act I: illness. act II: extreme violence. help

[lmh2402]

on sat when ds was frighteningly sick, i was saying to DH, "where is ds?! this isn't ds when he's sick...this laying around, barely able to keep his head up, passing-out kid. the ds i know is a misery when he's sick. he's angry and irritable, but he's got life!"

well. that ds is back. he's been back since monday. and i have reached the end of my rope.

i will say that he is still clearly not feeling well. he has eaten only one small meal a day...if that...since sat. he's still coughing a lot. nose is pouring and he's got open sores under his nose and all along his upper lip from i guess being so raw and drippy. and he's not sleeping well. barely any napping.

anyway, we had such tremendous behavior/violence issues a couple of months back. but we've been working with EI, AND he had a huge language burst...and things were just getting better. so much better.

but three days like this and i'm almost unable to remember what it was like when it was good.

can someone help me figure out how i'm supposed to be reacting to all the repeated outbursts. b/c i'm really trying. but i'm failing. pretty miserably.

so examples would be:
- throwing every single toy he can get his hands on. for no apparent reason. like i ask if he wants to do a puzzle. he walks over. gets a puzzle. brings it back to me. and throws it at my face. and if that's not enough. he then picks up the pieces and throws them individually at me.

- throwing wooden blocks. at me. at windows. at furniture. at tv.

- running at me and hitting, slapping, throwing himself on the ground and wildly kicking. biting like a wild man. i have a HUGE welt from his teeth on my forearm from this afternoon.

these are just three things i can think of off the top of my head, but i swear to you...all day today. all day yesterday for my mom. all day mon for me...was awful. just awful.

these episodes/outbursts are happening over. and over. and over.

when he throws, i immediately stop the activity and tell him to pick "it" (whatever it is) up. and if he doesn't, i will hand over hand walk help him. but he will just then grab something else and throw, becoming a nasty cycle.

so i try to move him to a different room/change scenery. and while i'm moving him, he is clawing or biting me.

and then i just try to keep upbeat and say let's read books. and he throws books. and then throws himself on the floor and cries for a while. rolls around moaning on floor begging. BEGGING for tv?!

we do not have the tv on here all the time. he watches elmo in the morning. and usually one 30 min show after dinner.

when he was really sick sat/sun, we did let him lay on the couch and the tv was sometimes on. but seriously. i'm not letting him watch tv non stop.

this tv issue was like a major thorn today.

the weather was nice this afternoon and i convinced him to go out. he was happy for about 15 min. and then he wanted to go in. "and watch tv"

and he threw himself on the concrete and had such a raging screaming scene it was horrifying. i managed to get him in the house without hurting himself, but that's when i got my monster bite welt.

by bedtime i was literally shaking and barely able to contain my own screams.

tell me. remind me. how do you deal with a kid that doesn't seem able to be redirected? how do you address/discipline/react to repeated aggressive behavior?

thank you

[LMPC]

Truthfully, if DD was that miserable, I would let her watch TV until she was feeling better...I know, I know...not what you wanted to hear. But laying around, watching TV is what I want to do when I am feeling miserable. I can only imagine that it might be comforting to the little folk as well.

HUGS...sick babies are no fun and try our patience! HUGS!

[Indianamom2]

Gosh, that just sounds so miserable for all of you.

My first thought was this: Is he taking any medicines for his illness? Some kids are SUPER sensitive to medications, so that might be adding to his issues.

Other than that, I don't know that I have any good suggestions. You are already working with something like EI for his behavior issues, right? If not...it's definitely time.

I will also say that my own kids (particularly my more challenging DD with sensory issues) get wilder than normal after they've been sick. It takes a while to get back into the swing of things if they've been especially ill. It's hard, but your situation sounds even more extreme.

I can't remember, have you consulted with a behavioral/developmental pedi?

