How to get on a napping schedule, 7 mo old

[AnimalBabe]

Our son's naps are still rather sporadic and varying lengths and it is very hard to know when I can go out without messing with his sleep during the day. Also, he used to be able to nap while we were shopping but now he never does that. He will only nap in the car if I am out. I am wondering how you all got your child at this age to nap at certain times or if it just works itself out eventually. I'd say in general he takes his first nap about 2-3 hours after he wakes, but sometimes it is 4 hrs later! This one is usually the longest, around 1-1.5 hours long. His second nap occurs about 2-3 hours after the first one ends, and is shorter (usually at most 45 minutes). On top of not having a set schedule, his naps are more inconsistent lately because we think he is teething. He goes to daycare as well 2-3 days per week and his naps vary there too and if we were to try nap training, which I am not keen on trying, I know they will not let him cry but will continue to rock him to sleep (which may confuse him more!).

I feed/rock him at home for naps until he is pretty drowsy, but we don't rock him at night anymore. This might something we have to change because obviously if we are in a store I won't be able to rock him. Do you all have nap routines? I thought maybe if I sang a certain song anytime he starts to fall asleep for a nap that I could do that while we're out when I see him getting drowsy and it might prompt him to nap. Worth a shot!

Thanks for your suggestions!

[daisymommy]

I HIGHLY recommend the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Weissbluth. It lays out for you month by month when the child's typical biological sleep clock needs naps, wake up/bed times, and how long to keep them awake between sleeping. It has some suggestions for getting them to sleep, but it's more about getting them on a schedule/routine.
*Disclaimer: the book is good, but his other opinions about parenting stink (expressed on his blog).

This is the book that helped me get all 3 kids sleeping on a good schedule (without crying it out either).

For "how-to" get babies to sleep when you're having sleep trouble, I highly recommend "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley.

And I know you may not want to hear this, but by 7 months, you really need to try to plan shopping and outings around nap times so he can get a good length of still sleep--which is better quality sleep than moving sleep (in a car, stroller, etc.). It's not like when they are newborns and they sleep well anytime, anywhere.

Here are my notes on file straight from the book:

---------------------------------------------------------
Wake-Up Time:
Usually occurs at 7:00 A.M.
Ranges between 6:00-8:00 A.M.

Morning Wakeful Time:
4-5 months: 2 hrs. (1 hr. for easy or premature babies)
8 months: 3 hrs.

Nap #1 Midmorning:
Develops at 3-4 months old
Occurs at about 9:00 A.M.
Lasts 1-2 hrs.

Midday Wakeful Time:
2-3 hrs. of wakefulness

Nap #2 Early Afternoon:
Usually occurs at 1:00 PM.
Occurs between Noon and 2:00 P.M., but should definitely begin before 3:00 PM.
Lasts 1-2 hrs.

Nap #3 Late Afternoon: (optional)
Up to age 9 months.
Occurs between 3:00-5:00 PM.
Very brief (around 1 hr.)
Eliminate to encourage an early bedtime at 9 months.

Afternoon Wakeful Time:
If there is no 3rd nap, this is the best time to get out of the house for longer errands and excursions.

Bedtime:
Usually at 7:00 P.M.
Ranges between 6:00-8:00 PM.

Timeline of Elimination of Morning Nap
12 months- 82% taking 2 naps
15 months- 43% taking 2 naps
18 months- 77% taking single afternoon nap
21 months- 88% taking single afternoon nap
22-26 months- Only an afternoon nap.

Night feedings at 5-12 months
1) 4-6 hrs. after last feeding (usually between 11pm-1am.)
2) Between 4:00-5:00 am.

[eh613c]

Nap routines start in early infancy. I agree with PP to get the book. By 7 mos your DS should have a routine. Since he goes to daycare 2-3 times/wk, perhaps the routine that you set gets messed up. I know many daycares only provide 1 naptime. How is he sleeping at night?

