Do People Actually Car Pool Anymore? Or Have Kids' Friends in the Car?

[sste]

So, we now absolutely need to buy a new car - - we have two kids, may have a third but #3 is far from clear or certain.

We are considering a subie outback or prius wagon when they come out. These options would be fine for two kids and *if* we had a third we could squeeze #3 in. But, no possibility of carpooling, take kids' friends on an outing, or even going someplace with a houseguest without taking two cars.

Option #2 is the honda odyssey. I feel a bit ridiculous driving a baby and three year old around in that beast! And I do prefer wagons, better fuel efficiency, easier parking, etc. But, the honda odyssey would def. fit three kids if we had a third PLUS any carpool kids or friends for outings. Or, if we had two kids it would still give me flexibility to cart around their little friends.

When I was growing up we did alot of carpooling and taking friends on outings (these were the days when it was socially acceptable to chuck the extra kids in the back cargo area of a station wagon, LOL!). Do people still do that? Should this be part of my decision-making?

[Green_Tea]

Yes, I think it should be a consideration unless you want to buy another car in short order. We frequently have friends over to our house or along for an outing like ice cream or lunch out. And we also frequently share driving responsibilities for things like girl scouts and birthday party transportation. Even in when the kids were younger, it was nice to be able to bring a friend home after preschool or do a favor for another mom.

I gave up my station wagon for an Odyssey when DD1 was in K. Never regretted it!

[mommytoC]

When we were expecting DD#2, I traded in my beloved Subaru Outback for a Toyota Sienna (XLE AWD). I LOVE it! It's so much easier getting kids in and out of carseats (and getting car seats installed), and I love having the extra room. We went to visit grandma over the weekend, and appreciated the "rear-seat entertainment system" and having an extra seat for MIL.

It seems like the older DD#1 gets, the more likely I am to be transporting an extra child or two, although it's also nice to be able to transport grandparents when they come to visit. My commute is very short, so the change in mileage (16/22 mpg for the current Toyota Sienna AWD vs. 22/29 for the current Subaru Outback (with the 2.5L, 4-cylinder engine)) made less of a difference to me than it would have otherwise. I'm very happy with my current "mom car", but will likely downsize to another Outback once I don't need the extra room.

[crl]

Every Friday a friend of mine picks up her two and my oldest after school and I meet them at the Y pool for open swim. I have transported other people's kids too, but not on such a regular basis. (I often walk another kid home with mine from after care, but obviously that's not carpooling.)

Catherine

[egoldber]

If youi plan to have 3 kids, life is a lot easier with a van. Especially when they are in carseats.

As for carpooling, we manage it with 2 sedans. A lot of this depends on 1) how many kids you plan to to transport and 2) will your younger kids be with you.

The times we carpool it is with one, or at most 2 other kids in boosters or NO carseat. Older DD (in 4th grade) has many friends who are plenty tall and big enough to ride without boosters.

We will also sometimes bring 2 cars if we need to. But if you need to also transport a younger child in an infant and/or convertible seat, well that severely limits your options without a van.

[niccig]

I know a lot of people with 2 kids and a wagon or smaller car. In fact, most people I know have this set up. There is some carpooling of only one extra child, or 2 when the person's 2nd child isn't with them. Or the other parent also drives to drop off. My friend has 2 kids and a minivan and she finds she's always driving at girl scouts as most other parents can't take so many extra children. Now that it costs $80 to fill up her van, she's not happy about always being the one to drive.

I will say that the parents with minivans are the ones we want to drive on school field trips as we can fit so many more kids in. One of our teachers commented that everyone used to have a minivan/big SUV, but now that's not the case and more people have to drive as can only take their child + one because of carseats. Big cars just cost so much more, so you really have to think about how often you will be taking extra people and if the extra cost of car price, gas etc is worth it?

We only have once child, but I can fit 3 kids in my car (CRV) as I got a Ridersafe Travel Vest that DS wears in the middle position, and I can get 2 boosters either side. We did have a car with a 3rd row, but it just seemed silly to me to be driving such a big car when we only filled it up a couple times a year.

[SpaceGal]

When it was just two kids for us, I had a Pontiac Vibe...it was tight then. When my brakes needed to be fixed, he decided to get a minivan. We didn't decide to have a third officially but I did sorta commit to driving a friend's son to and from school with my DS. Getting the minivan made it easier to pick up and not have to drop a kid off with my friend while I carted her soon to pre-k.

Now with gas prices we are careful about long distance trips and will drive DH's company car to save gas, but three in the back of a Fusion is TOUGH, it fits but it's TOUGH! When we get back to the minivan I'm SOOOOO HAPPY!!! It's roomy, I can take others with us, and no need to kill myself buckling in the kids or the car seats too.

I miss my fuel efficient and fun to drive Vibe, but I also enjoy and love having the minivan...it's big but ehh much more comfortable.

A month after the we got the minivan I found out I was pregnant with DC #3...so now there are three kids. :)

[BabbyO]

FWIW we are in a VERY similar situation. DS will be just over 2 when #2 is born and we know we need to upgrade to a bigger car. (DH can't fit in either car with 2 carseats). We currently own a 2004 Forester and a 2006 Corolla and I commute about 80 mi/day (in the corolla). We have decided we will probably get the Outback, to replace our Forester. Our thought process is that we know we'll be replacing the Corolla in a few years anyway because of the high mileage that gets put on it. At that point we can evaluate if we want to keep the Outback as the family vehicle, or get a mini-van. If we decide a Mini-van, then I'll get the Outback to commute in. If we decide the Outback is the right size for the family, we'll get a smaller sedan as my commuter car, probably. We feel that this will give us the option to determine how often, really, we'd be wanting to carpool, etc.

