Putting down "drowsy"??? How???

[TxCat]

I've posted before about DD's sleep problems and as someone warned me, as one thing improves, something else seems to pop up :rolleye0014:

DD is nearly 4 months old and technically sleeps through the night most nights, meaning she usually has a 4-6 hour stretch in the first part of the night, followed by a 2-4 hour stretch. That sleep pattern is okay for us and definitely something DH and I are happy to live with (well, DH would be happier if she slept for a 12-hr uninterrupted stretch, but that's another story).

Our problem now is that it takes what seems to be a long time for her to go to sleep at night, and we're thinking about CIO to improve that. (Our typical schedule is bath around 6:30 pm, then low lights/quiet for post-bath lotion, get into pj's, then nursing or bottle in the glider, then burping/rocking/shushing until asleep - this is usually around 7:30-8:30 pm).

I know all the sleep books emphasize putting baby to sleep "drowsy, but not asleep." I have great irritation at this advice, because they never seem to explain what to do if putting the baby down when s/he is drowsy actually wakes them up more, which is our situation. Do you just let them try and fall asleep alone even though they are now wide awake? Do you pick the baby back up and attempt to soothe back into drowsiness? Additionally, are our expectations unrealistic? DD usually goes to bed a little bit easier for me than DH, but since I have to work nights a lot (I'm a doctor who is often in the hospital on call), it's important to me that DD learns to fall asleep with DH or grandparents or another caregiver. Any suggestions?

[SnuggleBuggles]

I never succeeded in that. I nursed to slep till that stopped working. Both boys stopped falling asleep nursing between 8-10 months. At that point we would just put them down at bedtime and they would "talk" and play to sleep. It was easy for us. I didn't mind nursing to sleep and it never became a horrible crutch for the kids.

Beth

[Katigre]

I never did 'drowsy but awake' either. To encourage you, I also worked nights. DH put DD to sleep entirely differently than I put her to sleep and that was ok - she adjusted to both. I don't think you have to worry that the way you do it has to be universal for everyone else who cares for her (at least that was never the case over here). I enjoyed nursing my babies to sleep and they outgrew when they were older. DH obviously couldn't nurse them ;), but he would sing to DD and cuddle her and she would fall asleep for him that way.

[TxCat]

I never did 'drowsy but awake' either. To encourage you, I also worked nights. DH put DD to sleep entirely differently than I put her to sleep and that was ok - she adjusted to both. I don't think you have to worry that the way you do it has to be universal for everyone else who cares for her (at least that was never the case over here). I enjoyed nursing my babies to sleep and they outgrew when they were older. DH obviously couldn't nurse them ;), but he would sing to DD and cuddle her and she would fall asleep for him that way.

When I put DD to bed, she falls asleep nursing about 70% of the time, and the rest of the time I can usually rock/shush her to sleep over the course of 30 minutes.

But, I feel bad because when DH has to put her to bed when I'm not home, she apparently screams and cries for most of the bedtime routine. :( Like, 2 hours of screaming/crying. So I'm worried that DD is getting too used to being nursed to sleep/put to sleep by mommy...

[SnuggleBuggles]

Perhaps he is starting the bedtime routine too late and she is overtired? It kind of sounds like it.

Beth

[TxCat]

Perhaps he is starting the bedtime routine too late and she is overtired? It kind of sounds like it.

Beth

If anything, he puts her to bed earlier than needed.

Apparently last night was even worse than usual, with her getting up at 1, 3, 4 and 5:30. :(

[PGTB]

We tried this when we tried to sleep train DS at 5 months. I would always nurse him at bedtime and up to this day (he is 9 months old) he still falls asleep at the breast. When we tried sleep training I would not wait till DS would completely go to sleep, but did this when he would pull away from the breast indicating he finished eating. He would still be awake, but drowsy, which means inevitably, he will be upset when put into his crib.


We are not sleep training and we are co-sleeping at this point. For a while we have just been putting him to sleep when he actually falls into deeper sleep. It's easier for us to transfer him into his Baby Bjorn (temporary holding place before he ends up in our bed). I nurse him and wait till he falls asleep completely and then transfer him to the crib. He often wakes up and cries, then i put him on our bed and he falls asleep on his own.

