I honestly don't support it????? Or, on the flip side, please non-believers--hit me with your best shot ;) and help me further understand DH's side.

I am at a loss on how to smooth this over or how to help DH find the resources he needs to be comfortable.......

PS. I do NOT NOT NOT want this to be a debate about the Catholic Church--this would probably be an issue with ANY religion so please don't go there!

[fivi2]

Sorry, I am on your dh's side. I was raised without religion and there is absolutely no way I would send my children to a religious school. I would home school before I did that. (eta: no offense to homeschoolers, I am just not cut out to be one)

However, I understand your points. It seems like this is a good fit for your kids, and you don't mind the religious aspect. This is just like any other marital difference - you both have valid opinions and they both deserve equal consideration There is no "right" or "wrong" answer. How do the two of you resolve your differences in areas where there really isn't a good compromise?

Given my views, I personally feel that dh's argument has more weight. Your children can explore religion in the future (along with you) if that is what *they* choose when they are able. But you can't undo any "brainwashing" they are exposed to at these schools. (I don't mean brainwashing to start an argument, just using it as shorthand as you did above) Teachers and school communities carry a lot of weight for kids and if there is a message that one of you isn't comfortable with being imparted by that school - I do see that as a big deal. Try to imagine if the school was organized around something you were truly not comfortable with...

[maestramommy]

I don't know if this would make your Dh feel any better, BUT a few days ago I was listening to a report on NPR by a correspondent to the Vatican about the whole sex abuse mess and how it's affected the church. I can't remember the context but one of the questions asked was whether the number of sex abuse cases were any higher in the catholic church than in other church denominations. The answer was that they are not any higher than in other churches, nor in any other bodies (schools, for example) where there are large numbers of children (chilling, I know). So I don't know if your Dh would feel that your children are just as safe in a parochial school as in any other school.

What you might want to find out is how much religious instruction is given as part of the school curriculum. Then ask your Dh whether he is comfortable with that amount. I wouldn't weigh the program for your DS too lightly. To me that is a big deal. It seems to be so hard to find special services that really work for a child. I would just take that into consideration above other aspects.

Also, I think it's perfectly fine for a parent to tell their children we don't think about things the same way as school once in a while. As long as it is done in a respectful manner, your children shouldn't be confused. All children grow up knowing not everyone thinks the same way about everything. And as a last thought, if you want to impart some teaching of faith to your children, you and your Dh need to have a conversation on that as well, regardless of whether or not you decide to keep your kids at the school.

[pinkmomagain]

I am a non-believer with a jewish background and would, under normal circumstances, have a hard time sending my child to catholic school (even with dh being raised catholic). However, if my child had special needs that a catholic school could for some reason suit my child best, I could possibly see sending my child there. I think I would have a frank, continuous dialogue with my child, if that were the case, that "while the school/teachers/students/families are all wonderful, dad & I don't believe in the religious aspects of it. However, you, dc, during religious classes, may want to look at it as a great opportunity to learn about catholicism because understanding it can only be helpful in the future." And when they bring up things the see in mass or class, say things like "isn't it interesting how catholics do such and such, or believe such and such."

Another thing to keep in mind, is perhaps as a compromise, as your ds gets stronger in reading, maybe somewhere down the road you would be willing to entertain another school (ie. maybe starting in middle school).

[wellyes]

I have a unique perspective on this in that my mom was an atheist and my dad is Catholic (devout, part of the lay ministry of his parish). I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church. I am now a non-believer.

If I were going to send my child to any religious school, Catholic schools would be among my first choice. In my experience:
- There is a strong academic tradition and respect for literacy, history and language in Catholicism
- It's also not evangelically focused
- It embraces ecumenism and every Catholic church I've been to has spoken of respect for non-Christian faiths
- The cultural literacy that one can get from having some background in the Catholic tradition is very useful. The Lenten calendar, the saints, the sins, the sacraments, etc. Very helpful context in later life (and for doing crossword puzzles!)

[Green_Tea]

I have a unique perspective on this in that my mom was an atheist and my dad is Catholic (devout, part of the lay ministry of his parish). I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church. I am now a non-believer.

