S/O Law School: Paralegal?

[ha98ed14]

Separate from the discussion on law school, but in keeping, I've been toying with the idea of becoming a paralegal. It's the research part I know I would enjoy and truthfully I am not sure how much of the job is research and how much is glorified gofer and coffee maker.

I have an MPP from an Ivy. The law classes were my favorite. Why I got off on reporting the details of cases to a classroom of people is beyond me, but I loved it. My prof told me I "have a good legal mind". There were people in my program who did joint MPP-JD degrees, but by the time I seriously considered it, I was in hock so deep, I couldn't imagine taking out more loans, plus I had an immediate job offer for after I graduated. It felt like a no-brainer.

I worked in state government in a policy position prior to moving to another state and having DD. I KNOW I will never get that kind of job again. I was recruited out of grad school based on work I had done while there. Here, no one knows me. I don't have any connections.

I toyed with the idea of becoming a teacher. That crashed and burned. I'm looking for something for when DD isn't at home. I know one guy who is a paralegal. He works for the county courts and has made a career of it. He likes it, but he is hard to talk to, so that is pretty much all I know.

So WDYT? Should I be a paralegal? Will my background in policy make me attractive at all? What kind of schools do paralegals go to if they DO NOT go to for-profit, rip-you-off, can't-even-call-it-a-school-because-it-has-ads-on-TV-at-3AM?

[bubbaray]

Well, this is JMHO, but I have never understood why people willingly choose to be legal secretaries or paralegals. Lawyers are a BRUTAL group of people to work with/for. Seriously. We are crankly, stressed, it is just not a fun thing for the support staff most of the time.

Have you considered volunteering or interning in policy to get some connections? Given what you have posted in the past about your DH's wage cutbacks, I wouldn't start paying for school of any sort right now. I'd find a way to get back into what you did before.

[ha98ed14]

Have you considered volunteering or interning in policy to get some connections? Given what you have posted in the past about your DH's wage cutbacks, I wouldn't start paying for school of any sort right now. I'd find a way to get back into what you did before.

FTR, I'm toying with the idea. No plans. Don't even know where'd I'd apply. And I wouldn't do it for another 20+ months when DD goes to K. And yes, I have considered volunteering, but, well, I just don't want to go back to that world. If lawyers at the firm level are as difficult as you say, imagine lawyers with political appointments. They had biggest sense of entitlement I've ever known in another human being. I worked harder in that position than I did in grad school!

[MrsMcGwire]

I worked for lawyers for 10 years and it wasn't so bad, hehe. We are all under a lot of stress, but I got along well with my bosses and I've made some lifelong friends in the process!

Being a paralegal is a lot of crap work, but if you like filling out forms and digging around for information, then it may be the job for you. I worked in a personal injury firm so it was fun gathering the medical bills/records and compiling a case for my boss to evaluate. The pay wasn't great, but I wasn't in it for the money, really.

[bigpassport]

The first law firm I worked at used paralegals (with formal paralegal education) and legal assistants (without formal paralegal education) in different capacities. They can probably bill for a paralegal but not for a legal assistant. The firm where I worked the longest used paralegals and legal assistants the same way, so it didn't matter if you had actually gotten a paralegal degree. I think the most important thing is getting your foot in the door and actually start working as a legal assistant. One, you can see if you like it. Two, you can see if a paralegal degree is necessary. Three, many firms hire based on past experience. So if there is any way you can start actually working for a firm first, I would suggest trying that rather than investing in paralegal school first. You may decide you want to go to paralegal school, but you may decide you can be involved in a law firm without a paralegal degree.

[boolady]

What about in a district attorney or prosecutor's office as a case agent? In my office, they are part of the screening process and do case prep work...compiling the files, tracking down police reports, etc. and preparing the cases for presentation to the grand jury, assist/coordinate subpoenas for production of information. They're not paralegals and they're not detectives-- it's one of the non-law enforcement jobs in the office. They all have bachelor's degrees, I know, but I don't know that you'd need to have any specific area. I can't say it pays great, but I know they enjoy what they do.

[ha98ed14]

I think the most important thing is getting your foot in the door and actually start working as a legal assistant. One, you can see if you like it. Two, you can see if a paralegal degree is necessary. Three, many firms hire based on past experience. So if there is any way you can start actually working for a firm first, I would suggest trying that rather than investing in paralegal school first. You may decide you want to go to paralegal school, but you may decide you can be involved in a law firm without a paralegal degree.

Sounds great, but if I have absolutely NO legal experience other than citing statutes and case law that support my party's position on an issue, HOW would I get my foot in the door? Really, I have no legal experience I could put on my resume. Nothing.