Not sure if you're in a position to be purchasing another new car in a few years time, but since we know we'll be at that place...it is our solution.

[DebbieJ]

I have a 7 year old and a 20 month old. Last week I had friends of my 7 year old in the car twice.

I drive an Ody and love it.

I also go on outings with my sister and her two kids, so there are times when I have 4 kids in the back. She drives an Ody too and we take turns driving.

[sste]

The problem is that I just don't know if a third child is going to be possible for us and I am not even 100% decided I want #3 - - with DD only seven months I am finding it hard to evaluate whether the family feels complete to me. I guess I am leaning toward #3 but possibly via IVF so it is far from a sure thing, esp. in my late thirties.

But, I really need to purchase a new car now.

Babbyo, unfortunately we have a civic that is only 5 years old and we really love the small commuter car and bigger family car/wagon set-up.


Thanks for all of the advice! Keep it coming - - I am intrigued by this carpooling question because I feel like that is what would determine which car in a "two maybe three kids" scenario. Also, I am pretty much only considering the Ody because it seems (??) that the mileage is very close to that of a subaru outback. I am probably too cheap to deal with gas prices on other van models.

[egoldber]

In the grand scheme of things, cars are not that expensive. I would buy the best vehicle to meet your needs now and not overthink the future. If you need to buy a new car in a few years, it will sting, but is it really a huge deal to you?

Also, if you have another child, are you really going to be carpooling on tons of outings anyway? That was the other factor for us. The reality of being a 2 parent WOH family with a school age child with a fair amount of homework who does most activities at after care and a younger child who does most activities at daycare, well, we just don't need to carpool that much.

[wellyes]

Buy the least you can get away with, IMO. Live simply. Odys are crazy expensive for hauling around 2 kids plus other uses a couple times a year.

[khalloc]

I have an '05 Outback and 2 kids. Love it, but there is NO CHANCE IN HELL of fitting a 3rd kid in there. At least not with a Radian and Marathon in there now. I am thinking about new cars and am looking at the Prius V also. I dont think its that much bigger than the Prius. My DH drives a 2010 Prius, but my main concern is gas mileage. I'll never get a minivan I dont think mostly because I want something that gets really good mileage. DH gets 55MPG with his Prius right now and I am so jealous. I dont think I would buy a gas guzzler on the off chance that I might drive around someone else's kid. I figure when everyone is in boosters I will be able to fit a 3rd kid in the middle. I also dont have any close friends with children that I might drive.

[SnuggleBuggles]

We bought a Mazda5 this year so we had the option of carpooling. We still have barely done it. I do like having the option and like the ability to offer. But, before that we had a Civic and no one but us could fit in there- we got along fine. We just didn't offer to carpool. No biggie. I certainly wouldn't buy a big old Odyssey in your situation. I wish Honda offered something like the Mazda5 b/c I am a Honda gal. The Mazda5 has been fine though and it is something to consider. It was no bigger length wise than my Civic and I feel like it is a nice happy medium car. Good price as well.

Beth

[Tondi G]

YES! I have a 4th grader and a K and we drive them and their friends now around when we have someone sleep over or go on an activity (bowling, movies etc.). We also carpool with our neighbors 2 children. I use the 3rd row of my SUV often! In your situation I would go for the Odyssey!

[Dcclerk]

I may be atypical but there is almost never a time when I don't have someone else's kid(s) with me. My view is, I will pile as many into mine as I have carseats for and make it so others don't need to drive. My friends do the same. I really enjoy the carpool aspect because you always learn new things from the conversations in the back. Sometimes I wish we had longer to drive! :)

[g-mama]

Yes, people definitely still carpool and have kids' friends in the car - a lot.

We carpool to sports practices and summer outings all the time. With three kids and a dh who is never home in time to help me out on weeknights, I have had to rely on the kindness of my boys' friends to help me out. I return the favor whenever I can, offering to have their child over to play or take them to a game on the weekend.

But when I do take their friend(s) somewhere, I almost always have my other two kids with me, as well. It's not all the time, but I am very glad to have the ability to take extra kids with me.

It also happens when I go with a friend and her two or three kids somewhere farther away and we all want to drive together.

It's hard to say what's right for you if you don't know if you'll have another child, but yes, carpooling is still alive and well! :p

[niccig]

Also, if you have another child, are you really going to be carpooling on tons of outings anyway? That was the other factor for us. The reality of being a 2 parent WOH family with a school age child with a fair amount of homework who does most activities at after care and a younger child who does most activities at daycare, well, we just don't need to carpool that much.

This is a good point. DS is in aftercare 3 afternoons a week. He has activities the other 2 afternoons, and only one of those is done with kids from his school. It's one day I could carpool with someone, and all the parents come as we sit at the coffee shop next door chatting while the kids have their class...even though we can carpool, we don't.

[MMMommy]

I like having the convenience of a third row. We have an SUV with a third row, albeit a crappy third row where only a kid would be comfortable sitting in it. An adult sitting in our third row would have their knees in their face. We do a lot of playdates, and having that third row allows me to pick up or drop off the third child for playdates. I like the option of having the third row. Instead of a mini van, would you consider a medium size SUV with a third row? It might not feel as overwhelming.

[mommytoC]

Also, I am pretty much only considering the Ody because it seems (??) that the mileage is very close to that of a subaru outback. I am probably too cheap to deal with gas prices on other van models.

The Ody's a great minivan. Had I not needed AWD (available with the Toyota Sienna, but not the Ody), I'm not sure which minivan I would have picked!

