Vaccinations: if you do get them

[PMJ]

This post is NOT to create any tension. Just curious... (since I recently saw a show that discussed this).

If you child DOES get vaccinated, do you fear him/her being w/other children who are not Vaccinated?

thanks for your thoughts

[AnnieW625]

No I don't have an issue with it; people have reasons for everything and my reason for vaccinating is that it's what my parents did for me and with DD1 I had no idea you could selectively vax or delay vaxing. We've been lucky no issues with the vaccines, but if I had someone in my family who had issues then I probably would've been way more open or known to selective vaccinate, or delaying vaccinations.

My kids don't get flu vaccines but otherwise they have the rest of their vaccines on schedule.

Most of the people we know IRL though do get all of their vaxs including flu vax so I don't believe that my kids have ever been to a playdate where they have encountered a non vaxed child. We are kind of the odd ones out on the no flu vax thing and people still let their kids play with my kids.

[WolfpackMom]

I fear him being with children who are not vaxed - before he is old enough to have a vax. For example, before DS was old enough for the pertussis vaccine, I would have been nervous about knowingly being with other children who were not vaccinated.

[fortato]

I do worry... now that there's been an out break of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.

I will not judge you for your decisions, as long as you don't judge me for not coming to your house for a playdate.

[JBaxter]

My first 3 children are nearly fully vaccinated and I never feared anything. The older 2 did pick up chicken pox from some place even though they were vaccinated. We did the DTaP vaccine with Jack so far and Im not worried about pertussis.

[mommylamb]

I fear him being with children who are not vaxed - before he is old enough to have a vax. For example, before DS was old enough for the pertussis vaccine, I would be have been nervous about knowingly being with other children who were not vaccinated.
:yeahthat:

[mommylamb]

I do worry... now that there's been a break out of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.

I will not judge you for your decisions, as long as you don't judge me for not coming to your house for a playdate.
Just wanted to say another :yeahthat: to this.

[AnnieW625]

I do worry... now that there's been an out break of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.

I do agree with this 100% though. My mom grew up with kids who had older siblings (born in the 30s and early 40s) who had either had polio and survived or knew someone who had polio and survived so she told me that it was no brainer to have it. Polio is pretty much eradicated world wide now though so it would take a lot of kids not getting vaccinated for it to bring it back, but like the rest of the vaccines they do have a purpose (although I did kind of shake my head at the Rotavirus one esp. since DD1 who is 4 never had that one, but I didn't realize that until after DD2 had gotten the first dose, and it was well might as well do the second dose too and get it over with).

[JBaxter]

I do agree with this 100% though. My mom grew up with kids who had older siblings (born in the 30s and early 40s) who had either had polio and survived or knew someone who had polio and survived so she told me that it was no brainer to have it. I believe both her and my dad got the oral vaccine because they don't have the large scar on their arms like a friend does from when she got it as a child. Polio is pretty much eradicated world wide now though so it would take a lot of kids not getting vaccinated for it to bring it back, but like the rest of the vaccines they do have a purpose.

The SMALL POX vaccine is the one who left the scar on the arm ( or hip) I believe the small pox vaccine was discontinued about 1972 polio vaccines never left scars.

[katydid1971]

I do worry... now that there's been an out break of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.

:yeahthat:

[sewarsh]

I don't worry.

[AnnieW625]

The SMALL POX vaccine is the one who left the scar on the arm ( or hip) I believe the small pox vaccine was discontinued about 1972

Oh thanks, you are right on that one, but then it's strange that neither of my parents had a large scar as our friend does.

[chottumommy]

I will not judge you for your decisions, as long as you don't judge me for not coming to your house for a playdate.

Most of my friends and we do vax (on different schedules) but just out of curiosity, how do find out if said child has been vaxed and for what diseases. Most unvaxed children I know are selectively unvaxed. Do you bring this up or do most parents reveal it at some point in the conversation.

I don't particularly worry about being around unvaxed children, because coming from India, one trip through the market and the local foodstand and you would have developed immunity to pretty much anything or would have caught it.

[WolfpackMom]

Oh thanks, you are right on that one, but then it's strange that neither of my parents had a large scar as our friend does.

I have one, and I was born in 1983....I have no clue which vaccine it was from though. I will have to ask my mom!

