AAP AND NHTSA (!!!) now recommends RF to age 2 and 3!!!

[Joolsplus2]

Here's the carseatblog (http://carseatblog.com/9404/goodbye-1-and-20-dont-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out-kids-safest-in-rear-facing-car-seats-until-age-2/)


http://www.nhtsa.gov/Driving+Safety/Child+Safety/4+Steps+for+Kids:+Forward-Facing+Seats (fixed link)
:boogie::yay::cheerleader1::yay::bighand::jammin:

[HIU8]

Julie, when it's available, can you post the official link? I want to post this on my FB page.

[Joolsplus2]

Absolutely, I'm so excited I'll post it all over the place!

[Joolsplus2]

And another article... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-us-med-carseats-chil,0,1725962.story

[WolfpackMom]

And another article... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-us-med-carseats-chil,0,1725962.story

Thanks so much! I already posted this on my FB page. :jammin:

[arivecchi]

Finally! :cheerleader1:

[KrisM]

Yay!
:cheerleader1:

[nicoleandjackson]

Thanks, Julie! I just linked the article from the Trib to my FB page. I'll wait to hear if I get any backlash... *sigh*

[HIU8]

Just posted this on facebook also. Let's see which of my FB friends tells me it's a lie to get us to buy more carseats.

[WolfpackMom]

Thanks, Julie! I just linked the article from the Trib to my FB page. I'll wait to hear if I get any backlash... *sigh*

So far I have gotten lots of positive responses from people with DS under 1 and a comment from one with a DC who is 18 months saying she will read and look into it because she had no idea. Don't fret, people may surprise you!

[babyonway]

Thank you for posting this is great news!

[amm40]

Yeay! It's on my FB too now :loveeyes:

[♥ms.pacman♥]

thanks for posting!! and as for the blog entry subject of "goodbye 1 and 20, don't let the door hit you on the way out"....LOL, LOVE IT!!! ::bighand: :love-retry: :rotflmao:

[twowhat?]

I'm confused - I thought the AAP already recommended that??

[Uno-Mom]

Just posted this on facebook also. Let's see which of my FB friends tells me it's a lie to get us to buy more carseats.

Seriously??
Well, tell them there's lots of parents like me who actually be LESS car seats thanks to these stats. We skipped the baby bucket entirely.

[KrisM]

I just saw a short story on the local news about this. They had a Graco Nautilus on the news desk :).

[SnuggleBuggles]

I shared it on FB and was surprised by the parent who chimed in with issues with it. She understands the recommendation but cited inconveniences caring for a rf'ing child and their discomfort. She did understand the safety of it and will follow the recommendation...she just doesn't like it.

I did note the upper recommendations as I think ds1 is the only one in his class still in a booster seat.

Beth

[Joolsplus2]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/2011/NHTSA+Releases+New+Child+Seat+Guidelines

There's NHTSA, AAP also recommended it, but the link the NHTSA guy sent me was broken!

[Joolsplus2]

I'm confused - I thought the AAP already recommended that??

There was an article in one of their related publications that recommended it, but it wasn't their official policy statement. They even changed the title of the article to prevent confusion (heaven forbid anyone get the wrong message, huh? bleh). Now they have the official policy statement out.... I'm still trying to find a working link, though.

[wendibird22]

:cheerleader1::cheerleader1::cheerleader1: :cheerleader1:

[Joolsplus2]

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/pages/Car-Safety-Seats-Information-for-Families.aspx

Working AAP Link.

Healthy Children > Safety & Prevention > On The Go > Car Safety Seats: Information for Families for 2011
Safety & Prevention-+
Car Safety Seats: Information for Families for 2011



Infants and toddlers—rear-facing
The AAP recommends that all infants should ride rear-facing starting with their first ride home from the hospital. All infants and toddlers should ride in a Rear-Facing Car Safety Seat until they are 2 years of age or until they reach the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.

Types of rear-facing car safety seats
There are 3 types of rear-facing car safety seats: infant-only seats, convertible seats, and 3-in-1 seats. When children reach the highest weight or length allowed by the manufacturer of their infant-only seat, they should continue to ride rear-facing in a convertible seat or 3-in-1 seat.

Types of Car Safety Seats at a Glance
Age Group Type Of Seat General Guidelines
Infants/Toddlers Infant seats and rear-facing convertible seats All infants and toddlers should ride in a Rear-Facing Car Safety Seat until they are 2 years of age or until they reach the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.
Toddlers/Preschoolers
Convertible seats and forward-facing seats
with harnesses All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.
School-aged children Booster seats All children whose weight or height is above the forward-facing limit for their car safety seat should use a Belt-Positioning Booster Seat until the vehicle seat belt fits properly, typically when they have reached 4 feet 9 inches in height and are between 8 and 12 years of age.

Older children Seat belts
When children are old enough and large enough to use the vehicle seat belt alone, they should always use Lap and Shoulder Seat Belts for optimal protection.

All children younger than 13 years should be restrained in the Rear Seats of vehicles for optimal protection.

[wellyes]

Know what's awesome? My MIL called to tell me about this because she saw it on the news. It is getting noticed.

Will it work? Probably as well as the aap recommendation of no tv til age 2. (In other words, not very well). But still, god news and I am glad word is getting out.

[Joolsplus2]

Know what's awesome? My MIL called to tell me about this because she saw it on the news. It is getting noticed.

Will it work? Probably as well as the aap recommendation of no tv til age 2. (In other words, not very well). But still, god news and I am glad word is getting out.

No kidding, right? My expectations are that it will merely set the bar a little higher...right now, people turn their kids 'close enough' to 1 and 20, so there are plenty of 18 pound 10 month olds FF, but if they are 'close enough' to 2, that might mean kids get to RF to older than 1 (maybe not much older, but I'm still happy). (I think of it like the breastfeeding recs, lol... 6 months exclusively is ideal, but even one day is better than nothing :))

[mommylamb]

On my FB too!

[mommylamb]

Will it work? Probably as well as the aap recommendation of no tv til age 2. (In other words, not very well). But still, god news and I am glad word is getting out.

Obviously, being a BBB mom, I was well familiar with the rear-facing issue, but if I weren't informed already, I think this recommendation from the AAP would give me pause as a parent in a way that a no TV recommendation wouldn't. So, here's hoping it does have an impact.

[babychi]

Very happy to see this on the Today show this morning! :jammin:

[elliput]

:yay: I've seen this all over the news this morning.

[OKKiddo]

Yep, on our news station here in Kansas City area too!

http://www.kmbc.com/health/27258674/detail.html

[TwoBees]

Thank goodness. Now if only I could find a way to anonymously slip this information to my friends and coworkers who turned their kids the moment they turned 1...

