What do you think about snap 'n go type stroller frames and car seat adapters?

[arivecchi]

Poll coming.

[lowrioh]

We used ours for quick in and out trips but for walks in the neighborhood we just put DD in the Indie or BJCED with the seat reclined.

[BabyBearsMom]

I used a car seat adapter a bit when DD was really little (like 4 months and under). It was really helpful if I had DD and had to run into the grocery store for a gallon of milk. If DD was going to be out of the car for more than 10 or 15 minutes, I just put her in the reclined stroller or wore her. But for a less than 15 minute errand, it helps. Especially when I was a new mom and it would take me 15 minutes just to get her in and out of the seat because I was so worried about hurting her or not doing it right.

[edurnemk]

I kept our Vista's car seat adapter in the trunk in case we needed it, which basically meant if DS had fallen asleep in the car and I was running errands like picking up dry-cleaning, stopping at CVS for a prescription, quick run to the grocery store. If he was awake we always transferred him to the stroller bassinet/seat. He HATED the car seat, and I always thought he looked much comfier in the stroller seat. When we did use it, I always had my carrier in the stroller basket, because if he woke up I'd have to transfer him to the carrier immediately, he'd scream his head off in the car seat, but not the stroller seat. So we didn't use it very often.

I'm glad I didn't buy a SNG because it's just one more thing to store and the adapter works the same way and the Vista is way easier to steer. I agree with the "car seats are for cars" philosophy but I like having the option of the adapter when necessary.

[toystorymama]

Never used one. If we used the stroller we put DS in the bassinet. We did sometimes just carry the carseat itself though, but I never put the carseat in the stroller.

[ohsara430]

I answered that I used it a ton, but really my answer is used it a ton and useful for quick trips, limited use. We have a SNG and used it a ton the first 3-4 months because of lots of dr. appointments, quick trip to grocery store, etc. But if we went to the mall for a few hours we usually put her in the stroller.

I bought our SNG used on CL for $15 and for that price it was a piece of baby gear I wouldn't have wanted to live without. If I had to pay full price though, eh maybe not.

[MamaBear]

I'm firmly in the first camp. I have adapters for each of my strollers, and use them for quick errands. I used one on Monday for preschool drop-off: it was raining in buckets and I had a basket filled with homemade sugar cookie valentines to get inside, as well as the kids. Transfering the baby to the stroller seat in that kind of rain would've gotten him completely drenched, and I couldn't have carried everything in on my own.

[DebbieJ]

I used a SnG with DS2 and it was INVALUABLE!!!! DS1 is in school all day and we used it mostly for drop off/pickup. In the cold Midwest, it was great to not have to worry about bundling DS2 up--we just had the car seat cover on and that was all we needed. It got used for 15 mins at a time MAX, but it was used daily. I would never use it as my main stroller.

We are close enough to walk to school when it's nice out and when we do that we used the P3 or the jogging stroller (an old Dreamer Designs from CL).

[crl]

I never had a stroller that took a car seat (you can buy the adaptor, but I didn't) when dd was still in an infant seat. She woke up when you took the bucket out of the base in the car anyway.

Also, this is probably somewhat lifestyle dependent. I walk a ton. So dd went straight into the stroller for walks. When we were in the car, I rarely had a stroller, just used my pikkolo or mei tai and carried her. That was easiest for me.

And I admit that I was afraid I would get lazy and over use the carseat option if the stroller took one so I decided not to have the option at all. I was a bit paranoid about the breathing issue. (Not so much about the flat head since dd rolled over at 4 weeks, 4 days.)

Catherine

[Kaylee31]

I think they are great for quick errands. I used my snugrider frame a lot during DS' first winter. At that point, the carseat was getting to heavy to lug around with him in it. It was so convenient to keep him warm & cozy in the carseat when we went into Blockbuster or the library or something. I also loved the huge basket on it. Plus it was nice when I had a lot of stuff to carry when I got home (townhouse and we park in a lot). I just popped his seat in the frame, loaded up the basket, and my arms weren't tired by the time we got to the front door.

[twowhat?]

Could not have survived without one:)

[jbbhb]

I agree, super convenient for quick trips only and when they are really little. I hate using mine now and avoid if possible, but my husband still loves it for quick trips. I just can't easily lift a 20+ lb baby and carseat comfortably, plus the baby HATES it.

[arivecchi]

I am not a fan. Never used either one. I am glad that people here use them for limited period of time! :thumbsup: I just cringe at the overuse I see sometimes and kinda wish they were not compatible to prevent that kind of situation.

[Mommaof3]

I always thought they were such a waste when I had my girls but got one with DS because it was a good deal and the car seat came with it. I love it for errands, but hate it for walks.

[golightly1118]

I have a SNG, and we did use it for quick trips a lot when DD was little-up until she was about seven-eight months old. If we were going to be out for longer than twenty minutes or so, I'd either wear her or put her in the regular stroller. Also, about that age is when she was able to ride in a shopping cart easily. I also cringe when I see babies over six months in the car seat for a long time-I know my munchkin hated the car seat after six months, so I'd bet those are not happy babies!

[BabyBearsMom]

I am not a fan. Never used either one. I am glad that people here use them for limited period of time! :thumbsup: I just cringe at the overuse I see sometimes and kinda wish they were not compatible to prevent that kind of situation.

I cringe when I see people "off-roading" with them. I once had a mother tell me at the park that I shouldn't have DD in just the stroller because it didn't support her neck enough on the bumps, and I should have her in the car seat attached to the stroller! Sigh!

[roseyloxs]

I cringe when I see people "off-roading" with them. I once had a mother tell me at the park that I shouldn't have DD in just the stroller because it didn't support her neck enough on the bumps, and I should have her in the car seat attached to the stroller! Sigh!

This kind of information needs to be coming from pediatricians. I personally had no idea about the issues with car seats and (wrongly) ASSuMEd that car seats were safer as well. :6: Before finding this site I had NEVER heard anyone tell me to limit car seat use and my oldest is almost 4 years old!

[Blackbird711]

We're not expecting our first until May, but after spending time on this board I made sure to ask all three of the pediatricians we interviewed (and our OB, who is a mom of two under 4) about their opinion on car seats use with strollers. All three (and they are all EXTREMELY well-respected pediatricians affiliated with world-class research and teaching hospitals in San Francisco) said basically the same thing: it's not a big deal especially if it makes mom's life easier, but better not to have the baby in there for hours at a time. I was a little surprised, having expected to hear very clear and straightforward advice one way or the other. My sense is that pediatricians are very wary of coming down hard on one side or the other, at risk of alienating a subset of parents regardless of what they say. And/or, the medical world still is not in agreement about the risks vs benefits.

