At Home Math Fun/Learning for Three Year Old?

[sste]

I know there have been threads on this before and the suggestion (including from me!) has always been daily life stuff. But, DH and I already do lots of the let's count, let's add, let's divide when we are cooking, eating, in daily life, etc. and I am not sure what daily life stuff to do next. Or if I should be doing something else?

Also, DS is 3.25 and I have zero idea of where kids should be in terms of math reasoning and if he is normal or needs extra help. So far, he can:

1. Count multiple items - - up to ten with high reliability. And he can give me X number if I ask him for it. He started doing this around 2.5 though with numbers under 5 at first. He also recently started distinguishing by type: 9 blueberries and 1 strawberry on his plate for example. He can't get past 10 counting though, he just doesn't know those numbers.

2. He is actually very good with which number is more - - probably because we play it using cookies or treats. In fact, last week I said, if you want more, would you rather have two cookies or three cookies and he said I would rather have two cookies and three cookies!

3. He is just starting to add: so he can get 1 plus 1 or 1 plus three or a very easy combo but if I want him to add two plus four I need to show him my fingers and then he knows to count to get the sum. But he is not doing that in his head. I have no idea if he should be.

4. He can add or take away X number of objects from a pile. He def. understands those concepts.

5. He is starting to divide in half. So, the other day there were four cookies and I told him to give half to his babysitter and he immediately handed her two. He can some/most of the time divide a shape into half.

What do I do next conceptually? I feel like I was math phobic (despite actually quite decent testing performance in that regard) and I want to make sure DS is math literate. And since he had some delays prior to age 2 I also want to be sure he is on track.

[katydid1971]

I would add in some geometry. We have this toy and its great for seeing how shapes work together
http://www.amazon.com/MightyMind-LEI-40100-Mighty-Mind/dp/B00000K3XI/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1298926318&sr=1-1
Tangrams and patterning blocks would also be good for this
Also supervised exploration with a tape measure (they can be dangerous so supervise DS) is always fun. How tall is the dog, the chair, mommy etc

[SnuggleBuggles]

You might want to research first what is truly possible for a 3yo. Some concepts just aren't things that can be grasped until their brain moves onto being able to process more abstract things. That's where I would start. I bet someone has a book or resource to get that information.

He really and truly is above track, not on it. :) So many things just come naturally and come up naturally. I think as long as you respond to his abilities and interests then you'll be fine. Like, when they are little and you say, "do you see the car? where is the car?" then eventually you progress to "do you see the truck [vs car]?" up to things like, "do you see the blue car?". You just keep building on things they might know and see how they respond. I never really sat down and though, "gee, his really behind on his colors so we need to do those" but I knew he had mastered the other stuff so it was an obvious progression.

Have you seen the Brain Quest for 3yo cards? Those are really fun for all sorts of subjects.

Beth

[mommylamb]

DS is 3.5 now and he LOVES numbers. I know this is going to sound strange, but he has been obsessed with this book since he was about 18 months and it really has had a huge impact on his math ability. http://www.amazon.com/One-Hundred-Ways-Get-100/dp/0439389135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298926476&sr=8-1

He loves to count with that book, and has been able to count to 100 since before he turned 3. Now he recognizes much larger numbers and will say things like ten has 1 zero, 100 has 2 zeros, 1,000 has 3 zeros, etc.

I have a total math phobia, but I'm trying to encourage him because he seems so interested in numbers. He is starting to learn to add, and when we're in the car, he likes to play "which number is bigger/smaller" and he is right really often, but not always. He thinks it's a fun game though.

The other thing that book helped with is that he can now read equations, even if he doesn't understand what they mean (like he can read 900 (division sign seems to be missing on my keyboard) 10 = 90)

I think I might get him an abacus at some point soon to help him with addition. He understands the basic concepts.

[arivecchi]

That sounds pretty advanced for a 3 yo. My 4 yo who is in preschool is not doing those things yet. He counts to 20, he does not add, he does know which number is higher, but it is all informal. We have not really focused on that at all. We are more formally working a bit on letters right now at home.