[swissair81]

Kind of confused about the AAP recommendations being called 'new'. My pediatrician told me 2.5 years ago, when my son was born that the new recommendations were to rearface until 2 years old.

[bubbaray]

They had a Graco Nautilus on the news desk :).


I think this is super funny! I totally get that the AAP is saying keep them in each type of restraint to the max, but still, the point that the media is focusing on is the RFg aspect and the GN is a FFg only seat. ;)

[Joolsplus2]

Kind of confused about the AAP recommendations being called 'new'. My pediatrician told me 2.5 years ago, when my son was born that the new recommendations were to rearface until 2 years old.

It was an article in their AAP newsletter, not an official policy. So the news has been getting out there for all this time, but it wasn't set in stone, so to speak.

[wellyes]

Toddlers/Preschoolers
Convertible seats and forward-facing seatswith harnesses
All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.

Wait, it sounds like they are recommending FF for any child at 2 years? I know my pediatrician is pushing me to turn DD to face forward and this seems to support that.

[Multimama]

Wait, it sounds like they are recommending FF for any child at 2 years? I know my pediatrician is pushing me to turn DD to face forward and this seems to support that.

That is such unfortunate wording. I hate that I'll have to point to the AAP regarding extended rear-facing for others, but then ignore them for my own child who is over age 2.

Jools, the NHTSA link you posted isn't working.

[Joolsplus2]

Yeah, they should have left the old wording about staying RF till the seat is outgrown by height/weight :(. I'm not sure if the 'should' means they should go FF (bad) or should stay harnessed (good, it's meant to keep kids harnessed, rather than boostered). Just print up the NHTSA policy about RF to 3, lol. (thanks, mm, I fixed the link)

[Kendra]

So glad this is finally AAP policy - or at least that they've abandoned the 1 year & 20 pound "minimum". I can't believe how many times I've had to justify why I rearface my children (Katie to 2-1/2, only because we had to put her on the driver's side, and Amanda still rfing, will be 3 in May, both in the Roundabout).

I'm looking for a link, someone posted a while ago, maybe you Julie, with pictures of different kids happily rearfacing in buckets and convertibles at older ages. And I'm pretty sure it was one of Julie's links that showed her son in a back booster with the side head wings, maybe age 12 or so? I'd love to post that one on my fb as well!

Anyone with these links, I'd really appreciate it!


Thanks,
Kendra

[mackmama]

So happy about this - and excited to show it to DH who likes "official" info. :)

[KrisM]

I think this is super funny! I totally get that the AAP is saying keep them in each type of restraint to the max, but still, the point that the media is focusing on is the RFg aspect and the GN is a FFg only seat. ;)

No kidding!

I will say that they added that kids should not be in boosters until age 4 and will need to stay there until they are 57" tall, which is typically between 8 and 12 years old. I was floored that they even said anything about a 12 year old maybe needing a booster!

Now, if I could convince my brother to move his 9 year old who is maybe 52" tall back into a booster. Law is only 8 years, so he's been out for a while now. He just scoots down so his knees bend right.

[randomkid]

:cheerleader1: :bighand: :yay: :D :boogie: :bouncy:
I'm so happy this has finally come about! I would love to thumb my nose at all those Moms in preschool who made fun of me or looked at me like I was a loon when they would see DD still RFing at 3 and 4 years old! We were going to have a speaker from a local children's hospital come to talk about car seat safety one time. The mom setting it up worked at the hospital and does child safety education. I mentioned to her that I thought we should talk about extended RFing and she gave me the dirtiest look, like she was a know-it-all and told me kids should turn FF at a year/20 pounds. I just let it go. I'm dancing in my seat right now and hoping she remembers that encounter! Now, SHE will have to change her teaching methods! At the time, I was so surprised that she did not support extended RF. OOoohhh, I want to e-mail her soooo badly!

I hope my cousin's 22yo daughter, who turned her now 3yo FF at 9 months(!), will see this for her current baby!

Thanks BBB for putting me on the cutting edge and ahead of the "official" recommendations. I've told people for a couple of years now that they were going to change it to 2yo, but I don't think they believed me. I will be copying that rec and taking it into work for all the new Moms there :thumbsup:

[Joolsplus2]

So glad this is finally AAP policy - or at least that they've abandoned the 1 year & 20 pound "minimum". I can't believe how many times I've had to justify why I rearface my children (Katie to 2-1/2, only because we had to put her on the driver's side, and Amanda still rfing, will be 3 in May, both in the Roundabout).

I'm looking for a link, someone posted a while ago, maybe you Julie, with pictures of different kids happily rearfacing in buckets and convertibles at older ages. And I'm pretty sure it was one of Julie's links that showed her son in a back booster with the side head wings, maybe age 12 or so? I'd love to post that one on my fb as well!

Anyone with these links, I'd really appreciate it!


Thanks,
Kendra

Here's my boy... http://carseatblog.com/5671/too-old-for-a-booster-says-who/ and here's the link to the cpsafety.com webpage with the RF kids http://cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx

[Kendra]

Thanks so much Julie! Love it!

[todzwife]

I just read this!! Makes me SO happy! I wonder how long it will be until doctors start getting the information out to people though. I JUST spoke w/ my ped about 2 weeks ago and he said it was still 1 year. I can't wait to tell him!

[PAfirsttimemom]

Segment on the Today Show this morning:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3041445/ns/today-parenting#42190931

[crl]

Yay!!!!:cheerleader1:

Catherine

[Melaine]

Great news....and I'm like several of ya'll....hoping certain people remember the conversations we've had when they seemed to think I was nuts....

HA HA! Yay for being right!

Oh, and Yay for better safety guidelines.:rotflmao:

[AnnieW625]

I posted this on my Facebook last night, and on my Yahoo Mommy Group. I am very happy about this!:)

DD2 is still happily rearfacing and will be now for quite some time:)

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Obviously, being a BBB mom, I was well familiar with the rear-facing issue, but if I weren't informed already, I think this recommendation from the AAP would give me pause as a parent in a way that a no TV recommendation wouldn't. So, here's hoping it does have an impact.

