EBF and hungry DS

[LD92599]

DS is 4 months; he's downing his bottles at daycare (I leave 3, usually 4-6 ounces each). He's also stopped STTN and wakes up a few times, obviously hungry.

He needs more! I've been taking alot of fenugreek and if anything, i'm producing LESS! WTH!? Has anyone else noticed this? I used to get 6 ounces first thing in the AM and now i'm struggling to get 4.

He hasn't had any formula and i'd like to hold off on that as long as possible. I managed to BF DS1 til 13 months and I want to attempt to the same for DS2.

I WOTH FT.

I have a script for domperidone but got it as a "just in case I want to fill it, i have it."

Obviously I need to give him bigger bottles during the day but then that's not going to match my supply either and will mean dipping into the freezer stash (and i realize that's what its there for).

We're going to have 6 days coming up of zero bottles and all nursing, think that could help with my supply? I certainly hope so! I'm thinking of stopping the fenugreek to see if that helps too.

Not even sure what i'm asking.....just rambling, or any BTDT?!

[wendibird22]

Could it be a growth spurt? If so, then yes, nursing will increase your supply. I would think that you are pumping a bit less in the a.m. because LO is waking at night. When DD2 STTN I get far more milk at my first pumping session than I do if she wakes up.

Can you add a pumping session at night? I did this for a little while. After DD2 went to bed I'd pump. I'd get maybe 2oz, but I found it helped up my supply a little during the day and of course every 2 days I'd have an extra bottle.

FWIW, DD2 who is 10mos, still gets 3 4oz bottles at daycare from 7:30am-4:30pm. There were a few times when they dipped into the freezer stash I have there because of growth spurts but she always went back to the 3 bottles. I added solids at 6mos.

[wellyes]

DS is the same age, HUGE growth spurt. I am so tuckered out I can't even tell you.

[BabyBearsMom]

We had something similar happen at about 4.5 months, and our ped recommended introducing a little rice cereal even though it was early. We added a rice cereal meal (just 1 TBSP or Cereal with 1 oz of milk) in the morning, and she did great with it. We still gave her the same amount of milk but added this meal to it. She started STTN again and everything went back to normal.

[catsnkid]

the 6 days together ought to help.. If it were me and I ran out of my stash I would go to formula for supplementation.. Luckily I ran out around the same time as we went to solids anyway..

[LD92599]

the 6 days together ought to help.. If it were me and I ran out of my stash I would go to formula for supplementation.. Luckily I ran out around the same time as we went to solids anyway..

Fortunately i have plenty of stash, so i might as well suck it up and use some! I'll probably do that next week (I know i have to the first day back from vacation because I won't have my reserve from the previous day).

[alirebco]

Ditto the growth spurt. Also after you nurse, try power pumping - pump for 5-10 minutes even though it seems like you're dry. It will help increase your supply.

You're also probably hitting the 4 month wakeful period as well and that might be why he's also waking at night. I would just nurse him in the middle of the night to keep your supply up.

[Katigre]

You need to add in some regular night nursing sessions - that has a bigger impact on supply than pumping or even daytime nursing b/c of how prolactin levels are secreted at night. I would try to nurse every 2 hours in the evening and then dream feed him before you go to bed, and then ideally one other feeding around 2-3am and another nursing in the morning before he goes to daycare. Doing this for two weeks will boost your supply and you may even notice you have more milk during the day for pumping too.

The difference in my milk supply (nursing at night) and my friends' milk supplies (not nursing at night) was quite significant by the time our babies were 6 months old.

[TwinFoxes]

One thing that would help me when I felt things were lagging (in addition to taking More Milk Plus which I couldn't have done without at certain points) was going back to the basics. I would make sure the room was warm enough, that I drank plenty of water, including drinking water while pumping, I massaged my breasts before hand, I put a mental image of DDs in my head while pumping. All the little tips my LC told me, I put to use. It seemed to help. Good luck!

[almostmom]

My kids both drank bottles that were 6-8 oz around that time because of a growth spurt. It was hard, because it was right when they were starting daycare. But they drank it and needed it, and weren't hungry with that (no specific night feeding for me).

In terms of your supply, I can't offer advice there as it wasn't a huge problem for me. I did have tons of mild with DS (could pump 15 oz at my first work pump of the day around 10am) and didn't supplement until I weaned at 7 months. With DD I had a bit less milk (and she was a big eater), so I supplemented a bit. Sometimes a bottle a day at daycare, sometimes she didn't need it. But it in the scheme of things, it's so little formula, that I didn't worry about it. And it took the pumping crazy stress off of me, which was really nice.