So even when you ask your pediatrician (or multiple pediatricians) the answer you get may not be very helpful... frustrating to those of us who are doing everything we can to figure out what will be best for our baby when they arrive.

[Multimama]

Mine was invaluable to me for plane travel in the first four months of DS's life, but if we ever have a #2 I hope to avoid both the earlier air travel and the snap n go. Also I struggled to get a handle on babywearing after my c-section, but I think I'd be more successful a second time around.

I have to say though, the 3 wheel Zapp is one good looking snap n go!

[arivecchi]

Blackbird, I have found that pediatricians are pretty clueless about car seat isues for the most part. For example, many of them do not know anything about the benefits of extended rear facing.

[MamaBear]

Mine was invaluable to me for plane travel in the first four months of DS's life, but if we ever have a #2 I hope to avoid both the earlier air travel and the snap n go.

By comparison, we've never even taken an adapter with us when we travel. It's no fun lugging a carseat through the airport, but that's what I've done.

[crl]

Blackbird, I have found that pediatricians are pretty clueless about car seat isues for the most part. For example, many of them do not know anything about the benefits of extended rear facing.

Also pretty clueless about strollers. My ped, who is quite progressive and very interested in newborns, asked me all kinds of questions about my MB Swift with snuzzler combo when dd was a newborn because he had parents asking him stroller questions and he had no idea how to answer them.

Catherine

[Blackbird711]

Also pretty clueless about strollers. My ped, who is quite progressive and very interested in newborns, asked me all kinds of questions about my MB Swift with snuzzler combo when dd was a newborn because he had parents asking him stroller questions and he had no idea how to answer them.

Catherine

Wow, this is kind of shocking. I know that doctors have incredibly stressful jobs and that it's hard to keep up with all the latest info, but geez.

If most peds aren't paying attention to this, then who in the medical field is actually doing the research and getting the info out there?

[Multimama]

By comparison, we've never even taken an adapter with us when we travel. It's no fun lugging a carseat through the airport, but that's what I've done.

So I guess you don't buy seats for your kids when they fly? I believe that carseats are for cars....and for planes. :) I would never fly with an infant without a carseat unless it was an emergency situation.

[carolinamama]

Never used a travel system type contraption for DS1. I only had one kid, I could try to be home for naps more, and he didn't like his carseat. We switched him over to his convertible seat by 8 weeks because of his severe dislike of his infant seat. I used carriers quite a bit for him. Fastforward to DS2. I was running DS1 into preschool, into his gymnastics and science classes, and had to do more errands with a baby in tow. I bought a Mac ET and it was great for the quick in and out runs. DS2 loved his infant seat and would stay asleep while I did dropoffs. I just can't imagine waking him everytime I had to run into a quick dropoff or errand to put him in a carrier or directly into a stroller. Not to mention that DS2 loathed carriers. He thought he should be nursing anytime he was that close to me and just cried if I didn't bf him. That kinda defeats the convenience of the carrier for errands etc. I was so sad when he didn't like the Ergo like DS1 because I loved that carrier. I know they get a bad rap around here, but I think there is an appropriate time and place for them. Just not overuse of them.

[edurnemk]

So I guess you don't buy seats for your kids when they fly? I believe that carseats are for cars....and for planes. :) I would never fly with an infant without a carseat unless it was an emergency situation.

I'm not MamaBear, but from her response "It's no fun lugging a carseat through the airport, but that's what I've done." I interpreted the opposite, that she does carry the car seat to the plane, but not on the stroller.

[Multimama]

I'm not MamaBear, but from her response "It's no fun lugging a carseat through the airport, but that's what I've done." I interpreted the opposite, that she does carry the car seat to the plane, but not on the stroller.

Ah, I see. I was interpreting the "but that's what I've done" as not bring the carseat through the airport.

I don't see any way I could have carried the baby and the carseat through the airport with other luggage, especially with the restrictions on how much weight you should carry after surgery. (Even the way we did it I worry I carried too much too soon.) Now that I am a proficient babywearer things would be different, I think, but at the time it really was indispensable.

ETA: Of course, I unfortunately hadn't discovered these boards back then and was living overseas. If I'd been able to get advice from you ladies back then I might have seen options I didn't know about.

[crl]

Well, I put the baby in the seat of the stroller and bungie corded the infant car seat to the back of the stroller (cybex onyx). So the baby was not in the carseat in the airport, but I had the car seat with me and used it in the airplane seat that I had purchased for that express purpose. So it is definitely possible to do use the car seat on the plane and not put the baby in the carseat in the airport.

Catherine

[crl]

Wow, this is kind of shocking. I know that doctors have incredibly stressful jobs and that it's hard to keep up with all the latest info, but geez.

If most peds aren't paying attention to this, then who in the medical field is actually doing the research and getting the info out there?

Well, I think of the stroller stuff as more about baby gear. I assume my ped is pretty busy keeping up with the latest on vaccines and ear ache treatments and such. It just wouldn't occur to me to ask him about baby gear except of really specific to medical issue things. I was impressed that he was interested at all.

Catherine

[edurnemk]

Ah, I see. I was interpreting the "but that's what I've done" as not bring the carseat through the airport.

I don't see any way I could have carried the baby and the carseat through the airport with other luggage, especially with the restrictions on how much weight you should carry after surgery. (Even the way we did it I worry I carried too much too soon.) Now that I am a proficient babywearer things would be different, I think, but at the time it really was indispensable.

Of course, you do what you have to. I didn't fly until DS was 2 months (and I would no have wanted to fly earlier than that). And he HATED the infant seat, so I had to put DS on the stroller seat and carry the infant seat, or wear DS and push stroller with the empty car seat on it. Especially since we needed the stroller at our destination, so I had to bring the stroller seat as well as the car seat. You just need to figure out what works for you and your baby. I'm pretty sure we'll use the car seat adapter more frequently with the next baby (we also live in the suburbs now, more car and less walking)

[SnuggleBuggles]

Wow, this is kind of shocking. I know that doctors have incredibly stressful jobs and that it's hard to keep up with all the latest info, but geez.

If most peds aren't paying attention to this, then who in the medical field is actually doing the research and getting the info out there?

