How to avoid spoiled, entitled children

[niccig]

I had a long drive with a friend today and we were talking about how our kids have access to more than we did as children, mostly because our families can afford more. DS is growing up in a very different environment then I did - different country and all - and he may not have the same earning potential as his father does. I have seen this in DH's family, where his sibling gets help from parents for some perks that they can't afford as they don't earn same as parents did.

A couple of things we thought of:

* presents at birthdays/christmas and that's all (need to get DH on board more with this, though lately he has been better)
* don't get everything they ask for
* they must be responsible for their things and pay to replace if damage or lose (I've already done this with DS)
* part-time job once they're old enough, then that's their entertainment money.
* once old enough, a clothing budget, and if want something more they have to use their own money.
* chores around the house.
* must pay for some of college (while I don't want DS to have a mortgage size tuition loans, nor do I want him to have a free ride and not appreciate it)

I suppose I'm asking, how do we get our children to be happy with what they have and not always wanting something more? I think this lesson was easier for me to learn as we went through periods when couldn't afford anything, so happy with what we did have. It seems more difficult to teach this when can do more - though I do talk to DS about wants vs. needs.

[kijip]

This has been a big issue for me. I grew up in a totally different socio-economic level than my kids. I struggle big time with figuring out how to not go overboard as an over reaction to my childhood and also coming to terms with the fact that some of the lessons I learned, T and F will not.

We do presents at Christmas, and we throw him a big bday party. We usually just get him 1 smaller birthday present, the main thing being the party. He does get a lot of bday presents from friends and family. A lot.

We engage him in volunteer work.

We give him an allowance and he has to budget for the stuff he wants between xmas and bday. Also for things that are more than we will pay. For example, he was going over board planning his bday party...a pump it Up party, plus a ton of decorations and favors...it was approaching $500 al together. I told him that he had $95 above the cost of the party place for food, decorations and favors and if he wanted to go higher than that, it would need to come from him own money. He immediately pared down his expectations and made a list (actually a spreadsheet, no joke) to get close to that amount, expecting to chip in a little of his own, but not blow his savings. We will apply this same principle to clothes when he is old enough to care.

We will expect some sort of paid job and a contribution to college funds, but I would like them to be able to do internships in college too.

I have had to learn not to say yes just because I can, so that even small things like slurpees and paperbacks don't become so common as to be see as a given.

[citymama]

It's important to me that my kids learn to give back and understand that we are *extremely* fortunate in the grand scheme of things. Involving them in volunteer work and charitable work is one way to get to this, as also travel and opportunities to interact with people from different socio-economic backgrounds. My kids are still too young to get this, but I have other friends whose older kids use/save their own money (allowance) for pretty much all "want" type purchases, including saving up for the superhero toy or buying an icecream. Birthdays and December holiday season is when they get their presents.

Our difficulty is grandparents, who not only buy a lot for the kids (older DD in particular), but she has also started to go to grandma for things we're not going to agree to get. It's hard because she doesn't see them that often and it feels like we're depriving her of the opportunity to indulge her grandkids. But we also know that this is a baaad set-up to encourage - grandma, good and generous; parents, mean and depriving.

[brittone2]

I agree with PPs points, and we play to really emphasize volunteer work. Many of our kids tend to socialize primarily w/ people of similar socioeconomic backrounds, and I think that is where broadening their perspective is helpful (i.e. not "everyone" owns a wii, an iPod, a smart phone, etc. even though to our children it may seem that way).

During the holidays we do an Advent calendar with activities, and we try to incorporate some acts of service (shopping for Toys for Tots, shopping for a food pantry, etc.). As they get older I'd like to move the Advent calendar to primarily service-oriented ideas. Of course, that focus would ideally be there year-round, but I think having a service-to-others mentality is nice to have surrounding the gluttony of the holidays.

[ladysoapmaker]

There are some very good ideas.

I'm hoping that the kids can find part time jobs. Our oldest will be 15 this year and he's been looking for odd jobs. (but the fact that he goes to his mom's every so often makes it harder to have a "regular" job). We have nieces & nephews that are in the upper teen years (or college) and they have been having a dickens of a time finding minimum wage jobs (fast food, landscaping, traditional "teen" job).