:yeahthat:

i was always well-aware that AAP recommends no TV before age 2, though i started letting my DS watch TV much earlier than that. i think this car seat recommendation will (hopefully) have a bigger impact because much more is at stake here IMO (it's potentially a life-or-death thing). me letting my DS watch some TV can't potentially kill him or cause paralysis, so that's why i was more lax about it even though i knew very well about all the expert recommendations (and i'm sure other parents think similarly too). with carseats though, when i saw videos showing child crash-test dummies and heard talk about possible "internal decapitation" and statistical facts showing how RFing can save your child's life, that definitely made me pay attention. hopefully now that this new recommendation made news more people will become more aware. i really do think that most parents are just not aware about how RFing is so much safer, especially given how so many peds and other supposed "experts" are ignorant on the subject

[erv917]

NY Times has an article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/health/policy/22carseat.html?_r=1&hp

[niccig]

Great news....and I'm like several of ya'll....hoping certain people remember the conversations we've had when they seemed to think I was nuts....

HA HA! Yay for being right!

Oh, and Yay for better safety guidelines.:rotflmao:

:yeahthat: I really hope my ILs have seen this - probably will if it's all over the news. DS is 6 and refaced until he was 3 - they all thought I was nuts. He's 6yo now and will stay in a booster until 4'9" which will be a LONG time as he's short.

I hope some of the parents at school have seen the 4'9" - as soon as they turn 6, they're out of a booster seat. I've picked kids up for carpool and they don't want to sit in DS's booster, while he rides in the harnessed seat. They tell me they don't have to as 6 years old. I told them my seatbelts won't fit them, and there's no room in the trunk for the booster, so they have to ride in it...they do.

[essnce629]

I really like the TIME article since it talks about staying in a booster till age 8 as well.

Right away it says:
"Babies should remain rear-facing until age 2, and their older siblings should use a booster seat until they're at least 8."

Last year in first grade, when DS1 was 6, not a single kid was in a booster. CA law is 6 years OR 60lbs.


The new rear-facing recommendation was on my local news this morning as well! Yay! Hopefully this will get the peds and BRU employees on board as well.

[lizzywednesday]

I just got this link to a video from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (I didn't check upthread, so if this is a repeat, I apologize):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q83B_mCL9U

They also have a resource guide at CHOP's site, including info about CPST appointments:

http://www.chop.edu/carseat

[arivecchi]

I am sooooo sad that this new rec proves some of my relatives wrong as well. :crying:

[maestramommy]

Wow! I see that they say, "keep your 1-3yo rearfacing until etc." 3yo! That's pretty radical considering what the guidelines were before!:cheerleader1:

[Kendra]

here's the link to the cpsafety.com webpage with the RF kids http://cpsafety.com/articles/RFAlbum.aspx

Yeah, that was the one I remembered! It was a diff pic of your son that I'd seen but that newer one is even better! Thanks again!

[WolfpackMom]

Yay! My fb post of this info and subsequent email after a friend requested more info has my friend turning her 18 month old back around to rear facing. She was shocked and "had no idea" about the risks.

[TxCat]

Since I've gotten most of my parenting education on this BB, I'm amazed to hear that most of you have experienced some sort of backlash about keeping your kids RFing well into toddler-hood. I had naively assumed that was the norm, even before the recs came out today.

[newg]

just posted to my FB page!!

[blue]

Woohooo :boogie:! Hope the new recommendations get the word out to help keep more kids safe!

[Joolsplus2]

Yeah, that was the one I remembered! It was a diff pic of your son that I'd seen but that newer one is even better! Thanks again!

Oh, maybe this one, on the CPSafety page? http://cpsafety.com/articles/BoosterAlbum/Karsten.aspx
(we looooove tie dye, really miss that seat...).
He was about 9.5 back then.

[Joolsplus2]

Since I've gotten most of my parenting education on this BB, I'm amazed to hear that most of you have experienced some sort of backlash about keeping your kids RFing well into toddler-hood. I had naively assumed that was the norm, even before the recs came out today.

BB is a magical hidden land, sometimes I don't want to leave :ROTFLMAO:

[calv]

i am livid on someone who posted a reply to the longer RF law! this is what she said:


I think this is ridiculous...bc I think every child is different, and we've gone by 1yr for so long now, they just do these stupid studies to pacify overly paranoid parents, and its just craziness. XYZ faced forward at 9 mo, ABC didnt until after her 1 yr dr ap...pt, but w was over the weight and height limits and hated looking at the back of the car. his legs were all crunched up and the second he faced forward he was fine. I think as long as you have them in the appropriate car seat, they will be fine, though I dont plan on having anymore kids, if I did, I would use my motherly instincts to decide when I felt necessary to turn them around, but i def wouldnt wait till 2, w is 21mo, but is the size of a 3 yr old, m and w are still in the harnass seats, some ppl think im silly for m to still be in one, but i feel safe with her like that, maybe come " K" I'll feel different. so I just think that moms know best and cleary yes we need some guidlines and advice, but this one is ridiculous... lol, this stuff gets me heated and I ramble


yes I'm fuming!!!

[arivecchi]

i am livid on someone who posted a reply to the longer RF law! this is what she said:


I think this is ridiculous...bc I think every child is different, and we've gone by 1yr for so long now, they just do these stupid studies to pacify overly paranoid parents, and its just craziness. XYZ faced forward at 9 mo, ABC didnt until after her 1 yr dr ap...pt, but w was over the weight and height limits and hated looking at the back of the car. his legs were all crunched up and the second he faced forward he was fine. I think as long as you have them in the appropriate car seat, they will be fine, though I dont plan on having anymore kids, if I did, I would use my motherly instincts to decide when I felt necessary to turn them around, but i def wouldnt wait till 2, w is 21mo, but is the size of a 3 yr old, m and w are still in the harnass seats, some ppl think im silly for m to still be in one, but i feel safe with her like that, maybe come " K" I'll feel different. so I just think that moms know best and cleary yes we need some guidlines and advice, but this one is ridiculous... lol, this stuff gets me heated and I ramble


yes I'm fuming!!!That's easy. Post the you tube videos of dummies rear facing and forward facing in a crash. I don't care how "resistant to knowledge" (to put it kindly) anyone is, but physics are physics and the videos make that very clear.

[scriptkitten]

All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer

Jools, can you comment on this wording? Are they trying to say that ERF past age 2 is not recommended?

[calv]

Any good links to the videos? Also how do I prove to DH that the 5pt seats (we have a regent & 2 huskys) is better than a backless booster?

[wellyes]

In context it does also say:


Age Group Type Of Seat General Guidelines
Infants/Toddlers Infant seats and rear-facing convertible seats All infants and toddlers should ride in a Rear-Facing Car Safety Seat until they are 2 years of age or until they reach the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.
Toddlers/Preschoolers
Convertible seats and forward-facing seats
with harnesses All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed by their car safety seat’s manufacturer.So, 2+ year olds are encouraged to RF as long as the seat allows. But the remainder's wording is confusing, even contradictory.

