Thank you, Ellen.

[citymama]

It has been heartbreaking to read in recent days about the young people (Tyler Clementi in NJ, Seth Walsh in CA, Asher Brown in TX, Billy Lucas in IN, and most recently, Raymond Chase in TX) literally bullied to death for being gay. My heart goes out to those sweet kids who lost their lives, and to their parents. How utterly monstrous that this kind of bullying and humiliation takes place in the 21st century, among kids - kids, who are supposed to be less homophobic and more tolerant than the bigoted generations before them.

I hope my kids will grow up in a more tolerant and caring world, but it makes me afraid for them and their cousins and friends - some of whom could very well be gay.

I am not an Ellen show watcher, but this clip posted on Facebook made me cry. Thank you Ellen, for not remaining silent. I hope this clip inspires parents everywhere to tell their kids: "I will still love you no matter what your sexuality is, and don't let anyone tell you any different. I am proud of you for who you are and you can always find a safe place with me."

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=592846987806

(it must be on youtube as well, I just don't have a link)

:candle: in memoriam for the kids who lost their lives

[Globetrotter]

Yes, kudos to Ellen for speaking out on this. She is a positive role model for the gay community, and she is someone who is respected in the mainstream too.

I am going to talk to my kids about tolerance for homosexuality, just as I do for racial differences. It is really sad that people can be so intolerant and judgmental. On CNN, they showed the asst. attorney general of Michigan (an ADULT) who has gone after a gay college president!

[lovebebes]

so sad.

[Kitten007]

:candle: in memoriam for the kids who lost their lives

Amen. Saying a prayer out there for all the families who have suffered and for all the children/adults suffering. I agree with Ellen, this has to stop. Any type of discrimination should stop, but it will be a very long time before we see the end of discrimination.

[Momit]

Well said, Ellen and Citymama.

[blisstwins]

I adore Ellen.

[maestramommy]

There's another video that (ironically) is circulating FB as of yesterday. Two gay men who tell kids if they can just make it through HS it will get better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IcVyvg2Qlo&sns=fb

Has a wee bit of raunch, but otherwise it's just beautiful. The death of Tyler Clementi just makes me so sad. I don't know why people are so thoughtless and cruel. Why they think broadcasting someone else's private lives is funny.

[Sillygirl]

There's another video that (ironically) is circulating FB as of yesterday. Two gay men who tell kids if they can just make it through HS it will get better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IcVyvg2Qlo&sns=fb

Has a wee bit of raunch, but otherwise it's just beautiful. The death of Tyler Clementi just makes me so sad. I don't know why people are so thoughtless and cruel. Why they think broadcasting someone else's private lives is funny.

Those two guys are Dan Savage, the famous columnist, and his partner Terry. There's a whole YouTube channel devoted to the "It gets better" movement. Gay men and women all over the country are uploading videos, encouraging high school students to hang in there. I think it's a fantastic idea and the videos are quite moving. Adrienne Curry and (blech) Perez Hilton both have ones up as well.

[wellyes]

Dan Savage is awesome, and good for Ellen for her video too. I was shocked that a teenager would kill himself just for getting outed. I guess I shouldn't have been. I was looking at it from a 35 year old's perspective... Dan's right, it does get better.

And as a side note, that poor kid's death is a reminder to tell our own kids that anywhere there is a web cam, there is no guarantee of privacy. Just one more thing they'll need to watch out for in this new world.

[Snow mom]

Dan Savage is awesome, and good for Ellen for her video too. I was shocked that a teenager would kill himself just for getting outed. I guess I shouldn't have been. I was looking at it from a 35 year old's perspective... Dan's right, it does get better.

And as a side note, that poor kid's death is a reminder to tell our own kids that anywhere there is a web cam, there is no guarantee of privacy. Just one more thing they'll need to watch out for in this new world.

Well, he was more than outed--there was live streaming footage of him having sex. I know that would mortify me now, although I probably would just stay home indefinitely. When you are a college student living in a dorm there is no avoiding your peers, especially if you are living with the person who did something so hateful. Honestly, I think the university failed him on this. Apparently it was being gossiped about and there should have been someone (resident assistant?) to step up and deal with the situation as soon as it arose. I work with this age group and even though it is very far from my actual job I try to keep my ear to the ground for any emotional problems. I think the lesson is that we need to not only teach our children that we love them unconditionally, but also to be empathetic and watch out for each other and we need to model this ourselves. Parents are often not enough of a support network at a time when kids are trying to increase their independence. We had a student bring an AK47 onto campus and shoot himself this week and I talked to my students afterward about watching out for each other and resources available for them to get help with any problems they might have. They all looked at me like I was crazy (as teenagers are prone to do) but I hope that if enough people in their lives tell them there is help available that I'll never have to hear that one of them has made such a drastic decision.

