How long to go to sleep?

[Sweetum]

DS is 2+ years now and has trrrooouuuble going to sleep. Once asleep he rarely wakes up and that's a blessing. But getting to that point is the challenge. There was a time when we would take him to bed at the right time and he would fall asleep. But now, I don't know what the right time is. He takes forever. Although he's continuously demanding stories for the first 10 minutes and I never give in, he still lies there awake. And that means I'm tied to that room for however long it takes for him to fall asleep :( I used to lie next to him, then I stopped, and now I'm actually thinking of moving him to our bed and just be done with it :( Are there any tips/tricks to get kids this age to fall asleep faster? maybe a night cap ;) And I feel so bad for him - he's losing sleep just because he can't fall asleep when he clearly needs it. DCP too have trouble putting him to nap. They asked me if I wanted him to sleep for 2.5 hours starting from the time he falls asleep (usually one hour after naptime starts) and I said no - I don't want him to miss out on activities there...anything wrong with that?

[edurnemk]

That sound like the phase DS is going through, but he's 3. He's giving up his nap, and that has messed up his schedule (he's also discovered he can get out of bed and his room). Dr. Ferber's book says to try a later bedtime, because if he's not at a point for the sleep-wake phase where he can physically fall asleep he's just going to lay awake for hours. That's what we've done, when he does nap, I move up his bedtime to avoid hours of struggling with him. Sometimes sleep cycles change for them and it's necessary to adjust their schedule. Watch him for sleep cues and stick to your usual bedtime routine. Once he's back on track you can try moving his bedtime back to an earlier time in 15 minute increments.

ETA: I also have cut his nap short, on days when he does nap. I don't let him nap more than an hour, or it will be 11 pm before I can get him to fall asleep.

[toby]

A few questions:
Is he napping every day? DS stopped napping when he turned 2 yrs (ugh) and if he fell asleep even for 30 minutes, he would be up very late at night.

What time is he going to bed...actually falling asleep? What time does he wake up?

[Snow mom]

My DD was terrible to put to sleep for the first two years of her life. She had to be put down asleep when she was an infant and then after that I could put her down awake but had to lie with her until she fell asleep (sometimes up to an hour.) What has worked for us in the past few months is telling her that if she lies quietly someone will come check on her in 5/ 10 minutes. Having her lie quietly seems to be enough for her to fall asleep and I think me being there distracts her from that objective. Most nights she goes down after the normal bedtime routine (PJS, teeth, one story, 5-10 minutes of rocking) and that's it for the night.

[wellyes]

Why do you need to be in the room? Does he cry if you leave? Try to sneak out of bed? Just trying to get more info.....DD sometimes takes a long time to fall asleep, but when she does, she just tells herself stories and sings. But she does eventually fall asleep - if on her own.

If I stay in the room with her, she NEVER falls asleep. It's uncanny, her ability to stay up indefinitely to savor that precious one-on-one time with mommy.

But if you have to stay.... maybe a white noise machine would help. Or a nightlight. Something to focus on to help him drift off. We have that turtle thing that projects stars on the ceiling, DD loves it.

[gatorsmom]

Does he need a snack before bedtime? My twins who are 3.5yo have trouble getting to sleep at night if they didn't eat a good dinner or ate more than 3 hours before bedtime. We've started to incorporate a snack into their bedtime routine. They will stay up for hours talking and playing if they are hungry even if they are very tired.

Also, I've found that even though my 2 are outgrowing their naps, they still need it a couple times per week. There are days they are clearly tired and cranky and those days they get a nap. Little by little the naps are getting shorter and fewer during the week. hope that helps...

ETA: oh, on the advice of StantonHyde here, we got them the Sleep Fairy CD and they listen to it and love it every night. It is guided relaxation for kids and it is very soothing. Mine love it. Thanks Rebecca!

[Sweetum]

DS didn't nap the first year, and was somewhat cranky. In the 2nd year because of daycare he started napping and was much happier. Night sleeping was never a problem. Falling asleep started to be a problem for the last 8 months or so. But he needs his nap since he clearly looks exhausted when he doesn't get it. So, we are continuing to let him nap. And when he does not not, he's nodding off in the car, not otherwise, if we happen to be out, at 6pm. So, again, I do think he needs his nap. (pls. Let me know if you don't agree with me.

He needs us in the room to put him to sleep. We sort of sleep trained him, and 3 weeks into it, he started calling us. We would not go but there was one time when it was really pitiful and we went in, and that was it - it started again, and this time with a vengeance! I say that because till that time he never tried getting out of the room by himself, but now he does. The moment I put him to bed and say goodnight, he rushes to the door ahead of me and heads to our room. Now, even in the middle of the night he's coming t our room. Previously he would just sit there and cry/call out to us. Sowe don't know what to do! He's taken matters into his own hands! So, we are forced to stay in his room till he falls asleep. Any suggestions to keep him in his room would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[happymom]

DS didn't nap the first year, and was somewhat cranky. In the 2nd year because of daycare he started napping and was much happier. Night sleeping was never a problem. Falling asleep started to be a problem for the last 8 months or so. But he needs his nap since he clearly looks exhausted when he doesn't get it. So, we are continuing to let him nap. And when he does not not, he's nodding off in the car, not otherwise, if we happen to be out, at 6pm. So, again, I do think he needs his nap. (pls. Let me know if you don't agree with me.