I don't expect a pediatrician to know about things that are parenting things. Even with things like sleep and discipline I find that they don't know much- they often knows what worked for them if they had kids but they aren't experts on it. I only really expect them to know about illnesses and well child information (milestones...). Everything else, even vaccines (because even they might have biases), I listen to what they have to say then research on my own. Annoying but after enough encounters with peds that just don't seem to be up on parenting issues, I gave up asking.



To answer OP- with a 5.5 year gap I didn't find a travel system or carseat carrier thing to be useful or necessary. I might have used it with each kid like 5 times each. Babies were worn or reclined in a stroller.

Beth

[AidanRyanMom]

I just bought a used snap n go off CL for $20. I was a little worried that if I bought the adapter to go with the Vista, I'd over use it. Besides, I'm dying to use that super cute bassinet :love-retry:. That said, I will definitely use the carseat / snap n go combo when flying.

[MamaBear]

So I guess you don't buy seats for your kids when they fly? I believe that carseats are for cars....and for planes. :) I would never fly with an infant without a carseat unless it was an emergency situation.

I do, I just carry the carseats. The worst was travelling alone with a toddler, a stroller, and a Marathon!

[MamaBear]

I'm not MamaBear, but from her response "It's no fun lugging a carseat through the airport, but that's what I've done." I interpreted the opposite, that she does carry the car seat to the plane, but not on the stroller.

:yeahthat:

Thanks!

[Multimama]

I do, I just carry the carseats. The worst was travelling alone with a toddler, a stroller, and a Marathon!

Hmm. Well, I still don't think this would have worked in my special circumstances. DS and his convertible were 1,000 times easier for me than traveling with a newborn post c-section as a first time mom.

My point was really only that I think even if individual moms find they don't need or want to use strollers with carseats, they should try not to judge others who make other choices. Sometimes we just don't know what else is going on for a mom. People are almost always doing the best they can with the information, resources and finances they have available. That's what I was doing for my newborn too.

[Pinky]

We used the Maclaren Easy Traveller until my LO was around 4 months old or so... basically just for trips in the library, the grocery, doctors visits etc. She was never in it for very long at a time.

[MamaBear]

My point was really only that I think even if individual moms find they don't need or want to use strollers with carseats, they should try not to judge others who make other choices. Sometimes we just don't know what else is going on for a mom. People are almost always doing the best they can with the information, resources and finances they have available. That's what I was doing for my newborn too.

Totally agree!

[scriptkitten]

i'm not a fan, never used one, and stayed strong in my resolve despite everyone telling me that i needed one with twins.

[sweetsoul99]

We couldn't afford a reversible stroller and I wanted to be able to see and talk to my infants on walks and even errands. To me this was more important than anything

[Multimama]

Totally agree!

*DELETED*

I agree with what the PP said about not being able to afford a reversible. I think that is a really big factor for so many moms. Even if they could afford one they may not even know reversible strollers exist. (I really don't think I did.) I'm so glad strollers like the Indigo are out there now! I'm also very glad for this forum and others like it where people can get information that just isn't in the mainstream and that can open up funds for a more expensive/versatile stroller (like that you can use a convertible from birth etc.). Stuff we've all talked about before on this forum. :)

[ckelly]

Can someone link me to some good info on not using a car seat with a stroller. I'd never really heard of it before. Dd lived in her infant seat. She loved it! (bag over head)

[arivecchi]

This monster thread has several links to information on the subject.

http://www.windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=370312&highlight=what+do+we+think+about+the+recommendatio n

[PGTB]

We don't have a car, so our use of a carseat is limited. We have an adapter for our Bee+ which we use whenever traveling by car or plane.

The car seat goes on top of the stroller seat, so we always have our stroller when needing to walk. We decide whether DS goes on top of the stroller in a car seat or not depending on the situation. When we go somewhere where we need to bring our carseat inside with us DS stays in the carseat and if going for a walk, DS goes into the stroller seat. At the airport DS is in the car seat while strolling through and out of the seat when waiting for a flight or on the flight when not sleeping (it's becoming very difficult to keep him inside a car seat when awake). I hate baby carriers, just prefer to carry him in my arms when needed for a short time, so having the Bee frame with the car seat has been a savior.

I didn't know how to vote, since we don't use a car for quick errands, but for our purposes (mainly travel or visiting people) car seat adapters are awesome IMO, as I hate carrying anything.

I always feel terrible having DS stuck in a car seat during the long 5 hour drives we take to see ILs. We usually make a short stop to let him stretch out. But occupying him during the drive when he awake - now that's another problem! :banghead:

[miamimommy]

This kind of information needs to be coming from pediatricians. I personally had no idea about the issues with car seats and (wrongly) ASSuMEd that car seats were safer as well. :6: Before finding this site I had NEVER heard anyone tell me to limit car seat use and my oldest is almost 4 years old!

i totally agree with you! i took my DD to all her dr visits in the SNG and i was never told it was bad. this board is the first place i've ever heard about the issues w carseats. in fact, recently i posted something on babycenter about telling my nanny to limit carseat &SNG use to no more than 20 min and all these mothers freaked out asking WHY?? they said if carseats were bad then all their kids were messed up b/c they all exclusively used carseats in the first couple months of baby's life.

also, my sisterinlaw's DD has colic and only place she felt relief was in carseat. so my SIL asked pediatrician about it and PEDIATRICIAN SAID IT WAS FINE FOR HER TO USE ALL DAY...EVEN TO SLEEP IN EVERY NIGHT!!

[PGTB]

i totally agree with you! i took my DD to all her dr visits in the SNG and i was never told it was bad. this board is the first place i've ever heard about the issues w carseats. in fact, recently i posted something on babycenter about telling my nanny to limit carseat &SNG use to no more than 20 min and all these mothers freaked out asking WHY?? they said if carseats were bad then all their kids were messed up b/c they all exclusively used carseats in the first couple months of baby's life.

also, my sisterinlaw's DD has colic and only place she felt relief was in carseat. so my SIL asked pediatrician about it and PEDIATRICIAN SAID IT WAS FINE FOR HER TO USE ALL DAY...EVEN TO SLEEP IN EVERY NIGHT!!

Wow, I am not surprised though as I heard this before myself. Either a car seat, or bouncy/swing is what people end up resorting to when needing to elevate infant's head. But I would want the Ped's to at least be aware that carseats are not great/not intended for indoor use (continuous use) as their materials contain lots of flame retardants and other chemicals (for accident protection).

[PGTB]

Lots of people use car seats as bassinets with their stroller frames before they can put the baby into the stroller seat. And I am not talking about people living in car dependent places, but in the city and not owning any cars.