Regarding resistance to this updated recommendation... it's making some parents who have already turned around their younger-than-2-year-olds feel defensive, and I think that's understandable. They followed what they thought was good advice and are now being told it wasn't good advice (or that's how it might feel).

[arivecchi]

Any good links to the videos? Also how do I prove to DH that the 5pt seats (we have a regent & 2 huskys) is better than a backless booster?


http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/

[lizzywednesday]

...

Regarding resistance to this updated recommendation... it's making some parents who have already turned around their younger-than-2-year-olds feel defensive, and I think that's understandable. They followed what they thought was good advice and are now being told it wasn't good advice (or that's how it might feel).

I have a friend with whom I've agreed to disagree about rear-facing. He's confident his kid (3 mos older than my DD) will be fine with just the 5-pt harness and, once he gets like this, there's no arguing with him. (Besides, he's a lawyer and I have no desire to get into it with a lawyer.)

However, we both agree that a restrained child is safer in a crash than an unrestrained child, so at least he's not talking about graduating his kid out of her seat before she outgrows it.

The sad thing is ... they have a Marathon. I don't know why you'd go out and buy a seat with such a high RF limit and still FF at 1 yr/20 lbs, but whatever. I just hope his LO is never in a crash where this will be an issue. (I hope the same for my sister and my nephew.)

My DH won't even discuss it with me, so I've done the research and made the calls on what to do. So ... I put 2 Marathon-70's on DD's Amazon WishList - one for each car.

[jgenie]

NY Times has an article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/health/policy/22carseat.html?_r=1&hp

Thanks for sharing!!!

[blue]

Regarding resistance to this updated recommendation... it's making some parents who have already turned around their younger-than-2-year-olds feel defensive, and I think that's understandable. They followed what they thought was good advice and are now being told it wasn't good advice (or that's how it might feel).

I can understand some parents being initially defensive about the new recommendations. It can be difficult to here that what you choose to do for your child based on current advice at the time is now not recommended or even considered unsafe . Hopefully, once the initial surprise wears off the parents will take the time to look at the information provided for the new recs and the safety reasons behind it (AND hopefully decide to follow it).

[YouAreTheFocus]

Wow, this is awesome, thanks for sharing all the links and info! I posted one of the Chicago Trib articles to my FB, it had really good coverage of the new guidelines--and even mentioned that RF til 4 is the norm in Sweden!

I've really wanted to post something about ERF before, psyched that this update gave me an excuse to put it up there!! Hoping my friends & fam take note and change their practices...or at least stop thinking we're nuts to keep RF!

[AbbysMom]

Yay! I just went on FB and my pediatricians office had posted this:

"Booster knowledge! Today, the American Academy of Pediatrics officially supported new recommendations for car seats and booster seats. Infants and toddlers should be in a rear-facing car seat until age two or until they outgrow the height and weight requirements for that seat. Children should be in a lap-adjusting booster seat until they reach 57 inches in height."

Oh my gosh just read the 5 comments on FB and people are CRAZY!

[SnuggleBuggles]

I was pleased that someone had left their newspaper behind at the coffee shop, flipped open to the page discussing the new careseat recommendation. Hopefully people all day long will sit at that table and read it, like I did.

Beth

[KDsMommy]

this is such great news that they finally made an "official" statement!!! :bouncy:

[twowhat?]

I would love to post this on FB but am afraid of offending the couple of friends I have that I've talked to about keeping their child RF longer, who turned their toddlers FF anyway.

The NYT article is a good one though I wish they'd added a couple of sentences about how RF kids may actually be more comfortable because they have someplace to prop their legs (as opposed to legs just dangling). And maybe a quote from a 3yo wanting to continue riding RF because she wants someplace to put her kegs:) Of the friends I have that have turned their kids before age 2, the legs have been the main reason.

[Kendra]

Oh, maybe this one

No, but that seat did look familiar, so I was able to search (with your son's name to help) and found the thread. See, it was a WHILE ago! I remembered the comment about him resting his head on the wings:

http://www.windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=334584&highlight=karsten

[KDsMommy]

Is there a link with a one-pager that I could post on the bulletin board at pre-school? I printed the AAP article and it's 10 pages.

[jbbhb]

Posted it on fb about 10 minutes ago and already got 2 likes and a repost from someone who I know already turned her 15 month old. Hopefully this changed her mind :)

[essnce629]

The sad thing is ... they have a Marathon. I don't know why you'd go out and buy a seat with such a high RF limit and still FF at 1 yr/20 lbs, but whatever.

I did an entire carseat presentation for my playgroup before our babies turned one and talked about a lot of the other great seats out there besides the Britax seats (like the TFP I had on display). Still, they ALL ended up buying Britax seats because they are "the best" and "the safest." Luckily, after my presentation they all pretty much said they would keep their kids rear-facing for a long time. So far I've only seen one mom who was at my presentation turn their child forward-facing :(. And yes, he's in a Britax seat! Oh well.

[HIU8]

OMG, my local mommy board is arguing the stupidity of this. They are arguing that it's not new and that they would turn their 1 yr old anyway so they can reach them better. I posted it on my FB account and NO ONE has made any comment good or bad (and I have friends with infants and toddlers).

[Roni]

I shared it on FB and was surprised by the parent who chimed in with issues with it. She understands the recommendation but cited inconveniences caring for a rf'ing child and their discomfort. She did understand the safety of it and will follow the recommendation...she just doesn't like it.

I did note the upper recommendations as I think ds1 is the only one in his class still in a booster seat.

Beth

Oh my head! My dd1 will be 11 soon--she's still in one.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

hm, i'm debating on whether to post the NYT article (which i think is a great article) on Facebook. DH thinks i should. though i don't want to offend anyone bc i know there's a handful of ppl on FB who i've told about this whole RF'ing is safer thing and who promptly ignored it (e.g. posted pics of their 1yo FFing).

someone mentioned about parents getting defensive over this because they feel bad that they already turned their kid around at 1yo, and it makes them feel bad about their decision. i guess that is understandable to some extent. however, i think that at some point your own child's safety should come before any personal guilt or bad feelings over past parenting decisions and hopefully ppl will eventually see that despite being inconvenient (e.g. have to buy another seat) or feeling bad about not doing the right thing in the first place, what's most important is the kid's safety and so you should just do whatever needs to be done.

i know initially i used to feel kinda bad when i saw threads here about carseat overuse (outside of cars, like in a SnapNGo, or as an infant carrier) because with DS we just used the SNG all the time, and it didn't seem like a big deal. but then DD was born, was a preemie (5 wks early) and in the hospital she had to do the carseat test. well after only 45 mins she slumped over so much it restricted her breathing and her oxygen levels got really low, setting off alarms etc. only after seeing that, DH & I vowed that with DD we would never use the carseat outside of the car ever again and were so thankful that hospital had this test, otherwise we wouldn't have really known the extent of how being in a carseat can restrict air flow etc.

