My ex wants to move out of state

[tylersmama]

I feel completely powerless right now and don't know what to do.

XH has been dating a girl from the neighborhood he grew up in (in Ohio) for several months. I have no problem at all with that or with their relationship in general, except for the fact that she's in Ohio. She has a 3 year old, and her divorce was not as amicable as ours, so apparently her moving here is not really an option. He hinted several months ago that he was thinking about moving back to Ohio this summer to be closer to her and to his family, and I told him at that time that I thought it was a pretty lousy idea. Well, apparently his lease is up in March and he thinks he has to make a move then if he's going to.

I just don't see how this can be a good thing in any way, except for that DS would get to see X's family more often. From a logistics standpoint, I don't see how flying back to Ohio frequently to see his father is going to work well, especially once he starts school full-time next year. And once he potentially gets involved in sports and activities, it's going to be even worse! I'm not comfortable with him flying by himself for at LEAST several more years, so someone would have to fly with him both ways.

From a purely selfish standpoint, I treasure the time I get to myself on the weekends. I love DS more than life itself, but my entire life is planned around him, from what I can do for a workout and when (because I have to either take him with me or plan it when he's at school or his dad's) to any activities with friends to when I can study and do my homework (only when he's in bed). And while I do enjoy my "me" time when he's with his dad, if it's longer than a few days, I start feeling like a piece of myself is missing.

And most of all, I worry about DS and how it would affect him emotionally. I don't ever want him to think that he wasn't good enough or lovable enough and that's why his dad moved away from him. :(

Talk me down, here...I've already sent him an email detailing (and going into more details, even) the things I've listed here. I don't want to come off as the bitter and angry ex-wife, who's just trying to make things difficult for him, because that's really not what this is about. It's about what's best for DS (and to a lesser extent, me), and I just don't see any way that this could be good.

Advice? BTDT?

[kara97210]

Wow, this is tough. I totally think you are right to be worried/concerned. I also think your ex's primary responsibility/concern should be your DS not his new relationship. Sounds like he is going to go from being a joint parent, to just holidays, school vacations, etc. That is a huge adjustment for all 3 of you.

Don't have any advice for you, but good luck and :hug:.

[rlu]

What is it that your X wants? Does he want to go as Kara97210 indicates - just seeing DS on holidays? Is that best for DS, maybe it is. Having happy parents is important to a kid and if this is what X needs to do to move on and be happy, maybe it's for the best long-term?

[blisstwins]

I think he needs to think carefully about the implications for his relationship with his son. He already chose to leave when he was very young and moving now if likely to transform his relationship and really hamper their ability to be close. I think it is lousy to move for a woman at this point, unless they are truly on the verge of marriage. So sorry for you.

[elektra]

Just wanted to send you some hugs. Such a tough situation and it seems like you are being very level headed about the whole thing. Your DS is very lucky to have you as his mom. :)

[jenmcadams]

Gaye -

I read your post earlier and have been wondering if I could offer any third party advice. I have two close friends who both have their ex-spouses living out of state. One has a son who is in 3rd grade (and the Dad has been living out of state since he was 1) and the other has two sons, one in K and 3rd grade (in her case, she moved back to CO from out of state where shortly after relocating, her DH left).

My friend who has been dealing with this since her son was 1 has seen the situation change a lot over time. At first, the Dad flew back 2x per month to see the son. His parents were members a golf club with cottages in town and he would just stay there when he came in from out of town. Over time, the visits were cut down to every 3-4 weeks and are now every 4-6 weeks. He ended up getting married and having a child and he's really become a vacation dad. It's tough...my friend has also remarried and luckily her new DH has been a great stepdad to her son. He loves his stepdad and while he obviously loves his Dad too, he has been lucky to have that guy in town for all the stuff little boys want their Dads to do (Dad events at school, sports stuff, etc.)

My other friend has had a rougher time...even though she only lived in the new state for a month when her DH left her, it was super tough to get court approval to come home to CO. Eventually, she got the court approval, but she flies the boys down 1x per month and her ex flies up here 1x per month. It's been a nightmare as the boys have gotten older and are on sports teams, etc. They are constantly missing games, school parties, birthday parties, etc. and end up missing a 1/2 day of school every time they fly down there. When their Dad flies up here, he often won't take them to parties or school events b/c he wants to just spend time with them. She also has to pay for his hotel, etc. when he flies in (she agreed to a bad settlement to be able to move home where her friends and family are). He recently married the woman he left her for and they had a baby just a few months ago. She's in the process of trying to rework the visitation. Her preference would have been to have her ex in the same town, but there was nothing for her in the new town and all of her work, family and friends were back here. Even so, she often wonders if she should have just stayed. She's wracked with guilt over the fact that he doesn't see the kids that often and at everything the kids miss here.

