I am loosing control..please help

[lcarlson90]

Just thinking about writing this post makes me sad but I need help and I just don't know what else to do...

DS is 6 and he has always been a hyperactive child. Rules and listening have always been hard for him. Despite the discipline issues he was always a pretty happy kid. He started K this year and was having a hard time sitting still enough to focus and do his work. The teacher was also concerned that he might harm himself or other children unintentionally because of his hyperactivity. About 6 months ago he was formally diagnosed with ADHD and we started him on a mild medication (not a stimulant). It has helped some with the hyperactivity but not with focus or other behaviors.

Here comes the hard part....My DS has become increasingly mean and rude. He talks back almost constantly. He always disagrees with whatever we say. When he gets upset with me he will ignore me and give me dirty looks. His catch phrase is, "I don't care." When we go to see my parent's or in-laws he is no longer friendly and talkative. He basically refuses to talk when they ask him questions. I don't feel like this is normal 6 year old behavior but I don't know if it's the ADHD or another disorder or if he is just a brat. We still do time-outs and we take away his DS and TV time but it just doesn't seem to be working.

My heart is just breaking because I want him to be happy and have friends and I am afraid that he will grow up to be a depressed and angry boy. A co-worker's teenage child recently committed suicide so that is always in the back of my mind too. I just feel helpless and I don't know what to do.

DS has a Psychiatrist who doesn't seem to do much other than prescribe drugs but I am looking into a counselor today. Any other ideas on what I can do?

[brittone2]

nak-
I actually don't think what you described is all that uncommon for a 6-7 yo. My oldest child is 7, and has always been very well-mannered and polite overall. 7 has been a bit of a preview to the teen years. It is everyone else's fault, he rolls his eyes, makes faces, etc.
(eta: and while he has a lot of friends, he isn't in school, where he'd be exposed to more of this and probably carry more of that over to home. And we still get it here ;) ).

We don't have rudeness with other adults yet thankfully.

I think a good bit of this is not uncommon at that age.

How is he adapting at school? Does he have friends? Does he get one on one time at home? Does he get some positive reinforcement? When my DS1 is being a bear, I have to remember to not let it push us apart (since his is very much age appropriate behavior...doesn't mean it is okay, but it is part of growing up). I have to force myself to spend time focusing on reconnecting and focusing on the positive behaviors that he does do (he is always willing to help me out, etc.).

The not speaking to relatives, etc. would bother me the most, and I'm kind of stumped on what's going on there.

[gatorsmom]

Just thinking about writing this post makes me sad but I need help and I just don't know what else to do...

DS is 6 and he has always been a hyperactive child. Rules and listening have always been hard for him. Despite the discipline issues he was always a pretty happy kid. He started K this year and was having a hard time sitting still enough to focus and do his work. The teacher was also concerned that he might harm himself or other children unintentionally because of his hyperactivity. About 6 months ago he was formally diagnosed with ADHD and we started him on a mild medication (not a stimulant). It has helped some with the hyperactivity but not with focus or other behaviors.

Here comes the hard part....My DS has become increasingly mean and rude. He talks back almost constantly. He always disagrees with whatever we say. When he gets upset with me he will ignore me and give me dirty looks. His catch phrase is, "I don't care." When we go to see my parent's or in-laws he is no longer friendly and talkative. He basically refuses to talk when they ask him questions. I don't feel like this is normal 6 year old behavior but I don't know if it's the ADHD or another disorder or if he is just a brat. We still do time-outs and we take away his DS and TV time but it just doesn't seem to be working.

My heart is just breaking because I want him to be happy and have friends and I am afraid that he will grow up to be a depressed and angry boy. A co-worker's teenage child recently committed suicide so that is always in the back of my mind too. I just feel helpless and I don't know what to do.

DS has a Psychiatrist who doesn't seem to do much other than prescribe drugs but I am looking into a counselor today. Any other ideas on what I can do?

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Not sure this will help you, but I noticed at that age that Gator started to talk back and developed an attitude. His classmates' parents told me they noticed the same problem with their kids. Some of it is naturally exploring our parental limits. It seemed to be a phase because about 6 months later, Gator seemed to grow out of it.

The other thing I immediately thought is that perhaps your son is being picked on or ridiculed in his class because of his activity level? Do you feel his teacher is patient toward him and accommodates his ADHD in a positive way? Even at his most active? Does he ever come home saying he hates school or his teacher or particular kids? I'd look into that. Maybe this attitude is a defense mechanism.

Have you talked to his teacher? Does he have this attitude at school too? Or is it only at home?

