Is there any hope with public school testing idenifying a learning disability?

[JustMe]

Update: Today I received the paperwork in the mail that I need to sign. Among the things stated as reason for eval are teacher and parent are concerned that the child may have a specific learning disability. I know it may be strange, but I was very happy to see that on there.

To make a long story as short as I can, dd just turned 8. She mixes up the sequence of letters (like when reading from an eye chart if it says C F E L D she would say F C E D L). She also does some written reversals of the letter d and b, which she did not do when she was younger. Overall, she has not progressed in reading like I would expect her too. Her teacher had remained relatively unconcerned, but again to make a long story short, there are a lot of struggling students in her school and I feel it is just almost the norm there. At parent-teacher conferences, I pushed my concerns and finally got a call from the school psych today. At first she went on and on about how it is all developmentally normal, but then she admitted it could be a learning disability and said she would do some testing if I wanted her to. I said yes. She wont be starting the testing until at least April. I have heard that school districts dont test for specific learning disabilities? Just wanted to know what others thing of this situation. Thanks!

[ha98ed14]

No BTDT, but IIWY I would take her to a child psychologist for testing. Ask your ped for a referral. I think you will get A LOT farther coming to the school with a dx in hand and asking for help in the form of specific accommodations than waiting on them to get around to testing DD and then deciding what she needs. I say this remembering the less that stellar experience you have had with DD's school in the past.

[JustMe]

Thanks, to confuse things even more, but I did get her privately tested during the summer. It was an educational psych. who used to work for a very good agency. I actually called that agency, and for various reasons we mutually agreed it didnt make sense for me to go through that agency and they recommended him. He said he did not think she had a learning disability, but didnt really give me a reason why she was doing what she was doing. I am just wondering if people will start to take this more seriously now that she is a little older/had more schooling and continues to do it.

Yes, you remember well, I did have a way less than stellar experience with her school in K and 1st grade. However, the school psych who would do the testing isnt there that much and isnt integrated into the rest of the school culture as much..I think she is only there when she needs to get testing done...I have never actually seen her and have spent quite a bit of time at the school. (and btw, happily dd has an awesome teacher this year. Although she was not initially concerned, I feel she is listening to what I have to say. We also have a new principal and that has helped a lot.)

[vludmilla]

I am a school psych but in NY, so probably not your state so there may be some differences but there are federal regulations that apply to all states.

Any competent school psych can and does test for specific learning disabilities. Anyone saying anything to the contrary would be wrong. The special education regs are written in such a way that they do not align perfectly with DSM-IV TR diagnosis codes but this does not mean that school psychs don't or can't identify LD, quite the opposite, they must identify a LD or another eligible impairment in functioning in order for special education eligibility.

I would also add that reversals alone are not a great indicator of a reading disability (or dyslexia). I do realize, however, that there may well be other reasons that you believe she could have a learning disability but if you at all believe that the quality of her instruction is poor, I'd be very hesitant to label your daughter with an LD unless there was very clear evidence of a disability beyond slower than expected progress. I would also want to know what additional services could be gained by having an IEP. In many districts there are supplemental reading programs available to all students, not just those with an IEP. Unfortunately, most districts choose one program to have and that one program doesn't meet all students needs usually.

[JustMe]

I I would also add that reversals alone are not a great indicator of a reading disability (or dyslexia). .

Thanks. Even more than the letter reversals I am more concerned about her reading individual letters with lots of space between them out of sequence. What is your take on this (or anyone else who may know)? I have no concerns about the quality of her instruction. I know there is mention of school issues here, but that has never been about the quality of instructions.

She actually did just qualify for the supplementary afterschool reading program. I am very interested/curious to see if this benefits her, as I do feel there is more going on than just needing more practice.

[vludmilla]

I think you will get A LOT farther coming to the school with a dx in hand and asking for help in the form of specific accommodations than waiting on them to get around to testing DD and then deciding what she needs.

Separate from the OP's previous experiences with the school, I find this a curious thing to say. There are federal and state regulations regarding how long a district has to complete an evaluation (the entire process from request to creating an IEP is 60 calendar days) and I think in most cases, unless you pay very top dollar for your private evaluation, you can receive one from the school district in nearly the same amount of time as a private evaluation. I think, however, given another recent post about school psychs, that you may have a poor opinion of the profession.

[ha98ed14]

Separate from the OP's previous experiences with the school, I find this a curious thing to say. There are federal and state regulations regarding how long a district has to complete an evaluation (the entire process from request to creating an IEP is 60 calendar days) and I think in most cases, unless you pay very top dollar for your private evaluation, you can receive one from the school district in nearly the same amount of time as a private evaluation. I think, however, given another recent post about school psychs, that you may have a poor opinion of the profession.