I dunno, I just don't like to push my kiddo this early on. I figure he will have a lifetime of schooling ahead of him. Maybe I am the exception though. Don't mean to criticize parents who do more at this stage, it just does not feel right to me right now.

Just my very humble 2 cents sste! :)

[sste]

Oh but it sounds like your four year old is doing those things already, naturally. Also, I imagine your spatial/math genetics are MUCH better than ours!

We don't really sit down per se and work on it - - I just bring it up in conversation or when we are walking or playing. So, we play trains and I will ask how many trains in the line or we are reading and I ask him to count or we are playing blocks and I say take away three and put them in the digger. I did have one foam counting toy that I tried to sit down and work on him with . . . and let's just say there a zillion little foam pieces that are now the "dumping load" for his truck!

But, I have reached the point where I am bringing up the same things because it is all I know to bring up and DS is getting a bit smug because he is getting the answers right consistently. Also, I don't hang with three year or four year olds much at all so I don't have a sense of what they should be able to do . . . it sounds like things are better than I thought for DS though. :) I do think I have some trauma from his early EI evaluations where everything was "your child is 50% delayed."

[arivecchi]

I guess an abacus might be a good start then.

http://www.amazon.com/Melissa-Doug-Classic-Wooden-Abacus/dp/B00005BVRQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1298927860&sr=1-1

I just got an ipad and I uploaded some fun learning apps there, so that might be another idea. We are using a game for letters on our ipad right now with great results.

I also recently got this:

http://www.amazon.com/Step2-Easel-Magnetic-Letters-Numbers/dp/B001BSBYAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298927758&sr=8-1

We plan to start using it once DS1 shows some interest in numbers. It's cool because it can also be used for arts and crafts.

I hope that helps!

Not sure about the genetics BTW. ;)

I am awful at math!

[arivecchi]

Sorry if I am coming accross as preachy BTW. I was pushed quite a bit as a kiddo so I want to be more relaxed about this kind of thing with my boys! :) Call me the anti-tiger mom. LOL.

[sste]

You didn't come across as preachy at all. I agree! We don't do anything unless it is fun - -I think kids should enjoy childhood and my understanding has always been that the best thing you can do is have an absolute association for your child between learning and fun.

Part of the reason I am thinking about this too is that our sitter is completing her training to be a preschool teacher. She is really incredible with DS and somehow manages to use play but keep his mind going, going, going. She watches DS 1-2 days per week and I told her I would buy whatever materials she wanted for cool projects - - sensory, learning, etc. She was really excited because she wants to build her lesson portfolio. I told her she had free reign to experiment on DS as long as it was interactive and fun and hands-on. And so I also figured I would pass along math type ideas to her - - like the measuring tape could be a fun day or two. And modeling with pretzel sticks. Etc. I am also intrigued by mommylamb's book so I am going to check that out.

[Melaine]

My mom just brought me a preschool math curriculum that uses dominos, called pre math-it. I really like it because it is goes right to teaching numeric concepts rather than numbers as symbols...am I saying that right? Rather than focusing on numerals it focuses on quantities. There are lots of things you can do with them, but we just got them so haven't gotten that far. It's old, because my mom had it from homeschooling me!

Here it is: http://www.christianbook.com/pre-math-it/pd/934927?event=AFF&p=1134340&

[arivecchi]

Oh what an awesome opportunity you have with your sitter sste! That sounds great! Mommylamb's DS is a counting genius so I bet that book is great! :thumbsup:

[larig]

I dunno, I just don't like to push my kiddo this early on. I figure he will have a lifetime of schooling ahead of him. Maybe I am the exception though. Don't mean to criticize parents who do more at this stage, it just does not feel right to me right now.


I'm the same way. I make sure that DS has stuff to play with that can foster some number sense, etc. but that's as far as I go with DS. We count together a lot when we're walking or doing anything (like waiting for netflix to adjust its stream). He has ipad games too.

