S/O of the US education system - have a DC starting K in the fall

[chiisai]

I was reading the last thread and I have a lot of questions.

I would like to know what kinds of things we should focus on outside of school, things that are not being covered, etc, in elementary. Or just any thoughts or things I may want to consider - I have a DS starting K in the fall. I'm clarifying this, thanks Catherine, i'm not so concerned with kindergarten, moreso as they move up in grades. Without my own experiences yet, i'm not entirely sure the questions to ask. Maybe, how to help him with "logic" exercises as he gets older? For k, i'll be happy if he just plays.

Also, a colleague mentioned that he cannot get through all the homework for his 2nd grader. He has tutors to help with studying, and he recommended that if we can afford it, to have someone just come help to oversee getting all the homework done.

He also mentioned one of the tutors said that teachers often can only get to introduction of concepts, and the learning has to take place outside of school.

This thread is all over the place, sorry. I guess I am just wondering what to expect.

Thank you, I hope I don't upset anyone, I'm just curious and nervous.

[crl]

Does your school have homework for K? Ours did, but not much, and many schools don't start it until 1st (I wish they did not have any until 5th, but that's a different topic).

I found k to be 90 percent stuff ds already knew. He entered k knowing all the letters and their sounds and knowing how to count to over 20 and able to do easy addition and subtraction. You may find that your child already knows most of the K curriculum, especially if he or she went to preschool.

For the K age group, my opinion is that after school should be for as much free play as possible. I think that develops valuable skills in itself. But that is just my take on things.

Catherine

[chiisai]

I'm not sure about K homework.

I guess i am concerned more about what things to help him with in elementary, in general, as he's starting this fall. I'm just trying to think ahead. Thanks - I'll edit my first post.

[Katigre]

You might find these books helpful in finding areas to fill in the gaps - What your kindergartner needs to know by Ed Hirsch (http://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Kindergartner-Needs-Know/dp/0385318413/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297004825&sr=8-1).

[chiisai]

Thanks, Katigre - I see there's a book for each grade. I appreciate the link. Looking at them now.

[Green_Tea]

I was reading the last thread and I have a lot of questions.

I would like to know what kinds of things we should focus on outside of school, things that are not being covered, etc, in elementary. Or just any thoughts or things I may want to consider - I have a DS starting K in the fall. I'm clarifying this, thanks Catherine, i'm not so concerned with kindergarten, moreso as they move up in grades. Without my own experiences yet, i'm not entirely sure the questions to ask. Maybe, how to help him with "logic" exercises as he gets older? For k, i'll be happy if he just plays.

Also, a colleague mentioned that he cannot get through all the homework for his 2nd grader. He has tutors to help with studying, and he recommended that if we can afford it, to have someone just come help to oversee getting all the homework done.

He also mentioned one of the tutors said that teachers often can only get to introduction of concepts, and the learning has to take place outside of school.

This thread is all over the place, sorry. I guess I am just wondering what to expect.

Thank you, I hope I don't upset anyone, I'm just curious and nervous.

I think you need to take a "wait and see and respond as necessary" approach. I have a DD in 1st grade and a DD in 2nd. We have never had an issue with getting through the homework and I honestly don't feel as though there are gaping holes in the curriculum or in their teachers' abilities to meet their needs.

It can be very disconcerting to read threads in which many people have lots of concerns about their kids and the shortcomings of their schools, but it's worth pointing out that people (IRL and online) are more likely to participate in such conversations when something is wrong, not when something is right. You rarely hear from the people who don't need to hire a tutor or whose kids have perfectly adequate and positive school experiences, but these people, by and large, are the majority. So try not to worry about a problem that might not exist. Just take it a step at a time, and take action if it becomes necessary.

ETA: It has not been *my* experience that teachers only get to the "introduction of topics" and that most learning must take place outside of school. Will your son be attending the same school as your coworker's child?

[bubbaray]

I think you need to take a "wait and see and respond as necessary" approach.




:yeahthat:

[chiisai]

So, re: the wait and see responses... Obviously, not getting through homework is a clear sign of something going on (and whether i say, "whatever, it just doesn't get done" or we try to keep up with it is a decision at that time).

But, as far as things *not* getting taught, like logic, or, other concepts, etc., how would I know that there are issues. perhaps it's a *you'll know it when you see it*. Maybe looking at things that classically should be known, and then seeing if that's happening.

Thanks for your responses, both of you. :)

Maybe for the teachers - are there things you see that aren't being done, that you wish were? If so, what kinds of things?

[salsah]

I think you need to take a "wait and see and respond as necessary" approach.

absolutely agree. dd1 is in kindergarten at what is supposed to be a good school. unfortunately, there were some disappointing surprises. most notably, there is huge discrepancy in what she is learning compared to what her friends in another K class at the same school are learning. same school, same grade, same year, but two different teachers resulting in two drastically different experiences.

[erosenst]

A few different, but related thoughts. We're at one of the top three-ish school districts in our state. At the K orientation, teachers asked that kids entering school be able to:

* tie their shoes
* zip their zippers
* recognize their name in writing
* write their name
* be read to every night

So I wouldn't stress too much about K prep, other than maybe working on the first two which I hadn't thought much about. There were all different levels of reading/reading readiness, etc...and a LOT changed during the year. As you may have read in another thread, the K teachers were at best average...but the first grade teachers are great. I think that drives a lot of the 'wait and see' comments - it depends on your kid and the way he/she clicks (or doesn't) with the teacher and the teacher's style and expectation. It also depends on how quickly he does (or doesn't) mature - to stereotype wildly, a boy may have trouble developing the necessary attention span and behavior to succeed without some help.

