discipline question - what should i have done

[lmh2402]

DS will be two in two weeks. he is definitely living true to his terrible-twos age

tonight at dinner he decided to display his displeasure at the meal by throwing his plate of food on the floor.

clearly, this was not a happy moment for me.

i said, "NO. we do not throw food. we do not throw anything."

and in a split second, he reached out and grabbed my plate to throw it.

i caught it and said, "G - if you throw one more thing, you WILL NOT watch ni hao"

he gets to watch one 1/2 hour show after dinner at night and this is the one he loves, loves, loves.

i thought i had cleared everything so that he wouldn't be able to reach anything else. but i didn't realize the phone was sitting on the table across from me bc DH had called right before this all started.

he grabbed the phone and threw it - hit my plate. knocked plate to floor.

i managed to not yell. i just said, "no ni hao."

he clearly knew he was "in trouble." b/c he was quiet. which is the opposite of how he normally would be.

i cleaned his hands and face and put him down and told him to go play.

he quietly left the room and then he stood in the doorway watching me clean up.

then he came in - i was trying to calm myself and eat my salad. and he started petting my leg saying, "nice mama. nice."

and then he said, "ni hao."

and i said no.

and then the tantrum began. he tantrumed and sobbed and screamed for 30 min.

he would occasionally calm and say, "ni hao?" and i would say no. and it would start up again.

so questions:
1. is he too young for me to have leveled this kind of "threat"? once i had said it, i didn't know if i had gone too far...

2. should i/could i have allowed him to pick a second fave show once he calmed down? after he calmed down he asked for ni hao and i said no, but he could pick something else. he picked a baby signing time and i let him watch. was that a mistake?

thanks.

[egoldber]

I think it was fine. You didn't say no TV, you said no Ni Hao. And you followed through. Good job. :) It sucks, but good job.

[SkyrMommy]

I think you handled that very well. You know your child best and it sounds like he understood what his actions had resulted in.

Although you may have repeat performances (I know we do with DD, she's just about your son's age!) it sounds like you are doing fine. :hug:

[wellyes]

Personally I've found 2.5 to be the starting point for "do this or face the consequences" discipline. It's just not consistently effective before that age (maybe a tinge later). For my DD, at 23 month old she didn't understand cause and effect and has the right level of impulse control for that kind of punishment. She does now, for sure, a year later, but that year make a huge difference developmentally.

Sorry you're having such a tough night! 18 months - 2.5 is tricky new territory, he is pushing boundaries for sure.

[infomama]

You did the right thing and good for you to sticking to your guns. Actions have consequences. I think he was trying to say he was sorry when he was petting you. Even if he was trying to get his show back I would have still gotten down to his level and talked to him calmly about the situation. "Mama loves you. Can you tell me why you threw your plate?". Redirect and see how that goes. He may still throw a fit but at least you recognized his effort to apologize and stuck to your punishment.

[MamaMolly]

Mom-1
Terrible Twos-0

I'd say you did just fine. You followed through with what you said. This is the process you have to go through so he learns you mean what you say.

[hillview]

I think it was fine. You didn't say no TV, you said no Ni Hao. And you followed through. Good job. :) It sucks, but good job.

:yeahthat:

you said no ni hao and he got no ni hao. Well done -- you were text book in my mind. No over reaction just follow through :)
/hillary

[malphy]

I think you handled that well. Part of our jobs as parents is to set the boundaries. You didn't beat him you set a consequence for a behaviour.

He will be fine and so will you!!!

hugs

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys.

it was very sad. i felt like i wanted to take it back. he was very clingy while he was crying. it was the end of the day and he was clearly tired.

but i also KNOW that he really expected me to take it back. so i felt like it was kind of like a make or break moment of proving that i mean what i say.

i just was really wondering if he was too young for such a lesson.

eh. live and learn. maybe next time i'll try harder to catch myself before i say something i might want to take back

BUT...absent of saying, "no ni hao," what would have been a better option for "disciplining?"

simply ending the meal and getting him down was all he was looking for anyway...so i didn't feel like that was sufficient for teaching him that he can't throw things off the table when he's angry.