[new_mom_mry]

DaisyMommy--thank you for posting your notes, sooo helpful!!! I think I'll buy the Weissbluth book now! :)

[AnimalBabe]

Thanks for your thoughts. As I noted in my initial post, he does have somewhat of a schedule, but it can vary by an hour or so, so I guess I'm just wondering how to signal to him that it is nap time--s.a. having a napping routine that can be applied on the go, during vacations, etc, as well as at home. Right now as I do is take him to his room when he looks tired (yawning, rubbing his eyes) and try to feed him to sleep. Oftentimes though he'll just cry when I put him down or giggle, and then wake right back up. I'll definitely look the book you suggested for tips on how to get him to sleep!

I do think daycare is compounding the problem. Not much I can do about that though since they put them down for naps at their own pace, and the noises/bright lights, etc, don't help I'm sure. Once he turns 1 year old they move them to another room and they all get one long nap after lunch, so at that point I can try to keep that schedule. He sleeps great at night but lately has some of the same crying episodes, which makes me think that some of the issues we are experiencing are due to teething. He goes to bed around 6:30-7pm, wakes once to eat usually around 9:30-10:30, and then wakes for the day around 6-6:30am.

I don't believe in having super strict schedules as I don't want to be one of those mothers that misses a family get together because I can't leave the house all morning or afternoon! :nono: That being said, I do try to plan my day when I'm home around him as much as possible, and wait for him to wake before leaving for work, etc, instead of making him conform to my schedule. However, with our busy lives it's just not feasible to always be at home for naps, which is why we've tried to make him more adaptable. Only problem is, since they vary somewhat it's hard to time it, especially lately. Hopefully it will get easier soon!

[firemama]

OP, I feel your pain. :hug: I could have written your post word for word. Our DD STTN for 12 hours, but naps are hit or miss. I nurse her in her room, shade pulled down, and once she is asleep lay her down in her crib. The second I lay her down, she pops her head up and will NOT go back to sleep. If I hold her, she will sleep anywhere from 1 to 3 hours on me. I have tried waiting 15 minutes up to an hour to lay her down, and every time she wakes up. I am soooooooooo sick of being strapped down. I can't eat anything, let alone drink anything, because the entire time I have to go to the bathroom. So for the rest of the day I feel like I am catching up on drinking gallons of water. I hate it! I am so mad too, because when I was a nanny, the family had me hold their LO for his naps and I SWORE I would NEVER do that with my own. And now I feel like my hands are tied.

Yes, she is so nice and cuddly and I do love every minute of it. But I need my sanity! I need those nap times to get my stuff done, like take a shower or eat something or go to the bathroom if I want, ugh!!!

And I am sick of people saying, oh she sleeps through the night for 12 hours??!! So what! She's getting plenty of sleep, maybe she doesn't need naps. But I think she needs them and I need her to take them! :banghead:

[kaharris83]

My DS is 8.5 months and is on no type of napping schedule whatsoever. He also has to be held while napping, when he decides he'd like a nap. He doesn't STTN either. He used to sleep really well in the carrier while I was running errands but now he's completely intrigued by all that's going on around him and prefers not to sleep when we're out. Guess I'll have to look into those books. I agree about not wanting to be super strict about scheduling though.

[Beth24]

I just want to say that I have used the Weissbluth model for all four of my kids to establish nap routines and it really works.

[lovebebes]

OP, I feel your pain. :hug: I could have written your post word for word. Our DD STTN for 12 hours, but naps are hit or miss. I nurse her in her room, shade pulled down, and once she is asleep lay her down in her crib. The second I lay her down, she pops her head up and will NOT go back to sleep. If I hold her, she will sleep anywhere from 1 to 3 hours on me. I have tried waiting 15 minutes up to an hour to lay her down, and every time she wakes up. I am soooooooooo sick of being strapped down. I can't eat anything, let alone drink anything, because the entire time I have to go to the bathroom. So for the rest of the day I feel like I am catching up on drinking gallons of water. I hate it! I am so mad too, because when I was a nanny, the family had me hold their LO for his naps and I SWORE I would NEVER do that with my own. And now I feel like my hands are tied.