[maestramommy]

Those two guys are Dan Savage, the famous columnist, and his partner Terry. There's a whole YouTube channel devoted to the "It gets better" movement. Gay men and women all over the country are uploading videos, encouraging high school students to hang in there. I think it's a fantastic idea and the videos are quite moving. Adrienne Curry and (blech) Perez Hilton both have ones up as well.

Wow, see, I'm really out of it. I had no idea who these guys are, I thought they were just random guys:p

But you're right, I think it's a wonderful thing they are doing.

[citymama]

I'll have to check out that other video - I :heartbeat: Dan Savage!

And you're right PP, it's about providing our kids with unconditional love on every level.

[elektra]

This story is so tragic. I can't stop thinking about it. I am so angry at those other kids for humiliating Tyler clementi to death. Literally. But I saw the other kids' pictures in the paper today too and they looked like all-American, good kids too. What they did was heinous and horrible, but I'm guessing that they did not mean as much harm as what they actually inflicted.
I am taking notes on this one, as it is abundantly clear that we need to teach our kids to think hard about their actions and what they might mean to another person. What you think is a prank could actually be a life changing event for all involved.
ETA, some descriptions of "digital citizenship" ( things even adults tend to forget) written by Jim Steyer from Common Sense Media (?) I have never heard of him but this stuff makes sense.
-self-reflect before you self-reveal
-respect others' feelings and privacy online
-remember that what you do digitally never goes away
-remember that everything on the Internet isn't true or accurate.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Thank you for this reminder. I haven't touched on sexuality but I have continuously told ds1 that we will love and support him no matter what but I think I'll really make a point of talking to him and seeing that he understands as best he can.

Beth

[SnuggleBuggles]

I am taking notes on this one, as it is abundantly clear that we need to teach our kids to think hard about their actions and what they might mean to another person. What you think is a prank could actually be a life changing event for all involved.

Very, very good point.

Beth

[Laurel]

There's another video that (ironically) is circulating FB as of yesterday. Two gay men who tell kids if they can just make it through HS it will get better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IcVyvg2Qlo&sns=fb

Has a wee bit of raunch, but otherwise it's just beautiful. The death of Tyler Clementi just makes me so sad. I don't know why people are so thoughtless and cruel. Why they think broadcasting someone else's private lives is funny.

I am confused where the "raunch" is here? They met in a bar and had a suggestive first conversation, but nothing about it was any more raunchy than "how we met" stories I hear from my friends all the time.

[arivecchi]

This story is horriying on so many levels, but what gets me is that the kids who taped Tyler obviously wanted to humiliate him. It is one thing if they had watched and giggled (horrible and an invasion of privacy), but to stream it live online???? How can you not expect the other person to feel violated, humiliated and even suicidal? They have now been charged.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage

[AnnieW625]

Another reason I don't think I would ever use a hidden camera ever.

This story is just soo sad. I feel for Tyler's parents, family, and friends. College freshman are just cruel.

Thanks Ellen, and to all of the other helpful advocates out there.

[mommylamb]

I also can't stop thinking about this. I feel so badly for poor Tyler. I'm also wondering what happened to his partner, who was also on the internet having sex without his knowledge.

[wendibird22]

This whole situation is horrible. I work on a college campus and on a daily basis I speak with students about and over hear students discussing actions and behaviors that impact themselves and those around them. An all too common response is "I never meant for..." and "I didn't think..." I find it sad that 18-22 yr old adults (yes, I consider them adults not kids), have yet to learn that their actions, their language, their decisions oftentimes have a direct impact on others.

I also spend a lot of time discussing bullying and hazing (the adult version of bullying). One of the things we spend a lot of time on is the concept of "hidden harm." This concept is based on the fact that we rarely ever know everything about a person, even a good friend. We may not know that a fellow student, friend, roommate, teammate, etc. was physically or mentally abused, has/had an eating disorder, suffers from anxiety, has a un/diagnosed mental health disorder, has a learning disability, suffers from depression, is a survivor of sexual assault or domestic violence, etc, etc and that something that might be a seemingly harmless prank, a joke, boys being boys, etc. and have little to no impact on one person, may trigger a negative reaction for someone else who has a "hidden" or not so hidden past. For example, a coach or captain telling a rookie that he's worthless and a waste of space on the field and that rookie grew up being told he'd never amount to anything by his parent(s).