[sste]

Snugglebuggles i thought about the mazda 5 but the eliminated it based on the captain seats - - my understanding was that if we had kid #3 you can't really use that back jump seat on a regular basis and the second row has 2 individual seats rather than a bench. So, it is an odd car in that you can't fit three kids in it day to day - - the captains seats are beautiful but IMO they should have gone with a bench seat that would fit three car seats. I would buy it in a second if it had a bench style second row.

This split of opinion is fascinating! By way of disclosure I WOH which would cut down on carpooling but I will only be going into the office three days per week max once we move to the suburbs - - so I am probably midway on the spectrum of being around to carpool.

[egoldber]

I guess part of it for me was we had a van for 8 years and carpooled less than half a dozen times. For whatever reason, we were just never in that space of activities where people carpool. And for after school playdates, kids rode the bus or I walked to the school and got them.

Now that I work and older DD is in after care, she either rides the bus to the other kid's house on the rare occasion she has after school playdates or (more commonly) has weekend playdates. We have arranged our lives so that we don't need to carpool. She does things either at school or at after care. It just makes things easier for us to not have evening activities that require carpooling.

[s7714]

Yes, definitely. We've car pooled to zoos, the beach, etc. Also on preschool field trips when there is no bus to be had. Not to mention the times I've babysat nieces or nephews and needed to add their car seat into the mix.

I never felt like the Ody was way too big for only two kids. However, we like to go on road trips, so once you pack two kids, two adults and enough stuff for a couple weeks if it's a long trip, that van fills up fast! Now with three kids I sometimes wish for more space, LOL!

ETA: The extra space also comes in handy with friends or family are in town visiting and you all want to drive somewhere together.

[mommylamb]

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a minivan with 2 kids, but they are pretty expensive, so only get one if you really want it. We don't have one, and there are times when I wish we had one. Fortunately, my wonderful sister :heartbeat: :loveeyes: is letting us borrow hers for an upcoming trip we're taking with another family. From a practical perspective, we don't need one most of the time, and probably wouldn't even when we have a second child, but there are certainly times when I would want one (for example, when my MIL comes to visit for 3 weeks in October).

I know nothing about it, but what about the Kia Rondo? It supposedly can fit 7 http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Kia_Rondo/

[sste]

I guess part of it for me was we had a van for 8 years and carpooled less than half a dozen times. For whatever reason, we were just never in that space of activities where people carpool. And for after school playdates, kids rode the bus or I walked to the school and got them.

This is what I wonder about. I WANT to have the kind of life where I have a gaggle of kids of my own or lots of friends' kids onboard and carpooling. And nieces and nephews to cart around too. Bring it on! But, the reality is that we are a pretty busy professional couple with no family nearby and we don't presently have that type of friendship/community structure. The last could change when we move to the suburbs this summer but who knows? I wish my stupid car had lasted a few more years because I would have alot more info in two years about our kids' activities and also the number of kids. At present, I think I may be at risk of succumbing emotionally to a "build it and they will come mentality!"

I could try to buy a 2-3 year old subie outback with high mileage - - I only drive about 1k miles per year so I can take on a cheaper, higher mileage car so long as it is reliable, highly reliable. I don't have time to spend at the auto repair shp. If I found one affordably enough that would not foreclose the option of moving up to a van in 3 or 4 years . . .

[SnuggleBuggles]

No, it's really easy to have 3 kids in the Mazda5. We usually just use the one seat in the back row, kids can climb in through the trunck or between the console btw the captain chairs. I have a good number of friends with 3 kids that use it as their daily car. I like the captain chairs. :)

Beth

[g-mama]

I guess part of it for me was we had a van for 8 years and carpooled less than half a dozen times. For whatever reason, we were just never in that space of activities where people carpool.


I hardly ever took other people's kids places or had a need to carpool when my kids were younger, like yours must have been when you had a van. It's really in the last 2-3 years, and primarily for my oldest ds (10).

Also, if I only had two kids, there would be less of a need for juggling schedules b/c I could handle my own two on my own better and coordinate their activities not to coincide with the other's. With three doing after-school sports, it is extremely unlikely that they won't have overlapping schedules.

There are so many factors!

[KpbS]

Most of the families I know who drive mini vans have only 2 kids. I think it is perfectly ok to buy a larger car knowing that you might maximize the space in the future. You can always downsize later on--there is a great demand for Odysseys that are a few years old ;)

We have a Honda Pilot and have 3 squeezed into the middle seat right now. We have definitely appreciated the 3rd row for driving with friends, fieldtrips, and family vacations. The kids love riding with their cousins in the car.

[sarahsthreads]

I have an '05 Outback and 2 kids. Love it, but there is NO CHANCE IN HELL of fitting a 3rd kid in there.
:yeahthat:

Unless they've somehow turned the newer Outbacks into TARDIS-like objects, I wouldn't count on fitting more than two children in there unless the older two are in very tiny boosters. And even then...it would be like sardines.

It's honestly something that's at the back of my mind whenever we contemplate a third - we'd at a minimum need to upgrade one of our cars to something bigger. I'd love the extra space to carpool with grandparents or pick up other children, but I already want to cry every time I fill up the tank of my Outback. Can't justify a bigger, less fuel-efficient car for the few times a year I wish we had more seats!

Sarah :)

[niccig]

From a practical perspective, we don't need one most of the time, and probably wouldn't even when we have a second child, but there are certainly times when I would want one (for example, when my MIL comes to visit for 3 weeks in October).



