Grandparents Cutting Off Kids-Long

[Cuckoomamma]

4.5 years ago my ILs cut off our family and said that they didn't want to see us anymore. At the time, they lived across the street from us. It came out of no where, and while I didn't think we were super close, it was shocking to all of us.

BIL has always been the favored son (paid for his college but not for dh, etc) and they've always been open about that. Just never believed it would extend to the grandchildren.

The situation is very much like a divorce where the other parent has no contact with the child. The girls get a package on their birthdays and Christmas but that's it. DD1 has written to them a couple of times with no response back.

They moved about 2 years after the fall-out to live near BIL and take care of his children. It's very difficult when we see them because the cousins reference all their time with the grandparents. It had become problematic before the fall-out as even though they lived across the street, my girls didn't see the grandparents even half as much as the cousins who lived 2 hours away. DD1 felt very slighted, but I thought it was something they could work out. Despite not seeing them as often as the cousins, we would see them a couple of times a month and for all the holidays. We'd drop by during the day, eat dinner at their house or go out, etc.

The girls are almost 10 and 6 now. We don't talk about it often, but I know it's painful for both. I've heard them talking amongst themselves, and recently found out why dd1 doesn't like something she used to love is because it reminds her of them.

Does anyone know any books that I can read? I just really don't know how to handle the whole thing. We've been muddling along these past 4.5 years and I feel as if I really need to figure out the right way to handle it.

Do I encourage them to write them? Do I go on as if they don't exist? Do I downplay the attention that the cousins get? I dont' want to talk badly about them because they're their grandparents, but I feel like none of us would have been hurt as much as we were if I'd listened to dh about his parents. I feel that I ended up allowing my children to be hurt because I believed the ILs were decent people. It's such a fine line.

Anyone who was cut off from their grandparents want to weigh in?

FTR, the tipping point was when MIL fed dd1 something she was allergic to and I called them about it. It was the FIRST time I'd ever spoken to them in an agitated tone. I was always very accomodating, even when MIL would give dd something she shouldn't be eating. Once FIL confirmed that MIL did what I said she did, he got back on the phone with dh and told him that they never wanted to see us again. Weird reaction, right?

That first Christmas dd1 wanted to know if the reason that they didn't put up their Christmas lights was because they were mad at her.

I had hoped it wouldn't last a week, and it's lasted 4.5 years with no end in sight. Around the holidays and birthdays are always the toughest and we've got Easter and a bday coming up. BTW, no card for dh's bday or mine and the Christmas cards are only addressed to the girls. We send them thank-you cards and Christmas cards. After the first 2 years of no bday card for dh I got really irritated and stopped sending the gparents bday cards for their bdays.

[pinkmomagain]

I felt just sick reading your post. So sorry that your family has gone through this.

I have no good advice. If I were in your shoes, part of me would not even want to accept the occassional gifts -- send them back. I'd wonder if perhaps the gifts are more to mitigate the GPs own guilt, than truly out of love/care for the grandchildren. I would think it would be a little less painful to simply have no contact at all (no gifts) than what you currently have. But I don't know...

Curious to know how BIL/SIL play into this whole thing....do they think this OK? Although BIL is favored, has he ever tried to step in help repair the GP relationship with you guys?

Again, so sorry you -- and particularly your daughters -- are dealing with this. I wouldn't even know what to say to the girls. Hopefully, a wise BBB mommy will chime in with great advice.

((Hugs))

[weech]

My mom's mom disowned our family when I was a kid. It was a similar situation where my brother and I felt slighted, and we spent time with our cousins who had not been disowned by this woman.

From my experience, it will be tough. Quite honestly, I've grown to hate my mom's mom quite a bit. She decided she wanted to have a relationship with my mother after my mom had a stroke several years ago, but I will never forge a relationship with her. Ever.

My mom used to tell us that her mom disagreed with choices she made and couldn't accept that my mom loved my dad (mom is white, dad is black). I felt she was very honest with us about the situation, made sure to tell us that it had nothing to do with us, etc. As an adult looking back on the situation, I really appreciate her honesty. She made it a point to focus on our immediate family and the family that did not disown us. Ultimately, we did end up distancing from my mom's family in general because the interactions became awkward, but I don't think my brother or I were negatively affected by that.

If the grandparents aren't responding at all to your children's communications, I'd discourage them from writing. Be honest with them (in an age appropriate way), even tell them that you don't really understand what's going on. After all that happened with my family, I think I would have been twice as bitter if my mom had lied to me about what was happening or given me false hope.

I'm so sorry you and your kids have to deal with this. It's such an awful situation and I hope you find a solution that works for your family! :( :hug:

eta - I agree with PP. I would not accept the gifts, and would make sure the kids don't know about them. I think it will only end up prolonging the hurt.

[minnie-zb]

I agree with the others, if they don't want a relationship then I would not accept gifts nor would I encourage your children to communicate (or attempt to). It is more confusing for the kids and gives them a mixed signal. Get some family therapy to help them understand it is not about them, but about the grandparents. Obviously there is more to the story on the part of the grandparents. Don't let the kids think this is a situation which will change -- I doubt it ever will. I'd also try to help the kids understand that just because someone is family does not mean they (or you) will always like them and that there's many definitions of family and sometimes you get to create your own family with friends who mean lots to you.

[mommylamb]

Wow. Just wow. Your poor kids. Honestly, in this instances, I'd cut them off entirely. It's not fair to your kids to feel second fiddle all the time. And, I don't say that easily. I'm not the type to cut off family, but this is such an extreme situation. I would not encourage your DD to write to them if they don't write back or make any effort to see your kids. I don't think you need to talk badly about them to your girls, but I think you can be honest and say that you don't think that their grandparents treat them fairly.

I'm also curious about how your BIL and his family react to this. How often do you see them?