If I were going to send my child to any religious school, Catholic schools would be among my first choice. In my experience:
- There is a strong academic tradition and respect for literacy, history and language in Catholicism
- It's also not evangelically focused
- It embraces ecumenism and every Catholic church I've been to has spoken of respect for non-Christian faiths
- The cultural literacy that one can get from having some background in the Catholic tradition is very useful. The Lenten calendar, the saints, the sins, the sacraments, etc. Very helpful context in later life (and for doing crossword puzzles!)

I completely agree.

[AnnieW625]

Education wise I agree with everything that Wellyes has posted. Catholic schools seem to value other things than just religion education wise.

I was raised Catholic and am still practicing. Growing up I was an alter girl (my brother was an alter boy) in the late 80s/early 90s and thank god we never ran into any abuse from the priests. I do however give no money to our diocese (Los Angeles--Roger Mahoney is the bishop) because of their cover up of the abuse scandals so I totally understand why your husband feels the way he does. It's just sickening.

If I was a non believer I think I would look at the education at the school and the quality of the teachers first. I think that what your husband is doing as far as preparing your children and letting them know that there are differences at home and school is a good way to start. I would also look at buying a childrens bible that your children can have access to at home. It might be helpful if the kids have questions about religion that they are being taught in school, and in the same way it might help your husband out too. I never had religion in school (just catechism) as I went to public school so I can't tell you exactly how much is being learned in class vs. after school classes. For the most part though we were taught about Adam & Eve, the miracles Jesus performed (including the wedding at Cana), the birth of Christ, the death of Christ, Noah's Ark, and the apostles/disciples.

I've never felt I was brainwashed and that kind of bothers me that non believers and believers alike think that Catholics are brainwashed, but we'll just leave leave that topic in the parking lot for now.

[California]

I also attended Christian schools and amongst my former classmates today there is as much spiritual diversity as there is amongst my friends who attended public school.

It is wonderful as an adult to have such a rich academic and cultural background. My teachers taught me about world religions, which was at that time part of the curriculum at Catholic school. We could discuss religion-- do you do that in public school? I'm not sure if that's covered at all, but as an adult now interacting with people from all different faiths I really appreciate that that was part of my education.

I look at it this way-- what is the easiest part for you to do at home?

They can get the music and reading program at school, and get honest, frank discussions on religion at home to awaken their curiousity and personal journey towards discovering their own beliefs. Its not really a bad thing to have religion "on the table," so to speak, as a topic brought up at school and at home if you and your DH are honest and comfortable with your own viewpoints and share them (in an age appropriate way) with your kids as they grow.

On the other hand, they could be in a public school program without the music and reading support. Would they get the same excellent academics? If they didn't, could you provide outside of school extra academic support, reading support and music opportunities to equal all those things to what they are receiving now? That seems like it would be pretty challening to me.

[Tanya]

My oldest went to a Christian preschool and my youngest is there now. Dh was raised Catholic. I was somewhat raised Methodist, but am a non-believer. I just love the teacher my daughter has and the amount of religion they get really isn't too bad for me.

My opinion is that it's good for my kids to get a little bit of religion and to learn what others believe. I think it's nice to have respect for others and their beliefs without shoving those beliefs down someone's throat. It is hard to hear about "Cheeses" and God when my little talker gets on a roll though.

[mommylamb]

I am a non-believer with a jewish background and would, under normal circumstances, have a hard time sending my child to catholic school (even with dh being raised catholic). However, if my child had special needs that a catholic school could for some reason suit my child best, I could possibly see sending my child there. I think I would have a frank, continuous dialogue with my child, if that were the case, that "while the school/teachers/students/families are all wonderful, dad & I don't believe in the religious aspects of it. However, you, dc, during religious classes, may want to look at it as a great opportunity to learn about catholicism because understanding it can only be helpful in the future." And when they bring up things the see in mass or class, say things like "isn't it interesting how catholics do such and such, or believe such and such."