[m448]

Here's a thought. The goal is to get him to stop throwing and ultimately learn appropriate behavior at the table as he matures out of this stage. ;)

So I wouldn't threaten an unrelated cosequence (the TV show) because that is an ineffective manner of reaching the goal. Around here even the smallest of babies/toddlers are d.o.n.e. the FIRST time you drop/throw things. It's not punitive or malicious to recognize that if a child is truly hungry they will eat and not throw. By starting to throw they are telling you in an albeit immature way that they are done. Parents typically ignore these cues and we end up in an unrelated power struggle.

So baby throws, I might say, "no throwing. Eating only". Then if it persists I clean them up and shoo them to play while I finish. Wash rinse repeat every single day until one day he matures and realizes you are consistent. A child will not starve by missing the tail end of a few meals. Believe me toddlers live on air. You have to be consistent, proactive and most of all super quick kung fu hands.

[Dr C]

You did great!! My feeling is if you make a threat you HAVE to follow through.

If you continue to follow through, he may just start listening because he knows you mean business. On the other hand, you may discover that making threats doesn't work so well for your DS (i.e. he doesn't listen to the threat and then you have to endure the tantrum when you follow through). He might do better with a more immediate form of punishment for undesirable behavior (like a time-out, or in this situation, throwing food = mealtime is over/out of high chair). You'll have to play with it and see what works best for your DS, as no two kids are alike!

But KUDOS. You did great tonight. The most important things you can do are stick to your guns and don't lose your cool, and you did both beautifully.

[wimama]

I think what you did was perfect. You gave him a warning and when he persisted, you followed through. Good job!:thumbsup:

We did timeouts more at that age, which worked well because they were over pretty fast when he cooperated. I always was hard for me to watch my DS throw a tantrum. So, faster was better for me. I think taking away a privilege is just fine though. Now that DS is older we do a lot more loss of privileges or natural consequences.

[egoldber]

I do agree that the consequence may not have been the most pertinent. But sometimes, you're flailing and running on parenting fumes. BTDT. And once you say it, especially for something not very big like that, you need to follow through. Next time, I would just calmly remove him from the table and say all done.

[lmh2402]

ok, thanks everyone. :thumbsup:

[m448]

Like beth mentioned we don't do things the most effective way every single time. These are best case scenarios when brainstorming. But just forget the worry about will he grow well if you're matter of fact and consistent about ending the meal when he throws. Yes he will, eventually he'll outgrow this and in the meantime you get more experience. Win, win. ;)

[bubbaray]

I do agree that the consequence may not have been the most pertinent. But sometimes, you're flailing and running on parenting fumes. BTDT. And once you say it, especially for something not very big like that, you need to follow through. Next time, I would just calmly remove him from the table and say all done.


ITA. I think you did just fine. FWIW, my girls definitely understood consequences at that age.

[jent]

it was very sad. i felt like i wanted to take it back. he was very clingy while he was crying. it was the end of the day and he was clearly tired.


IKWYM by this. Whenever DD crosses a line and ends up with a consequence, she still does the same sort of thing. Gets very sad and clingy. I've found it usually helps if I say something like: "it's all right, sweetie, I'm not angry at you, but I need to teach you what is wrong and what is right. Would you like a hug?" I stand firm about the consequence, but reassure her that I still love her.

Sometimes she even just asks before I say it: "I'm ready for my hug now, mama."

And not that it's magic... if she's in a cranky/whiny mood to begin with, it doesn't magically go away with the hug, but it does seem to take it down a notch.

[Melbel]

I think you did awesome in the heat of the moment. I am also a big believer in following through, which you did, and being consistent to establish boundaries.