[Cuckoomamma]

Thank you for your responses. I was shocked to hear that so many of you would refuse the gifts. My parents are divorced and my dad left us with no contact for 10 years, so I'm a little biased in cutting off ties. It's so helpful to hear what all of you would do who don't come from that same background. It also echoes what I feel my error was in the first place - trying to pretend they were always more than they were and then my kids getting a very unpleasant surprise. I just have such a hard time walking away from relationships. But definitely don't want that same issue for my girls!

BIL has always spoken negatively about the gparents. Even though he is favored, the parents have always given the clear impression that their relationship comes first and that the kids were never that important. BIL is definitely scooping up any crumbs of love that his parents toss out. It doesn't help that SIL is the coldest, most un-maternal woman you can imagine. MIL thrives on the fact that she can give very little (emotionally) to those kids and still come out as the one the kids turn to.

SIL said that she told BIL that she felt bad for my girls and that he responded that "that's life". Sounds very much like something he could have said. During the two years that ILs still lived across the street from us, BIL and SIL would leave our birthday parties earlier than the other guests to go visit with the ILs. Made it so very difficult for our girls. So many issues rolled into one experience. The ILs were always down there with them, at least once a week and sleeping over. It was as if they already lived there already. So, there wasn't any real need to leave the party early to go see the ILs.

Dh says he isn't angry with BIL, that BIL is just so in need of love. I feel differently. I feel as if bad behavior continues because he's not standing up to it. Of course, I think BIL's perspective is that he might lose some of his parents love if he said something.

Also, BIL bought the house that ILs live in. They sold the house they were going to sell/give to us and pay BIL rent every month. BIL is doing very well financially, and we're not. The ILs take the cousins to and from school every day, parents go away for vacation and leave the 4 kids, etc.

In looking at it all, I'm acting like BIL and letting my kids scoop up the crumbs that the gparents send. I think my perspective is also colored by the fact that I just keep hoping that they'll feel guilty and try to make up for it. Judging from your responses, I'm being delusional.

[liz]

Oh,wow. I am so sorry. What a terribly hurtful situation. I don't have any good advice, but the PP had some good points. I agree that you should be honest with your kids.

FTR, my brother and my SIL recently got divorced. SIL was DS1 godmother (I knew I should have picked someone else- but that is another story). She stopped having any contact with us and with DS1 a long time before the divorce was finalized. I still feel a lot of hurt and sadness for my DS, but I have talked to him about the situation. I was honest and said that I didn't know why SIL stopped seeing us, but it had nothing to do with him etc. My heart aches you all- esp your DH. I wish you the best.

[minnie-zb]

I'm sorry it is a horrible situation and the kids are obviously hurting. I guess what you need to think about is what message you are sending the children and how you want them to value themselves and their relationships with others in the future. Just because they are grandparents does not give them free reign to abuse the relationship and treat the kids badly. And though your BIL is not helping the situation it is not his situation to fix -- he sounds pretty broken himself.

Do the children have a relationship with your parents?

[larig]

:grouphug: big hugs for you and your family. Your ILs are terrible people. How anyone can take out grown-up issues on children is just beyond me. How can they not understand the way they're treating their own grandchildren?! Just appallingly bad behavior.

My DH has a grandmother who has always been nasty to his mother, and as an adult he has cut her off. He sends no presents, pictures or anything to her. I think that your girls would likely end up doing that themselves at some point, especially when they learn how poorly they've treated their father and mother.

It's sad for kids to miss out on getting to know grandparents who have passed away, but I don't think you should be so sad for them missing out on getting to know these nasty, cruel people. They sound like a cancer.

As for BIL, your DH is right, he's probably an insecure guy who has spent his life trying desperately to be loved by people who are unloving. I'd pity him, despite his financial windfall.

So sorry you have to deal with this. It's unfair.

[elbenn]

Your inlaws clearly have issues. Make sure your DDs know that they have done nothing wrong and that the inlaws are acting wrong. I agree with other PPs that I wouldn't have your DDs write the inlaws letters. It just opens up an avenue for the inlaws to reject them. I'm so sorry that your inlaws are such jerks.

[Multimama]

This is just my perspective speaking from the experience of being the grandchild in this type of situation, so take it for what it is (biased, but from the heart).

I disagree with those who are saying to refuse the gift or to discourage your girls from writing. That should be their choice and not yours. If I were you, I would explain to them that they don't have to write if they don't want to. I would also explain to them that if they want to, they certainly have the right to practice acts of kindness towards people who don't reciprocate. That is a human dignity that no one can take away from them. They love their grandparents and they want to express that. If it helps them, they should do it. I would also let them choose if they want to open the gifts or if they want to keep them. (Even with the option that you could store them somewhere. They don't have to decide now.)

I know it seems like that is more painful for them than cutting off the grandparents completely, but cutting them off entirely and not knowing them won't keep them from the pain that this severed relationship is going to cause. For my part, I'm glad that I had what relationship I had with my grandparents. Yes, it was painful a lot of the time, but it was MY relationship with them and having had that relationship with them (as limited as it was) and having known them helped me to understand my mom, myself and the kind of parent I do (and don't) want to be to my kids. I wouldn't trade that knowledge in for anything. (I think if I hadn't known them at all I might have maintained fantasies about them or imagined that it was my mom that stood between us being close instead of their choice.) Now that I am an adult I have in fact made the choice not to continue communicating, but that's my choice. I appreciate that my mom is supportive of whichever choice I make.

The best thing I think you can do is to talk to your kids about this honestly and openly, don't bad-mouth the grandparents, but also don't sugarcoat it. Share your feelings in an age-appropriate way because kids are really observant and want to talk to you about this and most importantly give them an opportunity to share what they are feeling. This is a kind of grieving process, because they really have lost their grandparents, and you want them to know that you are there to support them and that grieving this lost relationship is normal. I think family therapy could be really great. Most importantly of course make sure they know that this is not their fault. And let them know that *you* love them unconditionally.