Another thing to keep in mind, is perhaps as a compromise, as your ds gets stronger in reading, maybe somewhere down the road you would be willing to entertain another school (ie. maybe starting in middle school).

:yeahthat: I'm also a non-believer (agnostic, atheist, not really sure what, but definitely not one for organized religion or a higher power). I would search high and low for a secular school that could meet my child's needs and would be extremely uncomfortable with putting my child in a religiously affiliated school. But, if I really had no other options that met his needs, I would do it.

I'm also dyslexic and so I really get how important it is to get the right environment and services.

And, I agree with Wellyes, in that if I HAD to send my child to a Christian school, I would prefer Catholic to evangelical protestantism.

[MissyAg94]

I think your DH had the opportunity to object before you enrolled your children in those schools and feel it would be unfair to remove them from a great education environment now. So unless something has happened (or happens in the future) that has really offended him, I think his chance to object has passed.

[cvanbrunt]

What can I say to a non-believer that will let him know I hear what he is saying and I understand it, but I just don't agree and I honestly don't support it?????

What could he say to you to let you know he hears and understands you but just doesn't agree with or support it? He feels as strongly as you do.

As an atheist, I understand where he's coming from and I wouldn't send my kid to a religiously affiliated school either. I'm guessing the harder you push, the more he'll push back. I'd start searching for another school that meets DC needs and doesn't conflict with either of your belief systems.

[Lolabee]

Education wise I agree with everything that Wellyes has posted. Catholic schools seem to value other things than just religion education wise.

I was raised Catholic and am still practicing. Growing up I was an alter girl (my brother was an alter boy) in the late 80s/early 90s and thank god we never ran into any abuse from the priests. I do however give no money to our diocese (Los Angeles--Roger Mahoney is the bishop) because of their cover up of the abuse scandals so I totally understand why your husband feels the way he does. It's just sickening.

If I was a non believer I think I would look at the education at the school and the quality of the teachers first. I think that what your husband is doing as far as preparing your children and letting them know that there are differences at home and school is a good way to start. I would also look at buying a childrens bible that your children can have access to at home. It might be helpful if the kids have questions about religion that they are being taught in school, and in the same way it might help your husband out too. I never had religion in school (just catechism) as I went to public school so I can't tell you exactly how much is being learned in class vs. after school classes. For the most part though we were taught about Adam & Eve, the miracles Jesus performed (including the wedding at Cana), the birth of Christ, the death of Christ, Noah's Ark, and the apostles/disciples.

(Just by way of explanation, I was also raised Catholic, attended Catholic elementary school and a Catholic college. I am currently estranged from the Church and am pretty much an agnostic at this point.) I agree that the Catholic schools are often (but not always) strong in their mission to provide a solid educational foundation for their students. Some orders are more devoted to this than others, such as the Jesuits and the Holy Cross order. YMMV.


I've never felt I was brainwashed and that kind of bothers me that non believers and believers alike think that Catholics are brainwashed, but we'll just leave leave that topic in the parking lot for now.

Well, I actually do feel like I was brainwashed by my early years in Catholic schools. I understand full well that not everyone else raised in the Church agrees with this point of view, it all depends on one's individual experiences I suppose. There is often little room provided in the Church to question doctrinal issues, and the Vatican has only become more intent on clamping down on dissenting viewpoints since Benedict became Pope. I can certainly understand your husband's concerns, quite frankly it's the reason that my husband and I have decided to not send our kids to the local parochial school. I don't want to have to worry about them unlearning that their uncle is going to hell for having a life partner who happens to be a man, or why I and my husband must confess their conception through IVF as a sin prior to taking communion again (something we of course have no intention of doing) among other things.

I don't mean to pick a fight with other Catholics here, just stating my opinion that I understand why your husband feels the way he does. I would suggest that you get a good handle on how extensive the religious education is at your children's school and deciding where you and your husband stand on that. Is there any chance you can have your kids excused from catechism and/or mass and would that make your husband feel more comfortable with their schooling?