Not sure I helped but hopefully he's just pushing his boundaries and this is a temporary thing. :hug:

[egoldber]

You don't say what medication he is on, but FWIW, we saw similar behaviors to this with my DD when she was on Zoloft. She became belligerent, rude, talking back and really out of control.

I would not rule out a medication side effect and I would ask the psychiatrist about it.

[almostmom]

So sorry you're going through this.

My younger sister had ADHD pretty severely, and so I saw her and a lot of her friends grow up with it. I do think there are many kids with this that do get angry and just have so much trouble getting through regular kid activities. There's no question in our case that ritalin changed my sister's life in terms of her ability to learn at school (she could never have concentrated and listened long enough to learn to read, write, or do math without it). So I just hope that you don't think that meds are the devil, because for kids who need them, they can make a whole world of difference.

I also know from my experience how hard it is for a kid who can't focus or sit still in class or at home. They are always getting yelled at by teachers and parents to do the next task, or to not do something. They get SO much negative attention - I mean, believe me, I know how hard it is, trust me. And I think that negativity just affects their self-esteem, which can lead to bad behavior. Why behave when you still have people yelling at you?

Just my first thoughts after reading your post --- again, sorry you're going through this.

[pinkmomagain]

I also know from my experience how hard it is for a kid who can't focus or sit still in class or at home. They are always getting yelled at by teachers and parents to do the next task, or to not do something. They get SO much negative attention - I mean, believe me, I know how hard it is, trust me. And I think that negativity just affects their self-esteem, which can lead to bad behavior. Why behave when you still have people yelling at you?

This is the first thing that came to my mind as well.

Although, meds don't obliterate all the ADHD symptoms, I would think that you should be seeing a significant improvement in hyperactivity and focus. As someone whose daughter has adhd and is successfully treated on meds, I would be speaking to the psychiatrist about an adjustment in meds. Perhaps this dosage is off or this is just not the right one for your son. My dd is currently on Intuiv (nonstimulant) and is doing well. For a few years she was on FocalinXR (stimulant) and also did very well. There are several options out there.

[hellokitty]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this. FWIW, I notice that age 6-7 is a very, "sassy" age, when it comes to back/rude talk and I don't even have girls, I have boys. So, to some extent, I think that it's not uncommon for kids to act this way during the 6-7 yr old age group.

[Fairy]

My own 6yo has developed quite the independence and knows how to talk back, for which he sufffers consequences, and it seems that alot of his peers are getting more testy than when they were younger. So, i do think a level of this is normal. But what you describe would concern me, too, and I think the med side effects could be part of it. Talking with your psychiatrist seems in order to me. Sending hugs.

[lcarlson90]

The other thing I immediately thought is that perhaps your son is being picked on or ridiculed in his class because of his activity level? Do you feel his teacher is patient toward him and accommodates his ADHD in a positive way? Even at his most active? Does he ever come home saying he hates school or his teacher or particular kids? I'd look into that. Maybe this attitude is a defense mechanism.

Have you talked to his teacher? Does he have this attitude at school too? Or is it only at home?

Thankfully DS has a great teacher. She has three boys of her own who all have some level of ADHD so she is extremely patient and understanding with him. She has said that she thinks DS gets down on himself because he has a hard time focusing and getting is work done. I do think he has a hard time making friends because of his behavior. He had a lot of friends in preschool but I think that now that the kids are more mature they don't enjoy his type of play. I try to give him a lot of positive reinforcement because I try to compensate for him feeling like he is the "bad kid."


You don't say what medication he is on, but FWIW, we saw similar behaviors to this with my DD when she was on Zoloft. She became belligerent, rude, talking back and really out of control.

He is on Intinuiv which is a non-stimulant. I have definitely noticed since he started this medication that he has these emotional break-downs where he cries for no reason but the rudeness and anger seemed to start before he was even on medication. We were planning to start a new medication today (Straterra), but DS tried to take it but the pill was too big to swallow. I am waiting to hear back from the Psych about what to do next.

I would feel better if I knew this was just normal 6 year old boy behavior but my worst fear is that this is something more and he will slip into some sort of depression. I would expect kids at this age to be rude and sassy occasionally but this seems constant. I almost feel like he really does not like his family. For those of you who said you experienced the back talk and rudeness at this age how did you deal with it?

[brittone2]

You don't have to answer this here, but how is your relationship with him? Can you find ways to connect, doing things he likes? My DS1 loves to be read to, and that's how we connect at the end of a hard day. He loves to read by himself, but loves if I come snuggle and read with him.

In your DS"s circumstance, there is a lot to tease out. Is there bullying? Is he feeling insecure? Does he have real friends? Does he feel frustrated with his own behavior?

