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ilfaith
02-19-2011, 08:53 AM
The basic issue is that DH wants to pull DS1 out of the private school where he is now and switch him to public school next year. I want him to remain where he is.

A bit of background...DS1 has always been a very bright boy...reading before he turned four, with a tremendous thirst for knowledge. On the other hand he has always had behavior issues at school, and to a lesser extent, at home. Some of these issues include problems paying attention, following directions and managing his frustration. He's a summer birthday, and has always been the youngest boy in his class, so for a while we attributed some of his issues to immaturity, but by kindergarten (last year), his attention hadn't improved and tantrums/meltdowns were still occurring on a pretty regular basis. I began getting pretty regular calls home from the school about his (mis)behavior. It was suggested that we look outside for a behavior specialist.

I should add at this point that his school has a reputation for having very high expectations of its students. It is a private Jewish day school with excellent academic standards and a very involved group of parents. They have a long day, which begins at 8:15 and doesn't end until 3:45. There is a dual curriculum and part of the day is Hebrew immersion.

I will also say that nearly every BOY in DS1's class seems to have received similar communication from the school (two boys in the class actually were removed from the school over the course of the year). A tidbit of information I discovered after we took our son for a psychological evaluation. The doctor told us our son had an IQ which put him in the "gifted" category and his behavior was not out of line with what one could expect from a then 5.75-year-old. She said he did seem to have some issues with attention, but that it was a bit early to diagnose him with ADD/ADHD and recommended another evaluation in a year or so. She did agree that he would probably benefit from some behavior therapy, but said that was true for nearly every boy his age.

Now DS1 is in first grade, and the behavior in school really has not improved. We recently did begin to see a behavior therapist who has given him some tools to cope with his frustration management. She said she knew about the reputation of the school, and had even looked into it for her own children years ago. She claimed that many private schools (not that she was going to name names) "expect the children to be perfect little robots" and that boys had a particularly tough time.

My husband has never been as involved with the boys' education as I would like (beyond paying the checks to the school) He travels frequently on business and isn't around much for the daily homework, or the various school functions (open houses, conferences, plays, fundraisers, etc). But last week when I had scheduled a meeting with DS1's teacher, the head of school and a therapist who works with the school, I begged DS to join us. He did, but after the meeting, where the teacher, head of school and school therapist discussed DS1's behavior and how we all need to work together to improve it, DH decided that the school "didn't know how to handle our son" and wants to pull him out and send him to public school next year.

I want to say that the public schools in our city (really the entire state) do not have the greatest reputation. Although our local school is one of the better-rated ones, the class sizes are large (twice the size of our current class) and there is always the issue of "teaching to the test" something that teacher friends of mine complain about bitterly.

Our current school is affiliated with our synagogue and I have been very active with the both the day school and pre-school (room mom, parent associations, chairing various committees) as well as with the congregation (sisterhood board). Really I would have to say my entire social life is pretty much wrapped up in the school. I didn't have many friends until my kids began school here. I never felt I really fit in with my neighbors (the one New York Jew among a bunch of southern Christians). I feel like the school has become something of a second home for me.

My husband, thinks I am being selfish in wanting to keep DS1 at the school for my own needs, but I also do think he is getting a wonderful education. I love that he is learning Hebrew (even though I can barely read it and nether DH nor I speak the language) and the school does send their graduates to the best high schools, nearly all of them getting into the advanced placement or IB programs. They have a fabulous art program and an inspiring music teacher (who happens to be a good friend of mine...we were friends before she started teaching at the school). Even though it's a small school they have an amazing library...Phys. Ed. is less impressive (not to play into stereotypes, but it is a Jewish school after all).

Now if we take DS1 out of the private school and send him to public school we would also move DS2 (who is currently in the preschool at our temple and will be entering kindergarten next year) so both boys would be leaving all their friends behind to start at a new school. I then would have to decide whether to send DS3 (who will begin preschool next year) to the school at our temple, or to another, more convenient, preschool (which also has an excellent program...but doesn't feel as much like "family")

I've gone on far too long in this message and I am not sure if I have gotten my point across. I am sure I will come back later to edit for the sake of clarity. I haven't yet been able to talk to any of my friends about this, but it's keeping me up nights. I guess what it boils down to is that I am afraid my boys will not get as good an education at the public school and that our family might not fit in as well.

