Attn Lawyers: can we talk billable hours?

[Kira's Mommy]

What are your targets?

I'm in a Big Law firm in Toronto. Our *unofficial* targets are 1600 for tax associates, 1800 for everyone else.

I'm a 3rd year in tax. The group is a bit overstaffed and I'll be lucky if I hit 1400 this year.

I hear very conflicting information on how things are like in other firms/places/practice areas. If people are willing to share, I'd really appreciate it.

[indigo99]

Ugh. My lawyer charged me for 30 minutes after a 3 minute phone conversation, half of which was him asking about my child. On the invoice it said phone call and reviewing file. Why do I have to pay him to review my file every time he has anything to do with my case? Is it my fault he has a bad memory?

[bubbaray]

Ugh. My lawyer charged me for 30 minutes after a 3 minute phone conversation, half of which was him asking about my child. On the invoice it said phone call and reviewing file. Why do I have to pay him to review my file every time he has anything to do with my case? Is it my fault he has a bad memory?


Every time a lawyer thinks about a file (not just when they actually do work on a file), they can bill for it. Its not about memory, its about what lawyers do -- they consider the best course of action for a client and then put that plan into action (phone call, write letter, draft pleadings, whatever).

Lots of firms have minimum billing increments (ie., they won't bill you for 5 minutes if the smallest increment is 10 minutes or whatever). As long as that is discussed at the time of retainer, there is nothing wrong with that.

[mctlaw]

My current firm, which is in house trial insurance defense counsel (I make this distinction because it is known that in house counsel scrutinizes the quality of the hours a little less closely), requires 1920 hours per year.

I hear most "biglaw" around here requires at least 2000 hours.

My former firm in FL, a traditional outside counsel insurance defense law firm, but boutique size, required 1800 a year. I miss that firm immensely :love5:. They were all family oriented people & I would work there over my current job any day given a choice.

[bubbaray]

The best way to get this info is at Greedy associates. They have a Canadian forum.

1600 sounds low to me, but I'm not in tax and not at the associate level. When I was a third year call, my target was closer to 2000 and I was doing commercial litigation. I'm not sure what the solicitors targets were. Most junior litigators here (Vancouver) seem to have a billable target of 1800 - 2400.

If you aren't going to make your target, I would have a discussion with your partner sooner rather than later. Maybe you need to tweak your billings or you are missing something. Also, how is rainmaking rewarded at your firm? Do you have a lot of write-downs? If so, why??

The only time I was under my target as a junior was if my partner was writing down a lot of my work and that needs to be dealt with or you won't last long at that firm.

GL!

[g-mama]

My dh is an attorney for a big firm in the DC area. He used to bill 2300-2400 hours a year, but it's steadily gone downhill in recent years. Now he bills aobut 1800 hours a year.

That doesn't mean he works that much less. Since becoming a partner, he has to a lot more non-billable responsibilities that he didn't as an associate.

[indigo99]

Sorry. Wasn't trying to hijack. I'm just still annoyed over that. The reason for the phone call was that he wanted to ask me if he should still show up at our hearing since he hadn't heard from me in a few weeks. The reason he hadn't heard from me is because I can't afford to pay for 30 minutes just to "check in" every few weeks when nothing is being done (we were waiting on a response from the other side so there was nothing for us to do).

[crl]

DH is with big law in the States. His firm typically puts the cut off for getting bonuses to associates at 1800. He has typically billed 2100-2400. He is senior enough to help with billing clients now and knows that in his office he is consistently the high biller.

Catherine

ETA. He does litigation, but the firm is quite big and covers virtually every practice area. I am not aware of different targets for different practice areas.

[Indianamom2]

Dh is an estate planner at a larger firm in our area. For the first seven years he worked there, he billed, on average, at least 2000 hours a year. (The official expectation for associates on partner track was 1800). He often went over 2000.

He did not become partner because the firm decided to change the rules and up the ante during his sixth year. DH decided that it wasn't worth it to miss his daughter's first years of life to chase something that wasn't guaranteed. He opted to become "of counsel". His goal is now 1650.

He works well over 1650 hours a year, but much of his work is non-billable and he ends up having to write a lot of his time off these days. His firm charges too much for estate planning and it is really hurting him in this economy. This year doesn't look good....

[scrooks]

DH used to work for a medium sized regional firm in IP law. His goal was 1850.

[Kindra178]

2000 is pretty standard in both big and medium law here in Chicago. That's true for partners and associates, regardless of year. In my old firm, partners tend to bill more than associates, notwithstanding their additional time obligations.

[Kira's Mommy]

The best way to get this info is at Greedy associates. They have a Canadian forum.

1600 sounds low to me, but I'm not in tax and not at the associate level. When I was a third year call, my target was closer to 2000 and I was doing commercial litigation. I'm not sure what the solicitors targets were. Most junior litigators here (Vancouver) seem to have a billable target of 1800 - 2400.

If you aren't going to make your target, I would have a discussion with your partner sooner rather than later. Maybe you need to tweak your billings or you are missing something. Also, how is rainmaking rewarded at your firm? Do you have a lot of write-downs? If so, why??

The only time I was under my target as a junior was if my partner was writing down a lot of my work and that needs to be dealt with or you won't last long at that firm.

GL!

Our corporate people are billing in the area of 2000-2400. I'm not sure what's happening in litigation. Tax associates are completely different animals though. The amount of non-billables we have to do is insane. Also, the area of law is so complex, it takes at least 7 years to build enough expertise to actually bring value to your clients. Meanwhile, you cannot bill someone for "learning".

I'm actually the billing queen of our group. Other tax associates bill even less.

A serious component of the problem is that there isn't enough work for us. The partners know our situation very well but don't seem concerned. They say there is a lot of investment time in tax. They did tell us though that in order to get a bonus or make a partner we will eventually need the hours.

Rainmaking is rewarded but, again, rainmaking in corporate tax isn't easy. Our clients are huge corporations who can afford our ridiculous fees. How in the world would I attract clients like that in my third year?

Anyways, despite the above, I'm still worried. Might have to update my resume.