We are trying to teach our kids to respect others and to be polite when we are out and about. I think I've managed to train the older boys not to ask for everything. DD#1 needs work but she is 7. DD#2 hasn't quite figure it out yet... We are still on the please & thank you stage at home.

Jen

[almostmom]

My situation is opposite, but I think the tactics will be the same. DH and I make significantly less than our parents did. But our kids live a full and good life, and definitely don't need more than they have. But I also don't want them to be spoiled! I think it's important to remember that no matter how much you have, you always want something more. And it's that teaching that you can enjoy what you have, and live without a lot, that teaches these ethics.

For me, it's saying no. It's them knowing that they can't have every dessert they see, every toy in a toy store, every ad that's on tv. They have chores and allowance and can save up for things. I don't have a strict rule on only presents at holidays and bdays (especially since they are all in the same month basically), but I don't buy gratuitously.

So for me it's about setting limits. When they are older, I hope we have the time to volunteer somewhere. But it's hard to fit in at the moment, for any of us.

[hellokitty]

This is something that is really important to me as well. My parents were more affluent than DH and I currently are (we are middle class), BUT my parents actually deprived my siblings and myself of a lot of things, not b/c they couldn't afford it, but b/c they just don't believe in buying/doing anything unnecessary, everything was only for educational reason (yeah, totally not fun for us). Like if the school took us to the zoo for a field trip, my parents felt it was a waste of time/$ to do the zoo again. We have a zoo membership and go to the zoo many times a yr, it's fun AND educational, plus a cheap day trip for us, just gas $, since I pack our lunches.

It's been hard not to go the complete opposite way as a lash back from the way I was brought up. To an extent, I do spoil my kids compared to the way I was brought up. HOWEVER, I feel that compared to other kids today, they are still below avg when it comes to being spoiled, if that makes any sense.

Some things we try to do...

-We talk about, "wants" and "needs."

-They do not automatically get what they ask for. Unfortunately, my DH has a ROTTEN habit of just getting them stuff if they ask for it if he is out with the kids. For example, we went to the mall this wknd and I went shopping and my DH took the kids to B&N. DH bought DS1 TWO pokemon guides. Those are not things I would have gotten him. I would have had him check it from the library and/or save us allowance for it. My DH's rational was, "well, it's encouraging him to read, so it's good for him."

-They will not automatically get a car from us when they turn 16. In fact, I expect them to get a part time job, esp during the summer to save for college.

-We do not throw lavish bday parties. Every few yrs, we will give them a, "bigger" bday party, but unlike most of the ppl we know, we do not do a big bday party costing hundreds of dollars for each child, each yr. We usually just do a family bday party and keep it simple.

-Encourage them to do volunteer work and join groups that promote volunteering.

-They are to help with household chores, since they are part of the family. I am not going to have my fdils being PO'd at me b/c I'm going to raise sons that actually KNOW how to do household chores. When I met my DH, he didn't know how to do ANYTHING. His mom never had he or his brother do ANY chores at all. I have, "trained" my DH well, so that he helps out a lot now, but my bil barely helps my sil with anything. It sounds bad, but I blame my mil. She raised her sons up wrong, boys AND girls should know how to do basic chores, she decided that since she had boys that they would just have a wife to pick up after them all of the time. I even get annoyed with her when we are with her and she does EVERYTHING for my kids, instead of letting them do it themselves.

-Along with that thought, I try to encourage my kids to be as independent as possible. If they ask me to get them another napkin during dinner, I tell them that they can get it themselves. I know kids whose moms do EVERYTHING for them. They are capable of doing them, but just are used to having it done for them or feel like they shouldn't have to deal with it.

-We stress not being wasteful. This is not just related to food, but electricity, toys, craft supplies, etc..

-We limit, "treats." My kids can get into a bad habit (from school) of thinking that they always deserve, "treats." They will start to bug me about needing a treat and I just flat out tell them that treats are for special occasions.

-If my kids complain about what we don't have (ie: why don't we don't have a pool or x toy, etc.) I bring back down to earth about their expectations, that we should be thankful for what we have, since many ppl have less than what we have, etc..