[niccig]

No, I don't worry. DS is in K and he is now up to date on all his vaccinations. Our Dr. spreads them out, so without knowing it we were delaying vaccinations. We had DS's 6yo appointment and he could have gotten the chicken pox booster (I think it was that one), but Dr said research shown more effective when he's older..so he said to wait a couple of years, then we'll do it.

I know even with vaccinations, DS could still get the illness, same as if he had the illness. Some people despite illness or vaccine don't build up immunity to it. I can't do anything about that.

Now, if I had a young one who wasn't old enough to get a vaccine and your child has an illness that can be serious in a young baby, then I am not coming over. I do believe though in either getting the illness or getting vaccinated. My father was kept home from school when chickenpox, measles, mumps etc went around at school. He got all of those as an adult when my sisters and I got them. He was hospitalized with mumps and with measles...so I do think getting them as an adult is more dangerous. I remember mum putting the 3 of us in the bathtub with friend's kids who had chickenpox as it was a good time for the 3 of us and then Dad to get sick...so cursed my grandmother for giving her FOUR sick kids.

Anyways, thats how I feel about it. I don't worry about DS being with kids who aren't vaccinated - and I wouldn't even know who was or wasn't vaccinated. And if I was afraid, there is nothing I could do about it other then my child never associating with that child, as you never know when another child is contagious until AFTER the playdate/birthday party/Halloween Trick or Treating when DS had H1N1 and didn't show any symptoms until AFTER we had gone around the neighbourhood and given out all our candy. He didn't have the vaccine as it wasn't available in our area until after he was sick.

[MamaMolly]

I think I'm missing something. But what is there to be afraid of? I'm not being flippant, I really don't get the question.

FTR we vax, and probably more than most because of travel and living in sketchy areas of the world.

[scrooks]

I do worry... now that there's been an out break of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.

I will not judge you for your decisions, as long as you don't judge me for not coming to your house for a playdate.

:yeahthat: although I can say, I do not know any vocal non-vax people.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Not really- they get most vaccines and I figure they are mostly protected. So, while I would avoid a playdate if the other kid had a communicable illness like measles I don't stress about who we might encounter the rest of the time.

Beth

[Gena]

We fully vax. We hang out with a lot of other families who have kids with special needs and among our crowd it is a mix of families who fully vax, partially vax, selectively vax, and don't vax at all. We talk about it openly and are respectful of each other's decisions.

I don't worry at all about DS being around non-vaxed kids.

[boltfam]

I fear him being with children who are not vaxed - before he is old enough to have a vax. For example, before DS was old enough for the pertussis vaccine, I would have been nervous about knowingly being with other children who were not vaccinated.


I do worry... now that there's been an out break of measles in Boston, I certainly don't want my kids to get it. What's next? Polio? Diptheria? There's a reason these vaccines were created, and while I totally understand why some families choose not to vaccinate their children, I do worry about the future of these diseases and my children.


:yeahthat:


I think I'm missing something. But what is there to be afraid of? I'm not being flippant, I really don't get the question.

FTR we vax, and probably more than most because of travel and living in sketchy areas of the world.

I'm sure someone here is more knowledgable on this topic and could give a better answer, but the worry would be with children who haven't received a given vaccine or haven't received enough of the vaccine to be immune.

Also, vaccines aren't 100% effective in preventing the disease, which means a child who has been vaccinated for pertussis could still get it if exposed to someone with it.

[AnnieW625]

I think I'm missing something. But what is there to be afraid of? I'm not being flippant, I really don't get the question.

FTR we vax, and probably more than most because of travel and living in sketchy areas of the world.

I agree with this statement too, but if there was a larger outbreak I think I might think twice about a few things like the quote I quoted, but as a whole it's not something that really makes me think twice. My kids are vaxed, and as an example Jeana's son isn't, but if we lived in Jeana's area and my girls were friends with Jeana's sons I'd let them go to Jeana's for a playdate.

[MamaMolly]

:yeahthat:



I'm sure someone here is more knowledgable on this topic and could give a better answer, but the worry would be with children who haven't received a given vaccine or haven't received enough of the vaccine to be immune.

Also, vaccines aren't 100% effective in preventing the disease, which means a child who has been vaccinated for pertussis could still get it if exposed to someone with it.