I know two people at least: one used the car seat with SNG exclusively till at 3 months they transferred the baby into the Maclaren umbrella. Another one had a BOB and used a car seat before the baby was old enough to use the seat. They both don't have cars, so used the carseats really as bassinets and for all of their strolling! maclaren or BOB (strollers of their choice) don't offer carrycot option, right? So, I guess, they just didn't feel like spending money for extra bassinet stroller for limited use.

It's good that many AT strollers now offer the carrycot option, but often people don't end up wanting to pay for them. I see lots of BJCMs with car seats on top, only saw the bassinet on it once. No wonder though, because BJ bassinet costs more than the actual stroller. If cheaper option existed and people were aware, I am sure they would use them more.

Now, there is Indigo I guess, so there are options for less than $150, but then again, people may not want to use a stroller like Indigo in the city for frequent strolling after they are done with the bassinet. Storage is also a concern for many families out here that may not have space for 2 strollers. Buying one stroller with the bassinet and then selling it to get another stroller of choice would be their only option and many don't want to deal with it. Lucky are those who can afford the Bugaboos, Vistas and the like or spend 150-200 on a limited use bassinet to go with their AT stroller. What about those who just want to have an umbrella as their only stroller?

[Blackbird711]

Lots of people use car seats as bassinets with their stroller frames before they can put the baby into the stroller seat. And I am not talking about people living in car dependent places, but in the city and not owning any cars.

It's good that many AT strollers now offer the carrycot option, but often people don't end up wanting to pay for them. I see lots of BJCMs with car seats on top, only saw the bassinet on it once. No wonder though, because BJ bassinet costs more than the actual stroller. If cheaper option existed and people were aware, I am sure they would use them more.

Now, there is Indigo I guess, so there are options for less than $150, but then again, people may not want to use a stroller like Indigo in the city for frequent strolling after they are done with the bassinet. Storage is also a concern for many families out here that may not have space for 2 strollers. Buying one stroller with the bassinet and then selling it to get another stroller of choice would be their only option and many don't want to deal with it. Lucky are those who can afford the Bugaboos, Vistas and the like or spend 150-200 on a limited use bassinet to go with their AT stroller. What about those who just want to have an umbrella as their only stroller?

:yeahthat:
I think that a lot of this comes down to economics. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to consider use of a bassinet or multiple strollers because we can afford it, but many are not. With everything that a baby requires you to purchase, even if you go very bare-bones, it can be an economic hardship on families and tough decisions about where to put your money have to be made. I think until there are VERY clear guidelines, widely published in the media and disseminated by both pediatricians and OBs (because let's face it, most folks purchase all this stuff before they ever talk to a ped), and until there are more affordable infant-safe and rear-facing option strollers out there, car seat stroller use will continue to be the norm. Many folks simply cannot afford the luxury of focusing their funds in this area at the expense of the many other things they need to buy when the baby comes.

[arivecchi]

There are many affordable strollers with full recline and/or reversible seats nowadays, so I don't really think that is the issue at all. Honestly, I think the problem is that most new parents think the normal thing to do is to plop their newborns into their car seats because that is what they are used to seeing so they think it is ok.

I hope sites like this one help to spread the word that car seat usage should be minimal.

[crl]

You definitely do not need a bassinet to use a stroller with a newborn. Mine went straight into my fully reclined MB Swift with a snuzzler.

I think some of the Cybex umbrellas now have a bassinet option? ETA hmm, guess it is just the Callisto.
http://www.ohbabygifts.com/strollers/bassinet-prams/2010-cybex-callisto-carry-cot.html

Catherine

[Multimama]

You definitely do not need a bassinet to use a stroller with a newborn. Mine went straight into my fully reclined MB Swift with a snuzzler.

:yeahthat: Don't most Graco travel system strollers etc. now recline flat enough for a newborn?

[PGTB]

There are many affordable strollers with full recline and/or reversible seats nowadays, so I don't really think that is the issue at all. Honestly, I think the problem is that most new parents think the normal thing to do is to plop their newborns into their car seats because that is what they are used to seeing so they think it is ok.

I hope sites like this one help to spread the word that car seat usage should be minimal.

Agree. But there is a more to it. The problem here is that the time when the baby needs full recline is very limited, so many folks just don't want to bother thinking hard about their options and/or inconveniencing themselves by having to buy/sell extra strollers. DS only used a bassinet for 2 months and at 3 months was in a Bee's reclined seat. BJCM has a similar recline and is a super popular stroller here. many parents buy them and use them as their one and only. And they don't feel like paying over 200 for a bassinet.

I don't want to blame parents only, stroller manufacturers especially popular ones like BJ, Maclaren, BOB just didn't think hard to make their strollers newborn friendly. So, the options are either to buy extra newborn friendly stroller to go with them, or carry the baby in a carrier, or use a car seat.

Not everyone is comfortable to put the baby into the reclined seat right away. Carseats are thought to be safer, snugglier and also providing parent facing feature many like with newborns. This is why many parents just prefer to use them for newborns.

Take orbit for example. I've seen time and again little babies in the infant car seat in these strollers, I don't think I have ever seen a bassinet used. And these are not poor parents.

for people to stop using them they need to be aware that carseats are dangerous when overused, not just undesirable, there has to be more than just these websites to make a real diff and stroller manufacturers need to do their due diligence as well.

[PGTB]

:yeahthat: Don't most Graco travel system strollers etc. now recline flat enough for a newborn?

Agreed - there are strollers that recline fully enough and there are also 3rd party carrycots/snuzzlers. But, what if you don't like them?

What if you want to have a Maclaren, or a Bob, like my two acquaintances I mentioned? Or a BJCM? And you don't feel like building a stroller collection especially for something that only is used for 3 months max.

[arivecchi]

My kids still nap in the stroller sometimes so I would argue that a flat recline can be used for quite some time. Some Macs have a full recline too! Bobs can be used after 8 weeks so you can always use a carrier before that (or you can get a Mountain Buggy with full recline which is a MUCH better option ;)). Haha.

Where there is a will, there's a way! :D

[crl]

Agreed - there are strollers that recline fully enough and there are also 3rd party carrycots/snuzzlers. But, what if you don't like them?

What if you want to have a Maclaren, or a Bob, like my two acquaintances I mentioned? Or a BJCM? And you don't feel like building a stroller collection especially for something that only is used for 3 months max.

Well, I guess that's their prerogative? There are alternatives, if people don't choose them, I don't really see what anyone can do about it. . . . .