-I admit that over-indulged my kids when they were younger with toys, but starting last yr, I really cut down on that dramatically.

[brittone2]

I think this also raises the point of how we can help our children grow into adults who are content with less. This is one of the goals DH and I have discussed for our family. I think it is quite possible many of our children won't see the same quality of life or socioeconomic status that we currently have. Our family is not affluent, but with the direction things are going with respect to globalization, and the status of the "middle class" in the US, I am not optimistic that our children will necessarily have the same lifestyle.

One of the most significant goals we have for our family is finding a way to help them feel satisfied, content, etc. with less. We try to model this and focus on simplicity, but it isn't always easy.

I suppose it isn't the same thing as trying to avoid "spoiling" your child, but there is a good bit of overlap I think.

eta: I would also go as far to say that growing our kids into adults who can feel satisfied, content, and fulfilled with less is one of our major goals in life. I think fostering that is so important to their mental health, their financial health, etc.

[egoldber]

:yeahthat:

This is more my concern. That they realize they don't need everything they see in order to be happy and content. Like hellokitty, my parents were super strict about money and it took a lot of self restraint for me to not lavish my kids with all the things that I wanted as a kid but never got. :o I don't think either extreme is good.

But some things we do to foster appreciation of time/money....

1) Give an allowance and let them choose how to spend their money even if you think it's a waste. Older DD is now savvy about shopping sales, using a coupon, and buying used in order to save money and make her $$$ go further.

2) We try to emphasize inexpensive alternatives to activities: using the library, renting vs. buying movies or going to the movies, going to the park vs. amusement parks, etc.

3) Now that older DD is really at an age to get it we talk about service projects, try to do things as a family, etc. Her GS troop does several service projects for the homeless in the area and that is an important thing for them to talk about and realize that so many are less fortunate.


I have seen this in DH's family, where his sibling gets help from parents for some perks that they can't afford as they don't earn same as parents did.

I'm not sure this is always a problem though is it? My ILs subsidize family vacations to the beach and WDW so that DH's siblings can afford to go. It is really important to them to build happy family memories of extended family vacations and to build the camaradie of cousins (their grandchildren) vacationing together. They have the money and want to spend it this way. Of course, if it meant financial hardship for them, that's a different story!

[hellokitty]

I think this also raises the point of how we can help our children grow into adults who are content with less. This is one of the goals DH and I have discussed for our family. I think it is quite possible many of our children won't see the same quality of life or socioeconomic status that we currently have. Our family is not affluent, but with the direction things are going with respect to globalization, and the status of the "middle class" in the US, I am not optimistic that our children will necessarily have the same lifestyle.

One of the most significant goals we have for our family is finding a way to help them feel satisfied, content, etc. with less. We try to model this and focus on simplicity, but it isn't always easy.

I suppose it isn't the same thing as trying to avoid "spoiling" your child, but there is a good bit of overlap I think.

eta: I would also go as far to say that growing our kids into adults who can feel satisfied, content, and fulfilled with less is one of our major goals in life. I think fostering that is so important to their mental health, their financial health, etc.

I agree with this too! I am trying very hard to teach my kids NOT to be materialistic. Unfortunately, my DH's side of the family is VERY materialistic and while my DH has improved a lot in this dept himself, but he can still be very materialistic and my mil is one of the greediest ppl I know, so she is a horrible influence on him, constantly making him feel like he should want more (ie: she keeps telling us we should buy a fancier/bigger house). My own parents are very materialistic, in that they think $ is the most important thing and they are obsessed with status (ie: being a doctor, lawyer, etc.).