He needs us in the room to put him to sleep. We sort of sleep trained him, and 3 weeks into it, he started calling us. We would not go but there was one time when it was really pitiful and we went in, and that was it - it started again, and this time with a vengeance! I say that because till that time he never tried getting out of the room by himself, but now he does. The moment I put him to bed and say goodnight, he rushes to the door ahead of me and heads to our room. Now, even in the middle of the night he's coming t our room. Previously he would just sit there and cry/call out to us. Sowe don't know what to do! He's taken matters into his own hands! So, we are forced to stay in his room till he falls asleep. Any suggestions to keep him in his room would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Is a crib an option? DD would also come running out every two minutes if she was able to. But she can't because she is in a crib...

[gatorsmom]

DS didn't nap the first year, and was somewhat cranky. In the 2nd year because of daycare he started napping and was much happier. Night sleeping was never a problem. Falling asleep started to be a problem for the last 8 months or so. But he needs his nap since he clearly looks exhausted when he doesn't get it. So, we are continuing to let him nap. And when he does not not, he's nodding off in the car, not otherwise, if we happen to be out, at 6pm. So, again, I do think he needs his nap. (pls. Let me know if you don't agree with me.

He needs us in the room to put him to sleep. We sort of sleep trained him, and 3 weeks into it, he started calling us. We would not go but there was one time when it was really pitiful and we went in, and that was it - it started again, and this time with a vengeance! I say that because till that time he never tried getting out of the room by himself, but now he does. The moment I put him to bed and say goodnight, he rushes to the door ahead of me and heads to our room. Now, even in the middle of the night he's coming t our room. Previously he would just sit there and cry/call out to us. Sowe don't know what to do! He's taken matters into his own hands! So, we are forced to stay in his room till he falls asleep. Any suggestions to keep him in his room would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Well, my older 2 clearly out grew their naps at around 2 yo. Cha Cha would be falling asleep inthe car in the afternoon when we'd pick up Gator and when he did it always meant he wouln't get to sleep til after 10pm that night. As long as he didn't sleep int he afternoon, he'd go to bed at 8pm.

You could get a soft, spring-mounted gate to put up in his room at night and let him know that he had to stay in his bed. You could try a very consistent (this is key) bedtime routine and toward the end you would make sure to let him know that once he's in bed, you'll spend sometime with him rubbing his back or reading books but after that he has to stay in his bed. You could try a reward system for staying in his bed (like a sticker chart) or a punishment system like taking away a toy each time he gets out of bed. There are some bedtime strategies that others have mentioned here like sitting in his room each night on a chair that gets progressively closer to the door until you are out the door (I can't remember exactly how that works but others have said they had success with it. Maybe someone will chime in.) Or, you could be content to get him to sleep in his bed for the first few hours and then let him just run in to your bed later that night. Cha Cha did this. Starting at age 3yo, he'd go to sleep in his own bed and but at about 2am he'd would run into our room EVERY night. He still does it occasionally but starting at about 5yo he does it less and less. I think he just sleeps more thoroughly at night and doesn't wake up now til morning. DH and I didn't mind this as long as we had a couple of hours at night to spend together. We were sleeping when he'd run in our bed anyway.

hope this gives you some ideas!

[toby]

DS could get out of his crib when he was 2, so we put up an extra-tall gate (he could climb over the regular ones). The deal was that the gate would be left open as long as he stayed in his room. He tested it, we shut the gate and he screamed. It was AWFUL for about a week (and he would sometimes fall asleep on the floor), but when he realized that we were serious, he stayed in bed and we left the gate open. In the meantime, I was a total wreck and kept wanting to quit.

I think, but am not quite sure, that during this time I sat outside his room in a chair so he could see me, but I didn't interact with him.

If you do something like this, you have to expect that it will get worse before it gets better...find a friend to call or post on the board when you want to give in!

As OPs have suggested, we have also done checks at 5-10 minute intervals (this was enough to keep him in bed). We did this when he was a little older.

I also like the reward system idea. I would get a small toy (make sure that it is something that he would really like) and have it in a jar or up on a shelf so that he can see it. Remind him before bed that the next time that he stays in bed, he can have the toy (the next morning). I would not make a huge deal about the toy because then it can turn into a power struggle or anxiety thing...in other words, if he does get out of bed, I wouldn't say to him "now you don't get the toy." I would reward immediately with a toy the first five or so times and then move to a sticker chart. After 3-5 stickers (however long you think that he could wait), he could then pick out a small toy. Or...maybe the stickers themselves would be enough for your DS?

DS is now 6.5 and we have successfully used small rewards to extinguish some behaviors and reward positive ones (DS is very challenging). Toy cars/trucks/construction equipment ("Cars" and "Bob the Builder" lines were popular) were the first things that we used. Later, I got a lot of Playmobil figures and accessories on ebay and we used these as rewards. Basically, you need to find out what your DS's "currency" is-- some kids are happy with a sticker or a balloon...others need a lot more to motivate them.

[alirebco]

When DS got more and more difficult to put down at night, we had him stop napping - he was fighting naps as well. Now bedtime is a breeze for everyone!

[toby]

One more thought:
After we put up the gate and DS fell asleep on the rug, he decided that he liked it there. He asked to sleep on the rug and usually picked a spot right near the door (he would be literally up to the line without crossing it!) I think that he liked having control of where he was going to sleep...at least within his room.

[MSWR0319]

This happens to us if we don't get him to bed early enough. He'll lie awake for hours screaming, just because he's overtired. I'd say watch for sleep cues.