My stollers work from birth on up because they recline flat or nearly so. It isn't like i bought a stroller that ONLY works for the first three months. Instead I did the research and bought something that works for the newborn stage and for the long haul. My only newborn specific accessory for my strollers was a snuzzler. Mine was a hand me down, but they are pretty cheap even brand new.

I suppose more education might lead people to make different choices, but I think it is a lot like many people turn their baby forward facing at one regardless of being told about the benefits of rear facing.

Catherine

[edurnemk]

My kids still nap in the stroller sometimes so I would argue that a flat recline can be used for quite some time. Some Macs have a full recline too!

:yeahthat: DS is 3 and I won't buy strollers without a reclining seat. I just can't imagine him napping in an unreclined stroller.

I think all pre-packaged travel systems come with strollers with full recline (my hated Graco Quattro sure did, and DS rode in that seat from birth). And many people with limited funds tend to go this route, you can get a travel system for under $200. So I don't think it's due to lack of funds, I think it's lack of information. I have friends (well off, and well educated) who said "Use the car seat on the stroller the first months, they are more comfy and cozy and safe". I didn't because DS hated the seat and he looked more comfy on the seat IMO. I hadn't heard of the risks of car seat overuse back then.

[AnnieW625]

I voted I just used one for quick errands, and I only used it with DD2, and the only one I had was on the Vista which has nice sturdy tires.



I agree with what the PP said about not being able to afford a reversible. I think that is a really big factor for so many moms. Even if they could afford one they may not even know reversible strollers exist.

Honestly I think that is a big thing in many parts of the country.


There are many affordable strollers with full recline and/or reversible seats nowadays, so I don't really think that is the issue at all. Honestly, I think the problem is that most new parents think the normal thing to do is to plop their newborns into their car seats because that is what they are used to seeing so they think it is ok.

I hope sites like this one help to spread the word that car seat usage should be minimal.

I hadn't seen a reversable stroller that didn't cost upwards of $500 (Peg Perego Venezia) or $800 (Bugaboo Frog or Cameleon) when I had DD1 in 2006 so I found a used Peg Perego Pliko with a full recline to use until she could hold her head up and then I bought a Maclaren Triumph (could've bought a Techno then too that had a full recline, but that's a whole other story). I would've loved a reversable at that time too, but didn't see the need to spend that much money on a stroller.

Arivecchi is partially right in regards to the reversable strollers as within the last year there have been a couple of more affordable reversable strollers like the Graco Flip It, and the First Years Indigo, but other than that it's the much more expensive strollers many people can't afford or really don't see the need to buy.


Agree. But there is a more to it. The problem here is that the time when the baby needs full recline is very limited, so many folks just don't want to bother thinking hard about their options and/or inconveniencing themselves by having to buy/sell extra strollers. DS only used a bassinet for 2 months and at 3 months was in a Bee's reclined seat. BJCM has a similar recline and is a super popular stroller here. many parents buy them and use them as their one and only. And they don't feel like paying over 200 for a bassinet.

I don't want to blame parents only, stroller manufacturers especially popular ones like BJ, Maclaren, BOB just didn't think hard to make their strollers newborn friendly. So, the options are either to buy extra newborn friendly stroller to go with them, or carry the baby in a carrier, or use a car seat.

Not everyone is comfortable to put the baby into the reclined seat right away. Carseats are thought to be safer, snugglier and also providing parent facing feature many like with newborns. This is why many parents just prefer to use them for newborns.

Take orbit for example. I've seen time and again little babies in the infant car seat in these strollers, I don't think I have ever seen a bassinet used. And these are not poor parents.

for people to stop using them they need to be aware that carseats are dangerous when overused, not just undesirable, there has to be more than just these websites to make a real diff and stroller manufacturers need to do their due diligence as well.

Very excellent points, and my lone point of dissention is that the Maclaren Techno can be used from birth, the recline and the head postioner thing that come with the stroller are awesome. I used it with DD2 when she was about 7lbs, and 3 weeks or so old.

[firemama]

I thought I would love my SNG, and I did at first... I nannied for a family and they had a Graco travel system. I hated that stroller. It was so bulky and hard to get in and out of my Civic trunk. I vowed to get the stroller frame when we had our children. Well, friends gave us their Graco infant seat, so I thought our only option was the Graco SNG or the Baby Trend one. I went with the SNG and loved the cupholder and large basket. Over time, I started not to like it. The cupholder is too shallow and doesn't hold tall drinks. One minor bump, and it flips out. It also doesn't hold SIGG water bottles :( The steering is just okay. It pushes fine, but going over bumps is a PITA. The large basket is great, if you can squeeze whatever you have under the car seat. They didn't leave much room in the design between the seat and the top of the basket. We were also given a free diaper bag. I have to lift the seat off to put it in the basket/take it out. This is so frustrating I can't wait to get our Vista put together (it finally arrived!!)

I also was not aware that car seat use should be kept to a minimum. I only use it for car rides or stroller rides anyway, nothing more. But for our next child, we will be using the bassinet or moby for sure.

I think strollers have come a long way. But there are some seriously bad designs out there. There need to be more affordable, smart strollers.

So I voted using it for small errands because it is light as a feather and easy to get in and out of the trunk. And it will hold plenty of bags in the basket. But I seriously can't wait to sell my SNG!!

[roseyloxs]

And many people with limited funds tend to go this route, you can get a travel system for under $200. So I don't think it's due to lack of funds, I think it's lack of information.

:yeahthat:

If infant car seats remained in the car for use then more people may just opt to buy a convertible car seat from the start. That's a hundred bucks that can go elsewhere. They can buy a rear facing stroller or put that money towards a carrycot/bassinet that could be used for the same time frame.

All that being said I will probably still buy an infant car seat for #3. Both my kids loved their car seat(baby trend flex-loc) and fell asleep almost every time we went in the car. I like the convenience of being able to bring them into the house and not interrupt their naps.

[Multimama]

Agreed - there are strollers that recline fully enough and there are also 3rd party carrycots/snuzzlers. But, what if you don't like them?

Well, I was responding to your argument that limited finances prevent people from using a fully reclining stroller from birth and put them in a position of using a snap n go almost against their will. I was saying that actually many people *own* a fully reclining stroller and don't use it, often those very same people who feel strapped financially when choosing baby accessories.