[elektra]

That is completely f'd up.
I would also just write them off. I am not sure what to tell your DC but maybe something like your IL's are ill and it makes them do things that are crazy.

[ohsara430]

I also disagree with the advice to refuse gifts and discouraging writing the grandparents. You need to be honest with your girls about the relationship your family has with the gparents but if you step in and cut off the communication that exists that can hurt things even more. If your girls want to stop writing them and don't want the gifts, fine but if it were me I wouldn't make that decision for them. I know it has been years but you never know, it is possible for big wounds to heal over time.

I think not accepting the gifts and stopping the girls from writing is a sign of bitterness and that is not something you want to teach your girls. Instead the goal should be to forgive the gparents for their choices and be at peace with the relationship even though it's not what it should or could be.

[Cuckoomamma]

I think that no matter what, I'd have to be upfront with the girls. I couldn't get the gifts and not tell them. I think that they would eventually resent that I interfered with their relationship. I can counsel them one way or another, and I guess that's what prompted my post.

I'm just not sure how to counsel them. I've told them plenty of times that their gparents are acting this way because of who they are and not because of the girls or us. I'm not sure that this has much effect. I've also told them that I really don't understand all that's happened either. I really don't, which is partly why I don't kknow how to handle all of this.

Some days I think that I should counsel forgiveness and acceptance of who they are...send Easter card, pictures, etc. On other days I think that this will set them up to feel unappreciated when there's nothing in return. Maybe it's just easier to practice random acts of kindness to others rather than to those we know and may be disappointed when there's nothing coming back. Some days I think that they should write to their gparents and let out their feelings, others I think that it might be dwelling and that life should just go on and we should ignore them and the references to them.

When my niece talks about how great MIL is and that she loves to see her every day, I don't know if I should counsel the girls to say, "MIL isn't so great", just ignore the comment or what. I have asked dn not to talk about it in front of the girls because it makes them feel bad. Don't know if that was right or wrong.

Not saying we won't go for counseling, but was wondering if there's a book I can read.

I do think that like Multimama, my older dd has deep resentment for MIL and FIL. But it's covering a well of deep sadness. I can see it in her eyes when she talks about them. She's said that she hopes nothing good happens to them because they don't deserve it.

[minnie-zb]

Your older daughters comment is troubling as it sounds like she thinks she deserves what has happened. She really needs to understand the problem is not her and some therapy could go a long way to help her understand this -- and give her some tools for dealing with comments from her cousins. As far as your niece saying those things, ummm...how old is she? Personally this is a topic to have with your bil and sil -- they need to help with teaching their kids sensitivity.

[edurnemk]

I also think you should not refuse the gifts, your girls should get to choose, after explaining to them that GP's issues have absolutely nothing to do with them.

My paternal GM didn't really cut us off, but there was a HUGE preference for my cousins (her daughters' kids). I mean huge, we'd see her a few times a year, she'd never remember our bday's, I only got 2-3 Xmas gifts from her in my life, she never took the time to get to know me and my brothers, even at family events we'd get very little attention from her, and that contrasted sharply with the attention my cousins got from her (and let me add my parents supported her financially for years, whenever she called we wondered what she'd ask for now). For my cousins, she babysat when they were kids, got them gifts all the time, visited or had them visit every week, they were uber close... it was painful. When I was in college I found out that they had a monthly brunch for all the LASTNAME girls (GM, her daughters and my cousins), and I had never been invited (and strictly speaking I was the only GD with the actual LASTNAME!), I was very hurt by this. I have forgiven my GM, my brothers have not and I doubt they ever will.

My mom's reaction to this (and her personal issues with GM) was bitter and she talked badly about her, and she minimized contact. I think she handled it terribly, she should have been more objective with what she told us, and not projected her anger and resentment. I also agree with PP that if she had cut off contact completely it would've been worse on us. When I grew up I understood that part of the anger and resentment I felt came from my mom, not just the rejection I felt from GM and I felt she was partly to blame. No matter what, she was my GM and my relationship and feelings towards her should be completely independent form my mom's relationship and feelings towards her. I would've probably come to the same conclusion that I should best keep my distance, but without so much anger involved.

[ha98ed14]

My mom used to tell us that her mom disagreed with choices she made and couldn't accept that my mom loved my dad (mom is white, dad is black). I felt she was very honest with us about the situation, made sure to tell us that it had nothing to do with us, etc. As an adult looking back on the situation, I really appreciate her honesty. She made it a point to focus on our immediate family and the family that did not disown us. Ultimately, we did end up distancing from my mom's family in general because the interactions became awkward, but I don't think my brother or I were negatively affected by that.



I just wanted to say that I think you had a very wise mother. She was a woman ahead of her time. I am the product of an interfaith marriage. My mom's mom was WASP and could never accept that her daughter loved my dad who is Jewish. It never helped that my parents ended up getting divorced, altho the reasons had nothing to do with religion.

In the the end my mother's parents had nothing to do with us. I met them once when I was about 8 or 9. It only worked because my mom's dad (professor) was giving a lecture in our city. They lived in CA and we lived on the EC. When they died, my mother did not go to their funerals, but I know she was very, very sad. I felt nothing. The first one died when I was 17 and I remember thinking I should feel something, but how do you mourn the loss of someone you never knew?

In the end, my mother took us often to see my father's parents. They were people of many mitzvahs, and my mother thought the world of them, and I know they really loved us. When my dad effectively abandoned my mom with two little kids (2 & 5 y.o.), my grandparents stepped up and gave my mom some money. They thought what my dad did was pretty low, but they never said anything to him about it, which I don't blame them for. He was their son. But they did right by us (his kids). Because of them, I feel very, very connected and proud of my Jewish heritage.