I have found that it helps to avoid the power struggle by redirecting when possible. For example, when saying no throwing plates, I might also playfully question, "what do we throw?" "A ball!"

Over time, you will discover which techniques work best for your DS. Each of my 3 DC have been so different.

[dec756]

honestly, we do not ever use threats to intimidate our son. "ie. if you don't listen to me, we are not going to so and so's house to play"

i have watched countless friends do this to their dc and i just think it is silly. the outcome is never what you hope and most of the time the parents cave. its just not our parenting style and that is just my two cents.

in this situation i would have removed dc from the situation long before they had the chance to repeat the same behavior. and once they calmed down, i would talk to them about why what they did was wrong and how they should not do it again in the future. tell them to express how they are feeling with words instead of throwing etc.

[karstmama]

i think this sounds great - true that it's not exactly connected to the 'crime', but still...overall you did good, kiddo!

the only thing i'll add is that asking 'why did you whatever?' might not be the best phrasing (suggested by a pp). 'why?' sends most people to a defensive, angry place. i try to use 'what did you do? yes, you threw a plate. we don't throw plates.' etc.

[gatorsmom]

BUT...absent of saying, "no ni hao," what would have been a better option for "disciplining?"



Actually, I think "no ni hao" was perfect. It was just one show, a one time thing that was easy to enforce. Problems come in when parents (I've been guilty of this before) say things they regret like, "if you do that again, we are NOT going to the birthday party," or "if you dont' stop, no more ni hao (as in no more ever)." These are disciplines which are either too big to enforce or are not appropriate to the situation. And then you can't enforce them and so your child grows to understand that your threats are idle.

Little things like taking a favorite toy away for an hour or saying no to a favorite show (one time) are great because they are easy to enforce, which shows that you follow through, and the more you do this, the more your child will understand that you will follow through. Before you know it, all you'll have to say is, "dont' throw that food or you won't get to watch Ni Hao," and he will stop the behavior because he knows you are serious.

Good job!

[lmh2402]

honestly, we do not ever use threats to intimidate our son. "ie. if you don't listen to me, we are not going to so and so's house to play"

i have watched countless friends do this to their dc and i just think it is silly. the outcome is never what you hope and most of the time the parents cave. its just not our parenting style and that is just my two cents.

in this situation i would have removed dc from the situation long before they had the chance to repeat the same behavior. and once they calmed down, i would talk to them about why what they did was wrong and how they should not do it again in the future. tell them to express how they are feeling with words instead of throwing etc.

thanks to everyone who responded - i really appreciate the perspective and feedback from all the BTDT b/c i have not yet BTDT as DS is my first

i want to just clarify one thing - it is not that we were sitting at the table for hours...or even minutes...on end while i was ignoring his cues that he was done with dinner.

i put him in his chair. buckled him in. sat down in my chair. he took one look at the dinner in front of him. grabbed his plate and threw it. so it all happened very quickly. he hadn't grown full with me ignoring that.

he just was not happy with the food that i had placed in front of him.

but i TOTALLY agree that my response was not pertinent and i need to do a better job of staying calm and focused.

i was just, quite frankly, very caught off-guard and quite angry. it was the end of the day for both of us. i had just spent time preparing dinner.

literally sat down. and had it all thrown at me and on the floor. within minutes.

but onward and upward. it worked out ok and i will try to do better moving forward.

thanks again, guys.

[WolfpackMom]

thanks to everyone who responded - i really appreciate the perspective and feedback from all the BTDT b/c i have not yet BTDT as DS is my first

i want to just clarify one thing - it is not that we were sitting at the table for hours...or even minutes...on end while i was ignoring his cues that he was done with dinner.

i put him in his chair. buckled him in. sat down in my chair. he took one look at the dinner in front of him. grabbed his plate and threw it. so it all happened very quickly. he hadn't grown full with me ignoring that.

he just was not happy with the food that i had placed in front of him.

but i TOTALLY agree that my response was not pertinent and i need to do a better job of staying calm and focused.

i was just, quite frankly, very caught off-guard and quite angry. it was the end of the day for both of us. i had just spent time preparing dinner.

literally sat down. and had it all thrown at me and on the floor. within minutes.

but onward and upward. it worked out ok and i will try to do better moving forward.

thanks again, guys.


