DS2 is SOOO negative - how to motivate/change attitude?

[Meatball Mommie]

Background:
It's probably more noticeable to me since DS1 is an incredibly upbead, positive, outgoing, social child whom everyone seems to like immediately (kids and adults), but I'm having issues with DS2's general life attitude.

I swear he wakes up grumpy, and not just "not enough sleep" grumpy. It's like he's already decided it's going to be a bad day and things won't be good for him. Whenever you ask him to do something, even if it's something he likes, you get "I don't want to do that, it's stupid". He crosses his arms on his chest and gives you this grumpy/mean look. Or if you ask how his day at school was, it's just "bad". Honestly, he can be such a jerk to other people (even grandpa/grandma, me, DH, and his best friend).

I know from his teachers at school that he's more an "observer" type learning wise, but it's getting ridiculous. Sometimes we get somewhere and he decides he doesn't want to do xyz (skating lessons, play at the park, go to the pet store) and I have no idea why...maybe the stars aren't aligned correctly?

We keep talking to him about being negative, trying new things, going with the flow but I don't feel like it's getting us anywhere. My latest discussion was how he needs to say to himself every morning when he wakes up "Today is a GREAT day. I will have a good day" (I used a little Tony the Tiger to make it funny for him).

Does anyone have any suggestions/tactics to help him be more positive - I feel like he goes through his days (not so much at school but outside of it) watching other kids have fun and pouting on the sidelines. I just want him to be happier!!!

TIA

[pinkmomagain]

My oldest can be a negative thinker (dh too). I've started this book and it seems helpful

http://www.amazon.com/Freeing-Your-Child-Negative-Thinking/dp/0738211850/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288872775&sr=8-1

I don't have too much advice to give except that keep on top of it. We don't want these negative thinking patterns to become too engrained (sp?). To change them takes alot of work and repetition, but I do see an improvement in my dd just be doing similar things that you are.

GL!

[egoldber]

That book looks great!! I have her Freeing Your Child from Anxiety book and that is also very good.

I wonder if maybe your younger DS feels compared to his older brother? It can be really hard to follow in the footsteps of an older sibling who is very popular and has lots of friends when you are a very different personality.


Sometimes we get somewhere and he decides he doesn't want to do xyz (skating lessons, play at the park, go to the pet store) and I have no idea why...maybe the stars aren't aligned correctly?

Honestly, I was like this as a child and I know it drove my dad bonkers. For *me* it was because when actually confronted with the activity I wanted, I would get very anxious and shy and then would just say "I don't want to do this", when what I really meant was, "I'm really nervous and don't know what to do and I need encouragement". Obviously, I don't know that this is what is occuring with your DS, but I think this is a common behavior pattern in children who are shy or anxious.

[WolfpackMom]

That book looks great!! I have her Freeing Your Child from Anxiety book and that is also very good.

I wonder if maybe your younger DS feels compared to his older brother? It can be really hard to follow in the footsteps of an older sibling who is very popular and has lots of friends when you are a very different personality.


This was my first thought too. Maybe you have already this but, can you take him to do an activity without his older brother being along, and offer lots of praise when he participates etc. Sometimes (speaking from my own experience, not saying this is the case) when you hear people talking alot about how great your older sibling is or hearing lots of praise toward him/her or even statements of fact about their latest accomplishment or hearing someone comment about how different you are from your sibling it can make you turn more and more inward.

[pinkmomagain]

Honestly, I was like this as a child and I know it drove my dad bonkers. For *me* it was because when actually confronted with the activity I wanted, I would get very anxious and shy and then would just say "I don't want to do this", when what I really meant was, "I'm really nervous and don't know what to do and I need encouragement". Obviously, I don't know that this is what is occuring with your DS, but I think this is a common behavior pattern in children who are shy or anxious.

That's my nephew. He also has anxiety however it always presented as difficult behavior at in new environments, different activities. Very frustrating for my sister until she & he worked with a therapist. He's shown great improvement.

[hellokitty]

Karen, I understand what you are going through. DS1, who is in first grade is very much like this. Sometimes my DH and I joke that he is the family party pooper. We will try to do something as a family and he is the child who refuses to do an activity or completely freaks out on us or else throws a fit over some small detail. Lately, he has become really negative, I noticed this starting last yr. He got his first report card for this school yr and did well in everything, except handwriting and got a negative mark for, "being proud of his work." His parent/teacher conference is next wk, so I will talk to his teacher about it. However, it sounds like some of his negative behavior, which was mostly kept mostly for us at home, has probably lopped over to his attitude at school too. I just keep trying to encourage him and point out the positive, but I'm going to look into the two books suggested by pink and EGB too.