Anyway, that was prob TMI, but IRT OP's situation, I would let it be what it is. I think you should you let the children have their grandparents' gifts. Or at least don't send them back. I think that will just drive the wedge deeper, and *if* DDs seek out a relationship with your in-laws as grown ups, it will make the animosity on the in-laws part more. I would let it be what it is, and follow DDs' lead. Have whatever contact the grandparents are willing to have (provided the interaction itself is is positive), but acknowledge to DDs that it is painful that they do not see their grandparents more. If DDs express a desire not to see them, then honor that. At some point, DDs may ask their grandparents why there is a strain in the relationship. I think one of the most important things you can say to DDs if they ask you about it is that you truly don't know, but that the girls should ask their grandparents. I think that is the only way that DDs will not have to "get over it" later in life, because they will have always known the truth of what it was.

[noodle]

That is completely f'd up.
I would also just write them off. I am not sure what to tell your DC but maybe something like your IL's are ill and it makes them do things that are crazy.

This.

I like an explanation that doesn't accidentally make your girls feel like they are in any way to blame for the grandparents' actions, and while it doesn't let the grandparents totally off the hook, it provides some possible insight.

Good luck. This situation sucks.

[Nyfeara]

My father's parents did this to us. They attended graduations for my cousins (we were the same age, at the same school) and we'd see them in the crowd but they would not wave or come to see us. They lived in our house for 6 mos at a time but were hardly ever there during the day, they just spent the night. My mother eventually gathered up their things and threw the black trash bags out on the front lawn & told my father to deal with it, she wasn't having them in her house ever again. This was when we were in high school.

Prior to that, my grandmother had forgotten my birthday b/c she was thinking about my cousin's b-day which was a month later than mine. They couldn't go to Disney with us b/c they had just been with the other grandkids several months ago - they lived within 30 mins of Disney and money was not an issue. There were tons of these situations as I grew up.

My mother always made it a point to tell us that there was nothing wrong with us, it wasn't our fault that our grandparents behaved that way. She also told us that it wasn't right and they were the ones that were missing out. She would always forward their gifts - which were always checks - to us. My mom never withheld their gifts, but made it clear that it was our decision what we wanted to do with them.

By the time we were in HS, I had asked my grandmother if we could just have lunch together instead of getting a check - she sent a check. So, when she showed up at my graduation party & tried to hand me a check, I gave it back to her and said, "You really don't get it". I had not cashed several years' worth of checks. Her response was that I would regret this and would want her money someday. Really? Then I never spoke to them again.

It's a shame, but there's not much you can do to change them. They're going to do/be what they are. My mom just always made sure that we understood it was not us or our fault, that they were wrong. I remember recognizing their 'bad behavior' long before I was in MS/HS.

My father is sort of following in their footsteps a bit. I don't hesitate to call him up and give him some sh** when he forgets DS's b-day. He lives about 12hrs away now, so in a way I think that makes it a little easier to deal with but I really don't want DS feeling or having to see/deal with what we did as kids.

Good luck - it's a rough situation to be in.

[California]

Your ILs are really confusing, aren't they! I think, even though you were trying to be accomodating, it sounds like your ILs were quietly festering over things you probably had no control over. In their mind maybe its your fault your kids have allergies. Who knows. They have their own rationale for what they are doing and it probably wouldn't make sense to any of us.

Are your own parents close to your kids? This is my take on this, from a non-therapist so it's just my point of view-- If it's possible, I would find some adopted grandparents. You mentioned doing 'random acts of kindness.' Maybe you could focus that on a few particular people. We have found extra "aunties and uncles" through our church, neighborhood and work. Ask your kids to write them cards. Spend time with them. In short, invest in relationships where the other person cares about your kids. That'll reinforce that your kids are worthy of attention, kindness and respect. In other words, that they are not the problem here- they are great. That's where I would put my energy.

Regarding the ILs, it sounds to me like you are very in tune with your kids. You are picking up on how they are feeling. You are honest and matter of fact about your ILs when you talk to your kids. I would just give it as little attention as possible. Not gloss over it, but not dwell on it, either. Honestly I think your kids will be fine because they've got you in their corner and you sound like a very loving mom.

[Globetrotter]

Wow, I have never understood how adults can involve children in their petty squabbles. It sounds like MIL and FIL never felt connected to you, for whatever reason. Why else would they disown you after such a silly incident, where (btw) you were well within your rights to be upset!! They sound like miserable people.

Growing up, one of our relatives cut us off and we were forbidden (by them, not my parents) to see their children, who were our only relatives in the country! My parents were heartbroken by this, but what do you do? We did meet on occasion as we were college age, but I was told not to mention this to any of the parents as she would get into trouble. They came around eventually and we are all in touch, but I will never forget that.

Some of my cousins are going through the same thing. Their wives cannot stand each other, so they are drifting apart. After my experience, I told them the adults can do what they want, but do NOT bring their kids into this (their kids get along okay) so they make an effort to let the girls meet with the dads or dropoff playdates.

I feel terrible for your girls. My parents are not perfect, but they do love us, and I would be devastated if they behaved like this! Counseling might be a good thing as it sounds like your dd is suffering from this and blaming herself. She has to understand it is not her fault! I'm sorry I don't know of any books or other resources, but I would encourage you to seek help. If nothing else, you could arrange to talk to a counselor (by yourself) to learn strategies to deal with this situation. I did that once as dd was going through a hard time but would not have agreed to go for counseling (due to shame over the issue).

[Globetrotter]

In short, invest in relationships where the other person cares about your kids. That'll reinforce that your kids are worthy of attention, kindness and respect. In other words, that they are not the problem here- they are great. That's where I would put my energy.



I like this approach!