Right, I get that. But what difference does that make for my kid who has been vaxed? Wouldn't an un-vaxed person be more ...um...dangerous (I guess?) to other unvaxed people, than to a vaxed one?
Scratching head here. You guys educate me...;)

[niccig]

I'm sure someone here is more knowledgable on this topic and could give a better answer, but the worry would be with children who haven't received a given vaccine or haven't received enough of the vaccine to be immune.

Also, vaccines aren't 100% effective in preventing the disease, which means a child who has been vaccinated for pertussis could still get it if exposed to someone with it.

But you wouldn't know if someone had vaccines or not. Nor, do you know if the person is ill until it's too late. At least in our experience the other child is perfectly fine then after the playdate, they spike a fever and are sick. Too late as you're already exposed.

I don't know if I'm up to date on my vaccines - you would have to fear everyone in your community, not go out at all. Because yes someone might not be vaccinated/had the illness and you might be exposed at the mall or the airport - like the lady that had measles but wasn't diagnosed until after she flew on a plane. It's going to happen, and I can't control it unless I insist that every child/adult anywhere near DS has immunity, either natural or vaccinated. I'm not going to worry over it as then I would be worrying about every interaction DS has. That's too much worrying. I do what I can for my child, that's all I can do.

[kedss]

It's not something I ask a perspective playdate, and its not something that comes up at our preschool, as since our preschool requires vaccinations to enroll, its not something I think about.

[JBaxter]

I have one, and I was born in 1983....I have no clue which vaccine it was from though. I will have to ask my mom!

I was born in 1967 and the "big deal" when I went to kindergarten in 1972 was you didnt need the small pox vaccine to get into school. Some of my class mates had the vax because of siblings being vax'd so they got it

[Pyrodjm]

It's not something I ask a perspective playdate, and its not something that comes up at our preschool, as since our preschool requires vaccinations to enroll, its not something I think about.

I just wanted to point out that most daycares and schools have to accept vaccine waivers, so you can't really be sure weather your child's classmates are vaxed or not. I taught in public school and had a few unvaxed students. I only know because the parents mentioned it to me. Otherwise, that info stays with the school nurse. Until they mentioned it to me I thought all students HAD to be vaxed to attend. Just something to think about for those concerned about their children being around unvaxed children on a regular basis.

[JBaxter]

It's not something I ask a perspective playdate, and its not something that comes up at our preschool, as since our preschool requires vaccinations to enroll, its not something I think about.

Um if your in VA you can get a waiver. Sometimes you need to push the issue but you can get one

[kedss]

Guess I was making an assumpion, based on my experience with the families at the school, but thanks for letting me know. ;)

[Moneypenny]

I don't fear unvaxed children in any way. It's not even something that is on my radar.

[dec756]

somewhat fearful..my best friend does not vaccinate but we have only met her son once (they live veryyyy far away).

[boltfam]

*
Right, I get that. But what difference does that make for my kid who has been vaxed? Wouldn't an un-vaxed person be more ...um...dangerous (I guess?) to other unvaxed people, than to a vaxed one?
Scratching head here. You guys educate me...;)

Right...an un-vaxed person is a greater threat(?) to another un-vaxed person.

I realize everyone has different comfort levels, and everyone is entitled to do what they feel is right. I'm just attempting to explain what the worry would be in regard to un-vaxed people being around vaxed people.

That being said, I am not going to worry too much about an un-vaxed person being near my children once my children have been vaccinated.

[elephantmeg]

no, I feel like I've done what I can do and trust that it is enough.

[brittone2]

With respect to Polio, in an outbreak, a child vaxed with IPV who is exposed to wild polio still cultures the wild virus in their gut. The child vaxed with IPV would have good protection against his/her own paralysis. However, the child with IPV can infect a non vaccinated child with WPV and can still excrete wild polio in his/her feces.

Similarly with pertussis, vaccinated individuals can spread pertussis. The vax is a vaccination against a toxin produced by the pertussis bacteria. But vaccinated children and adults are still capable of spreading pertussis.

[fortato]

I won't go out of my way to find out if one of Jack's playmates has or has not been vaccinated. If I know, then I make my own judgement on whether or not he will play there.


I guess it's my own problem when I don't want an unvaxed child playing with my vaxed one. One cancels out the other, right? But- it's a chance I don't want to take. And, having pertussis as an adult sucked. Having while pregnant sucked worse... so I can only imagine if one of my kids had it. If I can prevent that, then I will.