[arivecchi]

Ms. Pacman, I totally agreee with you! Your kid's safety has to come before your ego.

I turned DS1 around at age 1. I did not know any better back then. I know better now and fully admit I was WRONG.

Why is this so hard for people?

[lizzywednesday]

I would love to post this on FB but am afraid of offending the couple of friends I have that I've talked to about keeping their child RF longer, who turned their toddlers FF anyway....

I knew it would get under my friend's skin and it'll likely needle my sister, but I truly hope that it'll make my brother & SIL think long and hard about their next seat for their DS!

Honestly, I posted it anyway ... and know my friend who disagrees respects my position even if he's not going to turn his DD back. I had the impression that he's more worried about leaving/forgetting the baby in the car than crash statistics.

[lizzywednesday]

...
i know initially i used to feel kinda bad when i saw threads here about carseat overuse (outside of cars, like in a SnapNGo, or as an infant carrier) because with DS we just used the SNG all the time, and it didn't seem like a big deal. but then DD was born, was a preemie (5 wks early) and in the hospital she had to do the carseat test. well after only 45 mins she slumped over so much it restricted her breathing and her oxygen levels got really low, setting off alarms etc. only after seeing that, DH & I vowed that with DD we would never use the carseat outside of the car ever again and were so thankful that hospital had this test, otherwise we wouldn't have really known the extent of how being in a carseat can restrict air flow etc.

We went through that with our DD as a condition of her discharge, too.

Thankfully, she passed, but there was another LO in the step-down unit next to DD whose alarms were going off like mad during the test. Scary. (Ms. P, I hope Isabel is doing better today, though.)

Made me very reluctant to use the bucket as a carrier (so did my C-section instructions, though - the KF30 is almost 10lbs) and made me feel super anxious that it was the only place DD would sleep during her 1st week home.

[twowhat?]

Yay, one of my FB friends posted a link and I "liked" it. Is that passive-aggressive? :)

[jbbhb]

So one of my "friends" (dh coworkers wife) just commented, "but life is so much easier when they can forward face". Anyone have a response that is not completely condescending and snarky because everything I am thinking of falls into those categories.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

[mommylamb]

A friend of mine shared the link I posted on her FB page and one of her friends wrote in all annoyed with it saying that her kids have long torsos and she can't afford the more expensive seats that kids with longer torsos need. This makes no sense to me at all since you're using the same seat, whether you rear or forward face your kid. I understand that kids can stay in a seat longer when FF if that seat allows for taller kids, but if you're talking about RF or FF (as in the kid is below the rear facing weight limits) it doesn't matter at all. Am I missing something? I didn't comment because I didn't want to pick a fight with someone I don't know.

[MWmom]

Good news I did get a legit question in response to the post - what to do about kids w/long legs & comfort. I'm thinking the response is just that the kids fold thier legs & not to worry.

Not so good - lots of complaints and why it is hard. So I'm looking for help w/responses too. I'm glad there is a discussion starting about the topic. It would be great if I can respond w/o sounding starky or judgemental.
Here are two complaints:
- w/more than 1 child you can't get the seats positioned properly. claims to do rf right it must be in the middle & the other seat won't be right. ---> maybe it depends on the car & carseats you have.
- the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving ----> I don't think there is a response for this one.


I was thinking of just responding in general. Something to includeglad there is a discussion, glad people are thinking, you do what is best for your family & situation. ::shrug: not sure how else to answer

[KrisM]

A friend of mine shared the link I posted on her FB page and one of her friends wrote in all annoyed with it saying that her kids have long torsos and she can't afford the more expensive seats that kids with longer torsos need. This makes no sense to me at all since you're using the same seat, whether you rear or forward face your kid. I understand that kids can stay in a seat longer when FF if that seat allows for taller kids, but if you're talking about RF or FF (as in the kid is below the rear facing weight limits) it doesn't matter at all. Am I missing something? I didn't comment because I didn't want to pick a fight with someone I don't know.

Maybe they're going from a large infant seat directly to a Nautilus or something and skipping a convertible?

[wellyes]

Maybe they're going from a large infant seat directly to a Nautilus or something and skipping a convertible?

What's dumb is that there are a number of convertibles that, like the Nautilus, convert to a booster - but ALSO can be used RF to 35+ lbs. There are seats you can use from birth to 100 lbs. I do not get the big deal about the Nautilus.

[bubbaray]

What's dumb is that there are a number of convertibles that, like the Nautilus, convert to a booster - but ALSO can be used RF to 35+ lbs. There are seats you can use from birth to 100 lbs. I do not get the big deal about the Nautilus.


Are you referring to 3-in-1 seats? The reason techs don't rave about them is that they don't have particularly high harness slots for FFg and they make less-than-stellar boosters. They don't do anything particularly well, KWIM?

While the Nautilus isn't my favorite combination seat (FFg to booster), it is a far cry better at both FFg harness height and booster fit than the 3-in-1s.

The big deal about the GN is that it was one of the more reasonably priced seats with a high top harness slot height. The Maestro give it a run for the money now, though.

[rgors]

What's dumb is that there are a number of convertibles that, like the Nautilus, convert to a booster - but ALSO can be used RF to 35+ lbs. There are seats you can use from birth to 100 lbs. I do not get the big deal about the Nautilus.

Which seats can RF, FF, and then convert to booster? I could really invest in one of those. :)

[bubbaray]

-

w/more than 1 child you can't get the seats positioned properly. claims to do rf right it must be in the middle & the other seat won't be right



No, a RFg seat does not need to be in the middle. If you have more than 1 car seat, the least safe child (either in a no seat, booster seat or FFg seat) should be in the most safe position (middle).



-

the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving



My DD#2 RF'd to the limits of her seat and did not scream about it. Some kids just scream in the car, regardless of which directly they are facing.

[bubbaray]

I was shocked that this media piece made it in the news on all the networks up here.