I'm sorry, no, I think the people that go into school psychology are awesome people and know their stuff really well. The opinion I expressed here is based on what I know from hearing how thinly spread the school psychs at DH's school are. At least in our district, they cover 5-6 schools of 600+ students each. They barely have time to catch their breath because there is *such* a need for their services, but people end up waiting for their DC to be tested because there are just not enough school psychs to do it. And then, on top of all of that (!!!) the district ties their hands! So even if the school psychs professional opinion is that a child has X or Y and needs extra services, they are pressured NOT to dx in such a way that the district will have to pay for more services. So giving a student more time to take a test is fine; getting them an aide is not. DH is good friends with the school psych who covered his school so he heard from him how hard it was. So those are where my opinions come from. Maybe too little first hand knowledge to really have an intelligent one, but there it is.

As for the previous post, I think you are talking about the one when koztchka was asking for help with her DS's social issues. I think the point I was trying to make was that a school psych didn't necessarily have the resources, time being the most pressing one, to do the intensive therapy that it sounded like her DS would need to deal with his issues. I do remember saying that I thought she *should* follow the recommendation of the school psychologist to get external behavior therapy because I do think a school psychologist would be able to quickly identify a child with those needs and would have a realistic picture of what was possible to accomplish in the pull out type of groups during the school day v. intensive individual therapy, which if I remember correctly, were the different therapies being discussed for her DS.

Please don't think I think poorly of the profession. I have as much respect for them as I do for classroom teachers. They are on the front lines everyday trying to help kids, often with a lack of resources with which to do so. I also have great respect for you, who has helped me personally deal with my own psych issues on several occasions. I'm really sorry for giving you the impression that I lacked respect for the profession. Really. Sorry. :(

[thomma]

Sounds like a tracking issue...have you had her eyes checked?

FWIW my dd receives OT services for sensory issues and one of the things they are working on this year is tracking print. She tends to read a few words then skip to the next line. Dd can read but the difficulty with tracking gets in the way of fluency and comprehension.

Can your dd point to the letters and say them correctly?

Kim
ds&dd-7 3/4 :)

[SnuggleBuggles]

Pretty much all the school psychologist did for ds1 was observe him, make notes, share notes and then suggest going to an outside source for a dx. It was helpful to have her observations but she was unable/ unwilling (?) to make a dx. Odds are good you will need to go to an independent source so you might as well set up the appointment(s).

Beth

[egoldber]

I think you will get A LOT farther coming to the school with a dx in hand and asking for help in the form of specific accommodations than waiting on them to get around to testing DD and then deciding what she needs.

This was very much our experience. We simply skipped the school process for diagnosis and went outside. I actually got the distinct impression at older DD's school IEP meeting that they were relieved by this and they were happy to have an outside diagnosis. I think their resources are simply stretched soooooo thin (here school psychs are generall covering 2-3 schools of 500-1000 kids each) that there really is just no time. The people I know who had to wait for the school to do the testing were sometimes waiting months. So I think the wait times quoted to the OP were realistic based on our experience. If you have the means to do outside testing, I would.

And to clarify, I don't think this has anything to do with the quality of the school psychologists. Older DD's therapist is actually a school psychologist in our district who has an evening private practice. But they just don't do therapy as part of their day. Their days are spent testing and leading IEP meetings.

[JustMe]

Sounds like a tracking issue...have you had her eyes checked?

FWIW my dd receives OT services for sensory issues and one of the things they are working on this year is tracking print. She tends to read a few words then skip to the next line. Dd can read but the difficulty with tracking gets in the way of fluency and comprehension.

Can your dd point to the letters and say them correctly?

Kim
ds&dd-7 3/4 :)

Yes, I think it is a tracking issue. Her eye dr (I never know how to spell optomotrist) refered her to a vision therapy specialist, who of course said she needs it. That's a whole other post. I am curious about gettting this need fulfilled by OT. Can you point me in the right direction as to how to do this?

[JustMe]

Update in OP.

[crl]

Glad things are moving in the right direction!

Catherine

[squimp]

Yes, I think it is a tracking issue. Her eye dr (I never know how to spell optomotrist) refered her to a vision therapy specialist, who of course said she needs it. That's a whole other post. I am curious about gettting this need fulfilled by OT. Can you point me in the right direction as to how to do this?

Can you get recommendations from the school too? Several kindergarten teachers in our area recommended this one particular optometrist who does vision therapy. She evaluated my DD and kind of shocked us by saying that she didn't need vision therapy. But I do know several other kids whom she has helped tremendously. I actually respect that she was able to tell us we wouldn't benefit, rather than try to take advantage of us. I hope you're able to find a good vision therapy optometrist. I know it can help some kids.