[hwin708]

DH is already telling DCs that there will be times when our family does not think the same thing as the school. He says he is afraid they will be brainwashed, etc etc. sigh. My faith is a comfort to me. I don't really go to church anymore but I am spiritual. I loved going as a child, I liked the social aspect, I loved having a place to belong, and I didn't turn out a brainwashed zombie. It seems like the issue here for you is not simply the school as it is that you specifically WANT your children to be raised within a religion and be regular practitioners. Which seems like something you two should have - and very may well have - discussed before even having kids. What was the plan then? To raise them Episcopalian or with no religion at all?

I can't really tell from your post exactly what your DH is doing to make all of this difficult. He may not be thrilled with the idea of Catholic school, but if the kids are there, clearly he accepted it. Time will likely lessen his bitterness over the situation. But yes - if he has concerns about the Catholic religion, then he likely will continue to teach your children not to simply accept what they are being told in school. Which, as a Catholic, is something I personally agree with and do myself. I don't agree with all aspects of my faith (the church's stance on homosexuality, for one), and I certainly don't want my children raised believing them. While I agree with you that Catholic school will likely not "brainwash" your kids, there is certainly nothing wrong with a parent regularly stating the morals THEY want their children to be raised with, instead of simply blithely ignoring whatever conflicting advice their children may be getting at school.

[Carrots]

I have a unique perspective on this in that my mom was an atheist and my dad is Catholic (devout, part of the lay ministry of his parish). I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church. I am now a non-believer.

If I were going to send my child to any religious school, Catholic schools would be among my first choice. In my experience:
- There is a strong academic tradition and respect for literacy, history and language in Catholicism
- It's also not evangelically focused
- It embraces ecumenism and every Catholic church I've been to has spoken of respect for non-Christian faiths
- The cultural literacy that one can get from having some background in the Catholic tradition is very useful. The Lenten calendar, the saints, the sins, the sacraments, etc. Very helpful context in later life (and for doing crossword puzzles!)

I also completely agree.

[carolinamama]

I am not a non-believer so I am not coming from the same place as many who have responded - although I have had periods of my life where I haven't believed and I am still not sure of my faith. Maybe I am a questioner who wants to believer? I would also classify my parents this way too. We were raised as lax Episcopalians. I say all that because I want you to know from where I am coming.

Growing up, we moved to a community where the schools were no where near the calliber where we lived before. My parents had to scramble and pull us out of public and we ended up in a Catholic school because it was the best fit. It was a wonderful school that had many non-Catholics. I never felt brainwashed and my parents did take it as a chance to explain differences in beliefs. We were expected to respect the Catholic religion and beliefs. I remember having a period where I was swayed more and wanted to "be Catholic" since alot of my friends were. My parents never openly discouraged me but they also NEVER encouraged it either. In the end, I flourished from the academics and attention there and am not a Catholic, nor will I ever be.

If this school is the best fit for your DS, I wouldn't let the religious affiliation stop you - as long as it isn't the "in your face, you are going to hell if you don't believe this crap type". Your home influence on him will be strong.

[jess_g]

No great advice but we are in the same boat here. My dd just started a Catholic high school and we are defenitly not Catholic (we even put that on her application in case it mattered). The school has a lot of structure and the students and staff are open and friendly and the academics are tops. It was defently a great school to send my dd to and had a lot of things the public high school just did not have. We are stuggling with the religious part right now, but I think she will do fine at the school. My dh is a total non believer but even he wanted her to goto this school once he founnd out about it.

J.

[StantonHyde]

Thank you for all of your replies. Some answers--
1. There really are no other options for schools for DS with dyslexia. As I said this is the third school in 3 years and it is the best fit for him. We could move DD to a public school and supplement music--but it would be harder for us to do that and I would probably even put her at DSs school before I did that so I could have one drop off!