We did have a bigger car with a 3rd row soon after DS was born and only used it once a year when family visited. We figured it was cheaper to go with the smaller car, and drive 2 cars on that rare visit when we're all together - and that's only on the weekends when DH is home too. It's rare that we have 3 visitors making us 6 to transport. And if do decide to go on a long road trip with them, we'll rent a minivan.

Sste - it is a difficult decision. I would opt for smaller car now, but buy knowing you might need to get a bigger car if you do decide on child number 3.

I like the Rav 4 or Mazda 5 with the 3rd rows - this would be a good car for carpooling 2 extra kids if you do decide to not have a 3rd child. If you do have another child, then get a minivan. I know more $$, but as you're not sure what your life will be, best to go with what you know now.

[sste]

Hmmm . . . it sounds like the mazda 5 is worth a much closer look.

I think the subie outbacks of the last few years were redesigned to be significantly wider so they can fit three across. However, while the overall safety rating is excellent, the latest year model records a safety finding of 20% chance of tipping in a crash.

I do think there is something to be said for buying what I need now and upgrading later if I need to.

What is tempting is that now the ody mileage is so competitive, esp with the awd subies. But, you all are right that the vehicle sticker price is surprisingly high for a honda/economy car! I am going to create a spreadsheet that includes the edmunds "total cost of car ownership" figure as well as the mpg and safety ratings and msrp for the outback, ody, mazda 5, and prius wagon.

[AnnieW625]

I am not sure what we are going to do in regards to carpooling, but at this time no we don't. We have two kids and we are done. Had I had twins instead of just DD2 we would've either sold DH's car and gotten a larger sedan or gotten a mini van, which IMHO doesn't make really good sense unless you have 2+ kids, but I do know a few families who have one and just have 1 kid. I would be happy with two sedans, but for us that wasn't going to work because we have a large dog so even with one kid I wanted a little more space.

I drive a Honda Pilot, and DH has an 01 Corolla, we will most likely replace the Corolla with another commuter sedan in a year or two. The car (and probably it's replacement) will be the back up carpool car if we ever car pool we'd use the car we have the space in and that I know will work best, the Pilot.

ETA: we looked at the Mazda 5 at the auto show last year and both DH and I said that had that car been out when we were looking for a car in 2006 it would've been a great alternative to the Pilot. DH still hasn't ruled it out completely for his next car (and DD1 loves the sliding doors), but we'll most likely still go with a sedan.

Also, Honda's model year end clearance is from mid to late July through Labor Day weekend and there are truly deals to be found so don't knock buying an Accord or even a Civic (which is equivalent in size to the 93 to 97 Accords) for a great price during that time. I got my Pilot for $6500 less than MSRP by buying during that time and going through the internet/fleet department at our dealer.

Filling up my Pilot has been right around $80, an Odyssey, Sienna, Highlander, etc. would be the same price too, and while a Prius is cheaper at the pump you do pay the "prius fee" as DH calls it because you have to pay more for the car in the first place so not really all that more economical unless you drive a lot. I'll be happy when I can fill up my car for $60 again. I think in 2008 I paid $90 to fill it up (I was this close to selling and then gas prices went down again).

[niccig]

I'd love the extra space to carpool with grandparents or pick up other children, but I already want to cry every time I fill up the tank of my Outback. Can't justify a bigger, less fuel-efficient car for the few times a year I wish we had more seats!

Sarah :)

I hear you on that..it costs me nearly $60 to fill up my CRV. A friend has a Acura MDX and she said it was over $80 to fill her tank. Grant gas is about $4.30 a gallon for the cheapest stuff.

[jjordan]

I think it sort of depends on how long you intend to keep the car. If you're thinking this is a 10+ year car, then I'd be more inclined to go with the minivan. If you're thinking maybe 3-5 years, then go for a smaller car (but one that *can* fit 3 in the back if you need).

FYI an outback is not a great choice for 3 in car seats - it has a relatively small back seat. A family sedan (camry, accord, altima etc) is a much better bet if you want to have the option of having 3 kids in the back.

[o_mom]

I think as PPs have said, with two it's not a necessity, for many reasons (only two schedules to coordinate, don't need the space daily, etc.), with three, I would really lean toward a van, but I like to be able to put space between my kids for my own sanity.

One thing to think about is that I know for many of my friends that only have a sedan with two kids, it's not just that they can't take other kids in carpool, but they feel like they cannot ask other parents to take their kids because they cannot reciprocate. For example, if I need to, I can ask one of of the scout parents we know to take DS1 along to an event if I'm in a bind because I know that the next event, I can take their DS. It is much harder to ask someone for that kind of help if you can't reciprocate. I will say that it really didn't come into play, though, until we hit school age - K and 1st - where they are able to do events without a parent there.

[Twoboos]

As my kids have gotten older I've found more of a need for carpooling, or picking up DDs/friends after school for playdates (they are not allowed to switch buses to go to a friend's house).

It was a total PITA to squeeze in one extra seat into our '02 Highlander. (Not to mention if I ever had to ride between the seats there was not enough space for my shoulders!) We just got a 2011 Highlander Hybrid and I am *IN LOVE* with it, probably using the 3rd row this week for a playdate! So I would say plan for needed some extra space in the future.

[Globetrotter]

We carpool every day to school, so my van is usually full (I only have two kids), plus we carpool for girl scouts, field trips, and so on. I also have a lot of kids over for the weekend and can't imagine not being able to take them around. We carpool so much that I bought enough boosters to fill all five seats! It was just easier that way..

I really think it depends on your lifestyle and kid's activities, but our lifestyle definitely calls for a 7 seater!