[edurnemk]

I was so happy to see this. DS is RF in his Blvd, we were in a car accident a year ago, and we were all injured EXCEPT DS. And still, my IL's (who arrived at the scene of the accident and saw both cars and all) have yet again started asking "so, how long do you plan to keep him like that? He's so uncomfortable, his legs don't fit in there anymore". I just say: until he reaches the RF limit of the seat, and then change the subject. But you bet I'm forwarding this to them (specifically the NHTSA one)! :cheerleader1:

And of course I posted in on FB this morning, and so far no comments, people tend to ignore all my car seat posts (except my BFF who doesn't even have kids but freaks out about her nephews being in boosters so young).

[jent]

When I logged on tonight I was all excited to link to the new recs... then saw y'all had beat me to that by a day.

And thanks for all links... particularly loving the carseat.org blog. Well written.

But, the HUGE surprise was that when I posted the NYT article on my FB page, and a few friends chimed in with "I totally disagree" or "my kid is just too tall for this". I wrote a long response to that and hope I didn't come off too preachy/pushy. Not that I really care-- more important to me to get the right info out there.

[wellyes]

Which seats can RF, FF, and then convert to booster? I could really invest in one of those. :)

I was thinking of the Evenflo Symphony, recommended by carseatblog: http://carseatblog.com/365/evenflo-symphony-review/

[bubbaray]

I was thinking of the Evenflo Symphony, recommended by carseatblog: http://carseatblog.com/365/evenflo-symphony-review/


It only FFs to 40lbs IIRC, which is a pretty low weight.

[scriptkitten]

- the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving ----> I don't think there is a response for this one.


its a phase. no kids screamed more than mine until they got the point that we weren't going to cater to backseat nonsense.

you have to just tune it out.

[golightly1118]

I am so glad this came out! DD just turned one, doesn't yet weight 20 pounds, and I've had people ask me when I was going to turn her around! My answer has always been "When the seat limits are met"-I've gotten more than one hairy eyeball over that one.

[kijip]

- the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving ----> I don't think there is a response for this one.



Possible responses: Kids go through a scream when getting into the seat phase regardless of if it is FF or RF. Older toddlers who are used to RF are generally just as happy about the carseat as FF toddlers. And for some kids, that is not very happy but better safe than happy. Give the child a soft toy or something to play with in the car.

[rgors]

Indeed. The review on carseatblog however now leads with a mention of the newer Symphony 65 which does FF to 65 pounds... very intriguing.

[kijip]

What's dumb is that there are a number of convertibles that, like the Nautilus, convert to a booster - but ALSO can be used RF to 35+ lbs. There are seats you can use from birth to 100 lbs. I do not get the big deal about the Nautilus.

The main reason the Nautilus got so popular is that it was the first lower priced seat that allowed for extended FF harnessing. At the time it came out, all of the 3 in 1 seats had 40 pound FF limits and lowish harness slots. Even now, there are not many and like Melissa says, many of them really suck (like the Eddie Bauer/Safety First one. Ugh!) And as a volunteer tech, it was nice to have a seat to point to that cost closer to $125-150 than $250 for keeping 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 year olds in a harness. $250 seems like a lot more than $125 for many families. We bought a Nautilus for my dad's car, our first non-Britax purchase since the infant seat stage, and it is a pretty nice seat, I would buy it again.

[MWmom]

scriptkitten & kijip just a quick thank you for the options. I'll try to word some response soon. Maybe an option is to just discuss it in person. That would may help. I know sometimes what is written vs how it is read are not the same thing IYKWIM. I do not want to start an argument just spread some information... Still surprised that peope jumped on the post to whine. whatever.

[rgors]

- w/more than 1 child you can't get the seats positioned properly. claims to do rf right it must be in the middle & the other seat won't be right. ---> maybe it depends on the car & carseats you have.

I think in some cars, it IS hard to do a RFing install except in the middle seat. True, RF is not technically required to be in the middle, but the reality for small cars with tall drivers is that middle seat is the only realistic option.



- the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving ----

Regarding the other responses to this point in the thread, I really hesitate to tell another parent that their child WILL stop screaming eventually if left RF, and not turned FF. I have a wonderful, well-educated, maternally-intuitive safety-concerned friend -- she is a great mom in my book -- who sadly turned her kid FF soon after 1, because the kid screamed RF and was too distracting to the driver. I have no doubt that my friend knew her daughter best, and made the safest decision for her family at the time. She was always taking one hand off the wheel and twisting, to reach back and comfort the RF kid. Very unsafe.

I think some of the things that can be off-putting, when it comes to carseat-safety, is that advocates and experts either readily dismiss a parent's realistic usability concerns, or at least do not validate that it is a true issue for a parent. Thus the questioning parent feels defensive, the safety advocates' credibility for understanding the real world is diminished, and eventually the avenues of communication get shut down.

[Melaine]

Good news I did get a legit question in response to the post - what to do about kids w/long legs & comfort. I'm thinking the response is just that the kids fold thier legs & not to worry.

Not so good - lots of complaints and why it is hard. So I'm looking for help w/responses too. I'm glad there is a discussion starting about the topic. It would be great if I can respond w/o sounding starky or judgemental.
Here are two complaints:
- w/more than 1 child you can't get the seats positioned properly. claims to do rf right it must be in the middle & the other seat won't be right. ---> maybe it depends on the car & carseats you have.
- the kids scream all the time. FF is better than distraction while driving ----> I don't think there is a response for this one.


I was thinking of just responding in general. Something to includeglad there is a discussion, glad people are thinking, you do what is best for your family & situation. ::shrug: not sure how else to answer

I will say that we could not RF both of our marathons in my husband's Saturn. He pushes his seat back so far to drive that they wouldn't both fit RF. So in a few cases that might actually be a concern. We just decided to let them ride in the van all the time until they were forward facing, but if that was our only car I can see it being a huge problem.

[wellyes]

It does take some research to figure out which seats work in which vehicles.... the True Fits are perfect for smaller cars since they have a headrest that you remove until you turn the car FF.
[/B][/B]

[wellyes]

I think some of the things that can be off-putting, when it comes to carseat-safety, is that advocates and experts either readily dismiss a parent's realistic usability concerns, or at least do not validate that it is a true issue for a parent. Thus the questioning parent feels defensive, the safety advocates' credibility for understanding the real world is diminished, and eventually the avenues of communication get shut down.
This is a good point. I'd hate to see car seat safety become a mommy war issue. Zealotry cab be a great positive force but it can also be marginalizing - like the perception that pro-bf groups wrongfully shame moms who formula feed.

[o_mom]

It does take some research to figure out which seats work in which vehicles.... the True Fits are perfect for smaller cars since they have a headrest that you remove until you turn the car FF.
[/B][/B]

The headrest on the TrueFit actually has to be put back on at I think 22 lbs and certainly if the child reaches top of the seat without the headrest. However, it does allow a newborn recline in almost any car without the headrest and usually by the time they need a headrest, they can be more upright.