Yes, she is so nice and cuddly and I do love every minute of it. But I need my sanity! I need those nap times to get my stuff done, like take a shower or eat something or go to the bathroom if I want, ugh!!!

And I am sick of people saying, oh she sleeps through the night for 12 hours??!! So what! She's getting plenty of sleep, maybe she doesn't need naps. But I think she needs them and I need her to take them! :banghead:

omg this is me.

[lovebebes]

just ordered No Cry Sleep Solution...

[BigDog]

OP, I feel your pain. :hug: I could have written your post word for word. Our DD STTN for 12 hours, but naps are hit or miss. I nurse her in her room, shade pulled down, and once she is asleep lay her down in her crib. The second I lay her down, she pops her head up and will NOT go back to sleep. If I hold her, she will sleep anywhere from 1 to 3 hours on me. I have tried waiting 15 minutes up to an hour to lay her down, and every time she wakes up. I am soooooooooo sick of being strapped down. I can't eat anything, let alone drink anything, because the entire time I have to go to the bathroom. So for the rest of the day I feel like I am catching up on drinking gallons of water. I hate it! I am so mad too, because when I was a nanny, the family had me hold their LO for his naps and I SWORE I would NEVER do that with my own. And now I feel like my hands are tied.

Yes, she is so nice and cuddly and I do love every minute of it. But I need my sanity! I need those nap times to get my stuff done, like take a shower or eat something or go to the bathroom if I want, ugh!!!

And I am sick of people saying, oh she sleeps through the night for 12 hours??!! So what! She's getting plenty of sleep, maybe she doesn't need naps. But I think she needs them and I need her to take them! :banghead:

This is me too! DS2 is 6.5mos and I'm struggling with the naps. With DS1 I was on such a good schedule with him by 3-4mos; with DS2, not so much! I used Ferber with DS1 and it worked pretty well. Not really ready to implement Ferber with DS2 right now though. Especially because it's difficult to keep to a nap schedule when we're active with DS1 on the weekends. We do the best we can though with what we're given and I'm ok with that for right now. It'll all work out eventually!

[Green_Tea]

I don't believe in having super strict schedules as I don't want to be one of those mothers that misses a family get together because I can't leave the house all morning or afternoon! :nono: That being said, I do try to plan my day when I'm home around him as much as possible, and wait for him to wake before leaving for work, etc, instead of making him conform to my schedule. However, with our busy lives it's just not feasible to always be at home for naps, which is why we've tried to make him more adaptable. Only problem is, since they vary somewhat it's hard to time it, especially lately. Hopefully it will get easier soon!

I completely understand why it seems impossible to commit to a hard and fast schedule, but IME having a well preserved sleep schedule becomes more and more important as a baby grows older and is less likely to fall asleep spontaneously while on the go. Sleep is so important for brain development and growth, and an overtired toddler can lead to all sorts of behavioral challenges, including epic bedtime struggles. Babies and toddlers thrive on predictability and routine (which, if I am remembering correctly, is what Weissbluth stresses - it's been awhile since I read that book, but I agree with PPs - it's a great one!). In the grand scheme of things, the years that you need to spend working around your baby's sleep schedule are a mere drop in the bucket, and having a well rested baby with a predictable schedule can be a real blessing.

Can you work with daycare to determine a set naptime and then work to preserve that naptime at home? That might be a good starting point.

[daisymommy]

I agree with GreenTea, when you have a 1+ year old having a total screaming meltdown out in public because they needed their nap an hour ago and you're trying to get to them to fall asleep in a stroller with lights, sound and movement all around--or there is no option to sleep at all--and everyone is staring at you, you quickly realize that a nap routine is your friend, not a hostage taker ;) By a certain age, they just aren't adaptable, and life has to slow down and become more predictable.