[JustMe]

Can you get recommendations from the school too? Several kindergarten teachers in our area recommended this one particular optometrist who does vision therapy. She evaluated my DD and kind of shocked us by saying that she didn't need vision therapy. But I do know several other kids whom she has helped tremendously. I actually respect that she was able to tell us we wouldn't benefit, rather than try to take advantage of us. I hope you're able to find a good vision therapy optometrist. I know it can help some kids.


Very interesting. I think the vision therapy thing is so controversial here, and I dont know that school staff take it seriously. We have only 2 local vision therapist. The one that I took dd to is very well-known, people have raved about her, etc. Although she doesnt actually do the work herself, people seem happy with the results. The only problem is I didnt feel good about anyone else in her office (optometry technician, billing person I spoke to, etc) I wont bother going into details, but I just did feel like there was a money making thing going on with everyone else there. The other vision therapist I have heard absolutly nothing about, and cant seem to find anyone who does. I really do think dd needs it, as I do see a tracking issue, see her reading letters out of order, etc...I just wonder if there is another way to get those needs met and as I said there were things I was not comfortable with in the vision therapist's office. Not to mention, that there would be a $425 fee just for the next step, which would tell us how many sessions/how much I would end up spending. Honestly, I would be ready to fork over some money for this, but I dont want to spend $425 to find out that the cost would be way out of my league.

[thomma]

Can you point me in the right direction as to how to do this?

I put it in writing that I wanted my daughter to be evaluated by OT through the school system and I listed a few of my concerns. She's on the second year of her IEP.

If your school system is going to evaluate your daughter, you may want to make sure that they are going to do an OT eval too.

[JustMe]

I put it in writing that I wanted my daughter to be evaluated by OT through the school system and I listed a few of my concerns. She's on the second year of her IEP.

If your school system is going to evaluate your daughter, you may want to make sure that they are going to do an OT eval too.


On what basis would I request this? I mean, I get the reasoning, but how do I explain this to them and what do I ask them to look for? She has no problem with gross or fine motor skills, but there does seem to be a tracking issue. Is this something an OT would screen for? I hope you or someone else can answer soon as I am about to return the paperwork to the school!

[thomma]

Just state that you want an OT eval done at the same time as the testing for the SLD. Put it in writing with the other paperwork. Let them contact you for a reason if they need one.

(I believe) gross motor skills would be a PT eval. OT is so much more than fine motor/handwriting. One of the goals on dd's IEP is visual tracking. Let them decide if she qualifies or not...you're just advocating for your dd.

In the meantime I'll look for the list of tracking strategies we got at dd's IEP meeting a few months ago.

[JustMe]

(I believe) gross motor skills would be a PT eval. OT is so much more than fine motor/handwriting. One of the goals on dd's IEP is visual tracking. Let them decide if she qualifies or not...you're just advocating for your dd.

In the meantime I'll look for the list of tracking strategies we got at dd's IEP meeting a few months ago.


Thanks, it would be great to see your tracking strategies! I am just wondering if I ask for an OT eval will they be looking at things like tracking or should I put something about it (and then what?) in there?

thanks,

[thomma]

If you state your concern about her tracking print then it gives them something to focus on for the OT eval.

[AnnieW625]

Also have you had her eyes checked? A lot of kids have to start eye problems at that age (I have a couple of cousins who needed glasses at that age).

FWIW, back to the original question if you can go outside the district and then once you have the diagnosis go back to the district for a IEP like Beth said. I think districts are stretched thin these days. Good luck!

[thomma]

I think districts are stretched thin these days.

Not with the Special Education department around here. Sped positions are the ONLY positions that don't need to worried about being cut nowadays. Our sped dept actually added positions last year even though 2 classrooms/teachers were cut or bumped.

[JustMe]

Also have you had her eyes checked? A lot of kids have to start eye problems at that age (I have a couple of cousins who needed glasses at that age).

FWIW, back to the original question if you can go outside the district and then once you have the diagnosis go back to the district for a IEP like Beth said. I think districts are stretched thin these days. Good luck!

She has glasses, but they are not addressing the issue. Vison therapy was recommended, but I talked about the problems with that in above posts.

Thanks thomma, for the wording about tracking and the OT eval, I put that in and am sending it off. As far as our special ed dept, I think they are strapped and were even before the budget cuts. However, dd's teacher seems to be advocating for this along side with me and I had no luck with the private eval I had done on her (although that did not include OT), so we will see.