P.S. Thanks for the response! Just for information's sake, where are paralegal schools? Are they at 4 year universties, 2 year junior colleges? I promise, I am not running out to sign up today.

[KpbS]

A good paralegal/legal assistant is worth a ton! In our offices (smaller city/small town) they will do a lot of drafting, editing, research, etc. It is definitely a field here where your experience dictates your pay and also there is the potential for flexibility in your hours. I would see if you can contact several people working in the field in your area to get a feel for the nature of the job.

[ha98ed14]

What about in a district attorney or prosecutor's office as a case agent? In my office, they are part of the screening process and do case prep work...compiling the files, tracking down police reports, etc. and preparing the cases for presentation to the grand jury, assist/coordinate subpoenas for production of information. They're not paralegals and they're not detectives-- it's one of the non-law enforcement jobs in the office. They all have bachelor's degrees, I know, but I don't know that you'd need to have any specific area. I can't say it pays great, but I know they enjoy what they do.

Sounds GREAT! How do I get that job????

[ha98ed14]

A good paralegal/legal assistant is worth a ton! In our offices (smaller city/small town) they will do a lot of drafting, editing, research, etc. It is definitely a field here where your experience dictates your pay and also there is the potential for flexibility in your hours. I would see if you can contact several people working in the field in your area to get a feel for the nature of the job.

See, now THAT's what I want! Ok, um, where are the schools? (Not signing up today. I promise.)

[boolady]

Sounds GREAT! How do I get that job????

I'm not sure. I think you would have to look at the appropriate government job listings and just apply. Here, it would be at the county level. You have county DA's offices, right?

Depending on where you are, you might have to take the dreaded civil service test, but not everywhere. There's also the flip side to that at the public defender's office, if you'd prefer that-- they have investigators that do case prep work/investigation.

I'm not going to lie to you, though. It's not tons of money. You would definitely make more (a lot more) as a paralegal at a private firm, but I think you'd have to, or would benefit from, paralegal school if you were going to go private/big firm paralegal. I also think there's a lot less stress here, because you're not doing work for attorneys with billable hours. There is more than enough work here, but the atmostphere is definitely different. The only other issue I thought of after I posted my suggestion is that there may be hiring freezes in your area. I have no idea.

[ha98ed14]

I'm not going to lie to you, though. It's not tons of money. You would definitely make more (a lot more) as a paralegal at a private firm, but I think you'd have to, or would benefit from, paralegal school if you were going to go private/big firm paralegal. I also think there's a lot less stress here, because you're not doing work for attorneys with billable hours. There is more than enough work here, but the atmostphere is definitely different. The only other issue I thought of after I posted my suggestion is that there may be hiring freezes in your area. I have no idea.

Thanks! This is helpful. It gives me hope that I will find SOMETHING to do with myself after DD goes to school.

#1) I don't need tons of money, just some money. We already bought our house, and it's a fixed 30 yrs. We aren't moving.

#2) There are hiring freezes all over the place, but my first field, if your not working for the state, your working at the muni level, and their not hiring either! So it's not like I would be forgoing income to be in school. What I am qualified to do no one is hiring people to do.

#3) There's an ABA accredited program at the local community college within 2 miles of my house! I took classes there previously to keep my mind occupied, and the classes are approx. $30/credit hour, which means one class is less than $100. I could take the intro class and see if I even wanted to pursue it further. That is if I can get in to the class. With all the budget cuts in CA, community colleges have been hit hard. But that's fine. I have time.

[kijip]

I worked as a legal secretary in college, one place was fine, but the other guy I worked for, well, I had to quit he was such a jerk and he seemed obsessed with the idea that I might accuse him of sexual harassment. He never harassed me sexually but he talked about the risk of being accused of it so often it made me wonder what he had done in his past. He did however steal my food, yell at me about his personal issues etc. I left for a lower paying job at the Opera and never looked back. Later the experience factored into my decision not to go to law school.

[bigpassport]

#3) There's an ABA accredited program at the local community college within 2 miles of my house! I took classes there previously to keep my mind occupied, and the classes are approx. $30/credit hour, which means one class is less than $100. I could take the intro class and see if I even wanted to pursue it further. That is if I can get in to the class. With all the budget cuts in CA, community colleges have been hit hard. But that's fine. I have time.

Perfect! I was going to mention paralegal certificaiton courses through community college. You might make a connection in class that will land you a starting job. Also, check your local Craigslist for job postings. In our area, many legal assistant, legal secretary and paralegal jobs are posted on Craigslist. Some attorneys will train (in fact, at my former firm the owner preferred hiring people with NO experience...a blank canvas...so he could train them the way he wanted to). Yes, those jobs will be hard to find but keep checking on Craigslist to see what's available. Good luck!