[AnimalBabe]

Thanks again everyone, I feel so much better knowing this is pretty common. When he did this again this weekend I tried to let him cry/fuss a little bit and he went to sleep pretty quickly on his own, but then woke 20 mins later! Arghhhh. I really think it must be teething.

Daycare won't put him on a schedule but if I can get him on one myself then I'm sure they'll try to work with me and try to rock him at those set times. But there's no guarantees, and I feel like it's daunting to try to get him on a schedule myself. I am not thrilled at the idea of daycare forcing him into one afternoon nap when he turns 1 year old (I think it's too early), but at least there will be a schedule then that everyone maintains.

In the meantime, I'll try to work on set times. What do you all do at naptime in terms of "setting the mood"? I want to keep the room bright to mimic daycare, and I only use white noise at night. So I read a certain book or sing a song?

Firemama: Your post (and emoticon) really made me laugh! Hope you have some success soon too!!

[Green_Tea]

Is he in daycare all week? Or just some days? I am surprised that they don't have a a schedule/routine - most daycares are extremely routine-oriented.

[AnimalBabe]

He is in daycare only 2-3 days per week and there are 2 infant rooms. He is in the one that goes up to 1 year old, and everything is based on the baby there. So they feed on demand (unless you really want a rigid feeding schedule) and rock them when they're tired, etc. They will work with you if you want something specific though. All of the daycares we had looked at were this way, so maybe the ones in your area are different?

[Green_Tea]

He is in daycare only 2-3 days per week and there are 2 infant rooms. He is in the one that goes up to 1 year old, and everything is based on the baby there. So they feed on demand (unless you really want a rigid feeding schedule) and rock them when they're tired, etc. They will work with you if you want something specific though. All of the daycares we had looked at were this way, so maybe the ones in your area are different?

That's terrific that they respond to the baby's needs. I am still a little surprised that they don't have even a *loose* schedule.

Seeing as he's only in daycare 2-3 days a week, I would concentrate on establishing a schedule at home and then extending it to daycare. I would work to mimic nighttime conditions, not to replicate what they do - so I'd make the room darker, use the white noise, etc.

When all three of mine were 7 months old, they very consistently took a nap exactly two hours after waking for the day. Usually they were up at around 7 am, so at about 8:50 I'd bring them into their darkened room, turn on the white noise, put them in a sleep sack, sing the bedtime song and put them down awake. Sometimes they'd fuss, but usually not. And even if they didn't *seem* particularly tired or sleepy, 99% of the time they'd sleep for around 2 hours. I'd repeat the routine at around 1 pm, and then bedtime would be around 6:30 or 7. If I had to sacrifice a nap, I always made sure it was nap #2 because I could move up bedtime to compensate.


IME, the routine (consistent timing, song, sleep sack) and creating an environment that fosters sleep (dark room, white noise) were key.

[daisymommy]

Couldn't have said it better myself!
I used to be a daycare and preschool director, for 2 different centers. At both places the wall of cribs was on one side of the room and they would turn down the lights on that side for nappers, and leave the lights on the other side for babies who were awake. We would never expect babies to be able to fall asleep with all the lights on and sounds going on around them.

I would bring in some things from sleep experts showing that at 1 year old, babies still need 2 naps (up until around 18 months) and try to get them to work with you and your son's needs on that.

I would do just as GreenTea suggested, and give him a darkened room, white noise, sing a song, rock, etc. to soothe him. Basically you are setting the stage to make it a reflex in his brain that when these things happen, he falls asleep. And hopefully falls asleep for close to 2 hours (goodie for you the mama!)

Good Luck!

