Best strategy for sleep training my 1 year old? CIO?

[goldenpig]

I need advice on the best strategy for sleep training my 1 year old. I want him to start learning how to fall asleep on his own and I'm not sure how to go about doing it. DD slept with us and transitioned to her crib at 13 months, but now we have two which makes it trickier to sleep train.

Currently he sleeps in our bed for naps and night. I nurse him to sleep and if he doesn't fall asleep, he has to have physical contact with me to sleep. He likes to roll around and crawls on top of me or butts his head up against my chest or hugs my neck, and if I try to leave/sneak away before he is fully asleep he sits up and cries until I give in. He goes to bed 8-8:30 and wakes up at 9:30-10, 11-12 and 5-6, and I have to either nurse him or hold him till he falls asleep, and is up at 7. For naps the nanny has to rock him to sleep or lie down with him in our bed as well. He takes two naps a day with her, but with me I can usually only manage to get him to take one. I am spending so much time trying to soothe him to sleep (sometimes I have to lie down with him for 30 min-1 hr because he cries every time I try to pull away) that I can never get the work done that I need to do at night. I've tried getting him to attach to a lovey but it's not working because I'm his lovey!

DD sleeps in a twin bed in a room that also has a crib for DS but the crib is almost never used because as soon as he is placed in the crib, he starts crying (and even if he is completely asleep he will wake up and cry the instant his body touches the crib mattress). Ideally, I would like him to go to sleep in his crib in DD's room for naps and initial bedtime. I would be OK with him sleeping in our bed say after 11 pm. I am kind of conflicted about sleep training in part because I like having him sleep with us. It's really nice snuggling with him. But I need him to learn to sleep better on his own and not use me as his lovey. Also he has fallen out of our bed a couple times when he wakes up by himself (we have bed rails but he can climb over them) so I'd prefer that he cosleep only when we are in bed with him.

We tried CIO (check 5-10-then every 15 min) when he was 8 months old (we had DD sleep in the playroom). It was 3 nights of hell, almost constant crying the entire night, and pretty hard to endure the crying (I was really watching the clock to see when I could go back in). It didn't seem like he was improving at all. And by the 3rd night we were exhausted and DH was concerned that we were "breaking his spirit" and DD kept crying that she wanted to sleep in her bed again so we gave up.

So, now I'm wondering if I should try CIO again, or do something else? I read the Jay Gordon method and thought maybe I should try to train him in our bed first before transitioning to the crib. Tonight I tried rubbing his back and shh-patting him back to sleep when he woke up at midnight and it took over an hour of crying (even though I was lying right there with him). He kept wanting to sleep touching me and I was trying to keep a little distance because I wanted to go back upstairs and work on the taxes (but never made it out of the room). So it's going to be rough and I don't know if I can handle it (both from a fatigue and emotional standpoint), or if DH or DD will be on board either. Need advice and/or moral support--thanks!

[new_mom_mry]

Oh wow, my baby boy who is only 4.5 months old IS JUST LIKE YOUR DS :) The only difference is that our nanny, who is a lot stronger emotionally than I am and has past experience of working at a nursery, has taught DS how to nap in his crib during the day. Otherwise, he refuses to nap there when he is with us, he naps on our bed, and I have to nurse him to sleep both for naps and to go to sleep at night, and he still wakes up to eat a few times per night. It's exhausting! My only piece of advice is to tell your nanny to teach your son to nap in his crib during the day. If you and your DH could handle 3 days of sleep training, your nanny should be able to handle sleep training during the day since her entire job is to take care of your DS...our nanny put a sleep sheep on one side, another soft toy on the other and somehow taught my DS to self-soothe for naps....she also says that she tries very hard NOT to take him out of the crib if he wakes up mid-nap fussing.