And that brings me to one last issue...the fact that greater than my concern about leaving my friends at the current school behind, is my concern about DS1 making friends. His current class, his entire grade, has only 14 kids. There are days he comes home and says "nobody likes me..I have no friends". I am certain that his behavior in school, his crying and meltdowns, are putting off the other children in his class. (There are, however days that he does tell me he does have friends and played with so-and-so...it seems at this age kids go from being BFFs to bitter enemies at the drop of a hat.) The fact is, if he stays in this school, these same 14 kids will be each others classmates for the next seven years. In the public school he will be in a class of 25+ students, with a half dozen or so classes per grade. Obviously a much larger pool of kids with whom to develop friendships. Of course these kids will come from a variety of backgrounds, rather than being a group of upper-middle class Jewish kids like him...which I suppose is a good thing. DH and I are both products of public schools ourselves. I just want to make the right decision for our family...and I'm afraid my somewhat geeky, book-loving, eyeglass-wearing, super-sensitive little boy is going to have a hard time.

WatchingThemGrow
02-19-2011, 09:12 AM
I can see how it would be hard to want to give up the community you are part of. Are there any other moms who are part of the temple but who do not send their DC to the Jewish school?

We have a similar situation going on in our church where a huge portion of families attend the Christian school around the corner, and I wonder how those who chose other options feel like they "fit in." I know in the circle of moms whose DC are the ages of mine, there is a huge trend to try the public school options (magnets, charters, montessori, etc.) before finding a way to afford private. (I'm not in that cluster, though, because we're in a different school district with a better rep.)

Maybe a pro/con list would be a good starter for you and DH to talk about how it would affect the family and look in the bigger picture? I think including the idea that DH travels a lot (you said that, right?) and you like the cultural support may be something to include. Is it possible to still be a part of something when you aren't part of the school?

DS-wise, I can say that my private school teacher friends were pretty secure in saying that anything out of the ordinary was not well-addressed at their schools. They were always amazed at the level of detail, support, assistance my public school students were able to get when needed. Personally, I'd look into it... Tough choice for you though..

MamaMolly
02-19-2011, 09:27 AM
I don't know if you are going to like my take on this, but I think your DH may be right. As you have said, he's less involved in the situation and maybe in this case he sees it more clearly and less emotionally? If the school isn't a good match for your DS, it doesn't matter how terrific the curriculum is. Like shoes: when it is a bad fit, it's a bad fit. Don't buy it just because it is a designer brand and 75% off ;).

I agree with the PP who suggested it would be a benefit to make a list of pros and cons, and look at them side by side to make the decision more clear.

Do you feel that your son being academically challenged in his current school?

pinkmomagain
02-19-2011, 09:48 AM
Just some thoughts after reading your post:

- Maybe the small class size is working against him...his behavior might be more under the microscope. With a larger public school class, there will be more kids on the continuum behaviorially, academically...and the teachers might have some better classroom management strategies. Also, obviously, he has more social options in the larger public school.

- Some of the things you love about the current school -- art, music, Hebrew -- can be supplemented outside of school. Especially with the money you would save going to public school.

- If your dc could qualify/benefit from services or accommodations, the public school is better equipped to provide that.

- Is there a way to stay connected to the current private school community through staying involved with the temple. It might be less, but, still could be there through sisterhood, hebrew school, etc.

eta: Also, your son's smarts might get him more positive attention at the public school, adding to his self-esteem/confidence.

Canna
02-19-2011, 10:08 AM
Can you talk to some of the families at the public school to get a sense of what their experiences have been?

Honestly, it sounds like you're not having a great experience with this private school. It sounds like they have unreasonable expectations for their students - behavior that is developmentally typical for their age is being described as problematic, even pathological and requiring intervention! I think that sends a really negative message to kids and I'd be concerned about that.

I think the larger class size and having a pool of more than 16 identical classmates to interact with may be very liberating to your son. If he doesn't hit it off with one potential friend...well, there's a lot more out there. And I think he may be a lot more appreciated by his teachers and peers in a different environment. And he may be relieved to see kids with a wider range of experiences, abilities, behaviors, and backgrounds interacting with each other, with teachers, etc and navigating life successfully (for the most part)!

ETA: If he's stressed at school, that may be contributing to his behavior concerns, etc. I have a 6 y.o. DD who is a more spirited/sensitive child and when she is in a situation where she feels uncomfortable, stressed, or particularly EVALUATED (even situations where the evaluation isn't negative, like someone complimenting her outfit, can make her uncomfortable) her behavior really declines - she's more likely to be rude, to cry, to be defiant, etc. When she's more relaxed we generally don't see these kinds of behavior.

jenfromnj
02-19-2011, 10:24 AM
Haven't BTDT yet, but it seems as though your DH is concerned that your current school isn't a good "fit" for DS. Could another alternative be a different private school? Not sure whether that's something you would consider, but since you don't seem totally comfortable with some of the aspects of your public school options, I thought I'd throw it out there.