Here's another toy that we have, for example. http://www.amazon.com/Lauri-Toys-Shape-Color-Sorter/dp/B00000IV8D --you can use it to set up patterns, like square, circle, square, circle...DS what goes next? Tangoes/tangrams are great too. Anything that encourages counting. And, believe it or not, I gave DS a big solar calculator. M&D's magnetic shape thing is good too--very open-ended.

Anything (manipulatives, toys, etc) that is dealing with patterns is also something that would be great to work on math reasoning with your kiddo.

[larig]

I told her she had free reign to experiment on DS as long as it was interactive and fun and hands-on. And so I also figured I would pass along math type ideas to her - - like the measuring tape could be a fun day or two. And modeling with pretzel sticks. Etc. I am also intrigued by mommylamb's book so I am going to check that out.

You can also measure things with unconventional measuring devices. Like you could measure how many pretzel sticks long a book is. Introduces the concept of units of measure.

[sste]

http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/three/mathematics.html

OK, everyone I found an interesting link about what your child should be doing/starting to do at different ages. A VERY wide range of normal. And it does in fact look like my DS is fine.

Should anyone else be interested in this, when I was looking at the list it seemed like a few things we could at home that would be fun are: 1) filling different sized vessels with different amounts of water to explain that some hold more than others; 2) drawing a map of a room and having him hunt to find a treasure that is marked on the map; 3) first, last, middle, next sequencing - - perhaps through making drawings of a simple story you make up with the DC, telling the story, and then having the child order them; 4) modeling - - constructing 3D shapes; 5) walk to gather a variety of nature materials and then sorting objects into a class (e.g., put all the soft or hard objects together).

I wish I had the energy but most of this is being passed off to our sitter . . .

[ahisma]

We like this: http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_companies/fat_brain_toy_co/inchimals.cfm

And want this: http://www.treeblocks.com/math_kit.htm

I think the magna tiles are great for mathematical thinking as well.

[arivecchi]

Thanks for the link sste. I needed the reality check!

[egoldber]

He is well above average. MY 4 year old is not doing those things. My 9.5 year old, in a gifted program, and very advanced in math, was not doing those things. We did zero math at home with her really until first grade.

ETA: My 4 year old can do the first one. I've never even asked her about the other things.

[sste]

You know, I am really thinking that most kiddos here can do this sort of thing but they aren't being asked by yours truly whenever they eat, swim, play with bath toys, get a glass of water etc so you all don't know it. It also may be the case that DS has memorized certain things that I think he "understands" or has landed some great guesses or something about my expression cues him.

And, I confess that almost all of this has been done with his favorite foods (berries) and treats and sweets which he doesn't get alot of otherwise (or trains and vehicles). He has caught on very fast to anything where his reward was getting that number of m&ms. Fast like only a sweet-deprived child can catch on!

My most significant non-grad school teaching experience is in . . . dog training.

[mousemom]

Last night I stumbled on this blog called 'No Time for Flashcards" during a search and spent a couple of hours reading through some of the wonderful activities for toddlers/preschoolers. This is a link to the "Math activities category", but there are other math related activities in other categories too. Reading all her ideas made me feel a little inadequate, but also inspired me with new ideas.

http://www.notimeforflashcards.com/category/math-activities

[blisstwins]

My son was speech delayed at 2. Received EI. At 6 he tested 99 percentile on his most recent standardized test and another assessment we had done showed that he has the vocabulary of a 10yo. I think the early childhood stuff is important to watch and I am glad I did EI, but I think they are not a reliable indication of aptitudes or intelligence.

[egoldber]

My earlier response was snarky and I did not mean it to be. :)

What I was trying to say that to foster math aptitude, etc. I don't think you need to provide any specific math enrichment at age 3. DH and I are both quite mathy. But neither of us got any specific math enrichment. (I did not even attend K, I watched soap operas with mom. ;) ). Math concepts, when the child is ready, are as easy to pick up as breathing.