I see a big problem with DH's side of the family in that they ALWAYS think that other ppl have it better than them. BIL is very financially successful, but he is so driven by $, basically he can never have enough of it and is a workaholic constantly striving to make more $, so he can buy more stuff. He doesn't really spend much time with his kids, he just buys them stuff to make them happy, so my niece and nephew are also obsessed with material goods. My mil is convinced that everyone has it better than she does and she has told me numerous times that if she had more $, she believes it would solve all of her problems (it wouldn't, she is one of those ppl who is chronically unhappy, no matter what). She would probably even argue that homeless ppl are better off than she is. My DH kind of feels this way too, BUT he is also more easily content (takes after my fil), so he wishes we had more, but he also knows that he doesn't want to work harder (he enjoys his free time too much to be a workaholic). I have to deal with both sides of grandparents constantly telling my kids that they should become doctors so they can, "make lots of $!" You would think they would promote becoming a doctor as a helping profession, but no they are just stuck on the $ and status aspect of it and I hate that they are constantly sending this msg to my kids. DS2 already has told us he wants to be a doctor so he can become rich and we have to remind him that it's not easy to become a doctor and it's not all about $ either.

I'd like my kids to realize early on that happiness is not only linked to $ and material goods. This was the way both my DH and I were brought up and it wasn't until after we had kids that we realized how untrue this is and we have observed other very unhappy (but rich) family members still not, "get" this life lesson.

[HIU8]

Opposite situation with us. Growing up my sibs and I basically got whatever we wanted. Honestly, I would ask for something and I would get it. I think it was b/c my mother grew up with nothing. I grew up middle class and my parents had massive credit card debt. However, starting at 14 I had a part-time job. Not b/c I needed to, but b/c I wanted one to earn my own $$.

Now, we make way more than my parents did. It doesn't go very far in this economy however. My kids get what they need on a regular basis (food, clothes, etc...). They get what we feel is a need (even if they don't) such as swimming lessons. They each do get one type of class--DS karate, DD gymnastics. They get their WANTS on birthday's and for the holidays (or at least we attempt). We don't have season passes to anything. My kids have never been to any type of amusement park (we hope to be able to go to DW next year). Of course DS somehow feels that every single time he leaves the house he is entitled to a trip for a toy (which is odd b/c it's never ever something we have done and I don't understand where he gets the notion from).

When I was a bit older than DS my family did start volunteering at a soup kitchen for Thanksgiving. We hope to start that soon with our kids. Also, my kids and I go through all their stuff several times a year to put bags together to donate (I'm talking 4 times a year).

[ha98ed14]

Of course DS somehow feels that every single time he leaves the house he is entitled to a trip for a toy (which is odd b/c it's never ever something we have done and I don't understand where he gets the notion from).

We struggle with this too. A trip to Target turns into an opportunity for a pick from the dollar bin. In fairness to DD, at times I have offered her something, most often when I am really struggling with my own mood issues and need to engage her in positive interaction, so we can talk about the toy/ coloring book/ whatever. I think that I where I go wrong a lot. I find myself falling back on getting her Target dollar bin stuff on my bad days. On my good days, I say no. How awful is that?!? Part of the issue is that DD does not distinguish between a $1 pinwheel from a the dollar bin and doll clothes for her AG doll (which was a gift from my parents). Overall, she gets little things randomly throughout the year and some "bigger" things for her birthday and Christmas. But she just had her 4th bday and her gift from me was her party (I did all the work!) and her gift from her dad was one of these new super duper bounce balls because they like to play ball together. From friends she got a Hello Kitty dish set, some nice Farber Castle crayon-pencils and some clothes. Nice gifts, but nothing super extravagant. From grandparents, I asked for $ for her college fund and my parents usually comply. From M&FIL, we got another year of SD Zoo passes.

As for income/class, DD is growing up with less than I had, but more than DH did, so I think it is a balance. She's "spoiled" compared to DH in that her life is pretty stable. There were days his family was out of food 'til the next pay check. But I had a rather disjointed experience too. Life with my mom was tight, but not desperate. My dad on the other hand had a summer house and a sailboat and out of that I got a prep school education. I will never be able to give that to DD, which makes me sad because I had amazing experiences as part of that. But I think she will be okay. She's our only and will remain so, so whatever extra we have (which is not much at the moment) will go to her education and life experiences like a dance class and zoo pases (now) and travel and post secondary ed (when she is older). I have to believe it will be enough.

[Globetrotter]

I think about this a lot. It is so easy to spoil our kids when we CAN, so we have to actively restrain ourselves.

