UPDATE in OP -need urgent advice - 6th grade girl politics

[Globetrotter]

She apologized for hurting her feelings - girl rolled her eyes :( then dd showed both versions and showed what she did. Other girl said "okay, fine we'll use it", so they used dd's version. They worked on some other things, too, and at the end other girl said it should only have dd's name on it since dd did it. oh dear.. Apparently she always talks like that?? I don't know what to make of that b/c I'm sure dd is also biased. Well, it's done now and it's a lesson learned for Miss Perfectionist on how to work with someone else who isn't that way!

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DD is working on a project with another girl. DD is very conscientious and detail oriented, but unfortunately the other girl is more relaxed, and it's led to an uncomfortable situation.
They were supposed to make something and the other girl wrote out something for it. DD looked at it and saw errors and thought it was incomplete, so she said she would do it. Now the other girl, of course, didn't take well to this and said to dd, "you don't have to be so mean." Now dd has redone it and then she asked me which version was better. I didn't know the backstory and I clearly thought dd's version was much better, so I told her. Then she told me what happened..

Now what? I am more concerned that she hurt the other girl's feelings. At the same time, the other girl's work wasn't so great and would bring down their grade. ugh I realize group work is there partly to allow the kids to handle these issues, right?

She asked me what she should say to the other girl, and I wasn't sure what to tell her, but I did point out she hurt her feelings, obviously. any ideas? I have to tell her in the morning (PST), hence the urgency.

[ha98ed14]

This is coming from someone who is a perfectionist about her own academic work:

If the "not great" aspects of the other girl's work are related to neatness, grammar, spelling or other "cosmetic" issues, but the substance of the work was correct, then I think that your DD needs to let the other girl's work stand.

If it is a spelling assignment, then yes the words should be all spelled perfectly. But if it is a history assignment, and not all the paragraph's are perfect, well that is okay in my view because it is a group assignment and different kids have different abilities at different stages. Your DD told this girl that her ability was not good enough, so she (your DD) would do it herself. Yeah, that would hurt anyone's feelings.

Assuming the issues were cosmetic, I would instruct you DD to use the contribution of her partner, even if her own is better. If there were substantive errors, then I would instruct your DD to try and work with the partner to correct her (the partner's) original work.

ETA: As a smart, perfectionist type, learning to make room for the contributions of others, even if they are not as good as what she could produce herself, is a VERY important lesson to learn.

[rin]

Oh man, this is why I always hated group projects in school.

Anyways, my understanding is that group projects are generally assigned at least in part to offer an opportunity for students to practice working in groups and develop their leadership/cooperation skills, so the primary academic goal isn't always the only thing being assessed. If this is at all the case at your DD's school, I'd say that it's probably just as important for your DD and the other girl to feel like they worked together as it is for them to do well on the academic portions of the assignment. Ultimately, this could be a really good leadership skills learning opportunity for your DD. If I were in this situation, I'd probably advise my DD to use the other girl's version, and suggest that she could say something about how she's sorry she hurt the other girl's feelings. Then I'd suggest alternative strategies for dealing with similar situations in the future (e.g., instead of saying that she'll redo the other girl's work she could say that it looks like a great first draft, how was the other girl planning to deal with xyz parts of the assignment, etc).

[Globetrotter]

Great suggestions! There are spelling and cosmetic errors, but the main issue is it was incomplete. These were written instructions, but they weren't clear, so it is a substantial issue.

Apparently, dd asked if she could make changes on the other girl's version but she didn't want that, so then she suggested she would redo it :shake: She is only 11 and this is just the beginning, but I'm hoping it's a chance to learn how to work with people who aren't like her. I'm kind of like that, too, so i know it's hard to let go! A few weeks ago she was working on a project with her best friend, who is extremely bright but lazy :) Her friend wrote some three word captions, and dd's eyes got really big and she said, "Mama, we can't use these!" so she called her friend and asked her if she could make them longer!

I realize that part of this is the opportunity to learn how to work with other people. I told her she could have worked together with the other girl, and to do that next time, but it's too late now as it's due tomorrow, so it's either her version or the other one. She also said the other girl messed up on something else but dd didn't know how to tell her so she kept quiet about that. I told her to apologize for hurting her feelings, but dh doesn't think she needs to apologize when she's making it better (such a guy reaction..). I can't believe i'm thinking so much about this :)

[Naranjadia]

.
ETA: As a smart, perfectionist type, learning to make room for the contributions of others, even if they are not as good as what she could produce herself, is a VERY important lesson to learn.

For 6th grade, she's already learned a good lesson about group work - your reactions affect others. I think you've done a good job by talking it over with her, mama! Next time she can try working together with her partner(s) or deciding ahead of time that one would do the rough draft and the other revise, or something like that that would give her room to improve the final product.