Also, perhaps you've already done this, but maybe it would be worthwhile to make yourself a bit more familiar/comfortable with the public school your DCs would attend, just to get a real idea of what it's all about? Go for a visit if possible, meet with someone who could tell you more about the school, its policies/procedures, etc. Maybe they have a gifted program that would be able to accommodate your DS, for example, or perhaps a larger environment with more peers, and possibly more options to meet and maximize his strengths, would be a good thing for him?

Katigre
02-19-2011, 10:26 AM
The expectations of the school sound great 'on paper' but I can see how it would be disastrous for certain types of kids. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do. From my perspective, your DS sounds like someone who would thrive in a homeschooling environment so that he can get one-on-one attention which would give more opportunities for coaching his behavior as well as making sure he's progressing at his intellectual level. I don't know that I would switch to public school without knowing he'd find a 'fit' there.

crl
02-19-2011, 10:31 AM
It sounds to me like your current private school is not a good fit for your oldest son. Many private schools are not well equipped to deal with exceptional kids, including gifted kids. I really think your husband is on the right track with wanting to make a change.

Also, just because the school is not a good fit for your oldest, does not mean that it won't be for your other children. DH has a co-worker with three kids who go to three different schools (one private for special needs kids, one more typical private and one public) because that is what works best for each kid. I am sure that is a logistical challenge, but something you could consider.

Catherine

Dr C
02-19-2011, 10:34 AM
I have to say that after reading your post, it doesn't sound like the current school is a good fit for your DS. But I have a question... do you have any friends with older children (esp active boys) in your current school who went through the same issues as younger kids? How did their boys turn out a few years down the road?

As an alternative to regular public school (which may well be your best option), what other options are available in your area? Are there magnet/charter schools within the public system that might be a good match? What about other private schools? I'm sort of thinking that another small school might be a good place to find a new community of friends for your whole family. But who knows, you might find that in public school too. You are certainly the kind of person who likes to be involved!

Good luck--what a difficult decision to make!!

wimama
02-19-2011, 11:46 AM
My DS goes to a Catholic school. They do expect good behavior there at his school, but your school seems unduly harsh and intolerant toward normal boy behavior. Our school does expect good behavior, but is pretty tolerant of behavior in the lower grades.

How is his behavior at home? Does he seem distracted or have frequent meltdowns at home? Or is this just happening in his school environment?

jamesmom
02-20-2011, 10:15 AM
I just wanted to say that you should look at all the educational options available to your DS in addition to public school - charter/magnet schools, Montessori, etc to see what would best work for your DS. Sounds like his current school is not a good fit for your DS. FWIW, public school is more accepting and supportive of a wide range of kids while many private schools tend to be more strict about the types of behaviors they deem acceptable and what they want to see in the classroom.

My son was denied admission to kindergarten at a parochial school two years ago because he has ADHD. I also recently got feedback from DD's preschool teacher that my DD probably won't be accepted for K at the same school because she is nonverbal in the classroom. I'm not sure what they are looking for but my DCs don't seem to meet their criteria. But I am more than happy to send them to public school, where my DS is valued and thriving (so far).

AnnieW625
02-20-2011, 12:39 PM
Before making the final decision to move your child I would talk to your public school and get a feel for it.

I personally think that the school day schedule is too long for any child. I don't recall being in school from 8:15 until 3:45 even in high school unless I opted to do a zero period class (and therefore was in class from 7 am to 3 pm). That is just too much time for any child IMHO.

Does your synagogue offer a Jewish school or do most of the kids go to the school?

I am not Jewish so I can't really help out anymore, but good luck, and if it was my child I think I would do all I could to move my child to the right school. If your friends at the synagogue are your true friends then they will understand your reasons for moving your son and will continue to be there for you.

JTsMom
02-20-2011, 06:05 PM
I will also say that nearly every BOY in DS1's class seems to have received similar communication from the school (two boys in the class actually were removed from the school over the course of the year).

This would be a major red flag for me. If every boy is having these issues, the boys are not the problem- the expectations are. I think it's really important for a school to expect developmentally appropriate behavior. Otherwise, they end up setting everyone- students, parents and teachers- up for failure, frustration, and stress.

bubbaray
02-20-2011, 06:20 PM
If all the boys are getting this kind of communication, perhaps the administration would prefer to open an all-girls school? Because if all the boys are getting those notes home, that is a huge red flag.

sste
02-20-2011, 07:09 PM
Are you positive you are going to HAVE the option to keep him at the private school? It sounds to me like there is at least a serious possibility they are trying to force him out, discourage all of you and that the school got right on it in kindy. This is an issue I have with many private schools - - in some of them, they weed both in admissions and then they force out the kids with learning or behavior issues and THEN they brag about their high school/college placements. Well, if the public school could cherry pick like that it would have similar placements.

