updated 6/19 first post. Please help me: Nursing twins.....not going well

[veronica]

I thought it was, but it is apparently not. DS's were born at 6lbs7oz and 6lbs4ounces. They each dropped weight in the hospital. One of our sons dropped 14 ounces, but he had breathing issues and was on an IV only for more than 48 hours, so he could not nurse or bottle feed.

when we arrived home last week, we had the obligatory ped. visit the next day, to check weights. the dr. seemed nice about it and wants to see us this thursday. Because one of the boys failed the car seat challenge, we have a nurse service coming out to weight check the boys as well. She was here last week, the day after the Dr. visit, and her weights were on target with the Dr. scale. She was here today and DS's only gained 2 and 4 ounces each.

Needless to day, she was stern and said "that is not good". They should be back to birthweight at two weeks old (tomorrow). They still have to gain 12 and 8 ounces to get there. she immediately questioned my hydration and milk supply (I'm drinking 1.5 gallons of water a day!) and my let down is fierce. I'm not pumping much since I am feeding them on demand but they are very sleepy babies and go close to 3hrs. between feeds , and they said I should nurse every two hours.

I am devastated. Now they want us to supplement with formula. The nurse called my ped. today who had their nurse instruct us to give a bottle of 1-2 ounces of formula after each and every nursing session. We tried that this afternnoon and ......DS threw everything up. So , I feel like we are being forced to overfeed them.

I am devastated. I view supplementing as the first step in me quitting nursing, as if nursing twins was not scary/hard enough for me. Why would the boys nurse well, if they learn that a bottle comes right after it. the nurse said I could just do the formula until they are back to birth weight and then quit but won't they lose weight then? then I will get in trouble for that!!!

I got a speech from the visiting nurse today about how important it is to gain early on, so their organs and bodies get off to a good start and it is most critical now. I feel like a horrible mom. I've been crying ever since she left at noon.

How do I nurse two babies, do two bottles and pump? I feel like the supplementing will just kill all hopes of nursing, which is emotional for me to do as it is....

any advice? Did anyone have other instructions on supplementing formula for early weight gain? is it excessive to do bottle after every feed?

sorry for spelling issues, I'm typing through tears now....

6/19 update:
so, I kept meaning to come back and update. we went to the ped. two days after the nurse service told us to supplement, and our ped. had agreed as well. there are several docs in our practice and the one we saw in person, was adament that we could have been supplementing with BF. She told us, that ounce for ounce, they have the same caloric intake (bm and formula). We were livid at that point , that we had been misdirected earlier, and we let her know. But, the news then was also good, because overall, she was happy with the boys' weight gain for that week. We were relieved.

We went back on 6/14 and guess what?????? One of the boys gained 19 ounces in 12 days and the other gained 15 ounces. They were well passed birthweight. We were told to keep doing what we were doing......which is killing me. I am nursing , pumping out what is left and then, if the boys are cranky, supplementing it right away or saving it. Unfortunately, my supply is just enough for the boys and I can't save a ton, which is dissappointing, since I used to oversupply for one baby. I get so tired, that if I skip a pumping, I do use a bit of formula and wish I didn't have to.

That said, I have good days and very bad days. One of the boys has a terrible latch and I can't correct it myself. Often times, my mom is here and hasn't seen a LC help out , so she can't really help me relatch him. I'm debating on just bottle feeding him, since he gets supplemented the most , after a nursing, due to his poor nursing. Add to that, that his reflux is much worse now that he is eating more and waking more. We already had to adjust zantac for both of them and I think it needs to be done yet again. You can see their entire bodies just "constrict" and a bunch of milk just poors out. Poor babies.....and it's tough to see all that milk come out :(

I have my nursing pillow almost permanently attached to me. I miss my older kids so much. School is out now and I just don't know if I have it in me to go the long run, especially with all of the issues. If I could just pump 5-6 times a day and get enough to bottle feed both all day, I would . But for some reason, I can only get a total of 6 ounces per pump session at the most (yet I'm still nursing all day so I imagine I could get more if I did not nurse). That's less than I used to get with ODC's.