[longtallsally05]

Have you seen this? http://thepoorparalegal.blogspot.com/

I linked to it from the Shilling Me Softly blog, which was referenced by the 1/8/11 NYT article about law schools.

Anyway, the blog might be worth a look. I had no idea that JDs were competing with paralegals for jobs.

[KpbS]

Some attorneys will train (in fact, at my former firm the owner preferred hiring people with NO experience...a blank canvas...so he could train them the way he wanted to). Yes, those jobs will be hard to find but keep checking on Craigslist to see what's available. Good luck!

Yes to the above--it might be worth making some calls and perfecting your resume and interviewing skills to see if you could land a job like this--after talking with some folks practicing in the field to get an idea of salary, job duties, etc. relative to your area. GL!

[Snow mom]

Have you seen this? http://thepoorparalegal.blogspot.com/

I linked to it from the Shilling Me Softly blog, which was referenced by the 1/8/11 NYT article about law schools.

Anyway, the blog might be worth a look. I had no idea that JDs were competing with paralegals for jobs.

This linked blog mentions my first thought, which is there was just a NYT article about how paralegals are being replaced by computers. I don't know that I would chose to train for a profession that is at risk of being phased out.

[ha98ed14]

This linked blog mentions my first thought, which is there was just a NYT article about how paralegals are being replaced by computers. I don't know that I would chose to train for a profession that is at risk of being phased out.

Ok, so maybe I am barking up the wrong tree...

From the Poor Paralegal:

THE BOTTOM LINE:

Listen folks, it's pretty pathetic when you go for a Paralegal job interview and everyone who is interviewing for that position has a JD. The vast majority of law school graduates, even from many top schools are working as paralegals and taking the jobs away from other paralegals, because they can't find anything else.

The girl I met even told me that once you leave the profession as an attorney or work in a non legal related field, it is extremely hard to get back into the legal profession. My interview went well with the law firm I interviewed with, but I am not getting my hopes up since they are also interviewing law school graduates for paralegal positions! If you do foolishly decide to attend law school, be forewarned, you may end in a job that is quasi legal. You will be a paralegal, file clerk, administrator or legal secretary. Taking out 180k in debt and spending 3 years in law school to get a job where you will answer phones, work on Microsoft Word and use Outlook all day long really isn't worth it.

-The Poor Paralegal

[niccig]

My advice, the legal field is contracting considerably. I would not be going into it in any capacity. And as Bubbray said, working with lawyers isn't always pleasant.

I just figured out what I want to do in the last year, and I went through so many different options - I know I posted about a lot of them here asking for advice. I finally made decisions and am on track, but I honestly never thought I would get here. But I did. Hugs. I know it's very unsettling feeling.

[rin]

Just for a bit of a different take, you mentioned that you'd considered going into teaching but that it had crashed and burned. (If the reason that plan crashed and burned was because you realized it wasn't for you, then please just disregard the rest of what I'm saying!)

What levels were you considering (e.g. elementary, middle school, high school, college, etc?). If you're thinking of doing K-12, this website http://www.teach-now.org/ has information on state-by-state alternative paths to teaching certification, most of which allow you to start in the classroom immediately provided you're taking some sort of ed classes on the side. Some cities (e.g. NYC, DC) have programs like these (https://www.nycteachingfellows.org/Default.asp, http://www.dcteachingfellows.org/licensure.php) which do the same, but also provide you with funding to get your license. FWIW I have a friend who was a NYC teaching fellow, and really enjoyed the program.

Just thought I'd throw this out there!

[egoldber]

The vast majority of law school graduates, even from many top schools are working as paralegals and taking the jobs away from other paralegals, because they can't find anything else.

I hesitated to say it, because I didn't know how true it was nationally, but here in DC I know that law school grads are taking paralegal jobs because the job market is so poor.

[kellij]

At the law firms where I worked, I'm pretty sure you could either have a paralegal degree (no college degree) OR a college degree; you didn't need both. I would definitely check into that more before going to school if you don't need to. My bar journal posts ads for jobs for paralegals as they come up. Why don't you check with your state's bar association and see what they have to say? Since you aren't doing this immediately you could just keep your eye out for any job openings, if they come open give them a call and ask what the requirements are. Alternatively, you could call some law firms in your area, ask to speak to the HR person and then ask what their requirements typically are. In may vary in different regions.

[kellij]

I hesitated to say it, because I didn't know how true it was nationally, but here in DC I know that law school grads are taking paralegal jobs because the job market is so poor.

This is so depressing! I live in Oklahoma and we are told that we haven't been hit as hard as the rest of the country. It must be true because I had no idea it was this bad. How long has the job market been this awful?