carpet cleaning and babies....

[dec756]

i thought this is what cause john travoltas son to pass? am i wrong? isn't this very danggerous for babies to be around---im talking months or years after it has been done?

[scrooks]

I have never heard that but it's possible. Are you talking about professional carpet cleaning or a home system. We clean out family room carpet once every 4-6 months, with a home system.

[DrSally]

Are you talking about Kawasaki syndrome? Not sure if he got it from carpet cleaning chemicals or something else. I personally wouldn't want a baby crawling around on damp, freshly cleaned carpet. I'd want it really dry and aired out. I also don't let the kids walk on freshly spot cleaned carpet with bare feet (I'm paranoid like that).

[Melaine]

His son had Kawasaki Syndrome. It is argued whether or not KS is linked to carpet cleaning, either from the chemicals or from the dampness left behind. My sister almost died from Kawasaki when she was one. She was sick for several weeks and by the time they found a correct diagnosis, she had to be hospitalized for a week. I was about 10 at the time but years later I learned that she almost died.
We had visited a cabin just before that had just had it's carpet cleaned right before we arrived. My parents are absolutely convinced that that is the cause of her illness. Unfortunately, she still suffers from health issues that go back to KS, including cardiac issues and having to have her gallbladder removed at age 16 due to dozens of gallstones.
I realize that this sounds very extreme, but I am very careful not to let my kids near freshly cleaned carpet, especially when they were crawling age. We have not had our carpet cleaned and I am actually in the process of slowly replacing it because I am unwilling to take the risk of having it cleaned.

[DrSally]

His son had Kawasaki Syndrome. It is argued whether or not KS is linked to carpet cleaning, either from the chemicals or from the dampness left behind. My sister almost died from Kawasaki when she was one. She was sick for several weeks and by the time they found a correct diagnosis, she had to be hospitalized for a week. I was about 10 at the time but years later I learned that she almost died.
We had visited a cabin just before that had just had it's carpet cleaned right before we arrived. My parents are absolutely convinced that that is the cause of her illness. Unfortunately, she still suffers from health issues that go back to KS, including cardiac issues and having to have her gallbladder removed at age 16 due to dozens of gallstones.
I realize that this sounds very extreme, but I am very careful not to let my kids near freshly cleaned carpet, especially when they were crawling age. We have not had our carpet cleaned and I am actually in the process of slowly replacing it because I am unwilling to take the risk of having it cleaned.

Wow, so sorry this happened to your sister, Melanie. I can totally understand why they think it's was the carpet cleaning. I mean, if the 2 have been linked and you personally deveoped Kawasaki's after being exposed to recently cleaned carpets, then it's hard not to come to that conclusion.

[BabyMine]

We use Biokleen carpet cleaner solution becasue I don't like the residue from chemical cleaning solution. If we use a commercial company we make sure their products are green and the ingredients in them.

[Reina]

i thought this is what cause john travoltas son to pass? am i wrong? isn't this very danggerous for babies to be around---im talking months or years after it has been done?

To answer your first question: Travolta's son did not die because of carpet cleaning. He was diagnosed with Kawasaki Disease as a baby. His mother claimed that the onset of Kawasaki was triggered by toxic cleaning chemicals.

To answer your second question:
Although there has been attempted research pointing towards a possible association between carpet cleaning and Kawasaki Disease, the studies have not been able to provide conclusive scientific evidence. Therefore, the link between carpet cleaning or cleaning products and Kawasaki Disease remains inconclusive. Also important to note that there are many different types of carpets and rugs: synthetic, synthetic-organic blend, wool, silk, cotton to name a few. To sum up that (all or any) carpet cleaning is the culprit to a multi symptomatic- autoimmune inflammatory illness would be an imprudent assumption.
There is current ongoing research pointing towards a union of genetic disposition (a marker on chromosome 12q24 of KD patients) and environmental triggers as the cause of the disease. There is also claims of a possibility that the disease is caused by a virus. The acute presentation and clustering of symptoms suggest an infectious etiology. Although, the disease is not treatable with antibiotics. Current treatment method is administration of IVIG (gamma globulins) and aspirin therapy.

Kawasaki Disease is a fairly unknown and underdiagnosed illness and due to this unknown nature, research funding is rather limited. For more information, please visit kdfoundation.org. Or if you have any immediate questions or concerns, feel free to ask me. I will try to direct you in the right track.

