Question on discipline for Non Gentle Discipline moms...

[ha98ed14]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm feeling too self conscious, like I said too much. :bag

[AnnieW625]

I honestly have no idea what my parenting style is as I don't read child rearing books (except for Baby Signs, and one about raising a Montessori Child, so including Montessori philosophy at home), but here is what I do.

I tend to threaten a time out without actually following through. When I have had to do time outs, and it's been a while I have put DD in a chair in the middle of the kitchen and set the timer for 2 minutes. If she moves off the chair the timer goes back to 2 minutes. We did this a lot between 2/1/2 and 3/1/2 and I think 6 minutes was the most that she ever had to stay on the chair. I would stand in the door way and watch her the entire time.

We raise our voices probably too much, and if DD1 is in a really horrible mood or hysterically crying and won't calm down I tell her she needs to go sit in her room for a few minutes and sometimes that does the trick. I would rather do that have to go through the whole time out thing.

I have swatted her on the butt, but never without her pants on. I just can't do that and will never resort to using a belt or a ruler. Usually after she has calmed down I tell her that I don't want her doing that again. If we are in the store and she walking next to me I might pull her hand or arm and stearnly tell her to stay close to me. DH will threaten to spank her which he never does, but it drives me batty that DH even says that in public because although our area is somewhat conservative there are a lot of people fully on the other side and way into "peace is everything" and we all shop at Target or Trader Joe's so I am just afraid of us being the target of a mommy drive by or someone really thinking we beat our children.

Screaming and watching too much TV is what our main problem is right now. I created the TV monster because she is an early riser (always has been) and I needed something to keep her entertained while we got ready for work. Just this morning she got up and we told her that she needs to go and take off her pull up and get her panties on she turned around and started beating up the couch and telling us no. It lasted 30 seconds and I tried to stay calm and told her that she could go back to bed if she didn't agree. I also quickly switched the conversation to tell her that when she goes to kindergarten in the fall that there isn't going to be as much or any tv in the AM because we will need to leave the house no later than 7 am. Changing the conversation calmed her down, and I turned off the TV and told her she needed to start getting dressed. She protested a bit, but eventually she got her pants and shirt on and told her to put her pjs on her bed. You kind of had to be there to see it, but hopefully you get the gist of it.

ETA: we do a lot of talking about what we can do, and what she can do. She knows my limits or I think she knows my limits. So I always start the convo. once she has calmed down with a question like, "Elisa, were you suppose to take the trash out of the trash and throw it on the floor?" and then she'll say "no" and I'll say back "then why did you do it? And mommy and daddy we don't do that so please don't do it again." In cases like that if she repeated the not good behavior that is when time out came into play. (hope you got the gist of that)

[wellyes]

I do time outs after 1-2-3 -- sitting with no toys in a quiet spot for a few minutes. Then I go to her, talk about why she's in time out, and ask for an apology. If that doesn't work, I put her in bed for a while. Tell her she must be too tired to behave. I don't know if it's a great idea, but it works so far..... way to get out of a TO situation without backing down from the "child acknowledges what she did wrong" part. Anyway, only happens about once a week.

[mommylamb]

I'm certainly not an AP subscriber, but we do not do any kind of physical punishment at all. Though, I'm pretty lucky because DS is easy. I'm not a yeller, but if I speak to him sternly he gets very upset-- upset enough that I don't need to have any other punishment. We've done time outs, but only on rare occasions. Usually, I just have to ask him (in a stern voice) "do you need a time out?" and he gets upset and says he does not. I'm lucky because his style of acting out fits well with my style of discipline. If he's acting out while we're in public, we leave. I don't put up with it at all and he knows it.

I also try to do a lot of positive reinforcement. I let him know when I like the way he's behaving, and will sometimes give him a treat because I liked the way he asked, or the way he's playing with another child (by treat, I do not necessarily mean a sweet. It could be going to the park for a little while, but sometimes it's a sweet).

Our biggest problem is the whining. I hate it. And I'm not sure how to stop him from doing it. I always tell him to start over and ask again without whining, but it doesn't seem to help. I understand that he's only 3, so this is normal. And it's also normal for him to forget to say please. But it still drives me batty.

[bigpassport]

OP, have you read or seen the Love and Logic method? It might be right up your alley. There is introductory material and tips at www.loveandlogic.com. Also, there are a bunch of video segments on You Tube. Just search "love and logic." You might be able to find a free introductory seminar in your area.

[Katigre]

Just want to say...AP has to do with baby care things like breastfeeding/cosleeping/babywearing and isn't related to discipline per se. I know of families who do the above and start swatting their infants with glue sticks to teach them 'obedience' and think spanking is mandated by God for discipline (and that time outs are 'new age' and too soft). Totally not what I believe...but they extended nurse/cosleep/babywear just like I do.

I think that you might want to change your title to say 'non gentle discipline moms' since GD is a category that is directly related to tactics for handling misbehavior (and is practiced by moms who use wean at 6 weeks and use CIO just as much as by moms who nurse their 2 yo's :)).