[♥ms.pacman♥]

i have never carpooled.though i have a 16mo and a 2mo (not planning on a 3rd, at least right now) and i absolutely love our '10 Ody. i wouldn't give it up for anything. it does not seem overkill at all (at least to me) for just 2 kids. it is really useful to have becuase with 2 kids in stroller and carseats it's great to have so much space. we don't carpool but when grandpa/grandma visit at least we don't have to go in separate cars.

[belovedgandp]

Sste - it is a difficult decision. I would opt for smaller car now, but buy knowing you might need to get a bigger car if you do decide on child number 3.

I like the Rav 4 or Mazda 5 with the 3rd rows - this would be a good car for carpooling 2 extra kids if you do decide to not have a 3rd child. If you do have another child, then get a minivan. I know more $$, but as you're not sure what your life will be, best to go with what you know now.

Exactly what I was going to say. I did buy the minivan when I had a 3 1/2 YO and infant, but I was 99% confident that baby #3 was in our future at that time. The decision was forced when our primary family car was in an accident. My plan was to wait until I actually had #3 before going bigger.

Once I had the van though; we used it. My parents are local and I'm a SAHM, so I was always adding extra kids and adults from the beginning. I always owned extra HBB to make it easier. Once my oldest hit elementary school and more activities I'm finding us carpooling even more.

[WatchingThemGrow]

We keep an extra carseat in our van almost all the time. And every week, it gets used at LEAST twice, usually quite randomly. Here's how:
1. during preschool, a friend and her 2 DC jumped in and went (with my 2 DSs) to the childrens museum 35 minutes away. 2. again, during preschool hours, DS1 wanted to see his friend who is moving, so we took the boy and his mama to another museum 25 min. away and dropped her off at her dr's appt on the way back. The dad met her at the appt. and gave her a ride home. 3. it was raining and a mom from preschool w/o a car called to see if I could drop her DS off. It was fun to see them both! 4. A friend's DD is transitioning from nanny to daycare, and I kept the little girl 2 days during the week (for pay). It enabled me to get my DD to/from preschool easily b/c there's no installing/uninstalling seats. Interestingly, they were all *okay* with the various slot heights in the seats because everyone is between 2 and 4yo.

So...with 2 we thought the CR-V was a great vehicle for us. Fourteen days after having #3, we sold it and bought the van. If you want to buy one brand new car - just get an Odyssey now. If you want to buy something to tide you over, then get one of the smaller vehicles. IME, finding a used Ody with decent mileage and the options we wanted was nearly impossible. People seem to buy them new, with the options they want and keep them 7ish years. Part of me is glad I got the newest model with all the newest options to last me for the longterm because I :heartbeat: things like the trunk button that wasn't available on the model I would have bought when #2 was born.

Another reason I see some moms doing lots of carpooling is for stuff like private schools and DC at different schools/preschools.

If you are a WOTH mom and won't need to be shuffling little people 9-5, I would see a lot less of a need for a van. 4yo preschool is when it seems a lot of the "will you pick up my kid for a playdate" kind of stuff starts.

[niccig]

we don't carpool but when grandpa/grandma visit at least we don't have to go in separate cars.

I must admit I don't understand this. Is it really that much more difficult to take an extra car when grandparents visit? If they are there every week, Ok, but on the once every couple of months visit? And in our case, it's a once a year visit. Maybe because we grew up with always having to take an extra car, it doesn't seem like such an issue to me to go in convey to a local outing.

We're going on a 7 hour drive with friends, they have a minivan and we could all fit, but it would mean me being squished between 2 car seats in the 3rd row. The other mother won't hear of it, and wants us to bring our Prius. I don't mind, 7 hours squished is less than I have to do when I fly to Australia to see my parents, and we're going to have frequent stops. But she won't hear of it. She also said we'll have too much luggage - but it's only a 3 day trip, so I don't see how we'll have too much. So they have a minivan, but we might still take 2 cars for 7 people.

We have friends with 3 kids in an Audi wagon and they drive 10 hours to see family every couple of months. She said they load up the roof racks, kids in the back, and they just deal for the trip. They didn't want the bigger car cost for only these trips.

I do think it depends on your lifestyle - how many times will you be taking extra people, and whether you're OK with being squished when you do have longer trips/more people to take.

[MontrealMum]

If fuel efficiency is important to you, I wouldn't consider the Subie Outback. They're heavy and consume a lot of gas (I know, we have one :) ) In fact, since DH drives so much more than I do we have now switched cars and he's driving my old Corolla while I putter around in the Subie mostly in our 'hood. Although, we do have the p-zev one which is partial zero emission. If you're looking for fuel efficient and a wagon I'd consider a VW - either a Passat or a Jetta. Here in Canada they both come in diesel, though I don't know if they both do in the US.

Getting two carseats into the Outback isn't a walk in the park either, though it is possible. I'm not sure we could do 3, but I guess it depends on the seats. Often when we need to take another kid we use the Toyota because it's easier to pop an extra seat in and out of that one w/o uninstalling and moving DS' seat.

I know a number of families with 2 kids and a minivan, though I think they bought them for the "potential" of having a 3rd kid, not because they're necessary with 2.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I must admit I don't understand this. Is it really that much more difficult to take an extra car when grandparents visit? If they are there every week, Ok, but on the once every couple of months visit? Maybe because we grew up with always having to take an extra car, it doesn't seem like such an issue to me to go in convey to a local outing.

We're going on a 7 hour drive with friends, they have a minivan and we could all fit, but it would mean me being squished between 2 car seats in the 3rd row. The other mother won't hear of it, and wants us to bring our Prius. I don't mind, 7 hours squished is less than I have to do when I fly to Australia to see my parents, and we're going to have frequent stops. But she won't hear of it. She also said we'll have too much luggage - but it's only a 3 day trip, so I don't see how we'll have too much.

