How to use budget and spouses wants.

[niccig]

I'm going to pitch a spending plan idea to DH - can't call it a budget as he's allergic to that word. Seriously. DH agreed to read Elizabeth Warren's All Your Worth and I think he'll be open to trying some of what she suggests.

One idea in Warren's books it to limit spending on wants to certain % of take home pay, and to use cash for these purposes. She suggests couples each have certain amount they can do what they want with and the other can't complain if it's all on gadgets or clothes, as long as under the agreed amount. We have this issue as I'm more frugal and look disapprovingly at any purchase DH makes, and I want to stop doing that. I want us to agree on how much to save and how much to spend on wants. I also think it will free me up a bit to replace things like my jeans - one pair has broken zipper but you can't tell if I wear a long shirt, another pair has ripped holes that I keep sewing. DH buys new clothes for himself and I get all pouty as still wearing my ripped jeans. I know this is MY issue, I can go buy a new pair of jeans.

So all of that is back story to my question. How to track how much we spend in the wants category? DH is a credit card guy, and he won't write anything down. DH gets paid weekly, so we could take a set amount out a week, but we also buy a lot online - how do you deal with these credit card payments that are out of your Wants money?

We could set up own bank accounts and transfer set amount to our own account, and then agree to use own credit card for the wants and pay for that card out of separate bank accts. I currently pay all the bills and we have joint bank accounts and joint credit cards - but one card is just in my name. I'm on DH's, but could agree to your credit card, my credit card and house credit card (groceries etc). But again, you can lose track of how much you are buying and get hit with a bigger bill. We always pay off our credit cards monthly.

I need to have this be as simple as possible to do, so we have best chance of success. Budget is our main issue to fight over. I'm frugal and always worrying that we're not saving enough, DH is more spendy and more optimistic about our future. I don't want to be the bad person and constantly nagging, nor do I want to have to sift through the credit card bills and say this is your want, this is my want and total it up each month. BUT, I do think separating them out will be a learning experience for DH - he has no idea how much he spends, and neither did I until I took over paying the bills, so I do understand how you can lose track.

So, suggestions - I really want DH and I to get on the same page with this.

[randomkid]

Ugh, trust me, I know where you are coming from! I pay all the bills and am also much more frugal than DH. I just figured up our monthly expenses on toll road usage and in 3 weeks, I spent $18 while DH spent $33 (the toll road is more of a convenience and not a necessity in most cases). I know if I bring this up to him, he will think I am nit-picking, but this kind of stuff adds up. He also buys his lunch nearly everyday while I take my lunch to work most of the time. I am still working on how to successfully approach him with these things since I have asked him to take his lunch countless times and he still does not do it.

So, back to your original question. For needs like gas, home improvements, etc. we use joint credit cards. Well, DH uses the CC and I tend to pay cash which is fine with me as it helps me track his expenses. For wants, DH has his own CC and his own checking account. I use the joint account for my wants, which are very few. I figure since I pay the bills and I am more responsible with spending, my wants can come out of the joint account. We have direct deposit, so most of DH's check goes into the joint account, then a designated (small) amount goes into his checking account. He uses his own cc for his wants and pays for it with his checking acct. If he doesn't have enough money to pay his cc, then that is his problem. I think it has really helped him realize how much money he spends, but I am not sure if it has curbed his spending any. I totally stay out of it and that way I am not nagging him about his spending all the time. I do know how much money he gets per pay period, but I have no idea how much he is spending or what the balance is on his credit card. I did talk to him about it once, but he was not very responsive to me which tells me his balance is too high. I figure it's his problem and I just choose to not get involved. I did tell him at one point that he would have to work a second job to pay for his hobbies if he wanted to continue them. This lasted about 2 months - lol! I am still working on figuring out a way for him to make extra money to cover his hobby expenses as I have made it perfectly clear that he is not to pay for those expenses out of our joint account. I know that he has sold things on eBay at times to cover some of his expenses and he is pretty good about leaving our joint $$ out of it. If you want to track your own "wants" expenses, I would suggest that you keep a small notebook or a file on the computer to enter your expenses. Since you seem to be like me and spend very little on wants, that would be relatively easy to do.

[niccig]

I do know how much money he gets per pay period, but I have no idea how much he is spending or what the balance is on his credit card. I did talk to him about it once, but he was not very responsive to me which tells me his balance is too high. I figure it's his problem and I just choose to not get involved.

Thanks RandomKid.
This is what I'm concerned about. DH has always carried a balance on his credit cards. That is until a few years ago when I pitched a fit about it. Now we don't carry a balance anymore, but there's still no real budgeting other than a rough spreadsheet that works out how much for big bills like insurance etc, and I make sure that is in the bank account. I know DH is relieved that we don't have cc debt anymore, and we have an emergency fund (due to some one-off extra income once a year for last few years, but this won't happen anymore). But I don't know if he's relieved enough to get his spending under control - and some months it's fine, other months it's not.