Honestly, I teach college-level, and group-work is a struggle at that level, too - negotiating levels of commitment, perfectionism, etc.

I think ha98ed has a great point about 'learning to make room for the contributions of others.' I still struggle with this all the time. Sometimes I just want to do it all, because I know I will do it "right." It takes a lot of practice to accept and appreciate others contributions.

[JustMe]

Wow, 6th grade is so complex...that is an awful lot for an 11 year old to be dealing with. I think you have gotten some great advice, but in terms of saying sorry or not saying sorry, just wanted to add something that I saw a friend of mine tell her dd the other day. She said sometimes you say your sorry not because you did anything wrong, but because you hurt someone's feelings. I thought this was an important thing for kids to learn.

[egoldber]

Ugh. I hated group projects with a passion in school and I hate them even worse now as a parent having to help my kid navigate them. Bleah.

I like the idea of apologizing because she hurt the girl's feelings. And I think that re-writing it is not the way to go.

If the issue is that what her partner wrote was incomplete, can she just add a paragraph (or whatever) to make it complete?

[Pear]

Group school projects never seem worth it. If the point is to teach workplace collaboration they fail because in the real world people who just don't pull their weight get fired. I guess I would try to find a way to explain that your daughter does need to consider the feelings of others even if it is necessary that she do the bulk of the work. As much as teamwork is important, I wouldn't want to encourage to turn in a sub-standard project.

[Globetrotter]

I KNEW I could count on you all! Thanks for the feedback. She just went off to school and I told her to first apologize for hurting her feelings. Then I told her to politely explain the changes she made without pointing out little mistakes. I suggested she focus on the text she added.. it wasn't completely changed, but she added some steps, so not totally different from the original but it makes it all clearer so the person using it (it's a game) will understand what to do.

Seems the other girl didn't care about neatness, either, but she's chosen to ignore that. After a point, what can you do?

Let's see what happens now.. gosh, I have trouble with this stuff in my life and I'm a whole lot older than dd!

[Naranjadia]

Group school projects never seem worth it. If the point is to teach workplace collaboration they fail because in the real world people who just don't pull their weight get fired.

I wish that had been the case in my experiences. I've never seen that happen. I'm sure it depends on your field. I've seen resentments build. I've seen people protected by their roles in the hierarchy, or their willingness to play politics with management. Although preparing kids for such frustration is not a very worthy goal in and of itself. :ROTFLMAO:

I do think there is value in group work: learning to work together, to accommodate others' styles, to be able to recognize when someone other than yourself has a good idea, etc.

There's a lot of talk these days of multiple forms of assessment for group work - I doubt this has made it into every classroom, but the idea is that both the individual and group work is evaluated. At higher grades, sometimes students and groups sort of "audit" themselves, too. It's more work for the teacher, but it feels fairer to most students and gives them the group work experience without as much of the PITA part.

[Globetrotter]

Update in OP


There's a lot of talk these days of multiple forms of assessment for group work - I doubt this has made it into every classroom, but the idea is that both the individual and group work is evaluated. At higher grades, sometimes students and groups sort of "audit" themselves, too.

In grad school we had a huge group project that lasted a year. In fact, it was the groundbreaking program of its type. ONe of the goals was to learn how to work with other people in a team. Well, we had a slacker. Ok, she was a single mom so I could certainly give her a huge break for that (gosh, now that I"m a mom, I can't even imagine.. we weren't allowed to have jobs outside of school so we could focus on the program) but even so she wasn't as diligent as the rest of us. Towards the end of the project, I stayed up all night to do final edits on our document (I had to go to a friend's house to work on it as my printer died). Well, this other student didn't show up to pick it up and do her bit, so I rushed through it for nothing and she didn't seem to care.

At the end, our professor interviewed all of us individually to talk about group dynamics and we each had a chance to give feedback on the other team members. All that was considered in the final grade.. as it should be.

[Naranjadia]

Update in OP
At the end, our professor interviewed all of us individually to talk about group dynamics and we each had a chance to give feedback on the other team members. All that was considered in the final grade.. as it should be.

That's cool - as you say, as it should be.

I'm sorry your DD didn't get a warmer response from the other girl. Maybe she was embarrassed? But at least your DD took the high road!

[ahisma]

I hate to say it, but eye-rolling isn't the worst of what these kids do to each other. DD is in 7th grade, in the 2nd best school in the state. From the outside it looks like some utopian universe, but those kids are nasty!

I'm constantly amazed at what is considered "acceptable". I want to wash other kids mouths out with soap! (not something we do, but you get the point). My DD has her moments, but in general, I think we got pretty lucky:)