[crl]

No. I'm not particularly a worrier about that sort of thing anyway. And the vaccine presumably imparts immunity. So I would think, theoretically, the kind of contact to worry most about would be unvaccinated to unvaccinated children.

Catherine

[SnuggleBuggles]

I just wanted to point out that most daycares and schools have to accept vaccine waivers, so you can't really be sure weather your child's classmates are vaxed or not. I taught in public school and had a few unvaxed students. I only know because the parents mentioned it to me. Otherwise, that info stays with the school nurse. Until they mentioned it to me I thought all students HAD to be vaxed to attend. Just something to think about for those concerned about their children being around unvaxed children on a regular basis.

I posted before ds2 was set the 2yo preschool program because since the time I sent my deposit and the start of school they changed their vaccine policy. Kids needed all vaccines and no waivers would be accepted. It was a private school and they could make those rules.

Beth

[eh613c]

No, I don't have an issue with it. I know my child is protected.

[rin]

I have one, and I was born in 1983....I have no clue which vaccine it was from though. I will have to ask my mom!

Are you from the US? I was born in 1980 in the US and don't have one but went to high school in Switzerland and most of my friends there did have the vaccine scars on their upper arms. I never asked around, but they looked just like the scars my parents had that I knew were from smallpox so I just assumed they were giving the vaccine much more recently in other countries.

ETA: Totally forgot; we do all vaccinations, but live in a part of the country where a LOT of people don't. If we kept our family away from everyone who wasn't vaccinated, we wouldn't be able to have much of a social life, so we just grin and grit our teeth and stay away from parties/etc if there's an outbreak of something like pertussis (which there was last fall).

[WolfpackMom]

Are you from the US? I was born in 1980 in the US and don't have one but went to high school in Switzerland and most of my friends there did have the vaccine scars on their upper arms. I never asked around, but they looked just like the scars my parents had that I knew were from smallpox so I just assumed they were giving the vaccine much more recently in other countries.

ETA: Totally forgot; we do all vaccinations, but live in a part of the country where a LOT of people don't. If we kept our family away from everyone who wasn't vaccinated, we wouldn't be able to have much of a social life, so we just grin and grit our teeth and stay away from parties/etc if there's an outbreak of something like pertussis (which there was last fall).

Yep, I am. Hmmm mystery!

[ett]

I don't fear unvaxed children in any way. It's not even something that is on my radar.

:yeahthat: I worry about enough other things already.

[llama8]

I do worry. Not vaccinating puts my child at risk for diseases that should not be around anymore. These outbreaks are scary.

[scrooks]

No, I don't have an issue with it. I know my child is protected.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the question was posed by the original poster because no vax is 100% effective so if even if your child is vaxed your child could be one of a small percentage that is not protected. Therefore an unvaxed child could put you child at risk.

[JBaxter]

I know its not a debate but you will always have situations like with the chicken pox where children actually contract them from the vaccine. It happened in our previous church nursery. His parents thought he had a diaper rash that morning but he had contracted the pox from his 1 yr old shots. I think 2 other non walkers contracted them from him. I know its not really common but those situations do occur.

[Jo..]

I was born in 1967 and the "big deal" when I went to kindergarten in 1972 was you didnt need the small pox vaccine to get into school. Some of my class mates had the vax because of siblings being vax'd so they got it

born in 1971 and I think that was the year it stopped. I have no scar. :thumbsup:

[kijip]

We are 100% vax peeps and we vax on schedule because the things I have read (which were pro-delayed or spaced out shots or just plain antivax), I have personally not found to be compelling enough for me to veer from the schedule reccomended by my ped.

I do not worry about individual unvax-ed kids, but I do worry about concentrations of many unvax-ed people and kids. I live near an island where vax rates are lower, as I understand it, than any other place west of the Mississippi. I would think twice about either going there during an outbreak or about moving there and enrolling my kids in their schools.

[MamaMolly]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the question was posed by the original poster because no vax is 100% effective so if even if your child is vaxed your child could be one of a small percentage that is not protected. Therefore an unvaxed child could put you child at risk.

But conversely aren't our vaxed kids an equal risk to the non-vaxed? Again, not being combative or argumentative, I am trying to figure this out.