I think I can only agree to separate cc and bank account if the cc is paid off in full each month, and we have to show each other that. I would totally flip if DH ran up thousands on his books/gadgets/clothes and didn't pay it off. I hope he wouldn't. A friend's DH agreed to x amount a year for his hobby, and it was a significant amount, he spent 3 times that and hid it from her, syphoned off money here and there to pay for it. DH was appalled at his friend's behaviour. Still, maybe a debit card would be better for both of us for wants - if it's not there, it's not there.

[kozachka]

I like your idea of using debit cards. Not all web sites take debit cards but you can use PayPal for those. Problem with my DH is that he has his own business and I don't know exactly how much he makes.

I used to be like you but at some got tired of being frugal more than necessary and allowed myself to indulge in better things in life. I am still concerned about our retirement saving but figured a pair of jeans/shoes/t-shirt/latte won't make a huge difference but lack of them makes me less happy right now. Trick is to maintain a healthy balance.

[egoldber]

I would actually do it from the other direction. I would not phrase it as controlling spending or budgeting for wants. I would create a budget with two sections, necessities (groceries, mortgage, gas, insurance, etc.) and then mutual financial goals (emergency fund, retirement, school tuition, etc.).

After the financial goals are met, well, I would let the money fall where it may. My DH is not a spendthrift, but there is no way he would agree to a monthly budget for his interests/lunch, etc. Some months he spends little to nothing and some months he spends a lot. But he also won't overspend vs what we agree on. Our sort of unofficial rule as a couple is any purchase over $100 we discuss first. Less than that, it's fair game.

So maybe after the budget is set, perhaps try to arrive at a $ amount above which you will discuss things as a couple. And then try to let the other stuff go. This was really hard for me initially in our marriage because I came from a family with very little. So a lot of what DH wanted to buy seemed very frivolous or unimportant to me. Whereas he grew up comfortable and these things seemed normal to him. It was probably a good 5-10 years into marriage before I became more comfortable with being more "frivolous" in my spending.

[wolverine2]

We don't use credit cards anymore. We have tried to set aside a certain amount every month for both of us that is "blow" money (this is a Dave Ramsey idea). We take it out in cash, and do whatever we want with it. I always spend all of mine- DH doesn't, and sometimes he saves it, and sometimes he gives some to me. :) When I buy something online from my blow money, I use the debit card and then pay the bank account back the cash. If your DH is a credit card guy, it would be hard to switch to cash, I think, especially for online purchases- but with a credit card it's very easy to go over the agreed upon limit. Unless you got a visa gift card every month or something like that.

[hopeful_mama]

It sounds like he might be too resistant to keeping track of his wants as well as limiting them at this point. Would you be open to suggesting that he just keep track of them at this point, but not worry more than usual about limiting them? This could get him in the habit of tracking them, so it might be easier to later combine that with limiting them. Also you'd both get a clear picture of how much he is actually spending on stuff like that. And it could even help to limit him on his own; I've read that people who start keeping track of their eating without any additional diet plans generally eat fewer calories and healthier foods than before they started tracking it - I could totally see that happen with keeping track of expenses.

Not exactly what you were asking for, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case it was helpful.

[momm]

Have you tried using financial software like mint.com? It's free, very easy to set up.

You can connect all your bank accounts, CCs, mortgages, everything to it. Then, every transaction is tracked on one page. You can view charts of your expenditure. You can tag each expense as "DH's frivolous" for e.g. :D

At the end of the moth you can view a pie chart of how much of your monthly income has gone where. (percentage)

Would that work?

Good luck!

[edurnemk]

I would use debit cards instead of credit cards for your individual accounts for wants. That way you know he can't spend more than the amount agreed or run up a large debt.

DH and I do use CC's for personal expenses but we pay off the entire balance at the end of the month. For our regular expenses (groceries, bills, etc) we use debit. We're both pretty frugal so it hasn't been an issue.

[gatorsmom]

I haven't read all the responses so this might be repetitive but what about Visa debit cards? I don't know where you can get them, only that you can. They can be used anywhere a Visa can be used. I would assume they can them be used online.

If I were you, I"d take away all DH's credit cards and get him Visa debit cards. And I'd change the bank accounts so that since you are the frugal one and the one paying the bills, you can use the bank account for that. But I think the key to making this all possible is having that sit down talk with your DH first. Talk about retirement goals. Talk about current spending patterns. Talk about where you will end up if you stay on the current spending track your family is on. Once he sees it all concrete in front of him and agrees to this, then right then and there take his credit card away and give him a prepaid Visa card or debit card. Right then and there have him sign the paperwork to change your bank account statuses. Get it all ready and make the changes at the same time you agree to them. And then occasionally remind him going forward why you are doing this so the importance of these changes doesn't ware off each time he sees something he REALLY wants.