Presents come on special occasions, and we've come to the point where I hardly give them anything because they get money and gift cards from friends and family, though most of that money goes into their bank accounts. My parents hardly give them anything except money, because they know I'm very particular about what they get! DS hardly asks for anything and loves to GIVE presents purchased with his money. DD has started to have "wants" but knows she has to wait.

I do buy them a lot of books because that's one thing that is useful and used over and over again, but I stick to classics or things that I think they will reread. The other books have to be checked out at the library. I USED to buy all sorts of stuff from my deals, but I've greatly curtailed that because they have more than enough.

Speaking of deals, I've trained them to never pay retail and to wait for sales vs. getting things when they want them. They figured out that their gift cards go much further when they use coupons! (dd doubles her Michael's gift cards that way) I always tell them how I shop around for a good price and how hard we have to work to earn money.

When dd was done with American Girl dolls (which she hardly used), she helped me prepare them for resale on ebay and she could get that money to pay for something else she wanted. We might do the same with her Groovy Girl stuff, though a lot of it will go to two friends who are into GG, and we will eventually do it with Playmobil and a couple other things. DD nicely packed their Build A bear stuff and gave it to our nephew, who loves his bear :) We donate a lot of stuff and try to make sure the kids are involved in packing the items and dropping them off to the homeless shelter, etc...

We used to do "no gift, charity" birthdays every year (they chose the charity with my help), but nowadays they have small parties so they do get gifts.

We've taught them about marketing tactics from early on, and now they point out that so and so company is trying to "trick" them into buying something!

DD is a girl scout, partly because I wanted to encourage volunteerism. That was always important to me, growing up. DS quit scouts, so I have to think of something else. We do expose them to others who are less fortunate so they develop empathy (which they have) and realize how lucky we are. I feel it's as important to teach them that people with less money are just as good as us because I cannot stand snootiness. Actually, this is one benefit of switching to a school that has a better socioeconomic mix.

They have to do certain chores. We could do better in that area, but it's a start.

Wow, that got long :)

[robinsmommy]

We struggle with materialism and grandparents - my kids are the only GK's on both sides - my sibs won't have kids most likely, and DH has no sibs. My parents don't see that I am starting to flinch when they arrive and the STUFF arrives with them. Sometimes they are better than others about checking in on needs for the girls.

I would LOVE to do charity/no-gift parties, but I think unless you start this at a young age it is hard to change over to. I do wonder about getting the crowd of DD1's friends' parents together and trying to get all the crowd on board with it. It's not as if they don't get gifts from family anyways. The real trick is finding the one thing that will truly make their day - DD2 at Xmas LOVED her piggybank with the bow and tiara on top - the rest was just dross.

Amy Dacyzyn (Tightwad Gazette creator, years ago) had an interesting idea about the diminishing return value of more gifts - the curve dipped the more you got. I know of families who do the "something to wear, something to read, something you want and something you need" for the holidays - so, yes, 4 gifts. I'd love to do that.

I love the ideas I am seeing here. I know other people have mentioned it, but I need to hit the library again for "Simplicity Parenting". Lots more ideas in there.

[niccig]

I'm not sure this is always a problem though is it? My ILs subsidize family vacations to the beach and WDW so that DH's siblings can afford to go. It is really important to them to build happy family memories of extended family vacations and to build the camaradie of cousins (their grandchildren) vacationing together. They have the money and want to spend it this way. Of course, if it meant financial hardship for them, that's a different story!

I'm not talking about the occasion family vacation so everyone can go. I'm talking day to day stuff and the expectation that their parents will pay for things. DH in particular is upset about it as he thinks his parents are being taken advantage of, but he knows that they are the ones that have to say No. His sibling won't work either, so it's an issue of deciding to be a one income family, but wanting the lifestyle she had as a child, when both her parents worked to pay for that. And now both her parents are still paying, father is retired, and mother is semi-retired, so their income is more limited, yet still footing the bill.

[niccig]

Thanks everyone. There are some great suggestions here. I struggle with this, and want to make sure that DS is appreciative and grateful for what he has. He does have more, and like others I am glad he won't learn some of the harsh lessons I learned as a child. But I don't want us to go the other way either.