[blue]

OP I have not read all the responses yet (so this may have been said). I was in a very similar situation with my father's parents growing up. One point I wanted to mention, after a while of my father's parents sending both my sister and I cards occasionally, something happened (lord only knows what) and they started to favor one of us over the other (and later switched who they favored). That hurt my sister and I more than my Dad's parents cutting off the adults, and caused some problems with my sister and I (better now that we are older).

I am not saying you should could off contact to avoid this. But, I wanted to mention this as something to watch out for. It is a difficult situation, and I wish you luck with deciding what is best for your family.

[Multimama]

I do think that like Multimama, my older dd has deep resentment for MIL and FIL. But it's covering a well of deep sadness. I can see it in her eyes when she talks about them. She's said that she hopes nothing good happens to them because they don't deserve it.

I think you've gotten some great advice here. I just wanted to add regarding my story that I did have some special moments with my grandparents. There was resentment and there was sadness, but there were also a few times that we connected, especially as a teenager and young adult, and I understood them as people, people who made some huge mistakes, but people with their own insecurities, pasts, troubled relationships with parents, feelings about children and so on. I am grateful for that understanding. I don't know why I wanted to add that except that I just think that good can come from staying in contact in the form of healing and understanding for your DDs. If not now then someday.

[dogmom]

I also disagree with the advice to refuse gifts and discouraging writing the grandparents. You need to be honest with your girls about the relationship your family has with the gparents but if you step in and cut off the communication that exists that can hurt things even more. If your girls want to stop writing them and don't want the gifts, fine but if it were me I wouldn't make that decision for them. I know it has been years but you never know, it is possible for big wounds to heal over time.

I think not accepting the gifts and stopping the girls from writing is a sign of bitterness and that is not something you want to teach your girls. Instead the goal should be to forgive the gparents for their choices and be at peace with the relationship even though it's not what it should or could be.


I'm not sure it is bitterness as much as a protective instinct. I would have cut off contact and gifts early on. By my way of thinking they are mentally ill, damaged, or just mean/evil. Why would you let your children have contact with that? Why feed into a delusion that by doing the exact right thing they can win back their grandparents' love? I mean, if they were 16 and that was the relationship between one of the daughters and a boyfriend would you let that continue? Probably not, because it would be damaging if not possibly dangerous. I see no reason to treat grandparents differently.

[kijip]

That is completely f'd up.
I would also just write them off. I am not sure what to tell your DC but maybe something like your IL's are ill and it makes them do things that are crazy.

:yeahthat:

You are better off without them. I have some absolutely obnoxious relatives (my mother's mother and my mother's two sisters). My older brother was my mom's mom fave and she hated me and my younger brother. She would send him video games and us dollar store dolls. All of them, especially my mom's mom were terrible to my mom, even as she was dying. Here are my survival tips:

-Don't feed the ducks. Ie: They are bat-**** crazy ducks and we do not feed them anything. We don't engage, respond, interact or tolerate the crazy in anyway. The crazy is NOT allowed emotional access to my children.

-Remember, daily if need be that you are WAY better off without the crazy. Bat-**** crazy ducks are dangerous, infested, nasty creatures and they will bite you if you ever gave them the chance.

-Yeah, people may change but the bat-**** crazy ducks do not. Do not waste your valuable energy over hoping, wishing or dreaming that it might be different. The crazy is not capable of different. The crazy is off the rails of life and it can not get back on.

-The crazy will get its due at some point but I do not need to be around to see it or cause that to happen. I have better things to do than try and reason, talk sense into or try to beat some sense into the crazy. The crash will happen, but don't lose sleep waiting for it to happen.

-Yes, the crazy may occasionally seem sympathetic or in need. And I hope that when they are, they can get help elsewhere. But no good can come of directing my efforts to helping them. It matters not that the crazy spawned my awesome mother, I owe them nothing because they gave her nothing positive, emotionally or otherwise.

In our case it was a little easier and clearer to pull the plug because my mom's mom is really quite dangerous, and not just emotionally, but I can't say that I have ever lost sleep over walking away. When my older son asks about my mom's family, we say that my mom was a very strong and dedicated woman whose family was not very nice to her. I liken it, as Eleckra suggests, to being ill. My older brother maintains contact. I used to change my phone number if she got her hands on it.

I will not be called bitter for refusing to let people harm me or my kids, emotionally or otherwise. On the contrary, I feel considerable peace with the situation and think I have a perspective that has helped me be a better, healthier person than I would otherwise be if I had contact and spent time seeking their approval and affection. I don't need affection from a toxic wasteland, and neither do my kids.

[ohsara430]

I'm not sure it is bitterness as much as a protective instinct. I would have cut off contact and gifts early on. By my way of thinking they are mentally ill, damaged, or just mean/evil. Why would you let your children have contact with that? Why feed into a delusion that by doing the exact right thing they can win back their grandparents' love? I mean, if they were 16 and that was the relationship between one of the daughters and a boyfriend would you let that continue? Probably not, because it would be damaging if not possibly dangerous. I see no reason to treat grandparents differently.

Well then you and I just think about it differently. Nothing OP said makes me think the gparents are mentally ill, damaged, evil. I'm not suggesting that the DC will win back any affection just that the contact they have is a relationship, albeit a lousy one.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges with the boyfriend analogy. These are grandparents, OPs ILs, her DH's parents so yes I do think they get treated differently than random teenage boyfriend. Even if OP did cut off all contact with the ILs, what would her DH think or feel? He might be ok with that now, but people get old, they get sick, what happens when/if he gets the call from BIL that his parents are near the end? Would you suggest the response be that he doesn't want to see them because of whatever unclear thing it is that happened years ago?

ETA: Took out mean, I do think they are being mean but not evil.

[weech]

I just wanted to say that I think you had a very wise mother. She was a woman ahead of her time.