I find that students are much more able to wrap their heads around this concept and see why bullying/hazing can have severe negative consequences than just telling them it's wrong or that we need to treat people with respect. I plan to have many "hidden harm" conversations with my daughters throughout their childhood.

[boolady]

This story is horriying on so many levels, but what gets me is that the kids who taped Tyler obviously wanted to humiliate him. It is one thing if they had watched and giggled (horrible and an invasion of privacy), but to stream it live online???? How can you not expect the other person to feel violated, humiliated and even suicidal? They have now been charged.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage

:yeahthat: The complete disregard for Tyler's privacy and dignity makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about it.

[citymama]

Tyler's story is horribly tragic - but there were three other teens driven by bullies to suicide in September because of their perceived sexual orientation. Asher Brown's story in Houston, TX, Seth Walsh in Tecachapi, CA and Billy Lucas in Greensburg, IN are all horrifying.

http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2010/09/29/our-queer-children-are-killing-themselves

ETA Just saw: a 5th gay teen suicide in Sept, Raymond Chase in RI.
RIP.

[shilo]

I am confused where the "raunch" is here? They met in a bar and had a suggestive first conversation, but nothing about it was any more raunchy than "how we met" stories I hear from my friends all the time.

isn't that the point tho?.. no more, no less... the SAME.

there's no implication in the OP that it's 'raunch' because it's between a gay couple. if i heard the same story from a hetero friend, i'd think it was a little 'raunchy' too - in a rawwwrrr kind of way ;).

[Laurel]

isn't that the point tho?.. no more, no less... the SAME.

there's no implication in the OP that it's 'raunch' because it's between a gay couple. if i heard the same story from a hetero friend, i'd think it was a little 'raunchy' too - in a rawwwrrr kind of way ;).

I am just wondering why a flirtatious conversation is considered raunchy, gay or straight. There was no overt mention of sex, or foul language.

[baymom]

Thanks for posting the Ellen clip, Citymama. I'm sitting here crying at the computer. I'd seen this story all over the media in the last couple days, but Ellen's message was so straight forward, powerful and beautiful.

DH and I are always talking to our kids about religious, racial and physical differences and how that makes us all different and unique and special. Mine are still 4 and 6yrs old, but in a few years, we will definitely be talking about sexual differences.

[maestramommy]

I am just wondering why a flirtatious conversation is considered raunchy, gay or straight. There was no overt mention of sex, or foul language.

Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of raunch(y). To me it was just a wee bit. It woulda been a wee bit had the couple been straight. imo it has nothing to do with saying anything overtly, or using foul language.

But that's just me;)

[shilo]

I am just wondering why a flirtatious conversation is considered raunchy, gay or straight. There was no overt mention of sex, or foul language.

i guess it depends on how your inner barometer views 'raunchy'...

mine leans more toward being more of 'base, raw, lustful, or earthy' - something "the better to eat you with my dear" would fall under in my mind... like i said - raaawwwrrrr ;).

but i guess if someone else's inner barometer for that word reads something more like 'lewd, sexually inappropriate, vulgar or obscene' into the definition of raunchy, then applying it in this situation would seem more negative.

just my 2 pennies.

ETA: i see i was posting at the same time as the OP. sorry for the duplicate.

[maestramommy]

i guess it depends on how your inner barometer views 'raunchy'...

mine leans more toward being more of 'base, raw, lustful, or earthy' - something "the better to eat you with my dear" would fall under in my mind... like i said - raaawwwrrrr ;).

:tongue5: And I see that my definition of raunch is the same as yours, m'dear!

[citymama]

Re the "raunch" factor in the Savage video, you have to keep in mind who they prepared that for: young teens in high school who are struggling with being gay. This was not prepared for younger kids or their more prudish parents! But it is such a sweet video; I totally teared up watching it.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

I thought the raunch comment was referring to the use of the "s" word?

[maestramommy]

I thought the raunch comment was referring to the use of the "s" word?

ummm, no. :ROTFLMAO:

[ehf]

This story is so tragic.But I saw the other kids' pictures in the paper today too and they looked like all-American, good kids too. What they did was heinous and horrible, but I'm guessing that they did not mean as much harm as what they actually inflicted.


I don't totally understand this. What do good kids look like, exactly? Or, put another way, what do bad kids look like? Like they aren't "all American"?

Of course they didn't mean to drive someone to suicide, but what level harm DID they mean to inflict? The idea that their instinct was to humiliate someone else by grossly violating his privacy is by itself just disturbing. What exactly did they find so funny in the situation?