So, being put drowsy but awake works like a charm on our bed even if we are not yet going to sleep with him, but doesn't for any sort of crib arrangement.

[ray7694]

My first thought is overtired. When is the last nap before bed? My dd was asleep around 7ish at that age.

Too young for CIO at that age.
I followed The Baby Whisperer book with great success with both my children. You can get EASY scheduled here:

http://www.babywhispererforums.com/

[Lupe]

According to what I heard from sleep researchers (That's DH job, so I a lot dinner party conversations go into the topic), putting the baby "drowsy but not asleep in bed" only applies when you are trying to teach them to soothe themselves to sleep. Putting to bed drowsy will always make them more awake if they are used to be put to bed asleep. So if you are not starting to sleep train maybe you shouldn't put the baby to bed drowsy?
There seems to be some controversy regarding when a baby is neurologically mature enough to be able to soothe themselves, trying to put a drowsy baby to bed before then is useless and stressing to the baby. I know Baby 411 says around 4 months, but I heard from some scientists say 6 months, and every baby is unique. Maybe at 4 months it is still too early for your baby?

[Katigre]

If anything, he puts her to bed earlier than needed.

Apparently last night was even worse than usual, with her getting up at 1, 3, 4 and 5:30. :(
The nights I worked, DS would always wake up at night b/c he missed me. The nights I didn't work, he'd STTN (this was when he was almost 2). It is normal for your baby to wake up more when you are gone - it's miserable, but it means she has a strong attachment to you and wants to be with you. As she gets older it WILL get easier, and your DH needs to persevere through the ensuing months as best he can.

[wellyes]

DD usually goes to bed a little bit easier for me than DH, but since I have to work nights a lot (I'm a doctor who is often in the hospital on call), it's important to me that DD learns to fall asleep with DH or grandparents or another caregiver. Any suggestions? DS goes to sleep being rocked by his grandmother or being worn by DH in a Bjorn in a dark room. DH plays video games on my ipod touch while bouncing the baby in the Bjorn as he drifts off.

I did CIO with DD and I am not at all opposed to it, it can be useful, but 4 months is too young according to Dr Ferber who is the expert I trust for the technique. He says 5.5 months at the earliest. I really encourage you to read his book on the subject to make the process as quick and painless as possible.

At 7 months, DS is old enough for CIO, but we haven't got there yet. I wouldn't call CIO a last resort, necessarily, but it's not something anyone enjoys (especially with another kid in the house).

[candaceb]

By some stroke of luck, we have a baby who is successfully put down "drowsy, but awake". As long as he is not overtired, he will usually settle right down and go to sleep. Sometimes we have to go in and return his pacifier, but he usually just goes to sleep. If he is overtired, it is an entirely different situation. We are in the opposite camp where it is hard to put him down if he is asleep in my arms - he wakes up when I put him down. So when he is overtired and crying at bedtime, I end up standing over the crib, holding the pacifier in with my thumb and stroking his head to soothe him.
Another thing that I think is key to this working for us is that he sleeps on his stomach. :eek: It started when he was fighting the swaddle around 3 months and I couldn't get him to sleep on his back without it. A friend suggested that he had enough strength to lift his head up off the mattress, so it was probably safe to put him on his stomach. I tried it out of desperation and it worked.

[TxCat]

Okay, good to hear that 4 months is still too young for CIO. We have the Mindell book, and she is sort of vague about the 3-6 month window.

For the last two nights, DD has screamed bloody murder if DH has tried to put her to sleep. She won't even take a bottle from him at that time. So then I come in, and she takes the bottle from me, and let's me either soothe her to sleep, put her in her crib, etc. She'll still take a bottle from DH in the middle of the night, but just not to go to sleep at the start of the evening.

We have 3 more nights till I'm on call next, and I really want to improve DH's ability to get DD to go to sleep. Should we just put her to bed together for the next 3 nights? Should he drape a shirt of mine over his shoulder she thinks I'm nearby? Hearing DD cry/scream like that is making both of us miserable - DH thinks she hates him and I feel even more guilty for working. :(