I think everything you listed is important to talk about. If your ex moves, he will end up becoming a vacation Dad. He won't be able to be involved in all of the day to day parts of being a parent and that will mean he'll miss a lot. This will also mean your life will change a lot. Both of my friends were never in the situation of having an ex in town for a true co-parenting relationship and it's tough. Having to pay for babysitters everytime you want to go somewhere without your child is a pain (and expensive). I know you're back in school and I would worry about how that will work. Were you planning to rely on your ex for some childcare for school? Finally, if he moves, when he comes to town to visit where will he stay. There are a lot of added costs and I've watch both of these friends struggle with this.

Good luck and let me know if you ever need to talk...we still need to go on that bike ride at some point :)

Edited to Add: In both cases, the kids are not flying on their own yet (in one case, the dad flies in to get the son for visits to his state and in the other, the mom actually flies with the kids when they go out of state each month)

[niccig]

I'm sorry that he's thinking of doing this. I think all you can do is tell him that this will have a huge impact on his relationship with DS, and he'll be a vacation dad only. If he's OK with that happening, then I don't think there is much you can do.

It's not at all fair to DS.

:hug5:

[citymama]

Ugh, that sucks for you. I hope he reconsiders, or his GF considers moving to CO. I mean, CO is way cooler than OH, right? (Sorry Corie and other Buckeye state moms!) Sending you hugs and good thoughts - I hope this works out in a way that is best for you and your son.

[ha98ed14]

My perspective is from the point of view of having grown up with "a vacation dad". We saw him 2 weeks in the summer and every other holiday. He was never there for school plays or recitals. My sister and I turned out okay. We're not super close to our dad, but we are in touch and I know he loves me.

Here is my advice: Let him go. Seriously, your and DS' life together will be more stable and consistent if you are not shuttling DS back and forth. If you plan to put down roots on Colorado, do so. Get involved with whatever you and DS will thrive doing. And do not agree to facilitate any part of XH's move or visitation.

While DS is young, XH will need to travel to you to visit him, and pay for his own place to stay. When DS is old enough to fly as an unaccompanied minor, XH will be paying for the ticket. DO NOT agree to anything that makes his life financially easier. Live your life with DS and let XH have the leftovers. It's what XH wants; he's saying so with his actions. Let him do it. But ONLY BECAUSE you cannot force him to stay and live life on your terms. So best to send him on his way with a "don't let the door hit you on the way out!" kick to the ass. *YOU* will never be able to make up for the lack of his biodad in DS' life, if it plays out that way. *YOU* cannot prevent DS from feeling like he "wasn't good enough or lovable enough and that's why his dad moved away from him." BUT you can give DS a stable home, a loving parent who is present for all his big and small moments, and a happy childhood. DS WILL BE OK. He will. It's hard to see that now, but regardless of how much or little his biodad chooses to be in his life, he will be ok because he will have had you as his mom.

The one thing you MUST do is find some reliable activity and/ or safe place where DS can spend time so that you can get a break.

It *IS* going to be ok. It will be hard and stressful and even infuriating at times, but YOU are getting the best end of the deal: Your son. We knew XH was a selfish bastard when he walked out on you. This proves it even more so. Let him go.

Hugs and P&PTs!

[resipsaloquitur]

My perspective is from the point of view of having grown up with "a vacation dad". We saw him 2 weeks in the summer and every other holiday. He was never there for school plays or recitals. My sister and I turned out okay. We're not super close to our dad, but we are in touch and I know he loves me.

Here is my advice: Let him go. Seriously, your and DS' life together will be more stable and consistent if you are not shuttling DS back and forth. If you plan to put down roots on Colorado, do so. Get involved with whatever you and DS will thrive doing. And do not agree to facilitate any part of XH's move or visitation.