[candaceb]

I am big on Weissbluth and it has worked very well here. One of the things he says is that if you have the baby on a good sleep/nap schedule, they will be more adaptable and if there's a day when they don't get all of their naps in, they'll be OK because they're getting enough sleep overall. We were traveling over the weekend and definitely found that it worked for us. We made sure that DS got his morning nap (in the car the first morning, in the hotel room bathroom (because it was dark and quiet) the second) and then he was able to snooze in the Ergo for his 2 afternoon naps and he was OK even though they weren't as long as usual.

He is 7.5 months. Here is his schedule

6:30-7:00 wake up

9:00 first nap

10:00-10:30 wake up from nap

12:00 second nap

1:00-1:30 wake up from nap

3:00 third nap (I often time it so we're driving home from somewhere at this time and he sleeps in the car - that way we can actually get out of the house)

3:30-4:00 wake up from third nap

6:30 bed time

he is usually up once or twice during the night - sometimes between 11-1, and always between 3-4. He is EBF but started solids at 6 months.


I have found in the last six weeks or so that it is increasingly important for the room to be dark when he sleeps. Otherwise there is just too much interesting stuff to look at. I ended up getting blackout roller shades to go over the windows even though we already had room darkening blinds.
We went through a phase where he was waking up after a half hour during his naps and that just isn't enough time. So I started just leaving him in his crib and found that he would go back to sleep after babbling for a while. Now he is sleeping through most of the time.

For naps, I don't have a set routine for getting him to sleep. I nurse him if our schedule is working that way, then lie him down with his collection of binkies and lovies and he babbles for a while and then goes to sleep. For bedtime, we get ready for bed, read a story, nurse, and then lie him down.

Good luck!

[JoyNChrist]

6:30-7:00 wake up

9:00 first nap

10:00-10:30 wake up from nap

12:00 second nap

1:00-1:30 wake up from nap

3:00 third nap (I often time it so we're driving home from somewhere at this time and he sleeps in the car - that way we can actually get out of the house)

3:30-4:00 wake up from third nap

6:30 bed time

he is usually up once or twice during the night - sometimes between 11-1, and always between 3-4. He is EBF but started solids at 6 months.



My twins are 7.5 months and we have almost the exact same schedule (they wake up between 7-8a and got to bed between 7-8p, and the third nap is knd of hit or miss). DS usually STTN, while DD is still up every 3-4 hours (but she's a lot smaller than him). Weissbluth and CIO (Ferber method) were God-sends for us.

[AnimalBabe]

candaceb: Thanks for your thoughts. I'm curious, if you don't always nurse your baby to sleep for naps, then how did your little one come to adopt that schedule? Did you do cry it out? When I put our son down for naps, he will cry and kick if I put him down without nursing him until he is almost asleep. He hates to be left alone for too long during the day in general, and if I were to put him in his crib during naptime with a toy he would inevitably play for it for a few mins until he realized he was left there alone and start screaming. I haven't wanted to do CIO with naps, but we did it with nighttime and it worked (pretty much) for that.

I've found that my son has also been waking after only a half hour lately for naps, so I think I will try the blackout shades and see if it helps! I was hesitant to darken the room since it is bright in the daycare. daisymommy--the daycares you worked at sound awesome but they don't do that at any of the daycares I looked at..they are all still bright, and there are kids playing while others nap, so he has to try to sleep through all that. And didn't the kids on the one side of the room still hear what was going on on the other side at your daycares? I can't picture that helping.

Once he moves to the other infant room at 1 year, they all take naps at the same time so maybe they turn the lights off in there. I'm not sure. So, I could try darkening the room at home, but he'll still have to sleep in different conditions at daycare. I am probably going to request that he stay in the room he is currently until about 18 mos and then have him moved over so he doesn't switch to one nap only so soon.

Similarly, I really don't want to do white noise during naptime at home, as our daycare recommended we try NOT to make it super quiet at home or he'll never be able to sleep through the noise at daycare. I tend to agree on that point and have seen him take really long naps there despite the noise.