Ok, so Vaccines aren't 100%. I get that. But I don't see where a healthy individual (either vaxed or non vaxed) is any more threat than any other.

[hillview]

I don't fear unvaxed children in any way. It's not even something that is on my radar.

:yeahthat:

But I am now mulling it over :) I am always on the look out to worry about something new!
/hillary

[scrooks]

But conversely aren't our vaxed kids an equal risk to the non-vaxed? Again, not being combative or argumentative, I am trying to figure this out.

Ok, so Vaccines aren't 100%. I get that. But I don't see where a healthy individual (either vaxed or non vaxed) is any more threat than any other.

I guess a healthy individual vaxed or not is not a problem. I just think the worry is that if there is an outbreak of something.

[wellyes]

In theory: outbreaks happen in unvaxed populations more frequently. Outbreaks are where mutations can occur. Current vaccines may not protect against mutated diseases.

But that at a macro level. I do have friends with unvaxed kids and don't give a thought to hanging out with them.

[spanannie]

Um if your in VA you can get a waiver. Sometimes you need to push the issue but you can get one

I'm in TX and it's very easy to get a waiver. At my son's school (private), we don't even have to turn it shot records.

My son is fully vaxed, as is my middle daughter, but my youngest is not. She is partially vaxed (against the things she'd be most likely to get).

I don't worry about my children being around un-vaxed kids.

[bubbaray]

I do fear unvaxed children. No vax is 100% safe and vaccination medicine relies on herd immunity, not just individual immunity.

In our metro area, measles and mumps have had recent outbreaks and both TB and polio are found here due to the high immigrant population from Asia and South Asia.

[JBaxter]

I do fear unvaxed children. No vax is 100% safe and vaccination medicine relies on herd immunity, not just individual immunity.

In our metro area, measles and mumps have had recent outbreaks and both TB and polio are found here due to the high immigrant population from Asia and South Asia.

But there is no TB vaccine is there?

[AshleyAnn]

I worried about it when she wasn't fully vaxed and I DID avoid unvaxed children but she's now on schedule so no I don't worry. Vaccines are supposed to protect her if she meets the germs right? Thats the whole point of the shots. I worried enough about getting the shots in the first place. I worry more about myself than DD because vaccines can wear off as you age (DH was revaxed by the Army. Twice.)

[daisymommy]

Canada has been certified polio free for the last 17 years. Any cases that have occurred are contracted from the live oral polio vaccine (which has been done away with here in the US).

[bubbaray]

Wild polio (polio not caused by the shot itself) has not been found in the entire Western hemisphere of the world since 1975.


Not true. It is found in India: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/india.aspx

http://www.bccdc.ca/dis-cond/a-z/_p/Polio/default.htm

We do have polio here, from contact with unimmunized people who have traveled (usually to India).

[MamaMolly]

In theory: outbreaks happen in unvaxed populations more frequently. Outbreaks are where mutations can occur. Current vaccines may not protect against mutated diseases.


Oooohhhhh. Ok. That makes sense! I think I am starting to get it. I don't mean to be a dunce, I really do appreciate you guys spelling it out for me.

[daisymommy]

Sorry, I got that here:
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vpd-mev/poliomyelitis-eng.php

It says on several Canadian health websites that Canada has been certified polio free since 1994.

And my post should have read 1975 for the U.S and 1991 for the Western Hemisphere of the world (do a Google).

[eh613c]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the question was posed by the original poster because no vax is 100% effective so if even if your child is vaxed your child could be one of a small percentage that is not protected. Therefore an unvaxed child could put you child at risk.

You're right no vaccine is 100%. However, the risks are too small for a vaccinated child to acquire polio, rubella, etc. If the vaccinated child does get the disease, it won't be as bad because his/her body already has antibodies that can fight off the virus. Many of the outbreaks that you hear on the news are children who are not vaccinated because their parents are either afraid that the vaccine will cause autism (which has been proven over the past several years that is NOT the case) or they have a herd mentality (since everyone else is vaccinated my kid doesn't need vaccine because no one will get these diseases).

[AshleyAnn]

In theory: outbreaks happen in unvaxed populations more frequently. Outbreaks are where mutations can occur. Current vaccines may not protect against mutated diseases.


Thanks for giving me a new fear. I didn't even realize this was a possibility. One more reason to be pro-vax.