If they don't *want* to buy a fully reclining stroller or don't *want* to buy one and a Bob, that's their choice. I have educated friends extensively about fully reclining strollers who have never the less chosen to use a snap n go until they could use a non-reclining or semi-reclining stroller. That was their choice. They may have framed it in financial terms, but it wasn't a question of not being able to afford it, it was just a question of not wanting to spend the money. Not being able to afford it and not wanting to spend the money are two very different things.

Often/usually/always those who think they can't afford it just don't have the information necessary to figure out that they can afford it. (The kind of information we here at the BBB love providing!) Those who choose not to pay for it are another group entirely and I agree that it's a lot like rear facing in car seats at that point. You can lead a parent to a convertible, but you can't stop him (or her) from buying the Nautilus for his one year old instead. And will he frame that purchase choice in terms of finances? Sure. Is that what it's about? No way. Same deal with strollers. :)

[sweetsue98]

I think the snap n go stroller is an inexpensive way to get away with not buying a travel system. An infants need for a full recline is short so its a nice option. I don't think an infants should be their car seats for a long period of time if they don't have to be. I wasn't a big fan of carriers especially if my DD was sleeping. I don't wanr to take her out of the car seat and put her in the carrier. In that case the snap n go was easier to use.

[gatorsmom]

I had the double SNG with my twins but not with my first babies. IT WAS INVALUABLE. Seriously, I couldn't have gotten out of the house without it. It had an enormous basket underneath so if I was running out of diapers, I could take all the kids to Target if need be and even fit diapers and other stuff in the bottom of the DSNG basket.

Getting out of the house with twins babies is time consuming and complicated enough. Trying to do that in the winter and take each baby out of their carseat to put in a cold stroller for each errand would have been he11. Seriously, the fact that I could just snap them in and out was a huge stress reliever.

[PGTB]

I suppose more education might lead people to make different choices, but I think it is a lot like many people turn their baby forward facing at one regardless of being told about the benefits of rear facing.

Catherine

You make a good point, even if people know a better choice exists, they still choose otherwise for one reason or another. I am guessing because they think it's not a big deal - as they see so many people do it and there is nothing wrong with their kids. It seems like in order for a better choice to become prevalent there has to be a clear message that the other choice is not only undesirable but downright dangerous, causing permanent damage and even death. Most importantly this message has to be supported by the media, pediatric offices, child care professionals and manufacturers in order to really make a difference.

[Fairy]

I loved my snap and go. I don't have a baby anymore, but snap and go threads get my attention! I was in love with my snap and go, and we used it all the time until DS outgrew his bucket, which was rather quick :-(. I told DH we should have another baby so we can use our snap and go again!

I know the problems with the snap and go. If we had a baby today I might make some changes, but I'd definitely use the s&g to some degree. But back then it was my favorite piece of baby gear ever.

[PGTB]

Well, I was responding to your argument that limited finances prevent people from using a fully reclining stroller from birth and put them in a position of using a snap n go almost against their will.
This is a much stronger statement than what I actually was saying.
I didn't say people are forced to use carseats against their will, this has nothing to do with will, but with the fact that choices are limited especially for those with very limited funds.

People with limited funds have a harder time in trying to keep their babies out of the carseats if they don't wish to put them directly into forward facing stroller seats from birth. Bassinet strollers are usually out of their reach.

These people usually tend to have jobs where they don't have internet access or down time to browse various parenting websites or forums. They also tend to have more limited time off at home to do research.

Many people trust sales personnel at the baby stores to help them make a choice, sales personnel may not necessarily be educated in this matter, neither are pediatric offices.

[Multimama]

This is a much stronger statement than what I actually was saying.
I didn't say people are forced to use carseats against their will, this has nothing to do with will, but with the fact that choices are limited especially for those with very limited funds.

People with limited funds have a harder time in trying to keep their babies out of the carseats if they don't wish to put them directly into forward facing stroller seats from birth. Bassinet strollers are usually out of their reach.

These people usually tend to have jobs where they don't have internet access or down time to browse various parenting websites or forums. They also tend to have more limited time off at home to do research.

Many people trust sales personnel at the baby stores to help them make a choice, sales personnel may not necessarily be educated in this matter, neither are pediatric offices.

I agree with all of those statements, except that I don't think it makes sense to choose a car seat over a fully reclining forward facing stroller. BUT in my last post I was responding to your response to my comment in which you said "Agreed - there are strollers that recline fully enough and there are also 3rd party carrycots/snuzzlers. But, what if you don't like them?"

The people you were talking about here were the people you mentioned who want a Bob or a Maclaren and therefore use a snap n go from birth until their baby can use it. These people are *not* the same people who have limited internet access and very limited funds, don't have the time to do research etc. If you want a Bob and make your stroller decisions based on the desire for a Bob I can basically guarantee that you have both the time and the resources to make informed choices about strollers and to buy a stroller that will keep your child out of a car seat as much as possible.

Those are the people who frustrate me. At least one of your post seemed to say that the company who makes Bobs was at fault for not making their strollers newborn-friendly. This seems to me to be placing the blame in the wrong place. Bob makes jogging strollers. You can't jog with a newborn. Frankly I think I'd rather that they *not* make their strollers newborn-friendly so that people don't think they can jog with their newborns.

ETA: I don't think you and I really disagree. I'm just striving to draw a distinction between people who really don't have the time and resources to make the informed decisions that would get their babies out of car seats for those extra hours everyday and people who do have the time and the resources but choose not to spend them on this.

[arivecchi]

I am glad we are having this discussion. I think it is great that the majority of mamas here are aware of the fact that car seat use outside of the car should be limited. Way to go! :thumbsup:

[PGTB]

I agree with all of those statements, except that I don't think it makes sense to choose a car seat over a fully reclining forward facing stroller. BUT in my last post I was responding to your response to my comment in which you said "Agreed - there are strollers that recline fully enough and there are also 3rd party carrycots/snuzzlers. But, what if you don't like them?"

The people you were talking about here were the people you mentioned who want a Bob or a Maclaren and therefore use a snap n go from birth until their baby can use it. These people are *not* the same people who have limited internet access and very limited funds, don't have the time to do research etc. If you want a Bob and make your stroller decisions based on the desire for a Bob I can basically guarantee that you have both the time and the resources to make informed choices about strollers and to buy a stroller that will keep your child out of a car seat as much as possible.

Those are the people who frustrate me.

I've made a few statements, sorry to be confusing. Not intended :p

Yes, there are those who don't want to put their newborns into the stroller seat, myself among them, no matter how flat it would recline.