I was just thinking about this the other day...it makes total sense that it's difficult for breastfed babies to learn how to sleep through the night or how to sleep in their crib because they are giving up a special bond and snuggle time with mommy as opposed to just food...they have too much to give up, you know?? Life is too wonderful the way it is now...I really don't have any other advice for you since we haven't attempted any rigorous sleep training yet...please let me know if you find a way to get your son to move to his crib because since our DSs are so similar, I will hopefully be able to use it with my son :)

P.S. I forgot to mention the most important thing--our DS sleeps in a mini co-sleeper at night next to our bed...you might want to start with a portable crib of sorts placed next to your bed since your DS is likely too big for the mini co-sleeper, but this might create an easier transition for him than going straight from your bed into his crib.

[wendibird22]

I used Gordon method for DD1. We weren't cosleeping but we were night nursing so I found it a very useful technique.

With DD2 (15mos) I am currently nursing her at bedtime and then put her down in her crib awake and then I lie down on the floor in her room with my eyes closed until she's asleep. The first night she stood in the crib staring at me and screaming for about 15mins. The nights since then she does that for maybe 2mins at max then flops herself down and goes to sleep. I figure this way I show her I am there and not abandoning her but yet I'm not shushing or holding or rocking. Oh and I've reminded myself that her screaming cries are just her way of being mad at me. She isn't crying in a "I really need you mommy" way but in a "You b$tch! I can't believe you just put me down in the crib" way and I just keep telling myself that I won't let my 15mo bully me LOL!

All that said, I think commitment to a process, whatever that this (Gordon, CIO, etc) is really important. You have to find something you are comfortable with and really stick with it for as long as it takes...which could be a week or two. I figure that kids are like animals and can smell fear and weakness and will exploit it until you cave in LOL! So, if you aren't ready to do it and stick to it then keep on doing what you are doing. I also think it is important for your DH to be 100% on board with the plan too. Oh, and for me personally, cosleeping and weaning were not compatible. It was much easier for DH to put DD1 back to bed than for her to be lying next to her favorite boobs and be told shhhhhh go back to sleep.

[PGTB]

DS is exactly the same at 11 months except he wakes up more frequently at night! I am in the same boat sort of... at this point I have simply given up on any type of sleep training and just let the things go their 'natural' way. I hope one day DS will sleep through the night and one day we will be able to transition him our of our bed. So far, the only way we can get any adequate sleep is to have him in our bed even with him waking every 1-3 hours and screaming bloody murder if put somewhere else other than our bed.

We are also struggling with the underweight issue at this point (DS is on the border of failure to thrive) and I am trying to take every opportunity to nurse now, so no sleep training or change of arrangement for us any time soon until he gains adequate weight.

I am thinking in the future to put a twin mattress next to our bed and put DS on the floor, or maybe sidecar a twin bed to our bed. Basically, move him slightly away from me at first into a safe place for him to sleep and not roll over. Have you tried any sort of arrangement like this? If your LO would get used to sleeping in a designated space that is not your bed, you may later move the mattress - bed further away from your bed and then eventually into another room. I've read few people do this, so maybe this will work, I am curious to know what you decide to do! Please keep us updated if you find a way to have your DD accept a lovey other than yourself.

:grouphug:

[PGTB]

My only piece of advice is to tell your nanny to teach your son to nap in his crib during the day. If you and your DH could handle 3 days of sleep training, your nanny should be able to handle sleep training during the day since her entire job is to take care of your DS...our nanny put a sleep sheep on one side, another soft toy on the other and somehow taught my DS to self-soothe for naps....she also says that she tries very hard NOT to take him out of the crib if he wakes up mid-nap fussing.



We tried to have our nanny get DS to sleep in the crib, but this didn't work, at least not for long. He only would sleep in our bed or in the stroller since he was 8 months old. Our nanny carries him around when he gets sleepy until he is ready to fall asleep and then drops him into our bed, or she walks with him in the stroller - he is 11 months old. He was a better sleeper when he was 2 months old, LOL. and he was easier to put into the crib in his earlier months. I think for OPs baby, who is even older it might be harder - they are much more willful and have more energy and can fight sleep better and stay up longer. I think we even tried daytime sleep training before at around 7 months, not sure exactly. But the result was unsatisfactory - DS screamed for an hour and according to Weissbluth at that point I was supposed to just let him skip his nap. A couple of days of doing this and having DS scream and skip naps and we gave up :(

[goldenpig]

Oh and I've reminded myself that her screaming cries are just her way of being mad at me. She isn't crying in a "I really need you mommy" way but in a "You b$tch! I can't believe you just put me down in the crib" way and I just keep telling myself that I won't let my 15mo bully me LOL!