Anyway, this is how I am able to make big changes in our household. My husband can be so resistant to ideas that are uncomfortable or tedious for him so I really have to make a big production, drive the idea home, and make the changes immediately or the importance of it has worn off by the following day.

Whatever tactic you try, I hope you can find a way that works for your family. :)

[niccig]

I would actually do it from the other direction. I would not phrase it as controlling spending or budgeting for wants. I would create a budget with two sections, necessities (groceries, mortgage, gas, insurance, etc.) and then mutual financial goals (emergency fund, retirement, school tuition, etc.).

After the financial goals are met, well, I would let the money fall where it may. My DH is not a spendthrift, but there is no way he would agree to a monthly budget for his interests/lunch, etc. Some months he spends little to nothing and some months he spends a lot. But he also won't overspend vs what we agree on. Our sort of unofficial rule as a couple is any purchase over $100 we discuss first. Less than that, it's fair game.

So maybe after the budget is set, perhaps try to arrive at a $ amount above which you will discuss things as a couple. And then try to let the other stuff go. This was really hard for me initially in our marriage because I came from a family with very little. So a lot of what DH wanted to buy seemed very frivolous or unimportant to me. Whereas he grew up comfortable and these things seemed normal to him. It was probably a good 5-10 years into marriage before I became more comfortable with being more "frivolous" in my spending.

Beth, I agree with making sure all goals are met and then saying anything over x amount we have to discuss - but problem is that $100 won't be enough and DH will have to talk to me all the time. Plus $100 here and $100 there and it all adds up. He spent much more than that on clothes this weekend, but he won't spend anymore on clothes for several months.

DH is more willing to have less savings - I think I'll have to start with small increase on what we're currently saving and over time save more - it worked with our emergency fund. We agreed to compromised amount, less than I wanted, more than he wanted, and then we had layoffs at his work, and he said we should have more in the account - it's now more than what I wanted to have.

My DH is exactly like yours in that he was raised with more money and what I consider frivolous, he considers normal. How did you have the conversation with your DH about the money limit - anything over $100 and we talk about it? DH was a bachelor for a long time and used to have lots more discretionary money, that's not the case now, and it's our savings that are taking a hit - but DH feels like "OK, we just save less" rather than cut back a little on discretionary spending. I don't know how to make it clear that it's our future his cutting back on and I don't want to be working into my 70's because DH wants to buy wine,clothes, restaurants etc now.

[niccig]

We don't use credit cards anymore. We have tried to set aside a certain amount every month for both of us that is "blow" money (this is a Dave Ramsey idea). We take it out in cash, and do whatever we want with it. I always spend all of mine- DH doesn't, and sometimes he saves it, and sometimes he gives some to me. :) When I buy something online from my blow money, I use the debit card and then pay the bank account back the cash. If your DH is a credit card guy, it would be hard to switch to cash, I think, especially for online purchases- but with a credit card it's very easy to go over the agreed upon limit. Unless you got a visa gift card every month or something like that.

How did you have the conversation about the "blow" money? I'm willing to give it a try, but have to convince DH to try as well.

[niccig]

It sounds like he might be too resistant to keeping track of his wants as well as limiting them at this point. Would you be open to suggesting that he just keep track of them at this point, but not worry more than usual about limiting them? This could get him in the habit of tracking them, so it might be easier to later combine that with limiting them. Also you'd both get a clear picture of how much he is actually spending on stuff like that. And it could even help to limit him on his own; I've read that people who start keeping track of their eating without any additional diet plans generally eat fewer calories and healthier foods than before they started tracking it - I could totally see that happen with keeping track of expenses.

Not exactly what you were asking for, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case it was helpful.

I think you're right - I need to track first and then have DH see where it's all going. When he was paying the bills, I had no idea how much I was spending at Target, once I started the bill paying, I cut way back on household purchases.

I should just start here...track it, have meeting with him to go over it, so he can see where it's going. I want DH to come up with some ideas on what to spend and what to save - I do know he needs to be onboard for it to work. Maybe if he sees that we spend x amount on clothes, he'll question things- but I'll have to break it down - DS's clothes, my clothes, his clothes.

[niccig]

Have you tried using financial software like mint.com? It's free, very easy to set up.

You can connect all your bank accounts, CCs, mortgages, everything to it. Then, every transaction is tracked on one page. You can view charts of your expenditure. You can tag each expense as "DH's frivolous" for e.g. :D

At the end of the moth you can view a pie chart of how much of your monthly income has gone where. (percentage)

Would that work?

Good luck!

We do have something similar, but I wasnt' great about entering transactions. Does mint. automatically connect to bank account, mortgage etc, or do you need to go in and download and then assign to certain category.