[nov04]

Honestly, I was like this as a child and I know it drove my dad bonkers. For *me* it was because when actually confronted with the activity I wanted, I would get very anxious and shy and then would just say "I don't want to do this", when what I really meant was, "I'm really nervous and don't know what to do and I need encouragement". Obviously, I don't know that this is what is occuring with your DS, but I think this is a common behavior pattern in children who are shy or anxious.

dd1 starts every day like this. "I don't want to go to school" "I don't want to get dressed" "I don't want to eat breakfast" "I'm sick, I need to stay home". Picking up tidbits of info from multiple sources, we figured out she was nervous and worried about the coming day.

I try to break up everything into manageable pieces for her that she can see quickly she *can* complete. Get her underjam off, get her underwear on. Then we go downstairs and start breakfast. We just talk about the task in front of us, not the whole day in general.

Honestly, I'm still like this. I get completely overwhelmed about the big task and decide I'm going to quit because there's no point so I can understand she would feel this way.

It's still incredibly difficult to deal with this day-in day-out. I get very frustrated each morning but I find it if I can keep the frustration out of my voice, she doesn't have another worry about making mommy mad.

I don't think our situation is entirely typical, we do things a lot differently simply because dd does have special needs, but she also still does have a lot in common with other kids.

[Katigre]

I think that the first thing is to embrace your DS's personality's good points. No matter how you 'encourage', he will likely never be a 'positive/upbeat/joiner/try new things easily' type of kid. While that's not the preferred MO in our society, it is true to who he is and it needs to be honored and the strengths emphasized. So I would say to you - what are his strengths? What are unique aspects of his personality that are good and you can focus on? You probably already do this, but wanted to mention it just in case.

I would recommend this book - Nurture by Nature (http://www.amazon.com/Nurture-Nature-Responsible-Children-Personality/dp/0316845132/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288880319&sr=8-1). This is definitely one of my favorite parenting books because it focuses on each unique type of child (using Meyers-Briggs temperament typing) and talks about what it is like in each stage of development (preschool/elementary age/teenager). It really helps me with some aspects of my DS's personality that are frustrating for me.

I also agree about looking into anxiety stuff. Can I ask, do you know anyone in your family who is more like your DS in personality who you could talk to for insight? I think the more you can understand where your DS is coming from with his approach to life, the better parenting you'll be empowered to do and the easier it will be for you to accept and guide him in his own way.

[Meatball Mommie]

Thanks to all for your replies and suggestions. I will def. look into the books recommended.

It's very frustrating to me as his mother because he really is a great kid, yet to most of the "outside" world, he's seen as Mr. Grumpy and the mean kid. I want people to see the real him, the way he is when he's not busy being grumpy. I also feel like he expends soooo much energy being negative. I am a positive person by nature, so some of my difficulty lies in just understanding him and his natural tendencies. He is a shy-er child, although that's not the adjective I'd use to describe him to people - he's definitely an observer. At school, he likes to watch other children do a new work a few times before he can be convinced to try it alongside the teacher (Montessori - so this works for him quite well).

The activities we have him right now are:
-piano lessons (which his brother also does and has been doing for 1 yr longer);
-skating lessons (his brother plays hockey, but is not present for the skating lessons & we don't drag him around to all the practices/games, but he does go to some and enjoys watching; we'd like for him to play hockey too, but realize he may not like it)
-swimming (just him right now - his brother might, but the schedule doesn't work right now and he's not that interested)
-soccer (spring and fall - he enjoys this as he has his own team)

I might look into baseball for the spring as DS1 doesn't have any interest in it, so it would be his own thing totally.

The other night he was sad because his best friend, who also takes piano from the same teacher and who started a month after him, played a few songs at our house and basically showed DS that he's waaay ahead of him. I felt soooo bad for him then - he has a hard time with piano (poor hand strength plus cooperation and negativity issues get in the way) and his friend doesn't. He even said "Tommy (friend) is just like J (brother)" and when I asked him what he meant he said that "Tommy is better than me too, just like J is" ...made my heart break!!!