I figure that kids are like animals and can smell fear and weakness and will exploit it until you cave in LOL!

:ROTFLMAO:wendibird22, you are too funny! So true.

new_mom_mry, DS outgrew the Arm's reach cosleeper. I have a pack n play in our room but neither kid has spent more than 2 minutes in it. They hated it. It's an expensive diaper changing station. Right now, the only time I use it is if he is wide awake at bedtime and isn't settling down, I put him in the pack n play and let him stand there and scream for a couple minutes, then when I pick him up again for some reason he is then "ready" to settle down, nurse and go to sleep.

PGTB, I totally get where you're coming from with the underweight issue. It's hard to do sleep training when you're afraid to night wean due to weight issues. DD was also underweight (due to silent reflux) and was <1% for weight so I let her continue to night nurse for ages (even though the ped thought she'd eat better during the day if I weaned her) because she needed all the calories she could get. Even though I started putting her to bed in her crib at 13 months, I would bring her to our bed after she woke up 1-2 hours later. She was still nursing 2-3 times a night, sometimes more. I didn't start the process of night weaning until 18 months, and it was a gradual process over several months. Then she still would wake up once or twice a night and I would go and check on her/pat her. She didn't start sleeping through the night most nights until she turned 2.

DS is also underweight. He was 80% at birth and now at one year is 5%. Not sure if it's his reflux, or dairy allergy, or just our genetics. At least 5% is better than completely off the charts though. Anyways, I'm not in any hurry to night wean him. I just want him to fall asleep on his own.

So I decided to try baby steps. First I'm going to try to get him to learn how to fall asleep in our bed, then work on transitioning him to the crib later. It's probably going to prolong the process, but hopefully will be less traumatic. And I'm not going to worry about making him take naps in the crib until he's OK with going to bed without crying.

He has a lovey that I am trying to get him attached to--it's a Jellycat Bashful Mutt (DD has a Bashful Kitten). He'll hold it if I give it to him but isn't that interested in it yet. I'll keep trying.

So that first night I posted, he cried for 1 hour. That was really rough. Night 2, I think I was too tired and fell asleep with him. Last night, I nursed him in our bed and then said "night night" and got up. He cried a lot--he was really mad. I went into the next room and checked on him every 5 min or so (whenever his crying increased) and said Shh and patted his back. He was mad, standing up on the bed and holding the bedrail. Fortunately he stayed on the bed (he knows how to climb down off our bed, but I didn't want him to fall). He eventually fell asleep after 30 min of crying. When he woke up in the middle of the night (12 & 5), I just nursed him like usual. Tonight, I again nursed him and this time he only cried for 15 min and then fell asleep. So I am hopeful that he's getting used to it and will get better about going to sleep on his own! Wish me luck!

[fumofu]

We're experiencing something similar with DS, who's almost 8 months. Fortunately, he's OK on his weight gain. He's EBF and we cosleep. At 3 months he was able to STTN, waking up once to feed. Then he started waking up more and more times. These days I'm just too groggy to keep count how many times he wakes up. It takes me 30-60 minutes to nurse him to sleep for the night. After that when he wakes up it'll take me about 5-15 minutes. He'll sleep from 8:30pm to 8am.

Two weeks ago I tried nursing DS to sleep then transferring him to the crib. Either he woke up during the transfer, or he'll wake up shortly after. Then we tried putting the crib mattress on the floor, and I nurse him to sleep since that is how he falls asleep in our bed. No luck, he woke up every 30 minutes. We've moved back to the family bed since.

At this point I still don't mind nursing him to sleep if that's what he prefers. But I can tell that it's taking him a longer time to fall asleep for the night. Before it took 30 minutes max, now it'll take up to an hour.