I will say, though, that I work with teenagers and that I think they are unbelievably kind to and understanding of each other. Our society needs to figure out how to prevent bullying without condemning an entire generation.

[jenfromnj]

:yeahthat: The complete disregard for Tyler's privacy and dignity makes me sick to my stomach every time I think about it.

ITA with both of you. I live about a mile from Tyler Clementi's parents/family, the story is huge news here and the whole community has been really affected by it. My heart really goes out to his family, who apparently did not even know that their son was gay.

I understand that young adults don't always consider the consequences of their actions, but this just goes so far beyond that, and beyond being "outed"--those 2 students committed a felony and an incredible invasion of Clementi's privacy, and apparently this happened at least twice. It is especially scary to me that this happened at Rutgers, which is generally known in NJ as being a very supportive place for the GLBT community.

I just feel like it's a scary and sad commentary on our society that there is a recent epidemic of suicides from teens who are so humiliated at being gay that they'd rather die than be outed. I know that a lot of progress has been made, but this (to me) just illustrates what a long way we have to go.

[elektra]

I don't totally understand this. What do good kids look like, exactly? Or, put another way, what do bad kids look like? Like they aren't "all American"?

Of course they didn't mean to drive someone to suicide, but what level harm DID they mean to inflict? The idea that their instinct was to humiliate someone else by grossly violating his privacy is by itself just disturbing. What exactly did they find so funny in the situation?

I will say, though, that I work with teenagers and that I think they are unbelievably kind to and understanding of each other. Our society needs to figure out how to prevent bullying without condemning an entire generation.
I meant that they looked like nice college kids. I don't know what I was expecting them to look like exactly, but I guess I was just surprised at their appearance. Clean cut maybe?
And I'm not saying that just because they probably feel bad now or that they "didn't mean it" or because they don't look like monsters that their actions are somehow more forgivable. They should have thought a lot harder about how horrible an act they were committing. It's my guess that they didn't think enough about it though.

[mousemom]

I also spend a lot of time discussing bullying and hazing (the adult version of bullying). One of the things we spend a lot of time on is the concept of "hidden harm." This concept is based on the fact that we rarely ever know everything about a person, even a good friend. We may not know that a fellow student, friend, roommate, teammate, etc. was physically or mentally abused, has/had an eating disorder, suffers from anxiety, has a un/diagnosed mental health disorder, has a learning disability, suffers from depression, is a survivor of sexual assault or domestic violence, etc, etc and that something that might be a seemingly harmless prank, a joke, boys being boys, etc. and have little to no impact on one person, may trigger a negative reaction for someone else who has a "hidden" or not so hidden past. For example, a coach or captain telling a rookie that he's worthless and a waste of space on the field and that rookie grew up being told he'd never amount to anything by his parent(s).

I find that students are much more able to wrap their heads around this concept and see why bullying/hazing can have severe negative consequences than just telling them it's wrong or that we need to treat people with respect. I plan to have many "hidden harm" conversations with my daughters throughout their childhood.

Thanks for posting this. You're right that approach does make it more concrete. Good for all of us to keep in mind that we only know half the story (if that) when dealing with other people.

[nov04]

I'm so glad this is finally getting some press. This has been happening as long as I could remember and finally we're taking some notice.

[wellyes]

I meant that they looked like nice college kids. I don't know what I was expecting them to look like exactly, but I guess I was just surprised at their appearance. Clean cut maybe?


I know what you meant - pictures are humanizing. (Picture of bullies. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/nyregion/30suicide.html)) It's a horrible situation and I can't help but feel compassionate for all involved.

[Bens Momma]

Sorry double post.

[Bens Momma]

Just to add.....the whole situation is completely horrible on many levels, but it should be said that what these 2 did was horrid, an invasion of privacy, and a crime no matter who (gay/straight) they were filming. It makes it worse and shocking that they were trying to humiliate Tyler because he was a homosexual, but they still secretly streamed video of people having sex without their knowledge. And it ultimately lead to one of those people committing suicide. Seems to me that there must be more of a crime committed here than just an invasion of privacy. Imagine if someone did this to you?

[xmasbabycomin]

Thanks for posting this. You're right that approach does make it more concrete. Good for all of us to keep in mind that we only know half the story (if that) when dealing with other people.

What she said. ;) (sorry didn't do the multi-quote right) When I was a teacher I often felt helpless regarding bullying. Preventive strategies like this are tools more people need to be made aware of. This brings back memories of the 9 y/o in Dallas who killed himself because of bullying, but his parents knew and just didn't know how to help him the right way.