:hug:

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but do you think your Ds could also be dealing with low blood sugar right now? My normally happy-go-lucky Ds was really sick with the stomach flu last week, to the point of lethargy mixed with extreme (for him) crankiness and it turns out his blood sugar was too low. Once he was eating better...he was back to normal again...so maybe that's at least part of the equation.

[minnie-zb]

Could it be PANDAS?

http://www.ocfoundation.org/uploadedFiles/MainContent/Find_Help/PANDAS%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

[gatorsmom]

Truthfully, if DD was that miserable, I would let her watch TV until she was feeling better...I know, I know...not what you wanted to hear. But laying around, watching TV is what I want to do when I am feeling miserable. I can only imagine that it might be comforting to the little folk as well.


:yeahthat: sick = tv time here. I think it's time to give in and let the kid watch tv. You aren't a bad mom if you make an exception this time. You are just a tired, frustrated mom. When he starts to feel better, you can reinforce the rules.

:hug: sick is no fun.

[Multimama]

In addition to letting him watch TV (that's what I do when I feel really sick!), I would also try to force food and liquid into him anyway you can if he's not eating. My DS can get like this when he's sick and tired and not eating. If he won't eat any of his favorite foods or drinks, have you tried popsicles? If DS is throwing things and I think it's probably related to low blood sugar or feeling sick I will sometimes try to hug him tight and talk to him quietly, telling him how much I love him, and get some food/liquid into him. I'm no expert at all, but that's just what we do. (I think the hugging and talking helps me stay calm too. :)) I kind of give up on discipline when they're sick. I'll also go for a new toy I think he'll just love. It helps him to stay focused and relax. I'm no expert, but your kiddo sounds exhausted, so I think anything to keep him calm and relaxed and get him to eat is the way to go, even if it's not something you would normally do like TV.

[pinkmomagain]

Like Christina mentioned, my first thoughts was meds. Is he on any cold or cough meds or steroids? My mom used to keep a list of cold meds and the reactions I'd have them (usually either jittery or very sleepy)...I was very sensitive to meds.

[lmh2402]

i've never heard of pandas, but he was cultured (rapid & overnight) and both were negative

yes, we're working with EI and we've got a behavior person through them. and she was saying last wed just how much better he was seeming to be doing. still a fair amount of perseverative behavior. but his anger/aggression/lashing out was much improved

hah. not so much.

blood sugar could play a role, but i can't get him to eat. i have stooped to offering him things he would normally eat fist over fist. like crackers. or graham crackers. offering him juice. even milk since he won't even much drink water.

he cries whenever i say it's time to eat.

i don't friggin get it. the doctor said it's a virus. a bad one. but "just a virus." there is nothing i can do for him other than try to help him rest and eat/drink to get better. but he is wildly resistant to both.

no, he's not on any meds so nothing to mess with his system.

thanks, guys. i'm scared to go down the tv route b/c look what he's doing after being allowed to watch some tv on sat/sun?

multimama - i've been trying all the hugging and quiet talking i can muster. he broke another pair of my glasses today while i was trying to comfort him during one of his escapades.

i really feel like a big failure. can't even formulate the right words to explain how not good the days have been going. and how absolutely out of my control it all feels. and to make matters worse, DH has been working until 11pm since mon. so see him for about 40 min in the morning. and DS has been HATING his guts since he got sick on sat. so even the 40 min in the morning, there is no relief. ds won't let dh touch him. dh is miserable. i am miserable. ds is miserable.

it's all frigging miserable.

[infomama]

Just wanted to send along a huge hug.

[ShanaMama]

Hugs! I agree with the pp- let him watch tv. You need to survive this, it's not the time to be setting or enforcing rules. It's much harder to get back to the rules afterwards, though. (I am trying to get my 2 yo back into her own crib after sleeping with me while she was sick....)
I also think medicine might be aggravating it. My DD is on amoxil & I see her behavior change immediately after she takes it. I'm sure it's all the sugar plus food coloring but possibly also the actual medicine.

ETA: We posted at the same time. Just want to send you hugs!