[resipsaloquitur]

His son had Kawasaki Syndrome. It is argued whether or not KS is linked to carpet cleaning, either from the chemicals or from the dampness left behind. My sister almost died from Kawasaki when she was one. She was sick for several weeks and by the time they found a correct diagnosis, she had to be hospitalized for a week. I was about 10 at the time but years later I learned that she almost died.
We had visited a cabin just before that had just had it's carpet cleaned right before we arrived. My parents are absolutely convinced that that is the cause of her illness. Unfortunately, she still suffers from health issues that go back to KS, including cardiac issues and having to have her gallbladder removed at age 16 due to dozens of gallstones.
I realize that this sounds very extreme, but I am very careful not to let my kids near freshly cleaned carpet, especially when they were crawling age. We have not had our carpet cleaned and I am actually in the process of slowly replacing it because I am unwilling to take the risk of having it cleaned.

:yeahthat: Similar story except it was my cousin. And he also still suffers from lingering issues, even as an adult.

[dec756]

thanks guys

[gcc2k]

What about steam cleaning? Can't you get professionals who just use hot water? I'm assuming there would be no issues with that.

[clc053103]

Wow I never knew anything about this. We have a cream area rug in the family room and I clean it every few months, then leave it overnight to dry before anyone walks on it.

As a side note, my husband used to work for a chemical company that made cleaning products, and he says that any residue left in the carpet will actually attract dirt, so I always run a clean water rinse with the machine after to try to remove any chemical left in the carpet.

[BabyMine]

Wow I never knew anything about this. We have a cream area rug in the family room and I clean it every few months, then leave it overnight to dry before anyone walks on it.

As a side note, my husband used to work for a chemical company that made cleaning products, and he says that any residue left in the carpet will actually attract dirt, so I always run a clean water rinse with the machine after to try to remove any chemical left in the carpet.

I have my own carpet cleaner and I will always do a repeat clean with water only. It's amazing how much cleaner is left over.

[daisymommy]

When I worked in daycare, we had the large area rugs cleaned in 2 separate baby rooms (where the crawling babies stayed). Within a couple of days after wards, many of the babies had Kawasaki syndrome.

We recently had our carpets cleaned with steam cleaning, no chemicals. But I still did not DS#2 crawl on them for days until they were bone dry. I made sure our family wore rubber bottom slippers if they had to step on the carpet before it was dry (we only have carpet in the bedrooms, we have hardwood floor on the main living level).

[Fairy]

I will not clean our carpets, period. Steam cleaning with hot water definitely. But no chemical solutions. I no longer have crawling babies, but I am paranoid by nature, so I'm just not going there. I cannot tell you how excited I was to have half the house replaced with hard wood floors. In the next two years, we hope to do the other half of the house.

[Reina]

When I worked in daycare, we had the large area rugs cleaned in 2 separate baby rooms (where the crawling babies stayed). Within a couple of days after wards, many of the babies had Kawasaki syndrome.

I am sorry but, I have a real tough time staying quiet after such a loose statement such as: "Within a couple of days after wards, many of the babies had Kawasaki syndrome.".

I am a volunteer and an activist with Kawasaki Disease Foundation. We have NEVER received a report from any hospitals across the USA where a mass group of babies have been diagnosed with Kawasaki Disease all at once and within a few days from carpet cleaning in a day care center. If that was the case, we would have reached a breakthrough in Kawasaki Research. There has NEVER been any reports of mass Kawasaki outbreaks. Kawasaki Disease unfortunately has been made into a media monkey show due to the recklessly reported Travolta child's incident.
Kawasaki Disease is a very serious illness which cannot be attributed to loose associations drawn on tabloid media regarding carpets and upholstery cleaning methods. This claim of carpet cleaning and Kawasaki Disease association has been tested and examined by researchers of the Kawasaki Disease Program at Children's Hospital Boston. To this date, the researchers HAVE NOT reached a scientific conclusion in regards to a link between carpet cleaning and Kawasaki Disease.
Here is one of the amazing people from whom I receive my Kawasaki Disease information: http://www.cssd.us/body.cfm?id=263
She is the director of Kawasaki Research Center, UCSD/Children's Hospital, San Diego, CA

Please refer to kdfoundation.org website for accurate information.

I am just going to repeat myself and reference my previous post on this subject matter because I see a lot of misinformation going around:

"To answer your (OP) first question: Travolta's son did not die because of carpet cleaning. He was diagnosed with Kawasaki Disease as a baby. His mother claimed that the onset of Kawasaki was triggered by toxic cleaning chemicals.