Even when there's homework in K, it's usually very very brief - more to get them used to the idea. It's a great time to establish homework habits - where it will be done, when it will be done, what can't happen til it's done. (For example, at our house, there's no talk of watching tv, for however short of a time, until homework is done.) It's also a time for you to learn your style about helping with homework. It's tempting to do it for them, especially if they have a little project to do. IMHO, it's essential that you learn to refrain. It won't look as nice as if you did it...but your child will learn much more if you don't. Any decent teacher can tell the difference,at least at this age, between work a parent and work a child did. (One of the things I love about our school is that projects specifically state what the parents can and can't do - for example, it will say "parents can help find xxxx on the internet, but from there the child should x, y and z". The evaluation criteria specifically state that all work must be done by the child to receive the highest 'score'.) Are you going to review all homework in detail, having the child correct issues? Or are you only going to answer questions as they're asked, and let the teacher indicate any errors? Etc Etc

As far as tutoring...I think a lot of it is cultural. There is a relatively large Asian and Indian population at our school. Many of those kids receive tutoring...even when they're excelling in the full-time gifted and talented program that starts in second grade. Some is viewed as enrichment, some as just 'that's what we do'. IMHO it's not needed in the vast majority of cases, and takes away time from playing and other equally important things.

Just reread - your colleague may be having trouble with the math curriculum. A lot of schools use Everyday Math, which is a very very different approach than many of us learned. There are parent handouts that go with each unit. If your school uses this program and you don't get the handouts, you can find them online. It helps tremendously to look at the homework each night starting in first grade - it's a spiral curriculum that builds on itself, and you need to understand all of the concepts as they're presented. I am not a math whiz by any stretch, and have no problems helping DD. DH wasn't patient enough to scan her homework from the beginning, and already has trouble helping her.

Also, depending on the school district, the teacher may be spending a fair amount of time teaching to the testing required by No Child Left Behind. (Don't get me started...) If that is the case, your colleague may be right that there is a fair amount of stuff that has to be done via homework outside of the classroom, and concepts may not have been fully developed in class. At the second grade level (at least from what we've seen) it still should be easily manageable.

You specifically mention learning logic. If that's something that's important to you, you can make sure you have some of the 'building blocks' at home - tangrams, mancalla (maybe need to wait a little while on that one), any of the ThinkFun games (again may need to wait a little while for those - they're challenging for my 7 year old who is good at math and has good spatial skills.)

Sorry this got long - but hope it helps....

[jk3]

I think you need to take a "wait and see and respond as necessary" approach. I have a DD in 1st grade and a DD in 2nd. We have never had an issue with getting through the homework and I honestly don't feel as though there are gaping holes in the curriculum or in their teachers' abilities to meet their needs.

It can be very disconcerting to read threads in which many people have lots of concerns about their kids and the shortcomings of their schools, but it's worth pointing out that people (IRL and online) are more likely to participate in such conversations when something is wrong, not when something is right. You rarely hear from the people who don't need to hire a tutor or whose kids have perfectly adequate and positive school experiences, but these people, by and large, are the majority. So try not to worry about a problem that might not exist. Just take it a step at a time, and take action if it becomes necessary.

ETA: It has not been *my* experience that teachers only get to the "introduction of topics" and that most learning must take place outside of school. Will your son be attending the same school as your coworker's child?

I completely agree. The complainers always complain and they tend to have the loudest voices. Every school is different and our children's needs differ so it's best not to stress ahead of time. Kindergarten is an exciting time.

[chiisai]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I appreciate your time in responding. :)

I will revisit later one DS is out of K, and into the grades. I'm not so much concerned about k. For K, I'll have concerns if there is more work than play.

[egoldber]

Just a few thoughts to add.


Also, a colleague mentioned that he cannot get through all the homework for his 2nd grader.

This probablty has more to do with this child's individual teacher. In second grade my DD had a small amount of manageable homework. Her third grade teacher gave a totally inappropriate amount of homework (IMO). I was scared for 4th grade, but the level has been MUCH more doable this year. Different teachers do different things and have different perspective on how long an assignment takes.

As for filling in gaps, well no school teaches everything about a topic. There is always more to learn. If you get into it and feel like there are significant gaps, then you can always fill in. But I don't know that I would worry about that now. We have always just done what DD is interested in. She loves ancient history, so we found a summer camp that had that as a theme last summer. She loves math, so I buy her supplemental math and logic workbooks that she does for fun when she wants. She learned the fundamentals of algebra from one of these books last summer.

I know that some parents worry about the curriculum like Everyday Math and if your child's school uses one of those, I would pay more attention to what they are learning. The issue isn't so much the curriculum itself as to how it is implemented. Many schools implement it without the additional training for teachers and some teachers don't understand it very well. Add in the fact that many ES teachers are not that strong in math anyway and there can be issues with it IMO. But I wouldn't buy trouble now, and it's not like any gaps can't be relatively easily filled in.