I have put many seats in many cars. Almost always, if an infant seat will fit, a larger convertible will fit rear-facing even in small cars. Sometimes it is parents not knowing that they can have the seat more upright for an older baby or toddler. Sometimes it is pointing out that if they move the front seat more upright a notch, they can still have it pushed all the way back for legroom.

[Melaine]

The headrest on the TrueFit actually has to be put back on at I think 22 lbs and certainly if the child reaches top of the seat without the headrest. However, it does allow a newborn recline in almost any car without the headrest and usually by the time they need a headrest, they can be more upright.

I have put many seats in many cars. Almost always, if an infant seat will fit, a larger convertible will fit rear-facing even in small cars. Sometimes it is parents not knowing that they can have the seat more upright for an older baby or toddler. Sometimes it is pointing out that if they move the front seat more upright a notch, they can still have it pushed all the way back for legroom.

We couldn't get our infant seats in our Saturn either. It's definitely because DH puts his seat back so far, but he is 6'4". We certainly would have figured something out if that was our only option, but we just stuck with the van.

[mommylamb]

Ok, just checked my friend's thread again (the one who shared the same article I shared) and she had a bunch of people write in about how terrible the new AAP recommendation is. And one of them linked this http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/levitt_carseats_farsdata.pdf

Please help me refute. This is nuts.

[twowhat?]

I agree with PP that with 2 or more car seats, depending on the car you have it may be nearly impossible. I spent hours figuring out how to fit 2 RF convertibles in our Forester but we still have to move the driver's seat up farther than preferred even though neither of us is particularly tall (though it's still considered a safe enough distance away from the airbag). Thank goodness that's our secondary car. But for some of families, they only have one small car and may have more than 1 child under age 2.

People need to remember that these are recommendations. They aren't law (yet - right?? Correct me if I'm wrong.). Try your best to figure out how to keep your kids RF until at least age 2. If you just can't - then you just can't! And if you don't want to, then don't!! I don't get why people have to post angry comments about the new recommendations, which are based on statistical data. If a parent wants to turn their 1 yo FF, they do not need to go and bash the recommendations. Just feel comfortable with your own parenting decision. The whole point of the new recommendations is to increase awareness and up the number of parents who decide to keep their toddlers RF for longer due to the safety data.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I can't (in my head) scoff at those parents who don't want to keep their child RF for dumb reasons:)

[lizzywednesday]

Ok, just checked my friend's thread again (the one who shared the same article I shared) and she had a bunch of people write in about how terrible the new AAP recommendation is. And one of them linked this http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/levitt_carseats_farsdata.pdf

Please help me refute. This is nuts.

IDK if it helps, but what I can tell you is:

(1) It's the Freakonomics study my friend referred to. The authors of Freakonomics are not CPST's or regular scientists. One is a reporter and the other is an economist. They rely solely on statistics over a 28-year period from 1975 to 2003 ... and this study was published in 2005. That's 6 years' worth of data that was omitted.

(2) It analyzes only the prevention/reduction of fatalities.

(3) It only covers kids older than 2 years old.

If they're comfortable with the data from that study, that's their business. For my family and I, I am not.

In a nutshell, it agrees that restrained children in the backseat are safer than unrestrained children in the backseat. What it seems to argue against is the continued (legally mandated) use of car seats and boosters for kids beyond the age of 2. The statistics the authors use point to FATALITIES in auto accidents. I don't recall if there's any mention of a reduction of injuries (serious or otherwise) in these same crash statistics.

When you or I, as a parent, make the decision to purchase (or request the purchase of) a seat with a high height/weight limit for RF, we are intentionally trying to not only reduce our children's risk of death but also of irreparable spinal cord injury.

As I said to my (un-swayed) friend with a DD around my DD's age - it's not the reduction of overall injury; it's the reduction in the TYPE of injury. And I'd rather a broken leg than a broken spine.

[arivecchi]

Ok, just checked my friend's thread again (the one who shared the same article I shared) and she had a bunch of people write in about how terrible the new AAP recommendation is. And one of them linked this http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/levitt_carseats_farsdata.pdf

Please help me refute. This is nuts.
There were threads here and in car-seat.org debunking this "study" when it came out. Basically, if people still want to FF their kids after seeing the you tube crash dummy videos, I am not sure there is much you can do.

A snarky friend of mine (who is a BBB poster too :waving4:) would comment on your friend's thread that this is a good example of Darwin at play. LOL. She's the snark queen.

[arivecchi]

http://www.windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=338672&highlight=freakonomics

You can also simply link this.

http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/

Let them dispute all those links and videos.

[mommylamb]

Thanks Lizzywednesday and arivecchi. That does help a lot. I hadn't seen the previous threads, so this was all new to me. Much appreciated:love-retry:. I just don't understand why anyone would argue about this.

I'm off to have lunch with my friend who works at the Governors Highway Transportation Safety Association, so I'm sure this will be a subject of conversation.

[mommylamb]

So, I sent my friend the report that Jools linked in the thread arivecchi has in her post above. I decided not to post it in my friend's thread so as not to pick a fight with her friends that I don't know, and I just sent it to her directly instead. She can use it to respond to her friends or not.

[chays]

Has anyone responded to the question of a very lightweight 2yo (36", 24lbs) having to rear face until they are 5 or 6? I have a friend who is annoyed that the only way her child will outgrow the seat is to get too tall for it when he is 5 or 6. This is on facebook, so I don't want other people misinterpreting the conversation...

She says: "the current max height guidelines for front and rear facing are the same - so if they don't outgrow the weight limit, they never outgrow the height limit rf until they outgrow the seat. The only diff height guideline is the minimum for front and rear facing. So with his low weight, X could be rearfacing until he outgrows the seat by height at 5 or 6. Most kids outgrow the weight when they hit X's height. So I'll probably turn him before he hits the weight requirement - we are likely 2-3 years from that point.

I say:
I am sorry, but that is simply not true. Rear facing, you want there to be at least 1" of shell above your childs head. Front facing differs by seat, but generally it is when the top straps are below their shoulders or the tops of their ears are above the shell. Front facing rules are seat specific while rearfacing rules are nearly universal. Some kids are all torso and some are all legs, so you need to go by how a child fits in the seat, not by what is written on the box. The angle is substantially different ff vs rf so that comes into play as well for seated height. Regardless, when a child outgrows the weight limit it doesn't matter how tall they are -- the seat is outgrown. I think you would be safe turning X FF long before he is 6 :-)

What would you say? Am I wrong?