I will talk to my MIL about this as she has commented before that he's a lot like BIL was as a child. BIL seemed to be a little shy-er (hid behind MIL's legs a lot) and DS2 isn't really, but he also was more of an observer-type learner. FWIW, something went right with BIL as he's well-adjusted, pleasant and happy adult ;)

We have one more weekend without DS1 (he's in Germany with MIL) so maybe I can think of something special to do with just us. I asked him last weekend, and he said he didn't want to go do anything though - even after I suggested the zoo, the park, a museum...

[pinkmomagain]

Just wanted to jump in and say that my negative dd1 also compares herself alot to others...I am so not like that, it is very difficult for me to relate to this tendency. Very frustrating. What I think is helping her is guitar lessons which she does on her own outside of school with no competition. She is also doing a couple of other things on her own...which helps to avoid the tendency to compare. I think it's great if you are able to find some activities where he can "compete" against himself and not others.

And maybe MIL will give you some good insight...please share if she does!

[Katigre]

A few more questions...

1. I would definitely have the brothers do separate activities to minimize comparison
2. What about martial arts as a sport for DS2? That really helps with building character, self-discipline, and self-confidence and might be good for him
3. Is he alright physically? Does he get enough sleep? People who feel badly tend to act badly, so if he's feeling less-than-100% (due to digestive issues, lack of sleep, etc...) that can impact his personality.

[Meatball Mommie]

A few more questions...

1. I would definitely have the brothers do separate activities to minimize comparison
2. What about martial arts as a sport for DS2? That really helps with building character, self-discipline, and self-confidence and might be good for him
3. Is he alright physically? Does he get enough sleep? People who feel badly tend to act badly, so if he's feeling less-than-100% (due to digestive issues, lack of sleep, etc...) that can impact his personality.

1: Trying, but it's hard. He's only 5 and in school a full day, so things that are open for that age group aren't always available for after school. Plus, we're limited of course by what's available locally. Any suggestions for other activities? And how do I handle it if DS1 wants to do said activity too?

Which brings me to...
2: YES! I really want to do this. Right down the street is a karate studio. I was thinking of doing this as his xmas present. The only problem with this is DS1 REALLY wants to do it too.

3. Yes, ok physically...gets plenty of rest, not sick, no real digestive issues (although we have to remind him to poo - he'll hold it for days! so sometimes that causes issues and we figure it out later when he finally poos). He's very tall for his age, but not all that strong. He learned to ride a bike without training wheels this fall, but hasn't really used his bike since. No issues that I can think of...

[Katigre]

2: YES! I really want to do this. Right down the street is a karate studio. I was thinking of doing this as his xmas present. The only problem with this is DS1 REALLY wants to do it too.
I would tell DS1 that DS2 gets to do it first for awhile - he gets preference with this like DS1 gets preference to do ______ activities.

[pinkmomagain]

He's very tall for his age, but not all that strong.

I wonder if people (not you & your dh...but teachers, other parents, etc.) expect more than they should of him because of his height...not intentionally of course.....

[Meatball Mommie]

I would tell DS1 that DS2 gets to do it first for awhile - he gets preference with this like DS1 gets preference to do ______ activities.

I've never tried doing that, but it's a thought. I'm not sure it would be good for karate though as both boys have been BEGGING to do it. They did a trial period after a friend had a bday party at his Tai Kwan Do studio and both have been asking since to do it "for real". DH and I were thinking of giving the uniforms as a present from Santa and then signing them up for lessons starting in Jan.

I wonder if there's something else that could be *just* DS2's thing.

eta: It might work though, because at this point DS1 is on the ice for hockey at least 4 times a week and I could tell him that he just doesn't have time and take DS2 on the days I know DS1 has hockey...

[Meatball Mommie]

I wonder if people (not you & your dh...but teachers, other parents, etc.) expect more than they should of him because of his height...not intentionally of course.....


Maybe, but honestly he still looks young. His school is a Montessori and he's one of the older kids now, so there's certainly some expectations there, but nothing that's not age appropriate. I've seen it happen to another kid we know who is VERY tall for his age.

I think I just need to find things to do with DS1 were he's the center of attention in a positive way.

[Meatball Mommie]

When I looked at the recommended books on Amazon I noticed a series of books aimed at children with similar issues:

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c

Thought I'd post in case others were interested...