I do think I need to do this, to track what's been happening and then we can go from there.
How often do you go over your transactions? weekly?

[niccig]

I would use debit cards instead of credit cards for your individual accounts for wants. That way you know he can't spend more than the amount agreed or run up a large debt.

DH and I do use CC's for personal expenses but we pay off the entire balance at the end of the month. For our regular expenses (groceries, bills, etc) we use debit. We're both pretty frugal so it hasn't been an issue.


We do pay off our CC, so no balance. BUT, all our money is in connected check-savings accounts, so if one month things are more, there's less being saved that month. I want to stop that.

I think I need to get savings into another account, so you can look at it and say "hey, we've got a tonne of money," and then we have to agree on how much goes to that saving account from each pay. Once that is done, we can look at what's left and work with that amount.

[niccig]

I haven't read all the responses so this might be repetitive but what about Visa debit cards? I don't know where you can get them, only that you can. They can be used anywhere a Visa can be used. I would assume they can them be used online.

If I were you, I"d take away all DH's credit cards and get him Visa debit cards. And I'd change the bank accounts so that since you are the frugal one and the one paying the bills, you can use the bank account for that. But I think the key to making this all possible is having that sit down talk with your DH first. Talk about retirement goals. Talk about current spending patterns. Talk about where you will end up if you stay on the current spending track your family is on. Once he sees it all concrete in front of him and agrees to this, then right then and there take his credit card away and give him a prepaid Visa card or debit card. Right then and there have him sign the paperwork to change your bank account statuses. Get it all ready and make the changes at the same time you agree to them. And then occasionally remind him going forward why you are doing this so the importance of these changes doesn't ware off each time he sees something he REALLY wants.

Anyway, this is how I am able to make big changes in our household. My husband can be so resistant to ideas that are uncomfortable or tedious for him so I really have to make a big production, drive the idea home, and make the changes immediately or the importance of it has worn off by the following day.

Whatever tactic you try, I hope you can find a way that works for your family. :)

Lisa we do have Visa debit cards with our bank account - it's our regular card for the ATM.

I do need to sit down with DH and lay it all out. I think the crux of the problem is that he thinks we do save enough for retirement. He is not willing to give up a little now for use later on. He's an eternal optimist that thinks we'll be fine. BUT, he has been shaken with the recession. He's had 2 paycuts, he acknowledges that his pay will not keep increasing and that he won't be able to retire like older colleagues. There's no one in his work over 57, he says he'll have to transition into something else then, current older colleagues have all retired at 57 or so, but they had nice pay increases to help save.

Maybe I can use that as an arguing point - if we save more now, he will be able to retire at 57. I'll still be working, that's always been the plan as I'm younger and do work that doesn't have an age limit,but I don't earn the kind of money DH does.

[vonfirmath]

I haven't read all the responses so this might be repetitive but what about Visa debit cards? I don't know where you can get them, only that you can. They can be used anywhere a Visa can be used. I would assume they can them be used online.

If I were you, I"d take away all DH's credit cards and get him Visa debit cards. And I'd change the bank accounts so that since you are the frugal one and the one paying the bills, you can use the bank account for that. But I think the key to making this all possible is having that sit down talk with your DH first. Talk about retirement goals. Talk about current spending patterns. Talk about where you will end up if you stay on the current spending track your family is on. Once he sees it all concrete in front of him and agrees to this, then right then and there take his credit card away and give him a prepaid Visa card or debit card. Right then and there have him sign the paperwork to change your bank account statuses. Get it all ready and make the changes at the same time you agree to them. And then occasionally remind him going forward why you are doing this so the importance of these changes doesn't ware off each time he sees something he REALLY wants.

Anyway, this is how I am able to make big changes in our household. My husband can be so resistant to ideas that are uncomfortable or tedious for him so I really have to make a big production, drive the idea home, and make the changes immediately or the importance of it has worn off by the following day.

Whatever tactic you try, I hope you can find a way that works for your family. :)

Except I would not "take his credit card away" -- a parent takes their child's credit card away. Partners discuss things and come to mutually agreeable priorities. Your husband would be very legitimate to get upset if you start treating him as your child.

[wolverine2]

How did you have the conversation about the "blow" money? I'm willing to give it a try, but have to convince DH to try as well.

For us, it was a mutual discussion since we needed desperately to have our finances better in order. In our family, I pay all the bills, but I also am much more likely to spend the money. So I decided what I thought was a reasonable amount (within our budget) to spend every month, and DH gets the same amount (though he would be happy with less). It allows me to spend without tracking, which can get annoying sometimes, but I do only have a certain amount so it keeps me from over doing it, since I have to decide whether I really want something, or whether I might want something more later in the month. It hasn't been a foolproof system, but we're trying... and it did help me to feel like I had some freedom in what to spend, but restraint within that freedom.