[Indianamom2]

I'm just going to throw this out there, but have you considered a second opinion on this illness?

I only ask because I have been in the position where my child was really, really sick and I *knew* he was not *just* sick with a virus...there was more to it. He was even diagnosed with asthma at that point, and I knew it wasn't asthma. I kept pressing and it turned out that he really was sick. Yes, he had *just* a virus, but it was affecting his oxygen intake and he wasn't getting enough. He ended up being admitted to the hospital because he needed the extra help getting through the really bad virus.

I mean, maybe it really is just a viral illness, but with little ones it can get more serious. I can hear the desperation in your posts and think it's worth double checking to see if there's more going on here.

Hang in there, mama. You are NOT a failure, you just have a challenging kiddo who is really sick. That combo is pure torture...and when you add in your Ds's young age, it's ten times harder. Those first 3-4 years of a challenging kids' life are so, so incredibly hard. It will get better.:grouphug:

[elliput]

i don't friggin get it. the doctor said it's a virus. a bad one. but "just a virus." there is nothing i can do for him other than try to help him rest and eat/drink to get better. but he is wildly resistant to both.
I can't tell from what you say here, but have you detailed these behaviors to the doctor?

Lots of hugs! It has got to be frustrating for both of you. Your DS knows he hurts and can't do anything about it, and it appears to me that he has figured out that you can make him feel better either.

[TwinFoxes]

Do you have a way of contacting his behavioral therapist? I'd be asking her for advice in your shoes. She might have some techniques that can help, since she's worked with him on his violent behavior in the past.

This may be a setback, but that doesn't mean all his progress will be undone. :hug:

Maybe more rest will help him? If he's not eating much, maybe playing and even puzzles are too much for him. It sounds like an awful virus, maybe he needs rejuvenation? I also agree with PP, try to get food into him. Those are the rules I toss out the window just to get my DDs to eat, they get what they want when sick. Good luck.

[crl]

In addition to all the other great advice pp have given.

Take away all the stuff that hurts when he throws it at you. Not as punishment, just to prevent him from hurting you. Put it away while he is asleep and leave it out of sight until he is feeling better.

How about stroller walks? Rest for him, exercise for you, fresh air and a change of scenery for both of you. Bonus: he can't hurt you while he is strapped into the stroller.

I'd definitely push the fluids as much as possible. Popsicles, jello, sorbet, whatever he will take.

I hope things get better soon!
Catherine

[deborah_r]

The fact that he is *so* resistant to eating makes me think of coxsackie virus (hand, foot & mouth). Not sure if it the right time of year for it, but both my boys have had it where the only place the doctor could see it was way in the back of their throats (didn't have the bumps on hands or feet). If not, still could be something in his throat that is hurting so he doesn't want to eat.

[bubbaray]

ITA with letting him watch TV in the short term.

FWIW, I think it might be time for a 2nd opinion. This sounds like more than "just" a virus.

[Multimama]

Wow. Big hugs to you. This sounds really, really hard.

If he's not drinking anything, is he dehydrated? I think dehydration in kids is not peeing at least every 7 hours. If he's really getting dehydrated IV fluids could be necessary. When I've been administered those it has been at a hospital, which would mean a second opinion as well. They can also get food into him through an IV.

I know it can make you nervous as a parent to give in to TV when you see how much they crave it, but I agree that maybe puzzles, playing outside, etc. are just too much for him in his exhausted state. I know he has a history of violent behavior that makes this more complicated, but combative behavior is a stress response so reducing the stressors will help. I've read that when we're watching TV the brain kind of looks the way it does when we're hypnotized, which is a bit creepy, but think of it as a kind of sedation that is at your disposal to help him get the relaxation he needs (and you need) to get through this until you and he can recover or you can get more help.

I thought the stroller suggestion was a good one too. My DS doesn't really like strollers, but when he's sick he'll happily sit in them and be pushed around. It could give you both a break.