While DS is young, XH will need to travel to you to visit him, and pay for his own place to stay. When DS is old enough to fly as an unaccompanied minor, XH will be paying for the ticket. DO NOT agree to anything that makes his life financially easier. Live your life with DS and let XH have the leftovers. It's what XH wants; he's saying so with his actions. Let him do it. But ONLY BECAUSE you cannot force him to stay and live life on your terms. So best to send him on his way with a "don't let the door hit you on the way out!" kick to the ass. *YOU* will never be able to make up for the lack of his biodad in DS' life, if it plays out that way. *YOU* cannot prevent DS from feeling like he "wasn't good enough or lovable enough and that's why his dad moved away from him." BUT you can give DS a stable home, a loving parent who is present for all his big and small moments, and a happy childhood. DS WILL BE OK. He will. It's hard to see that now, but regardless of how much or little his biodad chooses to be in his life, he will be ok because he will have had you as his mom.

The one thing you MUST do is find some reliable activity and/ or safe place where DS can spend time so that you can get a break.

It *IS* going to be ok. It will be hard and stressful and even infuriating at times, but YOU are getting the best end of the deal: Your son. We knew XH was a selfish bastard when he walked out on you. This proves it even more so. Let him go.

Hugs and P&PTs!

I have BTDT and I couldn't say this nearly as well myself. My exH moved when DS was 3 so clearly he couldn't travel by him self either.

I think some of what you are struggling with is the guilt from grieving for the possible loss of your alone time. I know I honestly felt bad admitting to myself and others that as much as I loved DS I needed a little time once in a while. Don't feel bad for this. No one will doubt your love just because you need to recharge once in a while. You need that for your sanity and to be a better mom.

Also, other than a basic explaination of why you think this would be a bad idea for DC, I wouldn't put too much time into trying to talk to you exH about this. I've gone over and over these things with my exH and his response is always to think I am jealous that he is moving on with his life. This couldn't be farther from the truth but he is so narcissistic that he always thinks it's about him rather than DS. What I've realize with my exH, and I think it fits for yours too, is that if he's really into himself and his new life, more than his child, he can ignore his child in state or out of state. My exH is sooo thrilled with being a big shot bachelor around town that even before he moved he clearly was moving out of parenting mode. And I think it would be easier to explain to your child that their dad isn't involved because he lives elsewhere, rather than he isn't involved because he just doesn't care to be.

The one thing I will tell you is that you will need to develop a strong social support system. Especially if you don't have family near by. Most divorced women have some help in emergencies from their children's dads. You aren't going to have this. This means every time DC is sick, you will be the one to miss work. Everytime DC gets up in the middle of the night, it will be all you. You will go to all the school functions alone, when almost everyone will have DC's father there also (at least at my DC's school, the divorced parents show up but usually don't sit together). You just need to know this and accept it. It is all on you. It isn't fair. But hopefully in time your DC will know and apprecaite all that you have done. At least that's what keeps me going.

[Cam&Clay]

When XH and I were working out the details of our divorce, he wanted it in our papers that I was not allowed to move more than 100 miles away from him. I was going to agree to it, but my lawyer said hell no. The lawyer's point was that I never knew who I'd fall in love with. I agreed with him and it wasn't put in the papers.

Fast forward to me finding DH who was active duty Army. When we fell in love, he was stationed in Kentucky. The hardest thing I ever did was telling DH that I could not join him in KY because I couldn't take DS1 away from his dad. Divorce papers didn't tell me not to. I just couldn't do it. DH and I immediately made plans to live apart for the next 3 years until he retired.

My XH would never move away. I can guarantee that.

I have known many families over the years (as a teacher) where the dad lived elsewhere and the children only saw him on holidays and in the summer. I'm sure these children loved their dads and vice versa, but you can't say that their relationship was the same as the ones who had their dads locally.

I know you can't stop him, but I would discourage it.

[marge234]

So sorry for DS and you that you're in this situation. You've already gotten great feedback. I just want to discourage discussing these things with XH via e-mail--if possible. Things can take on a life of their own, get passed around, accidentally or willfully misinterpreted, etc.... Maybe I'm paranoid but it just strikes me as risky. I wonder if there's a mediator or some third party the two of you could sit down with to discuss this.

[justlearning]

Hugs to you...

I don't have any advice but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you're going through this right now. I wish your X could spend a flight next to a child flying from one parent's house to another. I did this recently--he was 8 and had been flying by himself since he was 5. It was so sad for me to hear him talk about the schedule that he has for spending time with his mom in one state and his dad in another state. I wish that your X could have been in my seat on the plane that day.

[sste]

Can you make plans to discuss this with XH with a third party present? Perhaps a counselor or a pastor? Your XH needs to consider the full implications of this decision and it may be easy to dismiss you as the X, but it will be harder to dismiss the issues raised by a neutral third party.