We have friends with 3 kids in an Audi wagon and they drive 10 hours to see family every couple of months. She said they load up the roof racks, kids in the back, and they just deal for the trip. They didn't want the bigger car cost for only these trips.

Also, it was always kind of nice to have the option of 2 cars in case someone needed to leave/ arrive late for some reason.

Beth

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I must admit I don't understand this. Is it really that much more difficult to take an extra car when grandparents visit? If they are there every week, Ok, but on the once every couple of months visit? And in our case, it's a once a year visit. Maybe because we grew up with always having to take an extra car, it doesn't seem like such an issue to me to go in convey to a local outing.



for us, both sets of GPs live out of town so they don't know our area very well. so there were several instances when we wanted to go out to brunch or to dinner ( before we got the minivan) where we had to go in separate cars (DS, DH and me in our sedan, and GPs in another car) and FIL or my dad got totally lost driving and was like 45 mins-1 hr late. also, in cases where we went to church 9which is usulaly sooo crowded , it's hard to find a parking space and once you get inside it's impossible to find each other)..with a van DH could just drop us all off, everyone gets out and there's only 1 parking space to find. my MIL has RA and can't walk very much, so that saves a parking space and everyone trying to find each other in the church. oh and my mom doesn't drive outside her hometown, so when my mom visits on her own and we're ever wanting to go somewhere with her it would be pretty cramped inside our sedan with the 2 carseats.

[crl]

For us, I am not at all comfortable having my 75 year old parents--who live in a smallish town in the Midwest--drive in San Francisco. Dh is often completely unavailable. (ETA,, which means we could not have him drive one car and me drive the other) so we would not be able to go anywhere in my Forester or in the Prius we previously owned (one kid in booster, one kid in rear facing seat, plus three adults do not fit in those cars). Now, renting a minivan would cover that situation more cheaply than buying (we bought a Ford Flex). But we had other reasons for wanting something bigger.

Catherine

[niccig]

for us, both sets of GPs live out of town so they don't know our area very well. so there were several instances when we wanted to go out to brunch or to dinner ( before we got the minivan) where we had to go in separate cars (DS, DH and me in our sedan, and GPs in another car) and FIL or my dad got totally lost driving and was like 45 mins-1 hr late. also, in cases where we went to church 9which is usulaly sooo crowded , it's hard to find a parking space and once you get inside it's impossible to find each other)..with a van DH could just drop us all off, everyone gets out and there's only 1 parking space to find. my MIL has RA and can't walk very much, so that saves a parking space and everyone trying to find each other in the church. oh and my mom doesn't drive outside her hometown, so when my mom visits on her own and we're ever wanting to go somewhere with her it would be pretty cramped inside our sedan with the 2 carseats.

Our parents don't drive here, so when we have to split up, one of us is driving each car. It's laughable to think of my parents driving here at all actually - wrong side of the road and all that.

We have the same issues with parking, drive time, crowed places, but we just don't have visitors enough for 2 cars to be a hassle.

Totally off track, but does your MIL have a disabled hang tag? FIL does and he brings the hang tag when he visits us - but even in Los Angeles that doesn't guarantee a parking spot. It's nice when there is a spot though.

[khalloc]

My Subaru Outback is the 3.0 engine variety. It gets about 18-19 MPG. Thats mostly around town driving. Its costing me about $60/week in gas. Even though the new model is wider, I cant see how it would be comfortable for 3-across in the back seat. Its tight back there with 2 car seats.

[shishamo]

I have three kids, all in elementary school and I do not know how I can survive without carpooling. Seriously. Wait till all your kids are school age and starts doing their own activities, playdates, etc. If two out of your three kids have a playdate, that's already 5 kids right there.

BUT, I had a sedan till my youngest was one and it was fine. Really it picks up once you start preschool and really picks up once you start elementary.

[sste]

Thanks Khalloc. I may have to give up my subie obsession - - the thing for me is that I am a very nervous driver and the heft and awd and lowness of the subie make me feel so secure. We tend to live in fairly walk-able areas so at present I get by on about 2-3 tanks of gas per month - - but I do foresee that increasingly moderately as now I have kid #2 and so a second set of appointments, classes, etc.

Subie, why oh why can't you market a hybrid! With three-across capacity.

I am also annoyed that the prius wagon isn't on the market yet. I need this car soon - - not only did my car depower again but now the locks are broken and sticking so that I had to climb over the kids in their car seats and into the wagon area, perch on my bob double, manually mess with the lock, hop out the back, get the stroller out, and then go get the kids into the stroller.

[niccig]

I am also annoyed that the prius wagon isn't on the market yet. I need this car soon - -

Even it if was here, there will be a wait list for it, or you'll have to pay a lot over sticker. I heard on the radio last week, that they can't get enough current Prius cars because demand is high and production issues due to the earthquake in Japan. The market for 2nd hand Prius has increased, and one dealer interviewed said that he's paying a bonus to his staff if they bring in a 2nd hand prius found elsewhere (autotrader, Craigslist) to then sell as people are wanting used if can't get into a new car. I told DH maybe we should sell his 2004 Prius and move him into a newer car sooner than we thought.

Maybe look at the clean diesel wagons. DH is considering a clean diesel for next car.

Also consider your parking situation. We have to do a lot of street parking and it can be more difficult when we had our larger car. Spaces in unmetered side streets were often just a little too short. But not everyone has to do street parking.

[Pennylane]

I love being able to carpool my dc's friends! Makes having a minivan totally worth it to me.