[JBaxter]

deleted
But no my reasonings for my vaccine decisions are NOT to do with autism

[daisymommy]

Or maybe we don't vaccinate for the other one hundred serious complications that can occur after vaccinating (life-long seizures, paralysis, brain damage just to name a few) or maybe it's the formaldehyde, aluminum, hydrochloric acid and other toxins that I don't want injected into my child's body. Do some reading yourself instead of just repeating what you hear on the news.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statistics_report.htm#claims_filed

Listing year by year of all the adverse events reported after people received vaccinations (CDC estimates this is only 10% of all reactions)
http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-1.pdf

And FWIW...if you do some reading you will find that several viruses have mutated as a result of the vaccine--not the unvaccinated. Pertussis is one of them. Google CDC and pathogen adaptation and pertussis. I'll try to find the link. The bacterial meningitis vax. is another one.

Updated:
Nature abhors a vacuum. Wipe out one bacteria and that leaves the door open for another bad boy to take it's place. It's called serotype replacement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/health/14vacc.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=19A&st=cse
The vaccine, Prevnar, is aimed at seven types of bacteria that were responsible for 70 to 80 percent of pneumococcal illness during the 1990s. Because pneumococci come in 91 forms, experts have worried from the start whether bacteria that were just as deadly, but not wiped out by the vaccine, might move in as opportunists when the competition suddenly vanished.

“Nature abhors a vacuum,” said Dr. Steven Black of Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. Indeed, almost all pneumococcal infections among American children today are caused by versions not covered by the vaccine, and 19A is leading the way.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Thanks for giving me a new fear. I didn't even realize this was a possibility. One more reason to be pro-vax.

On the other hand (coming from someone who does vax, just on a spaced out schedule), aren't all the vaccines kind of like the over use of antibiotics that are creating super bugs? I wonder if the things we are trying to prevent might have been better just gotten through, like chicken pox of some of our youths. While it can kill most people just get, are miserable for a short time and move on. Are there some illnesses that maybe we shouldn't be trying to prevent in hopes of sparing some more insidious strains of it?

Beth

[kijip]

Just once I would like to see a thread like this without debate that calls the other side out as ignorant in not so many words. This goes in both directions. If it is ok to discuss the risks of vax, it is ok to discuss the risks of not vax. It should also not be assumed that anyone that disagrees with a particular side or the other is merely spouting what they heard on the news. Some people fear vax, some people fear non-vax exposure. It is ok to disagree.

[bubbaray]

Do some reading yourself instead of just repeating what you hear on the news.



Niiiice.

[dotgirl]

Do some reading yourself instead of just repeating what you hear on the news.
[/I]

Just reading this now, and not stating my preference, but it seemed like a pretty civil discourse until this. I don't understand why someone who is clearly anti-vax would even go into a "if you vax .." thread.

[essnce629]

Guess I was making an assumpion, based on my experience with the families at the school, but thanks for letting me know. ;)

Yep, you can definately get a religious exemption for vaccines in VA. We lived in Cville for 3 years and had a religious exemption for DS1 for both preschool and kindergarden. It's just a form you print online, sign, have notarized, and give to the school. That's it. We never had any issue with either school accepting it and I know there are a lot of non-vaxers in Cville. DS1 is unvaccinated and got chickenpox his kindergarden year when I was pregnant with DS2. The school said it had been going around. We had a chickenpox party and had no trouble finding other Cville families to attend (we even made the nightly news!) So yeah, you wouldn't really know who is or is not vaccinated. DS2 and I attend a weekly playgroup with our MOMS Club and I have no idea if the other kids are vaccinated or not. It's just never come up in conversation in the 10 months we've been attending!

ETA: DS1 is actually not fully unvaccinated. He had 2 shots at 7 months, and 1 shot at 8 months, and then I stopped. DS2 is unvaccinated.

[klwa]

I fear him being with children who are not vaxed - before he is old enough to have a vax. For example, before DS was old enough for the pertussis vaccine, I would have been nervous about knowingly being with other children who were not vaccinated.

That's more me, too. My brother & SIL were talking about not vaxing, and it worried me when I was expecting DS, that DNephew would catch something & pass it on because they hadn't gotten him vaxed. It was more worrisome to me since our mother had had polio as a child & the after-effects were starting to show up by that point.

[L'sMommy]

No, I don't worry about this, although the thought has crossed my mind.