[jjordan]

...
I have put many seats in many cars. Almost always, if an infant seat will fit, a larger convertible will fit rear-facing even in small cars. Sometimes it is parents not knowing that they can have the seat more upright for an older baby or toddler. Sometimes it is pointing out that if they move the front seat more upright a notch, they can still have it pushed all the way back for legroom.


We couldn't get our infant seats in our Saturn either. It's definitely because DH puts his seat back so far, but he is 6'4". We certainly would have figured something out if that was our only option, but we just stuck with the van.


I agree with PP that with 2 or more car seats, depending on the car you have it may be nearly impossible. I spent hours figuring out how to fit 2 RF convertibles in our Forester but we still have to move the driver's seat up farther than preferred even though neither of us is particularly tall (though it's still considered a safe enough distance away from the airbag). Thank goodness that's our secondary car. But for some of families, they only have one small car and may have more than 1 child under age 2.

...

The new Britax convertibles take up VERY little front-back space. I tried one in our compact car (rearfacing) and have SPACE between the convertible seat and the backs of the front seats! Even when the front seat is all the way back! (It's like a miracle, seriously. :)) So anyone who has space issues and wants to RF more than one child should definitely look into one of those. The least expensive is the roundabout55, which costs about $150-$160 on sale.


Has anyone responded to the question of a very lightweight 2yo (36", 24lbs) having to rear face until they are 5 or 6? I have a friend who is annoyed that the only way her child will outgrow the seat is to get too tall for it when he is 5 or 6. This is on facebook, so I don't want other people misinterpreting the conversation...

She says: "the current max height guidelines for front and rear facing are the same - so if they don't outgrow the weight limit, they never outgrow the height limit rf until they outgrow the seat. The only diff height guideline is the minimum for front and rear facing. So with his low weight, X could be rearfacing until he outgrows the seat by height at 5 or 6. Most kids outgrow the weight when they hit X's height. So I'll probably turn him before he hits the weight requirement - we are likely 2-3 years from that point.

I say:
I am sorry, but that is simply not true. Rear facing, you want there to be at least 1" of shell above your childs head. Front facing differs by seat, but generally it is when the top straps are below their shoulders or the tops of their ears are above the shell. Front facing rules are seat specific while rearfacing rules are nearly universal. Some kids are all torso and some are all legs, so you need to go by how a child fits in the seat, not by what is written on the box. The angle is substantially different ff vs rf so that comes into play as well for seated height. Regardless, when a child outgrows the weight limit it doesn't matter how tall they are -- the seat is outgrown. I think you would be safe turning X FF long before he is 6 :-)

What would you say? Am I wrong?

No one HAS to rearface their child to age 5-6. (In fact the AAP statement is worded as "age 2 or the limits of the seat," which implies that turning at age 2 is reasonable.) The safety differential is less for older children than for younger children due to the way their skeletons mature. So while rearfacing is always safer, the difference is bigger for younger kids. Most car safety fanatics are willing to turn children forward facing somewhere around age 4 even if they still fit in their rearfacing seat at that point.

[Joolsplus2]

Indeed. The review on carseatblog however now leads with a mention of the newer Symphony 65 which does FF to 65 pounds... very intriguing.

It's been 65 pounds for like a year now. That review is of one of the first ones. I do like it, it fits kid well, harnessed and boostered, and installs well generally, and is way cheaper than the Graco Smart Seat (which is another three-in-one that does it all reasonably well, but lots of kids complain it's uncomfortable! What's the point of that? It needs to come out with a Gen2 that has a more ergonomic set of padding, or something).

[Joolsplus2]

People need to remember that these are recommendations. They aren't law (yet - right?? Correct me if I'm wrong.). Try your best to figure out how to keep your kids RF until at least age 2. If you just can't - then you just can't! And if you don't want to, then don't!! I don't get why people have to post angry comments about the new recommendations, which are based on statistical data. If a parent wants to turn their 1 yo FF, they do not need to go and bash the recommendations. Just feel comfortable with your own parenting decision. The whole point of the new recommendations is to increase awareness and up the number of parents who decide to keep their toddlers RF for longer due to the safety data.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I can't (in my head) scoff at those parents who don't want to keep their child RF for dumb reasons:)

Right, not law yet. That's where reality sets in and dampens my enthusiasm...everyone's paperwork (signs, recommendations, laws, labels on seats), are going to take some time to change. Sigh.

[Joolsplus2]

I think in some cars, it IS hard to do a RFing install except in the middle seat. True, RF is not technically required to be in the middle, but the reality for small cars with tall drivers is that middle seat is the only realistic option.



Regarding the other responses to this point in the thread, I really hesitate to tell another parent that their child WILL stop screaming eventually if left RF, and not turned FF. I have a wonderful, well-educated, maternally-intuitive safety-concerned friend -- she is a great mom in my book -- who sadly turned her kid FF soon after 1, because the kid screamed RF and was too distracting to the driver. I have no doubt that my friend knew her daughter best, and made the safest decision for her family at the time. She was always taking one hand off the wheel and twisting, to reach back and comfort the RF kid. Very unsafe.

I think some of the things that can be off-putting, when it comes to carseat-safety, is that advocates and experts either readily dismiss a parent's realistic usability concerns, or at least do not validate that it is a true issue for a parent. Thus the questioning parent feels defensive, the safety advocates' credibility for understanding the real world is diminished, and eventually the avenues of communication get shut down.

Nicely put, all true.

A lot of extended RF advocates complained bitterly when the new Britaxes came out a little shorter (to fit smaller cars better!) than the old ones (this blog shows how much more space it gives...http://carseatblog.com/6583/britax-marathon-70-review-part-iii-installation/), but my response was, so? If more parents are comfortable sitting in front of a huge RF seat, maybe they'll be inclined to just leave it that way! If you get into the car and eat the dashboard every time, you can't wait to get that seat FF. If you want mega super long RF, buy a Radian or something, there are other options out there, Britax doesn't have to be every seat to every consumer, right?

And yeah, the screaming. Normally it's a stage when kids are trying to develop their gross motor skills. If you can tell mom that some deep breathing will get her through it, well, this too shall pass. If she goes ff for 'now', well, it's fine to go back RF in a couple months, once this stage is over. There are also other things that can be done, like sitting them more upright, making sure they have lots of air circulating, aren't being blinded by the sun, have toys to kick to keep busy, etc.
But I hear you, I've watched people completely turn off listening to me when I push it, it's so hard to find just the right message to convey to parents I understand their concerns, but this really is what's safest. Sigh.