Thank you :) I agree! :thumbsup:

[weech]

I'm not sure it is bitterness as much as a protective instinct. I would have cut off contact and gifts early on. By my way of thinking they are mentally ill, damaged, or just mean/evil. Why would you let your children have contact with that? Why feed into a delusion that by doing the exact right thing they can win back their grandparents' love? I mean, if they were 16 and that was the relationship between one of the daughters and a boyfriend would you let that continue? Probably not, because it would be damaging if not possibly dangerous. I see no reason to treat grandparents differently.


Well then you and I just think about it differently. Nothing OP said makes me think the gparents are mentally ill, damaged, mean or evil. I'm not suggesting that the DC will win back any affection just that the contact they have is a relationship, albeit a lousy one.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges with the boyfriend analogy. These are grandparents, OPs ILs, her DH's parents so yes I do think they get treated differently than random teenage boyfriend. Even if OP did cut off all contact with the ILs, what would her DH think or feel? He might be ok with that now, but people get old, they get sick, what happens when/if he gets the call from BIL that his parents are near the end? Would you suggest the response be that he doesn't want to see them because of whatever unclear thing it is that happened years ago?


Just wanted to say that I see where dogmom is coming from. If the gparents were responding to letters or having contact with the kids other than just sending presents, I'd be fine with them continuing their "relationship." But if the gparents are seriously receiving letters from their granddaughter and don't have the decency to reply, that's a kind of crazy I would not want my kids to be subjected to.

[4Myluvbugs]

First I want to send HUGE HUGS :hug::hug::hug: to OP. I've been watching this post carefully as I have a very similar situation with ILs. They are slightly less outright about it and do try to interact with our DCs, but they totally favor SIL's DS and slight our kids in favor of him constantly. It's been really tough on me and although the kids have asked questions regarding the favoritism, they don't fully "get it." I realize no matter what DH or I do/say to ILs, they aren't going to change but that doesn't make it hurt any less or make it any easier.

So sorry you're going through this-
J

[deborah_r]

I really can't wrap my brain around sending presents to kids but having no contact with them whatsoever? What is the point?

[firemama]

I am so sorry for what you are going through.

:hug: to you and I really hope you can get through this. If anything your kids are learning valuable life lessons and they will be stronger because of it.

[ohsara430]

OP, here are a few book recommendations:
Toxc Relationships http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Relationships-Regain-Power-Relationship/dp/0972731407/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1303244050&sr=8-9

Toxic In-laws http://www.amazon.com/Toxic--Laws-Strategies-Protecting-ebook/dp/B003WJRE4Q/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1303244050&sr=8-10

Toxic Relationships and How to Change Them (this one is from a Christian point of view) http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Relationships-How-Change-Them/dp/0470433698/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1303244050&sr=8-14

[JTsMom]

I had one set of great-aunts who obviously favored my siblings over me. Same kind of things mentioned above- great gifts for them, piece of junk for me, etc.

When my grandfather died, one of my aunts told me that once he had thrown them out of his house b/c of this issue, and told them they were no longer welcomed in his home. It was the first time I had ever heard that story, or that the issue had ever been addressed so openly with me. I can not tell you how much it meant to me that someone had done their best to try to shield me from that. Seriously, I still tear up every time I think about it.

OP, I am so sorry your IL's are so crazy. I just want to say that you are doing the right thing addressing the issue, and trying to protect your DC.

[Cuckoomamma]

It means so much to me that all of you have responded. Someone pointed out that dd1 in some ways sees this as being her fault. I'm sure that dd2 thinks so as welll because of the fact that it centered around their having allergies.

I don't for a minute think that's really the heart of it. BIL's children have now been diagnosed with allergies and haven't been disowned yet. I do think that they are ill and have something wrong with their hearts. The allergies were just the lightning rod at the moment. I just don't get how someone can be so cold and heartless with children.

Something else hit me that another poster mentioned. My in-laws have no other family in this country. Yet it seems like BIL's family is enough family for them.

Your words have all been very valuable to me. It's very reaffirming to hear
others say that this is craziness, both those of you with relationships that are nothing like this and from those of you who have experienced your own kind of craziness.

My family isn't much better. My mom is the only gp they have, and she has plenty of her own issues. The girls don't have any involved family who care about them besides dh and me. She needs more from us than she can really give. I've always felt that nothing is better than toxic, but then you start to feel badly that your children don't have much family at all. I think that's why I was so attached to the idea of making it work with dh's family.

To the poster who said that their situation is a little less drastic than ours, my only bit of wisdom in this has been to stand up for your children and not keep your mouth shut to avoid confrontation. The ILs would always bring out the icecream when the girls couldn't eat it and give it to all the cousins in front of them, etc. I would keep my mouth shut. MIL would try to feed dd things she couldn't eat all the time and I'd keep my mouth shut. I wish I'd spoken up when she was a baby and then there wouldn't have been as much pain for the girls.

Despite what I've said, I think I just keep hoping that they'll up and change who they are and do right by the girls and dh. I think I need to stop hoping, because that's what got us into trouble in the first place.

Thinking that the counseling may be the best thing even if it is just for me to consult someone on how to handle this. Thank you for the book references!

And just to be clear, they have avoided any contact with the girls. BIL invites us to parties with school firends and we're not invited to Christmas or Easter or communions so that the ILs can come. They live right down the road from BIL.

[gatorsmom]

I've been reading this thread in total awe of the mamas here and their strength to shield their kids from painful situations and in utter horror that family members can be so nasty to their kids and grandkids. It just boggles my mind.

I have very little experience of this and nothing first hand. My MIL told about how she took care of FIL's stepmother and his step sister who was dying of breast cancer. At some point in their relationship, FIL's stepmother disowned all her step kids. MIL said she continually attemped to reach out to her step MIL to no avail. My DH (who would be a step-grandchild) and his sister and brother had no real attachment to this lady since they said she was pure evil and would torture them whenever she babysat. This is probably why she only babysat a few times. My MIL said she read in the paper that step-MIL passed away recently. She hadn't actually spoken to her in years.