[calv]

I guess we selective vax since we don't do the flu, roto or chicken pox vaccines. DC had a seizure right after a vax (and it was scariest thing to ever witness w/your own child) and ever since that incident, we space them out. Otherwise kids receive everything else.

[WolfpackMom]

Just once I would like to see a thread like this without debate that calls the other side out as ignorant in not so many words. This goes in both directions. If it is ok to discuss the risks of vax, it is ok to discuss the risks of not vax. It should also not be assumed that anyone that disagrees with a particular side or the other is merely spouting what they heard on the news. Some people fear vax, some people fear non-vax exposure. It is ok to disagree.

:yeahthat: But I doubt it will happen. It would be helpful if people could just focus on the question asked by the OP and answer then leave it at that, but this is how it goes with hot button issues. :hug:

[daisymommy]

The reason I said that--and while it may not have been said with the kindest tone in my voice, I'm sorry about that, I should have left that out--is I am so tired of people assuming that the only reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they ignorantly believe that vaccines cause autism, and since studies say vaccines don't, then what is our problem? That may be true for some people, but certainly not all. I don't know anyone who doesn't vax. for the single reason of autism prevention. It's for a host of other reasons that the mainstream media never touches upon.
Or that we are riding on the coat tails of herd immunity thinking we are safe because everyone else did us a favor (fwiw...we don't think that way either).

The only reason parents believe these ideas is because that is what is spouted off in the news. It's not from doing any reading of books or articles weighing in on both sides the problem--because if it were, people would know there are at least a dozen non-crazy reasons that parents don't vaccinate on schedule. Give us a little more credit than that! We've done our research. But when people start pointing fingers and saying it's because we don't vax due to autism concerns that have been proven unfounded--well that's a lack of research on the issue. When someone says we are relying on society's herd immunity (basically mooching off other's hard work)--well that's not an informed belief either.

[JBaxter]

There are threads that always go this way. EVERY ONE The OP asked if one worried about unvax'd children but in reality you have no clue who is vaccinated who is partially vaccinated who is not at all. The US is the most heavily vaccinated in the world. The current group of 5 people who have measles in Boston is from France. There was some lady with measles flying through the DC area I do believe she was from a different country. Pertussis is dangerous in young infants If I didnt breast feed I probably would have been more worried even though they are finding that large % of people that had documented pertussis were UTD on vaccines. I may have been slightly concerned about HiB ( even though my ds1 had meningitis of an uncovered strain as a toddler) but after reading up on the disease I discovered that breastfed infants had INSANELY low numbers on contracting HiB

Before we changed my vaccine stance I was not worried even after my older 2 got chicken pox about 3 yrs after hey had the vaccine. No vaccines are not 100% but as parents we all make choices for your children. I chose ( then) to vaccinate and not worry. Now I choose to very selectively vaccinate and again not worry.

I did take time to read both sides. A lot of my concerns of vaccines from what they are made of and from. One of my BFF's is works for a company who produces vaccines I pick her brain a lot. We have different views but thats life. She doesnt see a reason to keep her kids from mine nor mine from hers. Its a hot button issue and one mistyped post can set people off ( like typing people who dont vaccinate are afraid of autism-- for me thats a trigger statement) Ask me why I stopped I have no problem sharing.

[BabyBearsMom]

Do some reading yourself instead of just repeating what you hear on the news.


Um...I'm not really sure where this came from after reading the comments in the thread. I do vaccinate and I think that I did an awful lot of reading and research when I made that decision, as have many of the people on this very well educated board.

I wouldn't say I actively worry now about DD being exposed to unvaccinated children (although I did before she got her third pertussis shot). However, if someone were to tell me that her children weren't vaccinated, I would probably have to think more carefully about whether or not I wanted DD to be around the children. It would definitely concern me, especially during an outbreak period

[wellyes]

in reality you have no clue who is vaccinated who is partially vaccinated who is not at all.

It comes up surprisingly often for us... maybe because with "what's new" conversations with infants, talk about the latest ped visit is an easy conversation topic. ("Jack just went in for his 6 month appt." "Oh, how'd be handle the shots?") I know a number of parents who don't vax. But they aren't preachy about it --- no one is on either side, that I've seen. Real life conversation is so much more civil sometimes!