[YouAreTheFocus]

We have 3 bank accounts with direct deposit from our paychecks. Our joint account gets the bulk of the paychecks, and all of our household stuff it paid from the checking account (bills, groceries, mortgage, baby's stuff, etc), while savings is for larger joint items (vacations, new computer, couch, etc).

Then my husband and I each have our own check/sav accounts, which each get something like $200/month--might be $300, don't remember. This is for any "just for you" items, like clothes, video games, laptop. So at Target the other day, we sent all our house stuff through and paid from the joint, and then my husband paid for his video game seperately. Sometimes if we are each getting something that's about the same price, we'll "treat" ourselves from the joint.

We also have a lunch rule (we both work out of the home)--you can buy any lunch stuff you want from the supermarket (pd by joint), but if you decide to eat out, that's from your own account.

We don't carry any balance on credit cards, or have any other debt.

[egoldber]

How did you have the conversation with your DH about the money limit - anything over $100 and we talk about it? DH was a bachelor for a long time and used to have lots more discretionary money, that's not the case now, and it's our savings that are taking a hit - but DH feels like "OK, we just save less" rather than cut back a little on discretionary spending. I don't know how to make it clear that it's our future his cutting back on and I don't want to be working into my 70's because DH wants to buy wine,clothes, restaurants etc now.

Well, we didn't really talk about it, it was just kind of how things evolved. :)

But my point was if you put the saving in the budget FIRST, then you don't need to argue about the other things. Part of it was I needed to let go and be OK with him spending money on things I would not choose to spend money on. I have my things (my spendy haircuts) and he has him (random gadgets). but if either got to the point of being a problem, then we would talk about it.

[gatorsmom]

Except I would not "take his credit card away" -- a parent takes their child's credit card away. Partners discuss things and come to mutually agreeable priorities. Your husband would be very legitimate to get upset if you start treating him as your child.

Well, I didnt' mean it like she should slap his hand, put him on a time out and take it away. Rephrase it however you like but she and he should come to an agreement that it's in the family's best interest if he uses his Visa debit card instead of credit card. Frankly, it sounds like if he doesn't relinquesh his card, he'll sabotage all their plans when his debit card runs out and he sees a pair of jeans he "just has to have". Sometimes adults act like children. It would probably be in their best interest for him to give up his credit card. And he might find that he prefers not having the temptation of a credit card that's easily available.

[mamicka]

I think you need to have an explicit reason why you want him to change his habits. Is it to increase savings (I think that's what you said)? Is it to spend more money somewhere else (charitable giving)? Then put together an illustration of the numbers to show your point. Like outline how much money you will have in savings with your current plan vs if you save more. Hopefully he'd be persuaded. Then you could come up with a plan together to accomplish that. I just see this as fraught with resentment in the long run unless it's something that you do/plan together.

[elektra]

Nicci-
I met with that financial advisor. It has been a challenge implementing some of the stuff he suggested.
A few homework items for us:
-Do auto transfers to a different account for different spending categories. This is sort of like a budget without having a budget. DH can spend his portion however he wants, but the auto-transfer part is key.

Do weekly check-in's with each other about our financial situation. This was to prevent my nagging or random mentions of spending that would only lead to both of us getting pissed off at each other.

Per the finance guy, I am the CFO, and DH must listen to me. Not that he always has to agree with me, and he is able to suggest things, but I am in charge. This may not work for everyone, and the guy did stress that DH needs to get more involved. However for now, the weekly meetings is how we are to communicate.

Honestly, getting DH to agree to look at the budget that the guy planned out for us was half the battle.

[niccig]

For us, it was a mutual discussion since we needed desperately to have our finances better in order. In our family, I pay all the bills, but I also am much more likely to spend the money. So I decided what I thought was a reasonable amount (within our budget) to spend every month, and DH gets the same amount (though he would be happy with less).

This is what I need, DH to come to the realisation, so it isn't me telling him what to do.



We have 3 bank accounts with direct deposit from our paychecks. Our joint account gets the bulk of the paychecks, and all of our household stuff it paid from the checking account (bills, groceries, mortgage, baby's stuff, etc), while savings is for larger joint items (vacations, new computer, couch, etc).

I can see this working for us as well. Thanks.
We don't carry any balance on credit cards, or have any other debt.

[niccig]

Well, I didnt' mean it like she should slap his hand, put him on a time out and take it away. Rephrase it however you like but she and he should come to an agreement that it's in the family's best interest if he uses his Visa debit card instead of credit card. Frankly, it sounds like if he doesn't relinquesh his card, he'll sabotage all their plans when his debit card runs out and he sees a pair of jeans he "just has to have". Sometimes adults act like children. It would probably be in their best interest for him to give up his credit card. And he might find that he prefers not having the temptation of a credit card that's easily available.