Sorry you are going through this.

ShanaMama
02-20-2011, 10:02 PM
I haven't read through all the replies but just wanted to say that I understand your dilemma. DD1 is in a private Jewish school & I really wouldn't consider public school because I want her to have that particular education.
That said, from your description it seems that this school doesn't have a great understanding of age appropriate behaviors. Or is it the competitive aspect, that in order to attain that academic reputation they need to put the little kids into cookie cutters? Despite you being very involved (where they could collaborate with you to improve his behavior), it seems that the school is bent on labeling him. Did I totally make that up? I'm not clear on how much you believe your DS has an issue vs how much the school is creating an issue.
I encourage you to talk to your friends & see if their experiences match yours. Is there anything you can do from within, like asking your teacher friends for ideas? Is there anyone in the administration that's receptive and can be an ally, like an assistant principal or something?
I totally hear your concerns about pulling both your sons out and I think you need to do what is right for your family- which includes you! Having that sense of community is very important. It sounds like your Jewish identity is important to you, seeing how involved you are in Temple & school. Have you thought about how that would be affected by having your DS in public school? Talk about that one Jewish NYer among the Christian majority... (no offense anyone...).
It doesn't sound like there's an easy answer but I totally understand why you're losing sleep over this.

ShanaMama
02-20-2011, 10:18 PM
I personally think that the school day schedule is too long for any child. I don't recall being in school from 8:15 until 3:45 even in high school unless I opted to do a zero period class (and therefore was in class from 7 am to 3 pm). That is just too much time for any child IMHO.


I just wanted to address this. My 5 yo is in a Jewish private school and her day is 9-3:15. Next year, in first grade it's 9-4. I, too, think it's a very long day for the age but it's typical around here. There is just no other way to fit in the Jewish curricullum (sp?) in addition to the standard one. They are not just learning the Hebrew language- there is Jewish history & holiday related learning as well as Bible (Torah) class. There are a lot of excellent programs incorporated into the agenda that encourage good behavior and morals ( I am not saying that clearly, hope you get the idea). For example they are currently doing a whole unit on honoring your parents. They have source material & do role play & puppet shows about what's the appropriate response in various situations. I am not talking Amy Chua style! I really love that she's getting this as part of her schooling.

Not sure how similar our school is to the OP but I just wanted to clarify that the Jewish schools I have experience with are really teaching a double curriculum. And of course the long day is more difficult for a child who has a hard time sitting & listening. (ETA: Sadly, the poor PE program does seem to be a true stereotype.)

OP- how are the teaching methods in DS' class? I have been extremely impressed with what I've seen from DD about teaching the material to different learning styles & keeping the teaching engaging for the kids, always changing from centers to tables to playroom.... they certainly don't expect the kids to sit in their seats and listen for all those hours. DD also has a very large class but they do break up into groups for reading at this age & maybe for math as they get older. I don't know how much of a gifted program our school has, but I would like to find out about enrichment for DD. My point is do they have mechanisms in place to challenge your son & keep him engaged?

HIU8
02-20-2011, 11:13 PM
OP, I assume your DS would go to Hebrew School if you moved him to public school. What is the hebrew school population like at your shul? Do you think your DS would be able to make friends there?

Also, I am somewhat familiar with your dilemna. My brother, sister and I were pulled out of a Jewish school by our parents due to similiar issues. We went to public and to hebrew school. Both my sister and brother ended up at other non-parochial privates, and I stayed in public school.

I think you have to decide which school your DS will be the most successful in social and academically. You will have to go and observe at your local public to start. also, publics are more often more capable of handling attention issues etc... than a private. The issue may be that the school cannot handle gifted children, children with special needs etc...

marchmommy
02-20-2011, 11:25 PM
I feel for you b/c I'm considering similar issues. My DS is in 2nd grade in public school, and I keep debating whether I should send him to a Jewish day school, so I face the opposite decision, but similar issues. My DS is gifted (I had to test him privately b/c the public school does not) but I am really disappointed with how the public school does not do much to differentiate for him. It's an uphill battle. Due to No Child Left Behind there is a lot of funding for the low end but not the high end. So definitely look into what your public school offers. The town just north of us offers a great gifted program but I didn't know this when I moved here (and didn't know how my kids would be)! Maybe another private school is an option. What state are you in out of curiousity?