The only reason parents believe these ideas is because that is what is spouted off in the news.
The exactly flipside of "only reason parents don't vax is because they're afraid of autism!" Let's all give each other a little more credit, please.

[dec756]

"I am so tired of people assuming that the only reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they ignorantly believe that vaccines cause autism, and since studies say vaccines don't, then what is our problem?"

i am just curious as to what the reasons are for not vaccinating at all. can anyone explain why they feel the way that they do?

we vaccinate but we will only do 2 shots at a time. our concern was the pain factor and also injecting too many things into him at one time. i have found that we have a perfect balance now. also i feel socially responsible for doing our part to stop the spread of deadly diseases in our community

[HIU8]

I fear him being with children who are not vaxed - before he is old enough to have a vax. For example, before DS was old enough for the pertussis vaccine, I would have been nervous about knowingly being with other children who were not vaccinated.

:yeahthat: I had friends who are non-vaxers. I would not let them bring their kids around my kids until my kids were vaxed. No longer an issue as they have moved overseas.

[daisymommy]

i am just curious as to what the reasons are for not vaccinating at all. can anyone explain why they feel the way that they do?



Please refer back to my post #61. That gives two of the biggest reasons and link-sources to back up my statements. One of the other reasons is many doctors, scientists, and concerned parents believe that the onslaught of vaccinations is destroying--rather than building--our children's immune system. It appears that in so many children their immune system's are shot to heck. They just can't keep up with what we are throwing at them.

Everyone else I know IRL vaccinates their kids. And yet, they are sick all.the.time. Every single thing that comes along, everyone passes it all around. And they all say, well, that's normal, at least we're building their immune system, and when they get older they won't get sick as often. But frankly, I'm not seeing it. Because now they are older, like all the way up to age 10, and everyone is still getting sick. And so did my son when he was vaccinated.

But now that we don't, there is one cold virus that goes on in our family each Winter, and that is it. The doctor always looks at my kids charts and comments, "huh, I haven't seen you since last year!" very surprised that everyone is so healthy all the time. My DD and DS#1 have never had anything besides Tylenol--no antibiotics, etc.

This is just one example of how the immune system can become compromised by constant vaccinations.

There are other reasons, but these are my main issues:
-Toxins and heavy metals in vaccines not safe to be injected into our bodies.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-1.pdf

-Severe life long reactions or death from from vaccinations (and Federal law prohibits protects vaccine manufacturers from being sued).
Data year by year of reactions (the CDC estimates only 10% of all reactions are ever reported) http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data/
http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data/

-Compromises the immune system rather than strengthening it.

-Lack of research into safety, rushing vaccines through without proper testing periods, unethical shady behavior on the part of drug companies and the FDA, CDC = lack of trust on my part.
Conflict of interest: the CDC's Safety Committee is financially tied to the vaccines (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/health/policy/18cdc.html?_r=2)which they approve, biasing them in favor of vaccines. They are not objective judges looking out for our child's health. Similarly, the pharmaceutical industry has a massive political voice (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/04/hoards-of-hired-guns-earned-about-1.html), encouraging the federal government to be pro-vaccine.

-Vaccines causing viruses to mutate and adapt into strains that are not covered by vaccines--and are sometimes worse than the original virus we were trying to get away from (so we are then always chasing the next one that needs to be developed and added to the already long list of shots your child gets). It's similar to creating antibiotic resistance.

-The belief that the viruses/diseases my child is likely to contract are not as severe as the possible reactions to the vaccines themselves. Some vaccines even cause the very illness that it was designed to prevent.

-- If you get the real thing, you get full immunity to it, and possibly to other diseases --for instance, women who get childhood mumps have increased immunity to ovarian cancer. (This is due to the correct stimulation of the Th1, or cell-mediated, immune system, which thwarts cancer.)

-Vaccines are not as effective or long lasting as once believed, and as such the benefits do not outweigh the risks.

-There is an argument being made that vaccines did not save the world from disease the way many people believe. But rather as society improved in the way of nutrition, sanitation, clean water, no sewage in the rivers, better health care, etc., disease rates rapidly declined as a result, before the vaccines were even invented. I know these graphs have been argued before, but there were then rebuttal statements about those arguments, etc.. It just goes round and round.
http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/us-deaths-1900-1965.gif
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
http://vacinfo.org/decline.htm


I hope that helped answer your question :)