I'm of two minds of this. DH has come a long way with his handling of money since we've met. He might be fine with watching credit card, if it was just one card and not mixed in with other house purchases. I do suppose there is only one way to find it... I would only do this if we both had access to each other's accounts. I do all the bill paying and frankly, DH has no idea what WE spend, let alone what he spends. And I think we need to start working that out first.

I set up Mint.com this morning and nearly have it all done back to August - it really didn't take too long. I like that it'll do the transactions daily and email us the end of the week. I think seeing it all set out with pie graphs etc will give us a starting point for the conversation. I've being putting off the conversation as didn't want to deal, but I feel ready for it now.

[niccig]

But my point was if you put the saving in the budget FIRST, then you don't need to argue about the other things. Part of it was I needed to let go and be OK with him spending money on things I would not choose to spend money on. I have my things (my spendy haircuts) and he has him (random gadgets). but if either got to the point of being a problem, then we would talk about it.

This is what I hope for.
I know we can't agree on the amount we need to save. But if I can get him to save a little more and then over time increase that - baby steps, I think we can get there. DH is an optimist - everything will be OK. I'm the worried and pessimist and want to make sure we have a plan. I've considered seeing a financial planner that can tell him in stark terms the kind of retirement we're looking out with current level of savings. I also think I'll lighten up if we increase savings more, less worry when you know you've got things covered - I had to fight DH to set up emergency fund a few years ago, and he's so relieved we have it now, so that's an eg. to use.

I should say that we have done OK - we have emergency fund, we have retirment accounts, we don't carry any debt, we don't live paycheck to paycheck, but we're also have no real plan. We need to get on the same page with things.

[niccig]

Then you could come up with a plan together to accomplish that. I just see this as fraught with resentment in the long run unless it's something that you do/plan together.

I totally agree. We have to do this together. I also don't want to direct the conversation, with I think we should do x,y, z.

I'm hoping that tracking expenses with mint.com will give us a starting point to that conversation - we have x amount coming in, x amount going out and only saving this. What do we want to do, how do we want to manage all of this.

[niccig]

Nicci-
I met with that financial advisor. It has been a challenge implementing some of the stuff he suggested.
A few homework items for us:
-Do auto transfers to a different account for different spending categories. This is sort of like a budget without having a budget. DH can spend his portion however he wants, but the auto-transfer part is key.

Do weekly check-in's with each other about our financial situation. This was to prevent my nagging or random mentions of spending that would only lead to both of us getting pissed off at each other.

Per the finance guy, I am the CFO, and DH must listen to me. Not that he always has to agree with me, and he is able to suggest things, but I am in charge. This may not work for everyone, and the guy did stress that DH needs to get more involved. However for now, the weekly meetings is how we are to communicate.

Honestly, getting DH to agree to look at the budget that the guy planned out for us was half the battle.

I've been meaning to ask how that went? Do you think it was worth it?

We've got similar situation over here. My DH is starting to talk more about finances and plans. He is reading the Elizabeth Warren book and I asked him today if I should renew it (library book) or buy our own copy he said "I'm not sure yet." So, not convinced, but we're talking more about this issue rather than fighting, so that's good

Is the auto transfer you're amount of money that you can "blow" on whatever you want? I might need a 3rd party to suggest that for DH to be willing to try.

I can see that if DH isn't onboard totally, there will be issues. A friend and her DH agreed to set amount per year for his hobby and he went over by 3x (and it was a lot of money to start with.) He hid it from her, lied, went behind her back etc. DH heard all about this and was appalled at the DH's behaviour - I think he also knows I would kill him in similar situation. I could not tolerate the dishonesty Success does depend on the other spouse buying into the plan!

THis might also be baby steps. First track money, then start talking about future plans and what that will entail for savings, coming to agreement on goals and then agreement on what to do now to get there. It might also be me being patient with small increase in savings at first, and then increasing more over time as we get plans worked out.

[alexmommy]

First off, good luck, $ talks can be challenging. Does DH see a problem with how things are now? Is he willing/wanting to change? I know my DH is a mule unless things are his idea.

With budgeting, we have a detailed budget/spending plan (I'm an Excel nerd) that gives us $ to spend on various categories. DH, DS & I have separate clothing categories. (Otherwise I'd have no clothes & DH would have 10 suits!) We also have a monthly allowance/blow money for which we are not at all responsible to each other for. We can spend it monthly (me), or save up and then blow it (DH). Anything left over rolls over to next month, if we overspend, then we get that much less next month.