So I truly would try not to stress at all about needing to provide any sort of specific math enrichment or that you may miss a window or that his development is behind. Really. :)

[sste]

I didn't notice any snark . . . this is what ensures my longevity on this board, I am too dense to notice these things! So, no worries. :)

I guess I thought I was doing the right thing based on past posts about incorporating concepts into daily life (how many vitamins, berries, half of the piece of toast). And I had read a summary of research to that effect. We do that all the time. That was how he learned the things I mentioned. Perhaps we did this too much?

It is interesting because with DS I never think of myself as doing anything special verbally except read stories and have him tell me stories - - but because of the way I am wired I catch myself almost reflexively defining terms or asking questions or engaging in word play. So, I think I do a ton that I don't realize in terms of "wordiness." But I don't have the same "natural" tendency to incorporate math into our daily life. Which is why I think about it and ask here. Also based on DH and I, I don't anticipate that DS will demonstrate a significant innate math talent. As a child, I was very good relative to the immediate population but no talent, DH was less than that, and FIL almost flunked out of MIT before switching majors to a humanities area!

ETA: After reading everyone's responses I do feel better about DS being where he is supposed to be. Since he is the first I think I lack all perception of when kids should be doing what. I won't worry about this . . . but I have to admit those fun without flashcard activities would be fun for *me*!

[egoldber]

Oh I do think all that kind of modeling is great! :)

I guess I was speaking more to the hints that I get from your posts, that you feel a need to mentor a talent/interest in your DS and that you might be missing a window if you don't. But he is still really young. :) And even if he is destined to be a Field Medal winner, there is no need to do any fostering at age 3. I think these talents manifest themselves as kids get older.

He sounds naturally mathmatically inclinced and that is great to encourage mathy thinking. But I would consider carefully accelerating his learning of math concepts. I would do more of the math puzzles, shapes, tangrams, logic, type stuff vs. specific math concepts.

[Katigre]

ITA with pp that at his age I'd focus on lots of numbers discussion in daily life, and geometric concepts like patterning.

I'd also strongly recommend doing a lot of music and art - you can explore a lot of math through those two things but they also exercise right brained thinking at the same time.

(I sent you a PM too :)).

[sste]

Beth, I follow a simple life rule that if you say to do something, I will do it. So, I am off to buy the tangrams and puzzles!

I think perhaps this post came off as more intense than I intended - - we honestly don't do any formal lessons l and I wasn't planning on that.

I have long intuitively felt that "math" or really logic and conceptual learning underlying it are primary foundations of later academic success. Part of what I do in my work relies on intuition about theories or errors in theories and I have MANY of my own seemingly bizarre (sometimes truly bizarre) theories. Anyway, after everyone's posts I hunted around just a bit and it seems like preschool "numbers sense" strongly predicts later outcomes. I did not read the original study myself but it is longitudinal meta-analysis finding that an understanding of numbers (e.g., which number is bigger) in pre-k predicts both math and reading success at ages 7 and 14 more strongly than any other measure studied, controlling for prior cognitive ability scores.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2007/11/school-readiness.aspx

Now, based on this it sounds like I am already fairly well set and don't need to start squaring my blueberries any time soon! Also, I think your family is a bit different - - I agree that strong innate talent will surface however and whenever. But for the rest of us it may not be such a wellspring!

Actually, reading this report has bothered me a little because I have held off any learning of letters, any learning of the number symbols, etc. (DS only knows the letter O) in favor of things that were play-based and conceptual rather than memorization. I have also rejected preschool after preschool for being too cognitive or over-focused on memorizing letters/numbers. But, it sounds like knowing numbers, letters, sounds, words, etc. may be very helpful at least until age 14 when the study stops. My further hunch though (based in part on my underlying world view that you are rarely wrong) is that the puzzles, logic etc. that you are talking about pay off big past 14 for advanced math.