Just putting in my opinion that if you have to supplement a little, it doesn't have to affect your supply (especially if you still pump at the same rate), and doesn't have to be a bad thing for your baby either.

[Momto1]

4-6 oz bottles are way too big for a BF baby. 4-oz may be ok, but I'd be very hesistant to go any bigger than that. You can work on getting down to smaller bottles by bringing them down .5 oz at a time until you're closer to 3 or 4 oz bottles.

How many hours are the two of you apart each day? The general rule of thumb is 1 oz per hour that you're away from the baby. So if you're apart for 10 hours while you're at work, he should get ~ 10 oz total (maybe two 3-oz bottles and one 4-oz). Use this to figure out how big his bottles should be: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html

Is your daycare provider pacing feeds and using slow flow nipples? Check out this link: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html it has a little bit of information on how to bottle feed a BF baby. A lot of times, people think that a baby is super hungry, when in reality, they just want to complete the nursing cycle. A nursing baby will often drink at the breast until they are full and then finish the session with some comfort nursing. They can't do that with the bottle, so pacing feeds and offering a pacifier after the bottle is done is a good way to help the baby do the comfort sucking.

4 months is a typical wakeful period for little ones, so even though it may seem like he's waking because he's hungry, it's very likely he's waking because of the huge developmental leaps he's taking right now. http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html

Lastly, even though you have a large freezer stash, I wouldn't pull from it. You'll be at risk for tricking your body into making less than it needs. Another good link about freezer stash: http://www.workandpump.com/freezerstash.htm



p.s. sorry for all the KM links. BF and working out of the home is something I'm passionate about. I've found that so many moms give up on pumping because of the misinformation they're getting about bottle size. I've been lucky enough to never have had to use formula, even though I work full-time out of the home. I owe so much of that success to Kellymom and the other BF supportive research out there. KM even has a pumping moms forum: http://forum.kellymom.net/ where you can get tons of support and information.

[LD92599]

I'm glad I finally put my thoughts to paper so to speak by starting this thread! Lots of things for me to think about. I definitely do not want to resort to formula and want to continue nursing full time.

Great links (momto1 - thank you!!) and i'll read through them in the coming days.

i need to see which nipples are on the avent bottles, its the box of 5 bottles from Target, i think it's a size 1 or 2? I'll look for slower flow nipples tomorrow.

I fed him a small bottle tonight after nursing (2 ounces) which he sucked down and then my usual 10pm pumping (which pretty much replaced the 2 ounces).

I'm bookmarking this!

[brittone2]

4-6 oz bottles are way too big for a BF baby. 4-oz may be ok, but I'd be very hesistant to go any bigger than that. You can work on getting down to smaller bottles by bringing them down .5 oz at a time until you're closer to 3 or 4 oz bottles.

How many hours are the two of you apart each day? The general rule of thumb is 1 oz per hour that you're away from the baby. So if you're apart for 10 hours while you're at work, he should get ~ 10 oz total (maybe two 3-oz bottles and one 4-oz). Use this to figure out how big his bottles should be: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html

Is your daycare provider pacing feeds and using slow flow nipples? Check out this link: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html it has a little bit of information on how to bottle feed a BF baby. A lot of times, people think that a baby is super hungry, when in reality, they just want to complete the nursing cycle. A nursing baby will often drink at the breast until they are full and then finish the session with some comfort nursing. They can't do that with the bottle, so pacing feeds and offering a pacifier after the bottle is done is a good way to help the baby do the comfort sucking.

4 months is a typical wakeful period for little ones, so even though it may seem like he's waking because he's hungry, it's very likely he's waking because of the huge developmental leaps he's taking right now. http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html

Lastly, even though you have a large freezer stash, I wouldn't pull from it. You'll be at risk for tricking your body into making less than it needs. Another good link about freezer stash: http://www.workandpump.com/freezerstash.htm



p.s. sorry for all the KM links. BF and working out of the home is something I'm passionate about. I've found that so many moms give up on pumping because of the misinformation they're getting about bottle size. I've been lucky enough to never have had to use formula, even though I work full-time out of the home. I owe so much of that success to Kellymom and the other BF supportive research out there. KM even has a pumping moms forum: http://forum.kellymom.net/ where you can get tons of support and information.

I'm not a pumping mom, but this is an awesome post. Seriously.

[LD92599]

I am getting dom filled today, i'll use it for the 30 days and see what happens. For the first time the bottle i pumped in the am, i actually need to send for the same day, both yesterday and today (and dipped into freezer stash for yesterday too). Booooooooooo.

i will update after I use the dom for a few days.