OP, Although I was tempted to say I'd cut off all contact with these people, I actually think limiting contact as much as possible is advisable and going out of your way to avoid them is a good idea. At the same time, I'd encourage your daughters to feel pity for these pathetic, mixed up people. Something in their lives has been broken for a long time for them to favor one son and his family over another. If your daughters want to try to reach out by sending letters or drawings or thank you notes for Xmas gifts, I would let them but I would explain that they shouldn't expect a response and not to be disapointed by that. People who love each other don't act this way normally. Something has to be really screwed up with these people to be acting this way. And I would continually emphasize this to your daughters. I would quite frankly, expect that nothing is going to change. These people are not going to magically decide to be in your daughters lives aagain. OP, I think it's important for YOU to understand that too. And to be ok with that. And if they did decide suddenly to be there for you, wouldnt' you be worried, waiting for the day they decide to shut out your daughters again, hurting them even worse this time?

As for your BIL and his family, in order to avoid the hurt, maybe you want to only have THEM over to your house. That way there is no expectation for your ILs to stop over and visit since they live close. There is no hope that they might see your car there and want to come by. There is no chance that your daughters will see toys that the ILs bought their other grandkids and feel bad. If you simply turn down invites to their house but invite them more often to yours, maybe you can avoid the IL discussions a bit more.

The fact is, YOU, your DH and your DDs make a perfect family. You are all there for each other. Any other family, friends and people who treat you well, care about you, and love you are all "family" too. You don't need toxic relatives in your lives to feel secure and loved. You need loving people in your lives. Feel pity for those pathetic losers who are missing out on the miracle that is your family, but dont' expect anything from them.

[Multimama]

You mention that your ILs don't have any other family in this country. Are they from another culture...perhaps (shot in the dark) somewhere in Asia like China? Is your BIL their oldest son? I am just guessing here, but listening to your story this might go quite a long way to explain their behavior.

There could be two major cultural things at play here. First, in many cultures the oldest son is traditionally the most favored, the one on whom the family focuses all their attention, and other sons are left to fend for themselves unless something happens to the oldest son. Second, there are some cultures (especially if they are from rural China, again don't mean to offend anyone with stereotypes, I know this is an overgeneralization) where daughters-in-law are not allowed to say anything against mothers-in-law. The mother-in-law is the head of the household. They put up with all kinds of stuff from their *own* mother-in-law with the promise that someday *they* would be the mother-in-law and no one would question them. It seems from your story that what set your MIL off was that you questioned what she was feeding your girls. A cultural background like this one might explain that rift.

I'm not saying that if they *are* from another culture that this excuses their behavior, but maybe it can help you to understand it and to explain it to your girls. Of course, they may be fifth generation Pennsylvanians for all I know! :)

[brgnmom]

OP, sorry you are going through this stressful situation w/ the ILs. It sucks having ILs that display unfair favoritism. We recently took a very long road trip (12+ hours roundtrip) to visit the ILs and my side of the family. Only my MIL and FIL made the effort to see my then-3-month old DD (we saw everyone on my side of the family fortunately), but my BILs and SIL & their kids did not even want to be introduced to our newborn. They declined and have still not met my DD. SIL even made a comment while I was pregnant w/ DD (first granddaughter on my DH's side of the family) that females are less valuable in their culture. :loveeyes: BILs and SIL will meet DD at BIL's wedding next month, but they have already declined attending a special dinner that my parents are hosting to celebrate DD.

Hugs! you're not alone.

[jenfromnj]

I'm so sorry you and your family are in this position. We have a similar situation here (the details are slightly different, but the end result is very similar), and I'm already stressing about how to explain/handle it with DS once he's old enough to understand how things are for him as opposed to his cousins (he just turned 2, so hopefully I have a little while, but I'm not sure).

It's a terrible feeling as a parent to clearly see that your child isn't treated fairly or as well as his cousins, especially when there's no logical explanation for it. I don't have any advice on how to handle it since I'm still struggling with that myself, I just wanted to send hugs and say that I feel your pain.

[TwinFoxes]

That is completely f'd up.
I would also just write them off. I am not sure what to tell your DC but maybe something like your IL's are ill and it makes them do things that are crazy.




-Yeah, people may change but the bat-**** crazy ducks do not. Do not waste your valuable energy over hoping, wishing or dreaming that it might be different. The crazy is not capable of different. The crazy is off the rails of life and it can not get back.

I completely agree. Sane people don't treat children this way. OP, I'm so sorry you, and your DCs are having to put up with this. I cut some toxic relatives out of my life, and I'm so glad my DCs won't ever have to put up with their manipulation and cruelty. (I made the break pre-kids) :hug: to you all.

[Uno-Mom]

I started reading this morning on my phone, so couldn't respond. Haven't read all the posts between then and now, so sorry if I'm repeating someone else!

First - empathy for you! That is so unfair.

Second - my opinion is to cut off all contact. I imagine it as a circle of safety and security around your marriage and children. If someone is consistently, cruely hurtful ... they shouldn't get past the gate. It's so painful they have to learn that way, but it would teach your children an immense amount about having boundaries. Even if someone is "family" they don't get automatic access if they are dangerous - KWIM?

But that is ONLY a stranger (my) opinion and I don't know you, your family or your history. So I don't feel real confident saying what's right or wrong for your situation.

[katydid1971]

:hug: to you and the girls. I have to agree with pp, I think your ILs are Bat *** crazy. I don't have an answer about what is the best way to handle them in the future but I do know that the best thing you can do for your girls is give the a safe, strong, loving family. Grandparents are great but really not that important, knowing they have you and your DH to come to for all their problems and that you will never turn your backs on them no matter what they do is so much more important. I think its important that your family culture from your generation on is loving and accepting and I think you will make sure it is. Sorry your poor DDs have to deal with the pain but hopefully as they get a little older they will realize how crazy their GP are and live happy lives with their wonderful loving parents.:hug:

[mctlaw]

You have already gotten great advice that you seem to be taking to heart. just wanted to add that I am sorry for this terrible situation. Your inlaws seem totally off the wall.