[Katigre]

FWIW, I think what is most important in discipline is the consistency with which you follow through (as long as the expectaitions are reasonable), and knowing your child's unique personality and response so that your discipline is relevant and communicates clearly to her. Two resources that are very helpful and applicable no matter your personal choice of consequences are as follows:

1. Love and Logic (early childhood version) (http://www.amazon.com/Love-Logic-Magic-Early-Childhood/dp/1930429002/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1299009273&sr=8-2) - very helpful and practical book for setting up consistent parenting, especially if you're trying to figure out a middle ground between parents of differing ideas
2. GOYB Parenting (http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54) (the underlying concept is relevant no matter if you spank/time out/talk in response to misbehavior - I have friends who spank/use time out who apply this just as much as I do)

[ha98ed14]

Just want to say...AP has to do with baby care things like breastfeeding/cosleeping/babywearing and isn't related to discipline per se. I know of families who do the above and start swatting their infants with glue sticks to teach them 'obedience' and think spanking is mandated by God for discipline (and that time outs are 'new age' and too soft). Totally not what I believe...but they extended nurse/cosleep/babywear just like I do.

I think that you might want to change your title to say 'non gentle discipline moms' since GD is a category that is directly related to tactics for handling misbehavior (and is practiced by moms who use wean at 6 weeks and use CIO just as much as by moms who nurse their 2 yo's :)).

I changed it :) Thanks for the clarification.

As for the crazies who things God commands then to spank their kids, I would run the other way! Who would ever swat an infant?!?

But I think this is why I feel confused. I know what I believe and the message I want to send to DD, but I am unsure if I am really getting it across. I am also 100% against spanking, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a T.O. as a punishment to errant behavior.

This is a stretch, but I figure it this way: We don't hug criminals when they steal a car. They go to jail. Of course DD knows nothing of that; she doesn't even know the word "steal", but my point is that society at large takes a punitive approach to crime, so I want to impress upon her the idea that there are real consequences to wrong behaviors AND they will cost you something you value: time spent with mom & dad (v. away in T.O.), freedom to play with the toys you want, etc. I think an adversity to spanking is also consistent with how society deals with unacceptable behavior. If you get a speeding ticket, it costs you something you value (money), but it is police brutality if the police man hits you. Maybe that is a dumb way to reason it out, but it makes sense to me.

[BabyMine]

What caught my eye in your post was that you thought she was tired or hungry. I have had the high scream tantrums in Target when TT is hungry or tired and I know that is my cue to leave and meet his need.

Discipline methods change as they get older. I remember a mom on here, with a much older child, asked us what are we going to do when they get older?

When sending M to his room didn't work anymore we took all of his toys out and he had to earn them back one at a time.

[ha98ed14]

What caught my eye in your post was that you thought she was tired or hungry. I have had the high scream tantrums in Target when TT is hungry or tired and I know that is my cue to leave and meet his need.


I did leave right after the tantrum and went and got her something it eat, but before I left, I wanted to make the point that we were not going to scream our way out of the store. I wasn't going to carry her out kicking and screaming. We were going to compose ourselves and walk out in a calm and orderly fashion. I know she is capable of composing herself and making it to the car calmly. That's an important lesson in my book and something that I know she is capable of at 3.75. At 2, no way. But I knew she could do it, and she did.

[bigpassport]

my point is that society at large takes a punitive approach to crime, so I want to impress upon her the idea that there are real consequences to wrong behaviors AND they will cost you something you value

This is EXACTLY what Love and Logic teaches. Here is a blurb from their website...

____________

Helping Children Learn Responsibility

At Love and Logic, we believe that the most powerful way of learning to make good decisions is by being allowed to make some small mistakes, experiencing the related consequences, and seeing that the adults around you love you even when you mess up.

Far too many parents rob their kids of such opportunities by making sure that their kids never make mistakes, bailing their children out of the consequences of their mistakes, or creating resentment by showing anger or rejection. Listed below is a process for avoiding these common mistakes:

•Give your children plenty of opportunities to make decisions over small issues. Examples include giving your child a small allowance, allowing them to “choose” whether they remember to bring their lunch to school, or letting them decide whether they want to wear their coat or carry it.
•Hope they make a poor decision. Children learn to make good choices by making poor ones and experiencing the consequences.
•Let empathy and logical consequences do the teaching. Empathy is the key! By being sad for our kids rather than being angry at them, they are allowed to focus on their poor choice rather than our anger.
•Give them the same decision-making tasks again. This communicates a strong message: “We believe that you’ve got what it takes to learn from your poor decisions."
____________

Consequences might come naturally from their decision (e.g. if they forget to bring their lunch, they will go hungry), or it might be a consequence you impose (e.g. time out or chores).

I love the concept that if we consistently give our child choices and face the consequences of the choices early in life, he will grow up to make well reasoned choices throughout his life.