I think you did the right thing, you gave a consequence and followed through. Personally, I dont think immediately letting a child get down leave the table etc as soon as they throw a fit is productive, instead it gives them exactly what they want as a result of their actions - to leave the table. Just my 2 cents.

[gatorsmom]

thanks to everyone who responded - i really appreciate the perspective and feedback from all the BTDT b/c i have not yet BTDT as DS is my first

i want to just clarify one thing - it is not that we were sitting at the table for hours...or even minutes...on end while i was ignoring his cues that he was done with dinner.

i put him in his chair. buckled him in. sat down in my chair. he took one look at the dinner in front of him. grabbed his plate and threw it. so it all happened very quickly. he hadn't grown full with me ignoring that.

he just was not happy with the food that i had placed in front of him.

but i TOTALLY agree that my response was not pertinent and i need to do a better job of staying calm and focused.

i was just, quite frankly, very caught off-guard and quite angry. it was the end of the day for both of us. i had just spent time preparing dinner.

literally sat down. and had it all thrown at me and on the floor. within minutes.

but onward and upward. it worked out ok and i will try to do better moving forward.

thanks again, guys.

I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching children consequences. If you throw the food, you will not get dessert. If you hurt your sister, you will not be watching your favorite TV show. If you leave the house without telling me, you will not be going to your friend's house today.

Sometimes I agree that threats aren't necessary because the consequence is part of the action. What I mean is, if they break a toy by throwing it, they will no longer be able to play with that toy. Perfect consequence to their behavior. However, in other situations like hurting others or breaking someone else's toy, they can't themselves feel the pain. I don't agree with causing actual pain, but I have no problem putting them in a time out or another discipline to help them understand that their behavior was inappropriate. At a very young age, I don't feel that siimply telling them their behavior was inappropriate will cause them to rethink their behavior. They just don't think like that yet. Imo, instead, if you try to explain to a toddler that throwing their food was a bad thing but you do nothing other than talk, they think, "hmm, I threw the food, then mommy talked to me. If I throw the food again, mommy will talk to me again." I think they need to see concrete consequences until they are old enough to be able to see the situation from outside themselves. Removing a child from a potential situation before that situation occurs (like taking their food way before they throw it) is just not always possible. jmho

[karstmama]

oh, that's true, and makes me realize i wasn't clear in my post. i do that talking after holding him in a time out, once he's calmed down some. he's not really very verbal, so the physical restraint comes first, always.

[jenfromnj]

I think you did the right thing, you gave a consequence and followed through. Personally, I dont think immediately letting a child get down leave the table etc as soon as they throw a fit is productive, instead it gives them exactly what they want as a result of their actions - to leave the table. Just my 2 cents.

:yeahthat: We've been fighting the same kinds of battles around here (my DS just turned 2 last week), and IMO, DS definitely understands consequences, an we've been using the same kind of method (for example, no "treat" after dinner if he throws his plate). In your case, the fact that your DS tried to charm you (via the "nice Mommy" routine) and bargain to get what he wanted, to me suggests that he does understand.

I don't quite get what the PP said about how this was a "threat" or "intimidation"--you were giving him a consequence for his actions, not proposing to rob him of basic necessities or something. If you'd said "I'm going to lock you in your room for the night without your nightlight or blankie if you don't stop", I can understand how that might be threatening/intimidating, but no Kai Lan? I can see how a calm, post-incident discussion might be helpful, but I think that might be a tough thing to successfully accomplish with an exhausted, not quite 2 year old.