[Cuckoomamma]

To answer the question as to the cultural possibilities...MIL is in fact Asian, but not Chinese. FIL comes from a different non-Asian country. Dh is actually the older brother, which really doesn't make any sense since he's supposed to be the favored son according to birth order.

I do know that there is the cultural expectation that the MIL rules the roost. However, my MIL only met her MIL once, never lived with her as they've always lived in separate countries. And, SIL is not at all subserviant to MIL. She's very outspoken with her and clear about her boundaries and expectations. I have a much harder time asserting myself and really paid the price for doing so in this case. It was also FIL who flipped out and cut off the ties. Almost as if he couldn't handle the embarrassment that MIL had done something that caused a problem. The impression I got from SIL is that FIL is the one angry that dh "allowed" me to confront them/him on the phone and MIL won't cross him.

Not saying that there isn't a cultural part in all this, just that it doesn't seem to follow the typical cultural pattern. Maybe as a few of you have said, they're just crazy.

[Globetrotter]

I've always felt that nothing is better than toxic, but then you start to feel badly that your children don't have much family at all. I think that's why I was so attached to the idea of making it work with dh's family.

:grouphug: I find that sometimes friends become family, over time. That must be really hard since your family isn't super close, either.

[Multimama]

Not saying that there isn't a cultural part in all this, just that it doesn't seem to follow the typical cultural pattern. Maybe as a few of you have said, they're just crazy.

Yeah, this sounds like a very confusing situation. Obviously they've made some really bad choices and it would be completely understandable if you decided to cut off contact. I still struggle though with the idea of completely cutting off family, especially if as you say maybe MIL would like more contact, but feels she can't cross her husband. (Perhaps ties would be renewed and you would have a new understanding of the situation if he at some point died or was no longer head of the household.)

I think this situation is different than a bad high school boyfriend (someone else's example) because if you cut off a boyfriend the hope is that you will get a better boyfriend in the future, but you're stuck with your grandparents. If you were to cut them off, your girls would still have a relationship with them and still hurt from it because these are their grandparents and they already know them. Plus I think that especially a 10 year old should be involved in decisions like that. I think openness and honesty on your part is best, especially because they have contact with their cousins who still see them regularly and are going to figure out that it's not as simple as a blanket story that they are sick/bad/etc. as they enter adolescence.

But like I said in my first post, I'm a bit biased because I appreciate the relationship I had with my grandparents, as fraught as it was.

ETA: I really feel for you in this situation and wish you the best of luck in deciding what to do!

[kijip]

:grouphug: I find that sometimes friends become family, over time.

Absolutely. My friends are closer than spme in my family and I am ok with that. The way I see it is that unlike family, we chose each other. So that means something. I have friends close enough that we would based real estate decisions on the other.

[jacksmomtobe]

I think you should rely on friends to build a support/family type of network. Invest in people who care not your ILs. Just because people are related to you doesn't mean they deserve a relationship with you and your kids. Your ILs are not worthy. Why expose your kids to people who will hurt them. They have made this choice for you by their actions. Put your girls first. I agree being honest in a non negative way ie you can control how people act, it has nothing to do with your kids, etc. is your best way to go.

DH may also want to consider counseling if he hasn't had some already...how cannot it not hurt him to not receive love from his parents and see them hurt his kids.

Sorry you have to go through this situation!

[Ceepa]

That's tough. We have limited interaction with my ILs. Time spent around them is like doing hard time.

Life is too short and the world is filled with too many people to continually accommodate damaging people just because they're related. Instead we focus on other family and friends who support and nurture us and vice versa.

[dogmom]

Well then you and I just think about it differently. Nothing OP said makes me think the gparents are mentally ill, damaged, evil. I'm not suggesting that the DC will win back any affection just that the contact they have is a relationship, albeit a lousy one.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges with the boyfriend analogy. These are grandparents, OPs ILs, her DH's parents so yes I do think they get treated differently than random teenage boyfriend. Even if OP did cut off all contact with the ILs, what would her DH think or feel? He might be ok with that now, but people get old, they get sick, what happens when/if he gets the call from BIL that his parents are near the end? Would you suggest the response be that he doesn't want to see them because of whatever unclear thing it is that happened years ago?

ETA: Took out mean, I do think they are being mean but not evil.

Sorry, been out of town. I think the question of how to deal with the kids relationship to grandparents are very different that an adult needing to make peace with dying parents. I'm in now way suggested that he should no show up at their death bed or funeral. And yeah, and think there is something wrong, in my way of thinking, with someone in today's culture in country that so clearly favors one child over another (OP DH and BIL) to the point of excluding treating grandchildren differently. I'm sure they have some logic over it, mostly centered on their needs.

I don't think the whole boyfriend analogy is that far fetched, and I included it because people would not think that was OK. Just because people share DNA with you doesn't mean they get a pass. I realize some people think very differently about this. I also think it is a good point to think about because tolerating this kind of unequal behavior/treatment from those that are supposed to love and protect you can set children up for some unhealthy relationships. My guess is the risk with the grandparent relationships is much less than a parent. I can not count the number of friends I had in my life that got into serious bad relationships because of daddy/mommy issues. I also don't think a bigger biological family is necessary or means more happiness. I realize that I'm biased that way. Mother only child, father one half brother. DH only child. I have one sibling who will not have children.

The one think I have to add to the OP, my guess is you DH is probably in the end better off with the current situation than his brother is with his. My guess is all of that attention comes with a price that your DH does not have to pay.