Yes, there are those who make a choice to only have one stroller and go for the popular best selling brands (my acquaintances with the Mac and Bob and myriad of others I see daily on the streets with BJCMs). They may not be people who care too much about strollers (I know for those of us who are it's hard to understand :D) and they are not really people with limited means.

There are also those whose means are severely limited and those who live off of hand outs. Those who don't have time to research.

Ok, so I was coming up with excuses for parents, because I feel like we are a bit too harsh towards those who aren't "aware". I don't think it's all parent's fault solely.

Let me just make it simple. Car seat manufacturers don't print with big letters on their car seats "For limited use only". In fact they try hard to make infant buckets as appealing as possible for outdoor strolling (fancy canopies and colorful fabrics that match the strollers). We see people strolling their infants in car seats all the time everywhere. Pediatricians are uninformed and some even recommend their use as an infant bed. I think one of mine actually did that when DS had reflux issue - I ignored him. Sales people just want to make a sale and if someone is not going to buy an overpriced bassinet for their bestselling BJCM, they very well will buy a car seat adapter.

So... to keep the long story short. Unless you stumble on one of these sites and actually care to read the stroller forum or a car seat forum you will never know.

Many of the responses here actually indicate that, people overused carseats with their first DC and now after being aware will do something to limit their use with younger babies.

Unless we are told something is dangerous and deadly and the Peds endorse it and start pushing it in their offices (like the back to sleep campaign) the awareness is slow to spread.


At least one of your post seemed to say that the company who makes Bobs was at fault for not making their strollers newborn-friendly. This seems to me to be placing the blame in the wrong place. Bob makes jogging strollers. You can't jog with a newborn. Frankly I think I'd rather that they *not* make their strollers newborn-friendly so that people don't think they can jog with their newborns.

I disagree. Bob is not purely a jogging stroller, they make several types. Yes, some are purely for jogging and have a fixed wheel and their specifications probably state that they are not to be used for young babies. But the Revolution is not. It is considered young baby friendly and has a recline and in most cases it is used like a regular AT stroller. I see them on the streets and in stores in large amounts especially in SF Bay area (not as much in NYC). They are clearly not seen as jogging strollers only.

[PGTB]

I am glad we are having this discussion. I think it is great that the majority of mamas here are aware of the fact that car seat use outside of the car should be limited. Way to go! :thumbsup:

another thing that's awesome is that the BBB book is going to have updated info on it as a result of such discussions and that these threads also influence the baby goods merchants that tend to lurk on these websites, so that they could recommend better options to their customers.

Honestly, I had no idea that car seat overuse was unhealthy when I started looking for a stroller. I had made up my mind to have a bassinet long time ago before I even knew. I simply didn't like the carseats used as bassinets. But if I only had an option of putting a baby into a car seat or a reclined forward facing stroller seat, I honestly would have chosen a car seat. I stumbled on this info simply by chance and then read further info on other websites, that helped me make up my mind when looking for a travel stroller, which I needed to be able to carry a car seat.

[edurnemk]

So... to keep the long story short. Unless you stumble on one of these sites and actually care to read the stroller forum or a car seat forum you will never know.


:yeahthat: ITA If the Peds told you from the start not to keep baby in the car seat for long periods, more people would know and heed this advice. I had no idea about this until I read it here. I didn't use the car sear much with DS, but not because I knew of this, but because he HATED it. Otherwise I would've followed my friends' advice, who seem to think it's actually better than the fully-reclined stroller seat for the first months. I have friends with Cameleons who kept their kids in the car seat for hours even if they were walking somewhere (instead of using the bassinet or stroller seat).

Also, salespeople at baby stores should be better informed about guidelines and safety, so they can give out better advise.

As a new parent if you heard this from the Ped and the salesman at the baby store you might take it more seriously. I once told a pregnant friend who was looking at SNG's that it was better to get a stroller that took the car seat, since then she'd have the choice because it's better not to leave baby in the car seat too long, well 2 other friends who were there launched an immediate attack on me, saying that was crazy, paranoid and unreasonable, probably because they had never heard it from an authoritative source (i.e. their Ped)

[Bootsie]

I think the studies addressing the use of the car seat outside of the car all involve using (usually, sleeping in ) the car seat for extended periods of time (i.e., 60 minutes or more). So talking about the issue in terms of not keeping an infant in a car seat for extended periods or limiting the period of use is helpful.

Snap n Gos themselves are not bad, assuming the use of the car seat is not abused. I used one for my twins for quick errands and strolls around the block. They have never been in the Snap n Go for more than 30 minutes
(most often, less than that). Really, when they were little and at the Snap n Go stage, we rarely took them anywhere for extended periods of time - not even in the car. For the first two months, my pediatrician recommended laying low because they hadn't been vaccinated yet and this paired with how often babies eat at this age and nap (which was in a crib), all of their little excursions outside were pretty short.

In terms of pediatrician involvement, our pediatrician stressed at our first visit that babies should sleep and nap in cribs and not in strollers, car seats or swings and this message was reinforced on future visits. I believe we might also have discussed plagiocephaly, the risk of which can, of course, be contributed to, by any flat reclining position (including time spent in flat reclining strollers or bassinets or even the crib) or positions that put pressure on the back of the head. Our pediatrician stressed the benefits of tummy time. etc.

[Annyeb]

I've never had a dedicated snap'n'go. Had a Combi that took an infant car seat for my first and it was really useful for traveling, but then we stopped using the infant car seat at 4 months and sold the stroller. Never had one for my second as our double didn't take a car seat. For #3, I bought a P3 and our carseat fit inside it quite nicely. Also used that for #4. Mostly just for quick trips when baby was sleeping. Never for neighborhood walks (don't get that at all) and rarely longer trips (unless baby was tiny and sleeping in the seat at the destination).

[AnnieW625]

I disagree. Bob is not purely a jogging stroller, they make several types. Yes, some are purely for jogging and have a fixed wheel and their specifications probably state that they are not to be used for young babies. But the Revolution is not. It is considered young baby friendly and has a recline and in most cases it is used like a regular AT stroller. I see them on the streets and in stores in large amounts especially in SF Bay area (not as much in NYC). They are clearly not seen as jogging strollers only.

I agree with this 100%. When we were researching and later bought our Bob at REI we got two completely different answers as to when we could use our Bob with our newborn. The first guy told us a few weeks and about 10lbs, and then when we went back and bought it after DD2 was born, and we had her with us the young SA (in her early to mid 20s) told us that we couldn't use the stroller until they were 8 months old. She encouraged us to buy the car seat adaptor. We didn't as I didn't think we needed it. We had an infant insert from our single jogger that we used until just recently. When I sell the stroller I will include that insert because it made the Bob a very usable stroller for a baby who was just a month old.