[AnnieW625]

* presents at birthdays/christmas and that's all (need to get DH on board more with this, though lately he has been better)
We do one birthday present (the last two years we've spent about $100 on a gift, but prior to 4 we spent less than $50; it's really depended on what she has wanted), and one large Christmas gift, and a few less than $20 items.

* don't get everything they ask for
No, DD1 doesn't get everything she asks for. She has been wanting a Zhu Zhu pet for the past year and I haven't gotten her one yet; she will most likely get one for Christmas though. I think I'll finally give in.

* they must be responsible for their things and pay to replace if damage or lose (I've already done this with DS)
big believer in this.

* part-time job once they're old enough, then that's their entertainment money.
I worked as a baby sitter starting at 12, and later as a nanny in college. I used this money for clothes, and entertainment. My parents were also happy if I couldn't find a good paying part time job that I could volunteer, which led me to interning for my congressman at the end of my freshman year in college. They were adament that once I turned 16 I either had to have a paying part time job or I had to do some volunteer work. DH had a part time job beginning at 16, so we both agree that volunteering or part time job is a must.

* once old enough, a clothing budget, and if want something more they have to use their own money.
I usually had to save about half of my birthday or Christmas money and so I usually spent that money on clothes or makeup and usually would spend it when I wasn't at the store with my parents. My mom never complained about how much I spent on clothes because besides a pair of Guess Jeans or an Esprit dress or tee shirt once a year I wasn't super picky. My Grandparents would often send money once or twice a year for a new outfit too.

* chores around the house
cooking for me was an easy way out of chores. Our list was pretty reasonable and it rotated.

* must pay for some of college (while I don't want DS to have a mortgage size tuition loans, nor do I want him to have a free ride and not appreciate it)
I had to pay for books for most quarters, and then a few times I had to pay tuition (usually about $500 or so) for what my Cal Grant didn't cover of my CSU tuition. My parents did pay my rent for my on campus apartment the two years I lived on campus, but I had to get acceptable grades, had to stay out of trouble, and mainly be responsible. I had to pay all of my gas, half of my auto insurance, and I had to pay for my own used car.

I really do plan to do a lot of the same things entitlement wise with our kids. I would like to do a big non family vacation (DWD, Disney Cruise, Hawai'i, DC, etc.) every 5 yrs or so, not every summer, which seems to be common in my circle of mom friends.

[hwin708]

I think I come at this issue from a different angle. I can't say I lose much sleep worrying about how not to spoil my kids. That, to me, is part of the larger issue of raising polite, kind, educated children, and I focus on that more than anything else.

I do a lot of your items simply out of selfish convenience and to keep my children... I don't know how best to put this. Tidy? I don't go overboard on stuff simply because I hate my house filling with clutter. I don't buy them everything they ask for because I don't like the look of "character" kids stuff, and I really don't even pause to consider buying it. I honestly think I avoid spoiling simply through sheer lack of personal interest in typical kid ware (heck, that's a large part of the reason I landed here - the hunt for useful, singular products). By extension, my kids aren't particularly obsessed with getting stuff, because it's just not our thing. And chores - again, manners, pick up after yourself, slobs are just not acceptable in this house, etc etc.

I also definitely do not worry about the fact that my kids are growing up with more money than I did. I grew up with WAY more money than my parents did, something that my father, in particular, took great strives to achieve. But I still grew up driven to succeed, because my parents were very business and education focused. So that is my focus with my kids. I want them to understand the importance of knowledge, to find something they love and to work to be great at it. I want them to be polite, kind, and driven. And if that drive takes them into a field that makes little money, frankly, I have no problem with subsidizing them a little. Yes, I want them to be happier with their smaller home or whatever, but I'm really not worried they won't be. I don't, however, want them to give up on travel or the occasional pampering or what have you. And I am happy to chip in towards "life's little pleasures." While I may not need any help financially, I have a true safety net with my parents, and I have never felt that breath-crushing fear over sudden financial changes that I have witnessed in so many others. I want my kids to know they can always come to me. MY focus is that they land in a job that makes them happy, not one that makes them financially set for life.

[ha98ed14]

MY focus is that they land in a job that makes them happy, not one that makes them financially set for life.