I'm just wondering if nursing him to sleep will eventually stop working. This happened to two of DS's friends who are similar in age. The babies were miserable because their usual way of falling asleep no longer worked. One was sleep-trained using Weissbluth's method. The other one is undergoing sleep training right now using another CIO method.

I also don't think DS wakes up because he's hungry, but more because he's in between sleep cycles and jolts himself up. Sometimes my movement in bed may stir him, but he won't wake up. He'll seem to be sleeping soundly then suddenly starts crying without any external disturbance. At this point he wakes up so often, and I nurse him to sleep every time, that I don't see him display signs of hunger (rooting) when he does wake up.

As for naps, DS is a champion at sleeping in the car or being worn when we're out. But when we're at home, we either nurse to sleep in bed or while I'm holding him. I'll unlatch him after he's fallen asleep, but I always need to be in contact with him.

I just checked out Tracy Hogg's "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer" and Elizabeth Pantley's " No cry sleep solution" from the library. I've never heard fo Jay Gordon. DH is more inclined to sleep train DS, but I'd like to read the books first before I commit to anything.

[goldenpig]

Fumofu, it sounds like your little one has a lot of sleep associations that could be tricky to undo. Sounds really rough & exhausting! Good luck, hope you get more rest soon. One piece of advice I've heard that seems to make sense is to try to be the one to control the touch. Like DS will grab me and hold on for dear life and then I can never get away without him startling awake, but if I instead try to be the one patting him, then I can slowly back off when he starts getting sleepy.

If your DH is willing to help with sleep training, you should definitely enlist his help! It's much easier to sleep train a BF baby if the other partner helps. My DH isn't really on board with the sleep training--theoretically he is, but then he feels like DS doesn't take any comfort from him because he can't breastfeed him, so he's not really enthusiastic about helping in the middle of the night. He's also concerned that letting DS cry a lot is "breaking his spirit". So it's taking a lot longer for me to make the changes on my own.

I never read the Baby Whisperer, but did read No Cry Sleep Solution with DD. She described a technique where you pull off and if they cry, feed them again for a few seconds, pull off, and keep repeating until they fall asleep. To be honest, I didn't find Pantley that helpful with DD. I also read Weissbluth but found it lacking in a concrete step-by-step plan. I tried CIO with her and she would scream for hours and then throw up, so I felt horrible and gave up. The only thing that worked for us was gradual step-by-step changes over several months.

This is the Jay Gordon method (although he advocates for using it only after 1 year):
http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

I'm not necessarily following this method, because DS tends to wake up at 12 & 5 and I'm still nursing him back to sleep. Right now I'm only working on falling asleep at night, with him still in our bed. Half the time I am so tired I just fall asleep with him, but the other nights I'm trying to let him learn how to fall asleep. I'm patting his back and saying "Shh, time to go night-night" for a minute or so, then leaving the room. Tonight he only cried for 5 minutes before falling asleep, so I didn't even have to go back in the room! :yay:Of course, he did wake up at 12 again and I fed him back to sleep, but I'm trying to make the night feeds a little shorter. He still is horrible for naps (I can only manage to get him to take one instead of two, and only if I stay with him) and I don't have the courage to work on naps yet because I don't want him to skip the nap altogether. But I'm glad he's at least improving a little! I'm just taking it one baby step at a time. If this continues to go well, I may try moving him to the crib from 8 pm-midnight next, but that will be tricky because I'll have to move DD out of her room.

Hugs to everyone trying to get their little one to sleep better! :hug:

[fumofu]

So we have set the date for sleep training in two weekends (we'll be out of town next weekend). I got impatient reading Baby Whisperer cover to cover, as it starts with caring for a newborn. So I skipped to the sleep chapter and it gave no advice on sleep training. Maybe I didn't skim as carefully as I should.

I'll start reading Pantley's book tonight.

I am already dreading D-day. We are going from co-sleeping in the family bed to letting DS sleep in his crib in his own room. DH did not like the idea of moving the crib in our room. I feel like DS's poor sleeping habits have been mostly my fault, and am wondering if I'll cause even more damage by kicking him out of our room and into his room.

Ugh, parenting is so scary.