What Bob really needs to introduce is an infant sling like this one from Chariot (http://chariotcarriers.com/english/html/accessories.php?accID=2)

[KLD313]

I had an argument about this with my BF this morning when I told him to take the snap n go out of the car and put the Bee in. We were going to Ikea so figured we'd be awhile and he was protesting saying how easy is to just take the car seat out and snap it on the frame as opposed to taking the baby out and putting her in the stroller. She's 5 mos and 17lbs, there's nothing easy about lifting the car seat IMO. Needless to say we took the bee and we were the only ones in Ikea that didn't have a baby in a car seat!

[roseyloxs]

I had an argument about this with my BF this morning when I told him to take the snap n go out of the car and put the Bee in. We were going to Ikea so figured we'd be awhile and he was protesting saying how easy is to just take the car seat out and snap it on the frame as opposed to taking the baby out and putting her in the stroller. She's 5 mos and 17lbs, there's nothing easy about lifting the car seat IMO. Needless to say we took the bee and we were the only ones in Ikea that didn't have a baby in a car seat!

:jammin: Nice job!

I successfully convinced a preggo friend that a snap n go should not be her sole stroller for the first few months. She read the recommendation in the BBB book and was all about it. I am steering her towards the FY indigo instead so she will have the option of car seat or stroller seat for her outings. Then can move to an umbrella or AT once the baby is older.

[KLD313]

I got the snap n go based on the recommendation from the book too and I really regret it. I think it was a total waste of money and while I didn't overuse it, I could've got away with not using it at all. Now that I think about it, it's not like my lifestyle was totally going to change so why did I need to see how I used the stroller first?

[Beth24]

What I regret is that I thought I needed a car stroller that would take my key fit so my choice was very limited to the Si and the Flite. I didn't want a snap n go. I also got a car seat adaptor for my Vista. I ended up never using the car seat adapter and thankfully i purchased it from Amazon so I was able to return it. I think i used the car seat/Si option 3 times! I just ended up carrying my baby in the Moby wrap or Ergo or using the stroller fully reclined. I am happy enough with the Si, it is very fully featured for a car stroller, but I just wish i hadn't made my decision based on a feature i ended up not using.

[Multimama]

What I regret is that I thought I needed a car stroller that would take my key fit so my choice was very limited to the Si and the Flite.

Oooh, I made this mistake too. It's all a bit hazy, but I think I picked my car seat first and then picked a stroller that would accept it. That is so the wrong way of doing things!

[veronica]

I'm still really intrigued by this thread. We've never had a SNG but are really looking into it now. With a 5.5 YO, a 4 YO and newborn twins, I'm perplexed as to how I will do quick errands.

I don't really have the option of carrying two newborns in a carrier/wrap, can't handle two carseats in each hand and the older kids and don't always think it will be easy to transfer two infants into our bjcc......DH is inisisting on a SNG just for the ease in the beginning. I tend to agree. We will have help for the first few months so hopefully our errands will be short. I also really want the infants to face me but can't afford a double bassinet/carrycot option....

[roseyloxs]

I'm still really intrigued by this thread. We've never had a SNG but are really looking into it now. With a 5.5 YO, a 4 YO and newborn twins, I'm perplexed as to how I will do quick errands.

I don't really have the option of carrying two newborns in a carrier/wrap, can't handle two carseats in each hand and the older kids and don't always think it will be easy to transfer two infants into our bjcc......DH is inisisting on a SNG just for the ease in the beginning. I tend to agree. We will have help for the first few months so hopefully our errands will be short. I also really want the infants to face me but can't afford a double bassinet/carrycot option....

Get a snap n go. Don't feel guilty. You know the dangers of abusing car seats so you can make informed decisions from there. If its a long outing move the twins to the stroller. If its a short errand use the snap n go.

Although if it were me and I think I have told you this before but I would sell the BJCC and take this opportunity to buy a new double, one that can take two car seats so you have every option available to you. A plus to a side by side double that takes two car seats is that both newborns are close to you and the steering is better.

[veronica]

Get a snap n go. Don't feel guilty. You know the dangers of abusing car seats so you can make informed decisions from there. If its a long outing move the twins to the stroller. If its a short errand use the snap n go.

Although if it were me and I think I have told you this before but I would sell the BJCC and take this opportunity to buy a new double, one that can take two car seats so you have every option available to you. A plus to a side by side double that takes two car seats is that both newborns are close to you and the steering is better.

I wish you could see my local CL....it is truly sad. I live in a shore town and their aren't too many people in the winter. The demographics don't produce too many people that would even look for this stroller within a couple of hours radius. Plus, the price I'd get, wouldn't offset the cost of a new double enough for us to be able to afford one :(

I think I'm gonna try the SNG. It's $75 right now on amazon with a 365 day return option.....

[Multimama]

I'm still really intrigued by this thread. We've never had a SNG but are really looking into it now. With a 5.5 YO, a 4 YO and newborn twins, I'm perplexed as to how I will do quick errands.

I don't really have the option of carrying two newborns in a carrier/wrap, can't handle two carseats in each hand and the older kids and don't always think it will be easy to transfer two infants into our bjcc......DH is inisisting on a SNG just for the ease in the beginning. I tend to agree. We will have help for the first few months so hopefully our errands will be short. I also really want the infants to face me but can't afford a double bassinet/carrycot option....

Do you have a single stroller that can be used for a newborn? I would probably wear one baby and put the other in the stroller. But this may be because I'm afraid of double strollers. They just look so unmanageable, especially double snap n gos, that I feel like a good single and a baby carrier would be the way to go. But I agree with Roseyloxs, do what you feel you need to in order to stay sane.

[roseyloxs]

I wish you could see my local CL....it is truly sad. I live in a shore town and their aren't too many people in the winter. The demographics don't produce too many people that would even look for this stroller within a couple of hours radius. Plus, the price I'd get, wouldn't offset the cost of a new double enough for us to be able to afford one :(

I think I'm gonna try the SNG. It's $75 right now on amazon with a 365 day return option.....

Bummer. Sounds like the SNG is the best option for you right now. If you ever travel to a relative's place that is in a better CL area I would bring the stroller with you. That's what I plan on doing with my bee. I know it will sell better in Chicago so I am bringing it back with me on our next visit to the grandparents.