That's a great thing to be able to do, but it is a luxury born of the "family money" that you are privileged to have. Before this horrible recession, I had it too from my parents. Not anymore! It freaks the crap out of me. When things went south so quickly and DH saw his salary cut twice (and another one coming next year) I was thinking my parents would help me so that DD could still go to pre-school. But they can't; the money just isn't there anymore. They are down so far in their retirement accounts that every dime counts. It made me realize how privileged I had been. When I was in grad school, my parents gave me money to go and study abroad something that was not particularly useful for getting a job, but very interesting to me. If I was in the same place now (20s, single and childless), I would not even ask them for it. Oh how times can change.

[hwin708]

That's a great thing to be able to do, but it is a luxury born of the "family money" that you are privileged to have. Before this horrible recession, I had it too from my parents. Not anymore! It freaks the crap out of me. When things went south so quickly and DH saw his salary cut twice (and another one coming next year) I was thinking my parents would help me so that DD could still go to pre-school. But they can't; the money just isn't there anymore. They are down so far in their retirement accounts that every dime counts. It made me realize how privileged I had been. When I was in grad school, my parents gave me money to go and study abroad something that was not particularly useful for getting a job, but very interesting to me. If I was in the same place now (20s, single and childless), I would not even ask them for it. Oh how times can change.
Oh absolutely, I think I'm in a lucky position and that things could change on a dime. But that worry does not keep me from raising my kids to seek happiness, first and foremost. At this point, they have a large network of financially supportive family who could be there if necessary. So, weighing my odds, if they were encouraged to choose a lucrative career, even if it is not something they wanted to do, it seems more likely that that job could go bust and leave them in financial ruin than that ALL the adults around them could go bust. End of the day, I'd prefer they gamble on happiness first.

Now, don't get me wrong, I was taught (and will teach as they get older and understand credit and debt more) financial responsibility. I don't carry any debt and keep a very healthy savings, and will impart that to my kids. But I won't hesitate to, per your example, pay for semesters abroad because one day that money might not be there.

The topic of this thread is about spoiling. And, to me, that's about the negative aspects that come from indulgences. Bratty, ungrateful, lazy children. And my answer to this is that I approach those issues as my focus - manners, respect, education, work ethic. I don't view happy, expensive pleasures to be, in and of themselves, bad.

[Uno-Mom]

Thanks for this interesting thread. I read it earlier today on my phone but couldn't chime in because I was on my phone. It helps to read what you all are experiencing with your kids who are much older than mine.

At this point in my parenting life, I have two goals...
1. Teach empathy. At this point (toddler) that means modeling compassion towards my daughter and in front of her towards others. And talking about feelings - mine, hers' and other people's. It's hard for selfishness and empathy to co-exist, right?

2. Model a healthy attitude towards "stuff." Parents' behavior teaches more than rules. This is hardest for me and I have a LONG way to go. I have a lot of stuff and often feel morally superior (haha - insert sarcasm here) because the stuff I'm into is books...plants...creative quirky handmade items...other supposedly wholesome granola stuff. But still, we have a LOT of stuff. I'm trying to simplify. I want the things we own to be well-chosen and meaningful.

[DrSally]

This is important to me too. I grew up with very little. Everything was from a garage sale, and money was always *extremely* tight. I don't want my kids to feel the anxiety/guilt I felt about spending any money. I'm still very frugal. I want to teach my kids about value when shopping/buying, but I want to spare them the pain of feeling like everything is so, so dear, KWIM?

We do a lot of things mentioned above--they don't get everything they want, don't get automatic replacements for broken/lost things, we try to repair things first rather than replace, etc., charity toward others, etc.

But, I think a lot of it comes down to the parent's attitude about money/spending/consumption. I think modeling an attitude that happiness does not come from constant consumption/buying is the prob one of the most helpful things to do. I know the American economy is driven by consumption, but it is just ridiculous the level of materialism in this culture. Almost all spare time is spent shopping, newer, bigger, better, etc. IMO, it just leads to a constant state of unhappiness/restlesness, KWIM?

A lot of people just aren't conscious of this, but I know a lot of us here are. Also, I shield them from comercials as much as possible at this point, but I'm also trying to teach them to be smart about the manipulation inherent in advertising.