Asbestos WWYD

[California]

WWYD question (and minor bitch.)

We had a hunch there might be asbestos in the home we're in escrow on, and sure enough it tested positive in the popcorn ceilings and the flooring. Ceilings just a trace amount, flooring has lots of it in there.

Ceiling is in good condition and we'll deal with it later.

Vinyl flooring is torn up a few raggedy inches at a two doors. Which means my babies would be exposed to the asbestos. Not OK.

But... the seller came back with a big N-O on repairing it before we move in. If we want to buy the house we'll have to handle this ourselves.

The flooring is in the kitchen. We plan on fixing up/changing this room in a year when we've saved up more money.

So WWYD? Can you repair spots like this or does it all need to come out? How much of a pain in the butt is this. I don't want to pay for new flooring when I don't know what the new cabinet configuration will be yet. But having my babies exposed to asbestos? No way is that OK with me either.

[Rainbows&Roses]

I would run the other way and quickly.

Asbestos is nothing to mess with and removal is VERY expensive due to worker hazard and waste management.

It is mostly a hazard when not contained so the flooring is a definite issue and I suppose you can repair spots but once you disturb an area, that is how exposure occurs.

Even with it well contained in the ceiling and other areas of the floor, I would be very leery of letting my children live there.

[LMPC]

I would run the other way and quickly.

Asbestos is nothing to mess with and removal is VERY expensive due to worker hazard and waste management.

It is mostly a hazard when not contained so the flooring is a definite issue and I suppose you can repair spots but once you disturb an area, that is how exposure occurs.

Even with it well contained in the ceiling and other areas of the floor, I would be very leery of letting my children live there.

My thoughts exactly! Get out of there now!

[WolfpackMom]

Asbestos is dangerous and crazy expensive to fix, the sellers can't be shocked that it was found. If you say you will walk there is a chance they may change their mind and fix it because they will now have to disclose the asbestos to any future buyers. Even if they do fix it you may want to walk anyways because Im not sure what the ramifications would be when you go to sell later (if you might have to disclose to future buyers there was asbestos but it was covered up or whatever).

[vludmilla]

There is no way I would buy the house and repair it myself. There is no way to be sure what it will cost to remove it and where will you live as it is removed?

[KrisM]

Agreeing with those who say to walk away. Asbestos in floor is fine if it's in good shape, but if it's tearing, it's bad. And, you can't tear it up yourself, you have to have a professional do it. No way.

[doberbrat]

Run, dont walk away.

asbestos removal is hugely expensive to have done. and its absolutely not a diys job. You cant be around when its removed, there are all sorts of expenses with it and who knows where else it is if its in 2 spots in the home already.

[niccig]

Agree with the others. Tell them it's either they fix it or the deal falls through. They will have to disclose it to any other buyer, and if they want to sell they'll have to deal with it, either with you or with someone else.

I would want floor and ceiling dealt with - and they should do it, not negotiate to give $$ back, as it could cost way more than quoted - who knows what's under the floor that needs fixing.

[bubbaray]

I would only purchase if the seller had it remediated professionally and provided you with a certificate from the independent third party contractor. Proper asbestos remediation is VERY expensive.

I would just walk away. No way would I purchase if the seller fixed it themselves or refused to provide a certificate of remediation.

[wellyes]

Do not touch with a 10 foot pole.

[California]

Unfortunately in the area we want to live in this is a very common problem. All the homes are older and even into the 80's (after it wasn't legal) asbestos was still present in building materials. That said, we tested our current home years ago and it is asbestos free-- so asbestos free homes do exist, it's just a roll of the dice on figuring out which ones are and are not!

I think I'll look into seeing how much removal will cost and we'll figure out what to do from there.

[egoldber]

This is very common in the 60s and 70s tract homes in CA. I'm pretty positive the ceiling in our house in San Jose had it. We actually decided NOT to test it because we didn't want to know so we didn't have to disclose it at sale.

For the flooring, can you just re-tile right on top of it? They do this many times and as long as it is sealed and not disturbed I think it would be fine.

I don't think it is that expensive to remediate the ceiling. People did it all the time in our neighborhood (we would see the remediation trucks and signs up when someone did a remodel). I would get an estimate before making any decisions.

[bubbaray]

The problem is now that the existence of the asbestos has been disclosed to both the seller and the buyer. If the OP buys the home without a certificate of remediation (even if it is an easy fix), the OP would have to subsequently disclose the existence of the asbestos if/when they ever sold the house. And, a potential buyer at that time could ask THEM to pay for the remediation.

Even if a purchaser was intending on leveling the home, once there is known asbestos, the whole site has to be treated as a hazard.

[wellyes]

The problem is now that the existence of the asbestos has been disclosed to both the seller and the buyer. If the OP buys the home without a certificate of remediation (even if it is an easy fix), the OP would have to subsequently disclose the existence of the asbestos if/when they ever sold the house. And, a potential buyer at that time could ask THEM to pay for the remediation.

Even if a purchaser was intending on leveling the home, once there is known asbestos, the whole site has to be treated as a hazard.
Yes. Health issues, expensive updates plus legal issues down the road..... I would at minimum expect a lot of concessions from the seller now. They are in a bad spot (which the op will also ultimately find herself in if she does,t remove the aesbestoes).

[California]

What is a certificate of remediation?