2. I think that the bottom line is the issue on how we communicate regarding issues where there isn't a good compromise. We really haven't encountered any in the 10 years of being married or it was ok to let it go etc. I really do understand that his view point is valid--I guess I just don't want to listen to him process this when the kids are in school and happy. And I think he just needs to process it and I feel like I have no energy to do that with him and I wish he would find other people with whom he could process. Which is generally what I do. I usually process with others and then talk to him. And that is a change for me--I used to process all the time. But he is an introvert so I learned to process with others and only engage him once I had things figured out. So maybe I feel some resentment that I don't get to process with him but he expects to do so with me. (well, that insight was worth $100 in therapy--I love the BBB!!) :cheerleader1:

2. It is true that I want the kids to have some sort of regular religious instruction. I think DH just figured I would never get off my butt to do it on my own! :wink2: There are many reasons for this--my own faith, for cultural literacy purposes etc. (DH and I honeymooned in Italy and I had to explain all the paintings and all the carvings and statues etc to him--he had NO idea what those scenes were and I'm saying "umm, that's Moses in the bullrushes". He actually came home and read several books on the historical Jesus, history of relilgion etc. DS went to the JCC for kindergarten and said all the prayers at Hanukkah. I think that freaked DH out a bit too.

3. Neither one of these schools is real hard line or dogmatic (not sure what words to use here). I can liken it to my experience with the Episcopalian church in the east coast--I left because I felt it was too tied to the ritual, no questioning (I almost got kicked out of confirmation class because I asked too many questions!), and it had a vested interest in serving the upper class. (where I lived) Here, it is a very liberal force in this state and runs all sorts of community assistance programs. Same thing with the Catholic church here.

4. I have NO problem explaining how my views differ from any religion and will be happy to do so when the discussions on same sex marriage arise etc. At this point, she is learning things like "God made me special--I am special because I am fast and strong." The kids cannot opt out of religious education and I am ok with that---this is a Catholic school.

I think the most important points here are really #1 and 2. Which means I really do need to talk to him about getting some couples therapy so we can gently reshape some patterns we have fallen into after 10 years of marriage. Thank you, all of you. I really appreciate your time and your thoughts.

[mommy111]

2. It is true that I want the kids to have some sort of regular religious instruction. I think DH just figured I would never get off my butt to do it on my own! :wink2: There are many reasons for this--my own faith, for cultural literacy purposes etc. (DH and I honeymooned in Italy and I had to explain all the paintings and all the carvings and statues etc to him--he had NO idea what those scenes were and I'm saying "umm, that's Moses in the bullrushes". He actually came home and read several books on the historical Jesus, history of relilgion etc. DS went to the JCC for kindergarten and said all the prayers at Hanukkah. I think that freaked DH out a bit too.

3. Neither one of these schools is real hard line or dogmatic (not sure what words to use here). I can liken it to my experience with the Episcopalian church in the east coast--I left because I felt it was too tied to the ritual, no questioning (I almost got kicked out of confirmation class because I asked too many questions!), and it had a vested interest in serving the upper class. (where I lived) Here, it is a very liberal force in this state and runs all sorts of community assistance programs. Same thing with the Catholic church here.

4. I have NO problem explaining how my views differ from any religion and will be happy to do so when the discussions on same sex marriage arise etc. At this point, she is learning things like "God made me special--I am special because I am fast and strong." The kids cannot opt out of religious education and I am ok with that---this is a Catholic school.

I think the most important points here are really #1 and 2. Which means I really do need to talk to him about getting some couples therapy so we can gently reshape some patterns we have fallen into after 10 years of marriage. Thank you, all of you. I really appreciate your time and your thoughts.
Just to put his perspective out there, I think the major issue for him may be #4. He sees his kids being brought up with language/rituals/beliefs that are completely alien to his value system and he probably views any mention of God as indoctrination. Just as your religion is a fall back for you, I am sure he has psychological fall backs that are not religious in nature.
I don't think this is just an issue of schools and special services for your child, I think there is a much larger issue here and that is one of how you guys have decided to bring your kids up religiously. I would definitely sort this out right now before it starts affecting your marriage and if necessary, I would see a counsellor for this. I don't think that he has accepted that you want your kids brought up with a concept of God (of whatever denomination) and similarly, you are having a hard time understanding where he is coming from....since you've obviously struggled to find the right school for your child, this is a school issue for you and a life issue for him.