To answer your (OP) second question:
Although there has been attempted research pointing towards a possible association between carpet cleaning and Kawasaki Disease, the studies have not been able to provide conclusive scientific evidence. Therefore, the link between carpet cleaning or cleaning products and Kawasaki Disease remains inconclusive. Also important to note that there are many different types of carpets and rugs: synthetic, synthetic-organic blend, wool, silk, cotton to name a few. To sum up that (all or any) carpet cleaning is the culprit to a multi symptomatic- autoimmune inflammatory illness would be an imprudent assumption.
There is current ongoing research pointing towards a union of genetic disposition (a marker on chromosome 12q24 of KD patients) and environmental triggers as the cause of the disease. There is also claims of a possibility that the disease is caused by a virus. The acute presentation and clustering of symptoms suggest an infectious etiology. Although, the disease is not treatable with antibiotics. Current treatment method is administration of IVIG (gamma globulins) and aspirin therapy.

Kawasaki Disease is a fairly unknown and underdiagnosed illness and due to this unknown nature, research funding is rather limited. For more information, please visit kdfoundation.org. Or if you have any immediate questions or concerns, feel free to ask me. I will try to direct you in the right track.

[boltfam]

I had never heard of the link between the two, but I'm glad I've read this. DH and I have been talking about getting our carpet cleaned. I think we'll reconsider.

[daisymommy]

Woaaa...so are you saying I'm lying?

I didn't say there was a "mass outbreak". I said many. So maybe 4-5 of out 12 babies, per room. And in the location this place was in, where many parents did not have health care insurance, once a couple babies were seen by their doctors, the director passed on the information to other parents about what the illness was, not all of them even went to the doctor.

Most people know that all illnesses are under reported. Many people self-treat. Just because the numbers aren't on the record books doesn't mean it never happened. Life isn't neat and tidy like that.

It's one thing to say that there could be a correlation, but so far there is no iron-clad proof that there is causation. And I would say, you are right.

But--from your own quotes:
"the researchers HAVE NOT reached a scientific conclusion in regards to a link between carpet cleaning and Kawasaki Disease." Which means they have NOT ruled out the theory that it is caused by carpet cleaning either. Your quotes also mention the theory that it is a combination of certain genes and an environmental trigger...such as....carpet cleaning chemicals ???

[Melaine]

Reina, I find your post somewhat offensive. Besides accusing pp of lying, your tone is completely condescending. Quoting yourself, and repeating the exact same information twice does not make it more true, or more clear. And your wording is suggesting that the concern over carpet cleaners is "misinformation". The fact that studies have not conclusively proven a link, does rule out the possibility of a link. So those of us that suggest caution are not wrong.
Just to be clear, my sister was diagnosed with KS 18 years ago, long before the media "monkey show" began. In fact, my parents are the ones that finally reached a diagnosis and told the doctors their suspicions based on some of her more unusual symptoms. They just did their own research until they found something that fit. They didn't hear about the link between carpet cleaning and KS until later. Your experience in this matter would have been more helpful if you could have presented in an objective and empathetic way.

[Reina]

Daisymommy, If what you're saying took place, please take the time and write to [email protected], citing the exact dates and where the incident took place including involved physicians names. (KD Foundation will not share your personal information with anyone.) In the meantime, I went through our entire database and could not find a similar situation to what you are referring.

Claiming that there were 4-5 out of 12 children in one episode is declaring an outbreak. Outbreak by definition is a sudden rise in the incidence of a disease. Not sure how your center diagnosed all these children since diagnosing Kawasaki Disease is a multi faceted approach which requires hospitalization and careful observation by many physicians. Also, why didn't your director report those children whom you are claiming to have been suffering with Kawasaki symptoms at the time to the proper authorities? 4-5 out of 12 equals 33% to 41% of the children. That is a lot of sick children! We are not talking about the common cold here. CDC should have been contacted immediately ...
But I am not going to argue with you because no matter what amount of arguing we do here is not going to get either of us anywhere. If what you're claiming is true, please take the time and contact KD Foundation. My Best...

[alirebco]

I don't know anything about Kawasaki Disease but we have only had our carpets cleaned by us using Biokleen carpet cleaner or hot water or professionally by ChemDry which uses carbonation to clean and they are nontoxic. They also don't soak the carpets so it dries in 2 hours rather than a day. We were very happy with them.

http://www.chemdry.com/services/professional-carpet-cleaning

[daisymommy]

It was 8 years ago! I left to be a mom to my son--whom I was pregnant with at the time. I had to be transferred to a different day care center due to risk of miscarriage should I get sick (this was a chain of dc centers).