I talked to a couple of local removal companies and because the areas are so small it will be around $1K to get the ceilings and flooring handled, which includes all the haz-mat preparation, disposal, post testing of air quality and proof that the work was done. Phew!! We'll get a written estimate from one company next week. The insulation in the house tested asbestos-free. We will then go back to the seller and push again to have her carry some of the costs.

If the flooring didn't have two frayed spots we would just put new flooring over it, as a previous poster mentioned. But because it's damanged, asbestos fibers may be released into the air so it needs to be fixed. It's exactly three darn damanged tiles... who knew something so little could cause such big problems!!!

[WatchingThemGrow]

$1K to get everything fixed doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, esp if you can get the seller to split it. We'll prob. be looking at a similar problem when we buy.

[robinsmommy]

Um, having BTDT, 1K seems low - maybe disposal there costs less. Before entering into that, I might check in with your local authority who handles that stuff (might be a clean air agency, health dept or other with the local gov't) and ask lots of questions about what to look for to make sure things are done right. They probably won't recommend a contractor, but can help you know more. (things like making sure the HVAC is off while all work is done, etc)

Have the removers actually been on site and looked at stuff? I'd hate to commit and find out it costs more (like if the ceiling was painted over, is therefore harder to wet down and remove safely, etc). Also consider having the post work air tests done by an outside source.

Is the insulation vermiculite? That I wouldn't care to buy a house with - and if they test it, they have to dig down to the bottom, where the asbestos-dust settles to get an accurate test. And it's really messy if it's in the walls as well.

Asbestos will be in most houses older than 1990's to some degree (duct insulation, plaster patch, flooring glue or flooring) - better to know that the removal was done properly than by a homeowner DIY'er who messed things up remodeling without testing, IMHO.

[niccig]

If it's only 1K then have the owner do it...and make sure it's tested by a different company. As other's said, you have to disclose this to future sellers and need that certificate/new test to show none left in the house.

They're really arguing over 1K to have it removed..they'll lose a sale on 1K?? Crazy.

I still think it should be owner's hassle as it could cost much more than 1K and you won't know unless you start.

I would not buy a house that had tiles over absetos flooring. Who knows if a few years later a repair would be needed and I as the new home owner will now have to pay for the remediation. I would want everything gone, before I would let my son live there.

We bought a 1940s house, paint in excellent condition, we were told no known lead, but no tests done. We were told because of age, chance it was there, but all in good condition, so do not worry. At DS's one year check up, blood test showed slightly high levels of lead, not high enough to cause issues, but higher than a dr. Sees in kids in our area. We got someone in to test, and highest levels in windows in DS's room, but the paint was in good shape. Turns out, that doesn't matter, it's in dust as window raised/lowered etc. All the window sashes had lead paint, front door and back door. Replacement over 15k - lots of big windows. We opted to have them removed, paint stripped off site, repainted. Still cost us over 5k. Do I wish I had insisted on a lead test- you bet, as then previous owner carry these costs.

We have to legally disclose there was lead paint, inspector was very clear that if we found something, we would have to deal with it, as difficult to sell. We knew we would fix it, as our son lives in this house.

Next house will be tested for everything.

[California]

The house went through an extensive remodel/addition eight years ago, so most of it was built after asbestos and lead stopped being used. The tiny kitchen with the vinyl flooring didn't get updated, and that's what we've got to handle.

Niccig, did you use a lab to test the lead in the paint? I just have the Home Depot testers. The windows were all replaced in the remodel. The insulation is almost all roll out/newer from the remodel. The one area with older insulation around the furnace pipes in the attic tested asbestos free. I will ask the company about the asbestos dust settling and if that changes the testing.

A company (not the testing company-- that one doesn't do removal) is coming out to give us a written estimate. Hoping it all works out with the seller to get the vinyl up, the ceilings scraped (which tested for a trace amount-- low enough that we could if we wanted take it to the dump without special haz mat fees) and put this behind us!!!! Still not sure what we'll do with the bare kitchen floors, which is where this whole thread started.

[TwinFoxes]

Well, I'm of the run don't walk camp. I grew up in California and house hunted there. I had a friend who sat on a mesothelioma jury. I wouldn't do it. And Melissa makes a very good point about future disclosures. California has very strict disclosure laws.

BUT, if you do stick with it, I think poster "ha98..." had asbestos tiles in her California house. She might be able to give you some BTDT info.

[niccig]

The house went through an extensive remodel/addition eight years ago, so most of it was built after asbestos and lead stopped being used. The tiny kitchen with the vinyl flooring didn't get updated, and that's what we've got to handle.

Niccig, did you use a lab to test the lead in the paint? I just have the Home Depot testers. The windows were all replaced in the remodel. The insulation is almost all roll out/newer from the remodel. The one area with older insulation around the furnace pipes in the attic tested asbestos free. I will ask the company about the asbestos dust settling and if that changes the testing.
.

We got an inspector to the house, he tested every door, trim, wall, tile, flooring material in the house. I think it was Consumer Reports that tested the Home Depot type lead tests and found they gave false negative and false positive results. The inspector was maybe $300. We found lead in places we would not have known eg. front door, trim around the front door, garage door etc. We have one bathroom with lead glaze in the tiles, it's fine but we want to renovate it eventually and then it will be an issue.

It's good that most of the house has been updated, but if you ever want to renovate that kitchen you'll have to deal with the asbsetos tile. I would get the sellers to cover that...and put down a cheapish linoleum until you're ready to redo the kitchen.