Not that you asked, but I think this is really pretty low of your XH. I am willing to go quite far on the cultural relativism, live and let live thing . . . but men who move out of state and leave their kids without it being an absolute necessity (e.g., unemployment that interferes with child support; marriage and new spouse absolutely cannot move to where child lives) are pond scum in my book. During the biggest fight I ever had with my DH I told him I was moving out with the kids and he said, "When do we move?" And then I said we weren't moving I was! And he said he wanted to coordinate with me because he planned to rent down the street from me wherever I moved to.

I think you are due finding a Mr. Wonderful, OP. Hang in there!

[DrSally]

I'm so sorry this is happening. I can't imagine how a father can think of moving out of state for a nonessential reason. I can totally see how 2 days wo/DS is doable, even a nice break, but long periods wo/help and then him being away for weeks during the summer and then some holidays? Not good.

That said, I think ha98ed14 made some very good points. You can't change his mind. He knows what he's doing and he's deciding to do it (although sitting down with a neutral 3rd party to make sure he truly understands may be a good idea--rather than trying to persuade him yourself). ITA that DS will be ok b/c YOU will be there for him.

[elektra]

I think you are due finding a Mr. Wonderful, OP. Hang in there!
:yeahthat:!

[tylersmama]

:love-retry:

I love you guys. Thank you. For making me feel validated in my concerns and that I'm not blowing this out of proportion.

We do have in our parenting plan that neither of us can move out of the metro area. That said, I'm not going to fight him if this is what he decides. It's not my style, and I can't afford court costs and legal fees related to a battle anyway. As is, if he moves, we'll have to rewrite our parenting plan to reflect that, which won't be cheap, even just for a couple of hours with the mediator. And I will certainly advocate for increased child support or something to make up for the fact that I'll have to pay someone almost any time I need some time to myself.

As usual, he's choosing his own happiness over what's best for his son. And he even acknowledges that. Which makes me really sad. It's not that I want him to be unhappy, because that isn't good for DS either, but he's only been dating this girl for 6 months! He's ready to sacrifice his relationship with his son for someone he's only been with for a very short time. Sigh.

He wants to talk about things this weekend, so we'll see how that goes, I guess. It sounds like he pretty much has his mind made up, which means there won't be any talking him out of it. And I've wasted enough energy on that over the years, anyway.

Thanks for the thoughts and hugs...keep 'em coming!

eta: Jen, yes! We do need to do that bike ride...but when it's a little warmer! ;)

[kijip]

Definitely modify the parenting plan to include increased childcare costs and that he pays for all visits. Without a formal modification, it would be that much easier for him to stick you with plane ticket costs or try and get something like months long visits where your son is out of state for a very long time. Sorry he is being such a selfish person. I can not even begin to imagine what he is thinking to rationalize this. I can't see moving away from my child like that unless I had no choice- ie the only economic opportunity to me that would allow me to feed my kids meant moving or I had a job where my kids could not come with me, regardless of my marital status like being deployed.

[resipsaloquitur]

:love-retry:

I love you guys. Thank you. For making me feel validated in my concerns and that I'm not blowing this out of proportion.

We do have in our parenting plan that neither of us can move out of the metro area. That said, I'm not going to fight him if this is what he decides. It's not my style, and I can't afford court costs and legal fees related to a battle anyway. As is, if he moves, we'll have to rewrite our parenting plan to reflect that, which won't be cheap, even just for a couple of hours with the mediator. And I will certainly advocate for increased child support or something to make up for the fact that I'll have to pay someone almost any time I need some time to myself.

As usual, he's choosing his own happiness over what's best for his son. And he even acknowledges that. Which makes me really sad. It's not that I want him to be unhappy, because that isn't good for DS either, but he's only been dating this girl for 6 months! He's ready to sacrifice his relationship with his son for someone he's only been with for a very short time. Sigh.

He wants to talk about things this weekend, so we'll see how that goes, I guess. It sounds like he pretty much has his mind made up, which means there won't be any talking him out of it. And I've wasted enough energy on that over the years, anyway.

Thanks for the thoughts and hugs...keep 'em coming!

eta: Jen, yes! We do need to do that bike ride...but when it's a little warmer! ;)

I think you really have the right perspective on it all. You are doing better than you think you are.