Ann

[Asianmommy]

We carpool at least once a week, to summer camp, to ballet, to birthday parties, etc. Whenever we have friends over for a playdate after school, I have 4 kids in my car, and none of them are old enough to sit in the front seat. We often pick up the Grandparents and drive them around, and I can even throw my bike in the trunk and meet my friend at the park to bike, so having the minivan is very useful.

[AnnieW625]

Thanks Khalloc. I may have to give up my subie obsession - - the thing for me is that I am a very nervous driver and the heft and awd and lowness of the subie make me feel so secure. We tend to live in fairly walk-able areas so at present I get by on about 2-3 tanks of gas per month - - but I do foresee that increasingly moderately as now I have kid #2 and so a second set of appointments, classes, etc.

Subie, why oh why can't you market a hybrid! With three-across capacity.

Gas mileage comparable to the Pilot is what killed my Subaru obsession prior to having DD1 also. My first car was a Subaru wagon and I loved that car, but the gas mileage of the Outback, and the fact that I didn't want to have to be married to Subaru dealer to get my car worked on (we learned our lesson with my car and took it to a mechanic who didn't know what he was doing in regards to repairing Subarus) steered me away from Subaru. (I love that "You'll always love your first Subaru" commercial that's on right now)

What about the Acura TSX wagon? Again saw it at the car show (just looked it wasn't opened up) and it looked really nice, and I believe it should get mid to high 20s mileage wise. Not sure if it's going to happen anytime soon but VW is putting the TDI in the Passat sedan so maybe there is hope that they'll bring back the Passat wagon and put the TDI in that too. More fuel efficient (and not necessarily hybrids) are needed in this world:).

[randomkid]

I know you have gotten a lot of replies and I have not read them all, but I will throw in my .02.

I only have one DD and I drive a minivan. This only happened because when I was pg with her, my parents essentially gave us their old (1996!) van. I have two stepdaughters who were 12 and 14 when DD was born, so the van was perfect for the 5 of us. When DD was 3yo, we decided it was time for a new vehicle. My DSDs were older and DSD1 had her own car so they rarely rode/ride with us, but I loved the extra room in the van so much that we got a new one. We chose the Sienna and I love it. Sometimes I feel silly just driving DD around in it, but I mostly drive around town and can go 2 weeks on one tank of gas. I have a friend who went to a minivan after having her second because they felt too cramped in their other cars.

To address the carpooling question: I never carpooled until this year, DD is in K. I have taken friends of hers to school when parents had early work meetings and driven for every field trip. The first field trip we went on, I drove the teacher and 4 kids, including DD. Most of them ride in boosters, so getting everyone in quickly is no problem. I know there will be some carpooling this summer when we are all working out our summer camp plans. Most of the Moms I am friends with WOH. I am also able to take coolers and extra cargo if needed.

I'd think about future plans if you are like us and keep vehicles for a long time. When your kids are in elementary school, you will likely haul other kids and their stuff. To me, a van is not a necessity, but a convenience. If you even THINK you might have #3, I'd definitely go for the van. Another friend of mine was completely anti-minivan until she had her 3rd. She is now a convert (and had even been talking about a van when she still just had 2).

[SnuggleBuggles]

I don't know if I would love 3 across. It would be ok when they were in convertible carseats but I think buckling boosters when the seats are all snug together would be rough.

Is it some models of Subarus that require 93 octane gas or is that VWs? Just something to keep in mind with whatever car you go with!

Beth

[AnnieW625]

Is it some models of Subarus that require 93 octane gas or is that VWs? Just something to keep in mind with whatever car you go with!

Beth

Subarus at least my 88 wagon required mid grade (91) or higher octane or they would get engine ping, the car still ran but it made an annoying ping noise. Never owned a VW but I believe they are okay on regular unless you have a TDI.

[Roni]

I went from a Subaru Outback to a Honda Pilot. DH drove the Pilot when we first got it, but I got to steal it from him when I was carpooling to camp. We mostly keep the back seats folded down, but it's nice to have the option. Plus, I ended up having a third baby, so I'm really glad we got the Pilot. We have friends with only 2 and an Odyssey, & they really like it. I needed the 4 wheel drive and extra ground clearance of an SUV, though. Around here, it sems like everyone has mini-vans or SUV's (or trucks). I'm not sure if that will change if the price of gas goes up more. I don't think it will--people will just drive less.

I did love the Subaru, as far as driving it went. It just got too small for us.

[o_mom]

Subarus at least my 88 wagon required mid grade (91) or higher octane or they would get engine ping, the car still ran but it made an annoying ping noise. Never owned a VW but I believe they are okay on regular unless you have a TDI.

My '99 Subaru did not require higher octane, but DH's 2001.5 Passat did. It's going to vary by make and model, though.

[94bruin]

We first got our Odyssey right before DD2 was born, so we only had one child at the time (though DD2 was born 3 mos later.) So, I was driving around a 3 year old by herself in a minivan for 3 months until DD2 was born.


Prior to Kindergarten, I never toted around other kids. However, since DD1 has started Kindergarten this year, I've picked up some kids from school for playdates. I've also driven on one field trip. Even though I WOH part-time, the minivan gets a lot of use on my days off. Plus my college roommate lives in the same neighborhood. I drop DD2 at her house 2x/week on my working days. They carpool to school together (not my van, but their van instead.) We also try to carpool for summer camps.


I read a previous post about working parents worried about not being able to reciprocate picking up other kids for playdates - the parents at DD's school are totally understanding of the fact that I work, and my time for hosting playdates is limited.