I know when my kids are at their worst behavior-wise, that is often a red flag for me that something is amiss. And when we are stuck in an ugly cycle at home of their behavior being off and me being super irritable about it, it almost always helps if we can back up, refocus, and rebuild our relationship. There's a saying I once read over at GCM that people who don't feel good don't act "good". We have to find ways to refill their love tank :) It is really, really hard to stay connected with your kid when their behavior is pushing you away, but I think it is critical to try to maintain the relationship.

That said, in your case there are a lot of other variables...whether meds are playing a part, whether your DS can articulate at his age how things are going at school (socially, academically, etc.). How much is typical 6-7 yo behavior and how much is over and beyond that because of complicating factors?

[jse107]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this. FWIW, I notice that age 6-7 is a very, "sassy" age, when it comes to back/rude talk and I don't even have girls, I have boys. So, to some extent, I think that it's not uncommon for kids to act this way during the 6-7 yr old age group.

That's what we have going on at my house too. He will be lucky to live to be 7 at this point! ;)

[gatorsmom]

I would expect kids at this age to be rude and sassy occasionally but this seems constant. I almost feel like he really does not like his family. For those of you who said you experienced the back talk and rudeness at this age how did you deal with it?

When Gator was going through it, it felt pretty constant to me too! In order to get through it, I treated him like a little adult, which is how I think he expect to be treated. Part of that was not accepting the rudeness or dirty looks. When he'd roll his eyes at me and say, "Whatever mom!" I'd kind of stop him in his tracks and ask him if that was a nice thing to say. I just wouldn't let that behavior pass. And I'd give praise and encouragement when he behaved politely and kindly.

You might notice a difference in his behavior this summer, away from the pressures of the classroom and his classmates. That could help you determine what is behind his disagreeable behavior.

[StantonHyde]

You have gotten good ideas here. It also never hurts to see a therapist. I have had one tell me that my son's behavior was perfectly normal for his age. Grrrrreaattttttttt!! And then she gave me ideas to deal with it!

[tiapam]

I'll give my standard advice - if it were my kid, I would rule out the possibility of any physical issues, in particular thyroid disease, to my satisfaction. Because I don't trust that a doc would catch it. And I have been both hypo and hyper and have experienced the mental and emotional symptoms. Honestly, when I try to imagine what it would have felt like to have that as a kid, it sounds a little like what you describe.

I think a full physical is in order. And I would also have a talk with DS beforehand to talk over how he feels physically, ask specific questions about parts of the body and if he is having any pain or discomfort.

The other thing I would look into is allergies or sensitivity to some food or additive/dye. My DS's demeanor has improved a lot now that he rarely eats anything with artificial food dye in it. That's mostly thanks to the reading I did here on that topic! I did take DS to the doc specifically for his issues and they did allergy and thyroid tests (the latter at my insistence, it runs in the family) that did not show any issues. They cannot test for the food dye, so I just cut it all the way and do feel a difference. Don't be misled by normal thyroid tests though as you can still be suffering from symptoms and test normal.

[bubbaray]

The behavior sounds normal to me, but you know your child best.

[C99]

Agree that this is really very normal 6-8 year old behavior.

[essnce629]

Sounds just like DS1 who is 7!

I don't have this book, but it's been on my wishlist and when I read the reviews a lot of people said this is the depressed, moody, I hate everything, talking back age! Maybe 6 is the same way! Apparently, it's supposed to get better at 8!!! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0440506506

[daisymommy]

So sorry you're going through this.

My younger sister had ADHD pretty severely, and so I saw her and a lot of her friends grow up with it. I do think there are many kids with this that do get angry and just have so much trouble getting through regular kid activities. There's no question in our case that ritalin changed my sister's life in terms of her ability to learn at school (she could never have concentrated and listened long enough to learn to read, write, or do math without it). So I just hope that you don't think that meds are the devil, because for kids who need them, they can make a whole world of difference.

I also know from my experience how hard it is for a kid who can't focus or sit still in class or at home. They are always getting yelled at by teachers and parents to do the next task, or to not do something. They get SO much negative attention - I mean, believe me, I know how hard it is, trust me. And I think that negativity just affects their self-esteem, which can lead to bad behavior. Why behave when you still have people yelling at you?

Just my first thoughts after reading your post --- again, sorry you're going through this.

:yeahthat: Except in my son's case it is Dexedrine medication. I was told by 2 different child psychiatrists that they have had absolutely no success with non-stimulant medication for ADHD. They don't even prescribe it anymore for that reason.

I would try something else.