My situation is ironic in that my exH argued and won the restriction that I can't move out of the metro area, because I have primiary residential status, but per the divorce he is allowe to move anywhere he wants. The laws in my state suck (PS. I'm a lawyer and admitted in three states so I know it's not that bad everywhere.)

And you are really right in that the sad news is that he is choosing his happiness at the expense of his child. A lot of parents (especially men but not always exclusively) do this after a divorce. My exH is one of them. When he has a new girlfriend he rarely wants to see DS. He is too busy with "more important things" and has told me to "stop trying to use him as a babysitter." When he doesn't have a girlfriend, then he wants DS all the time and if DS has a conflict (sporting event, birthday party, etc.) that requires an extra day or two here, then exH accuses me of withholding DS. My parenting behavior doesn't change- only my ex's view of it.

I've seen guys like this move away to follow a new girl, then the girl breaks up with them, they then want to move back but because they gave up their job they are unemployed so now they want to be the primary residential parent and have the mom pay child support to them! So I think you are totally right to ask for an increase in your child support now. And save some of it incase you have you have any more battles down the road.

[tylersmama]

I think some of what you are struggling with is the guilt from grieving for the possible loss of your alone time.
YES. Thank you. He claims that he at least tries to understand how hard it is for me, but he has NO clue. I have a dream of doing a full Ironman within the next few years, and I don't see that being remotely possible without the even limited parenting support I get now.


I've seen guys like this move away to follow a new girl, then the girl breaks up with them, they then want to move back but because they gave up their job they are unemployed so now they want to be the primary residential parent and have the mom pay child support to them! So I think you are totally right to ask for an increase in your child support now. And save some of it incase you have you have any more battles down the road.
I'm not actually worried about the job, because he can work anywhere as long as he has internet, phone, and airport access. He travels a lot, as it is. I AM concerned about the relationship lasting, given that he moved straight in with the woman who was involved in our break-up, lived with her for a year and a half, and may have already been (i.e. probably was) dating the new GF when he broke up with the first one and moved out. He said that the new GF actually would like to live here (and her sister lives here), but she can't move now, although it apparently might be a possibility in a few years.

I think he's kidding himself when he claims that he wants to be closer to his friends and family. As far as I know, she's the only friend that he's seen when he's been back, and he's spent more time with her than he actually has with his family. He says he's envious of the life I've built out here (i.e. I have friends). Well, you know what? I worked hard to build my social support network. I put myself out there to make friends because I had to. And I don't have it nearly as good as he thinks I do, as evidenced by the fact that a) I haven't even had a date yet and b) I spend most weekend evenings sitting alone on my couch, even when I don't have DS! :bag

Whatever happens will happen. And I'll make it work somehow, just like I always do...

[DrSally]

:...And I will certainly advocate for increased child support or something to make up for the fact that I'll have to pay someone almost any time I need some time to myself.


This thought popped up into my head too, but I forgot to post it. Maybe even calculate based on hours that he's "giving up" and come up with a total. You could use that to pay a part time nanny.

[resipsaloquitur]

YES. Thank you. He claims that he at least tries to understand how hard it is for me, but he has NO clue. I have a dream of doing a full Ironman within the next few years, and I don't see that being remotely possible without the even limited parenting support I get now.


...

I do tri's too. My strategy- find a good gym with good day care. 90% of tri training can be done there. The other 10%, like open water swims, are harder for me. I just get a sitter for those and suck it up financially. It's actually harder for me because my former training partner isn't doing tris any more and you can't exactly do open water swims alone. Given the little help I got from DH even when he lived here, I'd rather have a good training partner and good babysitter than him back ANY DAY!

[tylersmama]

I belong to the Y, and DS loves the childwatch there. I just *can't* do much more than 5 or 6 on the treadmill, other than occasionally, though, and spin class only goes so far. I've done two half-ironmans, and training for that is hard enough. I pretty much don't practice OWS. I swim in the pool, and not nearly as much as I should! On the bright side, I'm not fast and I know it, so my training is solely focused on finishing rather than trying to be competitive. :D My strategy so far has been to get either a long run or a long ride in on my typical one day without DS on the weekend. And I rarely do bricks. I'm an awful triathlete, in many ways, LOL!

I'm much calmer today. No sense borrowing trouble and getting myself worked up, at this point. We'll see how things shake out when we talk this weekend. If we actually do...:rolleyes:

[Corie]

Gaye,

I don't have any advice or words of wisdom. I just wanted
to post and say that really stinks!

I hope you get this worked out!