Sleep training 5 month old?

[PGTB]

Since DS turned 3 months he had been a terrible sleeper, fussy during the day time naps and waking up frequently at night to nurse (every 1-2 hours like newborn) or to just stay awake for 1-3 hours straight in the middle of the night. DH and I are completely exhausted, we work full time and don't have a chance to make up on sleep during the day. Since I BF I have to take all the night time feedings until morning (6-7 am when DH takes over, so that I can snooze for a couple of hours). It's getting dangerous, as my body is figuring out how to snooze while standing up and I often feel not so stable on my feet and afraid I would fall and drop DS.

I am trying to postpone the sleep training till he is at least 6 months old like many sources seem to recommend, but if he continues to nurse every hour like last two nights I don't think I can make it :gloomy:

Basically, we have two problems here:

1) too many nursing sessions at night (half of his meals are at night time it seems) - need to shift feeding towards the daytime. When DS wakes up in the morning he isn't hungry and goes without a meal for 4 hours or more (between 7 and 11am)!

2) difficult time going to sleep after waking up, sometimes results in long 2-3 hour wake periods with crying and wanting to play during the night. He also doesn't want to let go of the nipple when I put him down after a nursing session and cries the moment I put him into his crib. I started giving him my finger as a paci (he doesn't like a regular paci) to soothe him. Or maybe he is just needing to itch his gums due to teething? I don't think it's teething though, because it's just taking sooo long.

The goal is to reduce the number of night time nursing sessions to at least 1-2 a night, which I am convinced should be sufficient for him at this age. He is gaining weight well and since he was 6 weeks old he has been perfectly able to go for 5 hours without feeding back then. I know he *should* be able to go for at least 6 hours without a feeding at 5 months. Did you have a similar pattern of super frequent night nursing sessions and what did you do to reduce their amount?

Also, what would you recommend? Should I start sleep training DS now at 5 months or should I wait till he is at least 6-7 months? I need to teach DS to be able to fall asleep on his own. What method did you use? I have almost finished reading Ferber book and at some point when things went really really bad tried it with some success at 4.5 months... I quit because of our cross-country trip and because I don't really like to see him cry.. Is there any hope for us? :help:

[BabyBearsMom]

How much is he eating during the day? Have you tried to feed him more (i.e. bigger bottles)? When we went to our 4 month appt my ped told us that we had to start weaning DD off of her night-time feedings (she was doing 1 to 2 feedings a night). We started by increasing her bottles and recently added some solid foods (she is 5.5 months now but was very interested in our food, holding her own bottle etc.). Our current schedule is I nurse her at 5:30am when she wakes up. While she is at daycare she gets four 6 ounce bottles (up from three six ounce bottles). They also give her 1 TBSP of Rice Cereal in the morning and some pureed fruit/vegetable that is the size of an ice cube in a tray (sometimes she doesn't finish it) in the early afternoon. At home she nurses before bed, goes down between 6:30 and 7:00. Since we have been doing this, she has been sleeping through the night (about 1.5 weeks now, so not sure if it will stick).

For going to bed at night, we don't let her fall asleep in our arms/while eating. If she does, I gently wake her up a little by burping her and then put her in the crib awake. I usually stay in the room with her until she falls asleep, sometimes I sing to her and stroke her head if she is particularly fussy. Usually, she will fuss, not cry just "eh eh eh" for about 5 minutes, and then she goes to sleep. She is also starting to suck her thumb now, which is helping. I know it is hard, but good luck!

[wellyes]

Sounds like your baby is a reverse cycler - see here for some tips: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling.html

When we had that issue, I put off sleep training for a while by simply not feeding DD at night. This made her want to eat more during the day. The trick is that the baby really really REALLY can't be around YOU and not nurse. That's asking too much. Basically it was my turn til midnight, then DH's turn til morning. He soothed her and bounced her but didn't feed her. It was hard for him but it worked within about a week or so.

[PGTB]

Sounds like your baby is a reverse cycler - see here for some tips: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling.html

When we had that issue, I put off sleep training for a while by simply not feeding DD at night. This made her want to eat more during the day. The trick is that the baby really really REALLY can't be around YOU and not nurse. That's asking too much. Basically it was my turn til midnight, then DH's turn til morning. He soothed her and bounced her but didn't feed her. It was hard for him but it worked within about a week or so.

Thank you, this does sound like DS! Especially, since he does have a reason to reverse cycle given the fact that I am not home with him all day. Were you leaving the room when you were night weaning DD and had DH take care of her after midnight? We share a bedroom with DS and his mini-crib is next to my bedside, so he can smell me I guess. Should I let DH sleep on that side of the bed for now and would me being a few feet away make a difference? Also, were you nursing DD during the day or did you have her bottle-fed by the DC provider? I can only nurse DS in the morning before work and then after work and maybe sometimes I can make it during lunch. don't know if this will be enough for him to give up the night time nursing.

[wellyes]

DD was bottle-fed during the day - no surprise she'd prefer nursing and mom contact at night, given the choice. But I needed sleep to be a good mom.