You might try tracking DH's expenses for a month or so, and explain that you see he needs/wants this much per month, so you are going to pencil it in and not nag him about it. Ask him if that amount is too much or too little. (Maybe he'll agree to cut back a little once he sees how much he's spending?) That may give him a buy in, and permission/freedom to spend money. If he only uses one credit card/debit card for his blow money, he can easily go online and track it. Once you are reassured that he too cares about his spending and realizes there is a limit you may be more comfortable 'allowing' him to spend, and perhaps it will be more comfortable for both of you. Then, after discussing retirement goals, work out/compromise an amount to save. Once DH gets on board he may choose to become less frivolous and save more, but if he's like most men I know, if he feels like this is being put upon him he'll do his own thing anyway.

Dave Ramsey's books are good reads. Or maybe you two could go to one of his live events?

Good luck!

[gatorsmom]

I'm of two minds of this. DH has come a long way with his handling of money since we've met. He might be fine with watching credit card, if it was just one card and not mixed in with other house purchases. I do suppose there is only one way to find it... I would only do this if we both had access to each other's accounts. I do all the bill paying and frankly, DH has no idea what WE spend, let alone what he spends. And I think we need to start working that out first.

I set up Mint.com this morning and nearly have it all done back to August - it really didn't take too long. I like that it'll do the transactions daily and email us the end of the week. I think seeing it all set out with pie graphs etc will give us a starting point for the conversation. I've being putting off the conversation as didn't want to deal, but I feel ready for it now.

Hope I didn't come off as insulting your husband. I just know from personal experience that there are certain habits that are harder to control than others. I really think we all have them to differing degrees. We have no beer in our house because DH would have a hard time not drinking it. And we have very little chocolate in our house because I have a hard time leaving it alone. It's so easy for me on Monday to be motivated to eat healthier, exercise more and stay away from sweets. But by Thursday I'm already saying, "oh, one more little piece won't hurt." Really, it can happen to anyone. Lots of us could use a little help when it comes to self- control!

[sste]

Nicci, like Elektra's planner I have had great success setting up separate accounts . . . I have been doing this for years after I read some research that people save more into separate savings accounts that are NAMED things like "Vacation," "Emergency Fund," and "Mad Money." You can do this via ING Direct which allows you to set up multiple accounts with names (they will all list under your main account when you log in) and transfer money from your primary checking account into each individual account. The only downside to this plan is that you will get a separate yearly tax form on each account . . . we have never found it to be a big deal and our accountant has never complained.

Now, I haven't used this feature or looked into it but I am wondering about creating an ING checking account (dif. from savings account on ing) and using the ING debit card for each of your mad money purchases?
http://home.ingdirect.com/products/products.asp?s=ElectricOrange

I don't know for sure if this has the multiple accounts feature but I bet that it does. Or if you decided to couple it with savings accounts I bet it will all list up together when you log in. Just phone ING, they generally have good customer service and their whole mantra is convenience and easy user interface.

As for your DH getting on board, I wish I had a magic bullet. My DH is not a real spender but we do disagree about money. The one thing that has worked for me in making any headway on differences is to say to DH, "let's put aside for a minute how much money is the "right" amount to save . . . the bottom line is that what we are currently doing is making me stressed and anxious and I am not enjoying our otherwise great life together as much as I could. I hate feeling this way. Can we come up with a plan." When it is framed this way most DHs (and I am confident yours is in this group) really hate to think of their partner being upset.

[tarahsolazy]

I think getting your savings out of your checking account is a really good idea. We have a separate money market account for emergency fund and short term savings, and when we were actively building it up, I set up an auto-transfer from the checking account. So, that money disappeared, it wasn't there to spend. Same thing with retirement and college savings, etc.

I think a financial advisor would be a great idea as well. I was vaguely concerned that we weren't doing the 'right' things, financially, and always concerned about spending. After having our guy work with us, I know we're saving appropriately for our goals, and that we can spend whatever else is around, if we want. It makes me far less worried. My DH is a SAHD, and it was important for us to know we had retirement covered, on just the one income.

[kbud]

We do have something similar, but I wasnt' great about entering transactions. Does mint. automatically connect to bank account, mortgage etc, or do you need to go in and download and then assign to certain category.

I do think I need to do this, to track what's been happening and then we can go from there.
How often do you go over your transactions? weekly?

Once you set all the accounts up Mint does it automatically! It even e-mails you weekly updates and alerts if you go over. I put my e-mail and dh's e-mail in it and he sees the updates too. It's worked great for us. I also use the Itouch/Iphone app. It's all free too.

My dh now doesn't have to ask me how much allowance he has for the month he logs on and looks. There is often a couple day delay though depending on how fast it posts. But I was having a hard time entering all transactions in other software myself.

We use all credit cards and track them like debit though paying off every month.

I just started using virtual envelopes and love it. It's an app for my Itouch and I enter categories and monthly budget amounts. when I buy groceries and just enter the food amount and it is deducted and I automatically know what I have left. So no matter how I pay, cash, credit, debit, I enter the amount and know what is left.