Love our minivan, though there are days if I'm only toting around DD1, I'd love a smaller car. I think it's just part of the price of driving around young children and their friends. I am fortunate that my mom lets me borrow her hybrid Altima to drive around on occasion. Makes me feel like I'm making up for driving around a minivan, lol!



As an aside, before we had kids, we stuck with smaller cars, while a lot of people were into getting SUVs for those few trips to the snow. We thought that would be a waste of money to own an SUV, which is NOT needed in the Bay Area for only a few weekend trips to the snow. We decided that it would be more economical to rent an SUV for our trips. Worked out well. If your situation is such that you don't think you'll use or need a minivan, if there are situations that arise where you sill need a minivan, you can always rent (ie grandparents visiting or road trips.)

In the end I think only you can decide if you *really* need a minivan. Every family situation is different. In ours, it's pretty much a necessity.

[egoldber]

I hardly ever took other people's kids places or had a need to carpool when my kids were younger, like yours must have been when you had a van. It's really in the last 2-3 years, and primarily for my oldest ds (10).

I dunno. I had it through about half of third grade with older DD. It was only relatively recently I downgraded to a sedan when I had an "incident" with my van. :o

I think having more widely spaced kids makes it easier too. If I had three littles in convertible carseats, yeah a van is much more necessary.

Like I say, our lives are just such that while a van would be convenient occasionally, I can't see buying one now. I can put 2 older kids in my car besides older DD if I need to, but not a kid in a convertible seat.

[tiapam]

they don't make it anymore but i love my '05 mazda mpv. i was in a similar situation when we bought it in 2008. it is a 7 passenger van that is about a foot shorter than the honda and toyota vans (prob '08 models anyway) and about 6 inches narrower. it is a great city van IMO. fits easier in skinny or small parking spots and still has the sliding doors. i use the extra passenger seats enough that it was worth it. if you can find one with low miles i think it would be a good compromise. i was in a sedan last week and felt positively claustrophobic! i don't know if i will be able to go back to a regular car!

dh researched the mpv back in 2008 when we bought ours used and determined that the last two years ('05 and '06) were the ones to buy. there are not many 2006s because they did not make a full year's worth so they are hard to find.

[bubbaray]

I traded in my 2005 Ody last year for a RAV4. I loved my Ody, I :heartbeat: my RAV4. I have the V6 and it is sooo overpowered and fun to drive, LOL. The 6 is not for everyone for this reason.

BUT, the RAV4, even with 3rd row, is NOT a vehicle you want to plan on regularly using for more than 2 children. Trust me on this. A CR-V would be a better choice if you are thinking 3 children.

I love that I can't be expected to cart other people's children around. I love love love that. Carpooling is not common in our area, but even so, people seem to expect that you will with a van.

I also LOVE that I don't have to transport the ILs. I can not tell you how valuable that is to me, LOL. 3 across is not possible in the RAV4, oh darn, the ILs can't fit. Guess they have to go in DH's truck....

[justlearning]

In our area, some schools do not offer buses so friends and I do carpool for the 10-minute drive to school everyday. I regularly drive 5 kids in our Sienna, even though only 2 are my own. I also drive my sons' friends to church or other activities (we trade off), so it's very nice to be able to easily transport them.

But whether or not you will carpool in the future depends on a number of factors, most importantly how close you live to your friends. (I live within 2 minutes of most of my friends.) But even if I didn't carpool as much as I do, I think I'd still want to have a minivan because it's SO nice on trips to be able to take a lot or just when I make Costco trips, etc. BTW, I've had mine for nearly 8 years--back when my oldest was just a few months old-and I never felt weird driving it with just one baby at that time.

[khalloc]

Thanks Khalloc. I may have to give up my subie obsession - - the thing for me is that I am a very nervous driver and the heft and awd and lowness of the subie make me feel so secure. We tend to live in fairly walk-able areas so at present I get by on about 2-3 tanks of gas per month - - but I do foresee that increasingly moderately as now I have kid #2 and so a second set of appointments, classes, etc.

Subie, why oh why can't you market a hybrid! With three-across capacity.

I am also annoyed that the prius wagon isn't on the market yet. I need this car soon - - not only did my car depower again but now the locks are broken and sticking so that I had to climb over the kids in their car seats and into the wagon area, perch on my bob double, manually mess with the lock, hop out the back, get the stroller out, and then go get the kids into the stroller.

I love my Subaru. It feels like a tank when driving. I am not a nervous driver, but it does make me feel safer especially in the snow. And living in Vermont I do alot of snowy driving. But the gas mileage is killing me. I probably drive alot though. Like 30 miles a day round trip? I guess I should measure that. My DH really wants to trade in my car and get another Prius. But I am not so sure. I do love his car's (Prius) gas mileage. But I dont know if I will be happy with the slowness of it. LOL. My Subaru has some power since it has the H6 engine. I am also worried about the smallness of the Prius. I think about 98% of the time it would be perfectly fine. But when we take longer trips and need to pack alot I would be wishing for a bigger car. That would only be like 3-4 times a year though. My Subaru is paid off and I am thinking I will wait a year or 2 and check out the Prius V when it comes out and then decide.

[egoldber]

But when we take longer trips and need to pack alot I would be wishing for a bigger car.

We added a roof rack to my Jetta wagon and that solves all our car trip space issues.

[MelissaTC]

In terms of carpooling, we don't do it on a daily basis. But I have carted 3 additional kids in my car on outings, playdates, etc... I am glad I have the space. I don't drive a minivan anymore but we do have a 6 passenger crossover. We have my parents here every couple of months and we also gave two dogs that need carting.