We had DD in the same room with us but not a co-sleeper... she was a few feet away. When she fussed, DH got up and took her out of the room. Mostly so that we weren't both stuck being awake when she fussed. We live in a 2-story house and he'd bounce her for a bit then walk her up and down the steps until she dozed off again. It was hard, especially at first, but it got progressively easier as she started taking more milk during the day.

[PGTB]

How much is he eating during the day? Have you tried to feed him more (i.e. bigger bottles)? When we went to our 4 month appt my ped told us that we had to start weaning DD off of her night-time feedings (she was doing 1 to 2 feedings a night). We started by increasing her bottles and recently added some solid foods (she is 5.5 months now but was very interested in our food, holding her own bottle etc.). Our current schedule is I nurse her at 5:30am when she wakes up. While she is at daycare she gets four 6 ounce bottles (up from three six ounce bottles). They also give her 1 TBSP of Rice Cereal in the morning and some pureed fruit/vegetable that is the size of an ice cube in a tray (sometimes she doesn't finish it) in the early afternoon. At home she nurses before bed, goes down between 6:30 and 7:00. Since we have been doing this, she has been sleeping through the night (about 1.5 weeks now, so not sure if it will stick).

For going to bed at night, we don't let her fall asleep in our arms/while eating. If she does, I gently wake her up a little by burping her and then put her in the crib awake. I usually stay in the room with her until she falls asleep, sometimes I sing to her and stroke her head if she is particularly fussy. Usually, she will fuss, not cry just "eh eh eh" for about 5 minutes, and then she goes to sleep. She is also starting to suck her thumb now, which is helping. I know it is hard, but good luck!

DS is currently eating about 3 5oz bottles with the nanny when I am gone. He doesn't eat in the earlier morning hours between 7 and 11 am usually. I haven't tried giving him more than 5oz because he also spits up a lot if he is overfed and it's not always that he can take more. He is just not as hungry during the day I am guessing. In 24 hour period he usually has about 16-20oz EBM (during the day) and spends 40-60 min (between day and night) on the breast. I haven't tried solids yet, want to hold off on that till he is 6 months old or at least when he is sitting better.

I am worried about him being inconsolable by DH during the night and crying excessively, because he is so used to nursing frequently now.. But the only way to make him eat more during the day I guess is to make him wake up hungrier from the night time. Is there a way for no extended cry night weaning?

[PGTB]

DD was bottle-fed during the day - no surprise she'd prefer nursing and mom contact at night, given the choice. But I needed sleep to be a good mom.

We had DD in the same room with us but not a co-sleeper... she was a few feet away. When she fussed, DH got up and took her out of the room. Mostly so that we weren't both stuck being awake when she fussed. We live in a 2-story house and he'd bounce her for a bit then walk her up and down the steps until she dozed off again. It was hard, especially at first, but it got progressively easier as she started taking more milk during the day.

I think this can work for us, DH has been offering to take DS with him to the living room. This is actually what he does at 6-7 am after I feed DS in the morning. We have a mini-crib on wheels and usually it's in the room corner away from our bed, I just roll DS to my bedside at night as I like to have him close for night time feedings. I guess, after we manage to night wean him to some extent (keeping my fingers crossed), we can leave the mini-crib in the corner of the bedroom.

When your DH managed to soothe DD, did she continue to wake up during the night the same amount of time just to be soothed or did she drop night time wakings because she wasn't fed? DS is also fussy when it comes to going to bed and nursing is often the best way to make him fall asleep. I know, according to Ferber, this creates an association between feeding and falling asleep, but would DH's techniques of soothing DS to sleep also create new undesirable sleep associations? I am just worried DH will be sleep deprived just the same or worse if DS will keep waking up as frequently for night time soothing as he does for nursing. Also, soothing without a nipple takes longer time and DS is known to stay awake at night for 2 hours straight.. At this point if DS keeps staying awake I am worried about him getting enough sleep for such a small baby.

[wellyes]

When your DH managed to soothe DD, did she continue to wake up during the night the same amount of time just to be soothed or did she drop night time wakings because she wasn't fed?

For us, hanging out with Dad was apparently much less motivation to get up than getting nursed by mom. It definitely decreased night wakings. It didn't solve all of our problems -- we did ended up Ferbering at 8 months -- but it helped.

If I were you I'd try night weaning before sleep training. Sleep training for a night-weaned baby is hard, I can only imagine it'd be exponentially harder for a baby who is also still wanting to nurse.

[BabyBearsMom]

For us, hanging out with Dad was apparently much less motivation to get up than getting nursed by mom. It definitely decreased night wakings. It didn't solve all of our problems -- we did ended up Ferbering at 8 months -- but it helped.

If I were you I'd try night weaning before sleep training. Sleep training for a night-weaned baby is hard, I can only imagine it'd be exponentially harder for a baby who is also still wanting to nurse.

DH always goes into DD when she wakes up in the middle of the night now. That way she doesn't think that food is even an option. He will stroke her hair, and speak softly to her. We don't pick her up out of the crib unless there is a soiled diaper, because if she gets picked up she wants to play.