Maybe some sort of app like that for him to enter what he has each month and just subtract what is spent regardless what funding source is used.

I didn't read all your posts but it sounded a bit complicated. We stick to easy and simple, 1 joint checking, 2 joint credit cards and we each have an ATM card for the joint account. I'm lucky though, DH never takes $ out without telling me. I also manage everything. But Mint makes it easy for us to look at what we are both doing. Once it's set up it auto puts transactions into budget categories you've set up. I just log on briefly each day to look at it. The virtual envelopes though have been wonderful for me! I actually finally stayed on budget for the first 2 months I've used it! We won't talk about this month as we were on vacation in mexico!

Good luck. Start small and simple. I used to try and make things too complex and found the simpler the better.

[niccig]

Hope I didn't come off as insulting your husband.

No offense taken. It's why I'm of two minds. Part of me thinks it would be fine, but another part isn't so sure.

[niccig]

Nicci, like Elektra's planner I have had great success setting up separate accounts . . . I have been doing this for years after I read some research that people save more into separate savings accounts that are NAMED things like "Vacation," "Emergency Fund," and "Mad Money." You can do this via ING Direct which allows you to set up multiple accounts with names (they will all list under your main account when you log in) and transfer money from your primary checking account into each individual account. The only downside to this plan is that you will get a separate yearly tax form on each account . . . we have never found it to be a big deal and our accountant has never complained.

Now, I haven't used this feature or looked into it but I am wondering about creating an ING checking account (dif. from savings account on ing) and using the ING debit card for each of your mad money purchases?
http://home.ingdirect.com/products/products.asp?s=ElectricOrange

I don't know for sure if this has the multiple accounts feature but I bet that it does. Or if you decided to couple it with savings accounts I bet it will all list up together when you log in. Just phone ING, they generally have good customer service and their whole mantra is convenience and easy user interface.

As for your DH getting on board, I wish I had a magic bullet. My DH is not a real spender but we do disagree about money. The one thing that has worked for me in making any headway on differences is to say to DH, "let's put aside for a minute how much money is the "right" amount to save . . . the bottom line is that what we are currently doing is making me stressed and anxious and I am not enjoying our otherwise great life together as much as I could. I hate feeling this way. Can we come up with a plan." When it is framed this way most DHs (and I am confident yours is in this group) really hate to think of their partner being upset.

I will set up the ING accounts - perfect way to keep track on savings for different things.

I love how you expressed your need to come up with a plan. I did something similar with our emergency fund, but it was a raging fight and DH gave in to appease me. I'd like to avoid that now. I know I need to also keep this positive, let's look forward, what can we do to deal together....

[niccig]

I think a financial advisor would be a great idea as well. I was vaguely concerned that we weren't doing the 'right' things, financially, and always concerned about spending. After having our guy work with us, I know we're saving appropriately for our goals, and that we can spend whatever else is around, if we want. It makes me far less worried. My DH is a SAHD, and it was important for us to know we had retirement covered, on just the one income.

I agree that I think we need to talk to someone, even if we do work things out together. I may be overly worrying and creating more stress than necessary. I'll bring that up as well with DH - more of a "let's see where we are". I'm also keeping my therapist up my sleeve for a joint conversation if we need help.

[niccig]

My dh now doesn't have to ask me how much allowance he has for the month he logs on and looks. There is often a couple day delay though depending on how fast it posts. But I was having a hard time entering all transactions in other software myself.

We use all credit cards and track them like debit though paying off every month.

I just started using virtual envelopes and love it. It's an app for my Itouch and I enter categories and monthly budget amounts. when I buy groceries and just enter the food amount and it is deducted and I automatically know what I have left. So no matter how I pay, cash, credit, debit, I enter the amount and know what is left.

Maybe some sort of app like that for him to enter what he has each month and just subtract what is spent regardless what funding source is used.

I didn't read all your posts but it sounded a bit complicated.

Good luck. Start small and simple. I used to try and make things too complex and found the simpler the better.

I did put DH on for the email alerts, so he can see how much has already been sepnt. I do hope he'll log on to check himself at some point. It was pretty easy to do the last 3 months, and now I'll log on daily to update the few new transactions.

Virtual envelopes that will definitely help me. I've just found out how much I spend on groceries :bag Way more money than I think I've been spending. So all of this is a good exercise for me as well.

I agree with keeping things simple..we'll start with reviewing last 3 months spending trend and see how that conversation goes

[niccig]

I just started using virtual envelopes and love it. It's an app for my Itouch and I enter categories and monthly budget amounts. .

Which app do you use?
Thanks

[kbud]

Which app do you use?
Thanks

It's called envelopes and it's only $.99. Very easy and simple but very effective.

[niccig]

Thanks, I'll give that a try and see if I can stay under budget for the groceries.