I don't exactly have the kids records to see who their doctors were.

You sound very well educated and researched, probably upper socioeconomic status. But it seems that you don't have a clue with how the rest of the world works when they are low income, no insurance, no family doctor, and you only take your kid to the ER if you think they might be dying. Thankfully these babies did not get *that* sick.

Some of them did go to the doctor and were diagnosed. We posted pictures of the rash and a list of symptoms all around the center, and sent letters home to parents telling them to beware of the illness. When several more baby's parents came into the office, showed us the rash, told us the symptoms, it was all pretty obvious that they had Kawasaki too.

We had no idea how dangerous and scary this illness could be. No idea that we should report it to someone. How many parents know that when their child has a vaccine reaction they should report it to their doctor and VAERS? Not many. Which is why the CDC says that they estimate only 10% of all vaccine reactions are ever reported. And yet, we still go off of that slim number to say what is safe or not and what is normal. There are a great many things that are underreported out there, but that does not mean they aren't happening.

One last thing:
How often when a child goes to the doctor with Kawasaki syndrome does the doctor ever ask..."by any chance did you get your carpets cleaned in the last few days?" because if they don't, how many parents who aren't researchers like us would think to even mention what they might not believe to have any bearing on the situation? Again, possible under reporting.

[boltfam]

It was 8 years ago! I left to be a mom to my son--whom I was pregnant with at the time. I had to be transferred to a different day care center due to risk of miscarriage should I get sick (this was a chain of dc centers).

I don't exactly have the kids records to see who their doctors were.

You sound very well educated and researched, probably upper socioeconomic status. But it seems that you don't have a clue with how the rest of the world works when they are low income, no insurance, no family doctor, and you only take your kid to the ER if you think they might be dying. Thankfully these babies did not get *that* sick.

Some of them did go to the doctor and were diagnosed. We posted pictures of the rash and a list of symptoms all around the center, and sent letters home to parents telling them to beware of the illness. When several more baby's parents came into the office, showed us the rash, told us the symptoms, it was all pretty obvious that they had Kawasaki too.

We had no idea how dangerous and scary this illness could be. No idea that we should report it to someone. How many parents know that when their child has a vaccine reaction they should report it to their doctor and VAERS? Not many. Which is why the CDC says that they estimate only 10% of all vaccine reactions are ever reported. And yet, we still go off of that slim number to say what is safe or not and what is normal. There are a great many things that are underreported out there, but that does not mean they aren't happening.

One last thing:
How often when a child goes to the doctor with Kawasaki syndrome does the doctor ever ask..."by any chance did you get your carpets cleaned in the last few days?" because if they don't, how many parents who aren't researchers like us would think to even mention what they might not believe to have any bearing on the situation? Again, possible under reporting.

Wow, that makes me sad for those babies and their families. I think a lot of people think links between vaccines/chemicals/etc. and illnesses are a bunch of hogwash and a lot of them never suspect anything like that when their child gets sick.

I think you're right, daisymommy, in saying that a lot of things are under reported. DS always gets really high fevers with vaccines, and I let the dr. office know, but they didn't seem concerned, and I doubt if they did anything with that info. The nurse just acted like, "oh, thanks for sharing". I actually thought they were supposed to report to VAERS up until a couple of weeks ago.

[daisymommy]

deleted.

[arivecchi]

I appreciate Reina's detailed responses and all the info she posted. I had not heard of this so I appreciate actual research on the subject. Thanks!

[elektra]

I also appreciate the links and the personal stories.
I had read that the Travolta's son's Kawasaki disease diagnosis was basically BS, and that they just didn't want to admit that their son had autism because of their religion.
(I think my source was something like US magazine though, so of course take that info for what it is, a rumor.)
So it's good to hear about actual personal experiences and links to the organization and such.
Seems like it wouldn't be a big deal to just keep your kids of recently cleaned carpets just in case!

[Babymakes3]

I have been struggling with how to clean my living room carpet as there are some spots around where ds likes to hang out. I remember hearing something about toxins that are released after carpets are cleaned so i've been putting it off since i'm unsure what to do. My carpet is a very light beige and 95% of it is fine, it's just a small path and a certain area.