DD told me she is mad because "I am cheating on her with the babies" and I cried. The boys were one month yesteray, and I want to get to two months. After that, depending on how the reflux is, I may call it a day. I hate to type that but , emotionally, as well as physically, I am not handling this well. It's the guilt of stoppping BF that keeps me doing it. If I could stop, and not feeli guilty, I likely would. In the meantime, I keep trying....

thanks for all the encouragement. I could not have made it this far without all of you!:grouphug:

[Katigre]

Ok, first of all - deep breaths. It doesn't sound like an insurmountable issue at all, especially since you've got a great milk letdown and supply.

1. For newborns, especially little newborns, going 3 hours between feeds is too long and will not help them gain, just maintain. This happened to DD when she was newborn too - she got a terrible cold and basically hibernated for a week to recover, falling into a 'perfect' every-3-hours by day and every-5 hours at night- feeding schedule. Except nursing that way meant she gained only an ounce or so in an entire week and it was not good at all. Once she recovered and started nursing every 2 hours she gained just fine and I never had to supplement.

Wake them to feed if necessary, do many little feeds (it will be basically nursing 24/7 for awhile), but aim for 10-12 feeds per day per baby.

2. Do not supplement yet - no way. Wait another week to see if you can help them gain through nursing. Their latches need to get stronger and better established, and they're not dropping weight! If they were losing weight that would be one thing, but they're slow gainers instead which is another category. I think they're jumping the gun by recommending formula instead of helping your babies get more out of the breast.

3. Strategies for nursing two - do you have contacts in La Leche League or on more natural/crunchy message boards online where moms of twins who have nursed successfully hang out? I know several moms of twins who have exclusively nursed without supplementing - but you need supportive dr.'s to do it too.

[BeachBum]

I don't have a lot of time to respond, but wanted to chime in quickly.
I nursed my twin boys until they were 18 months. We had weight gain issues in the beginning... sleepy boys....and they just weren't getting enough. I got similar advice and went with it. We supplemented for about a week. I also had to pump after each feeding because my supply just wasn't there because they kept falling asleep while nursing. I also wanted to make sure I wasn't letting that supplement interrupt my supply.

I thought my boys were nursing well, but they weren't actually getting anything. My boys started new nursing sessions about every 1.5 hours. I could hardly get up in between nursing, the supplement, and pumping before nursing again. It was a very hard time.

In my experience, my doctor and lactation consultant didn't want me to realize how concerned they actually were about my boys because they thought I would freak out. Instead, I almost didn't take things seriously enough. If your doctor says supplement, I would do it. I just don't think the risk/ benefit is there to do anything else. With me, that little bit of formula really helped them get strong enough to perfect their latch and be awake enough to get a full feed. My boys weren't loosing weight, they just weren't gaining enough.

I just wanted to share my story because I do not think supplementing is "the beginning of the end" of nursing. You can do this. Formula is not the enemy! It really will help you and your kids get over this hump!

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I just wanted to share my story because I do not think supplementing is "the beginning of the end" of nursing. You can do this. Formula is not the enemy! It really will help you and your kids get over this hump!
:yeahthat:

i too disagree with the whole notion that supplementation with formula somehow indicates the beginning of the end of nursing. IMO supplementing does NOT automatically equal failure at BFing...honestly, i wish that whole idea of that would just go away, us mamas don't need any more guilt as it is!:hug:

i don't have twins, but i had a preemie DD who was very very weak in the beginning (too sleepy, didn't have coordination to nurse properly and for long enough periods of time) and had to be in the NICU for three and half weeks due to her feeding issues and other problems (apnea). In the beginning before my milk came in, i was asked to supplement with formula (15ml after every feeding) because she was a preemie and so little. I had to pump after every feeding as well. Even once my milk came in, my breastmilk that i pumped (that was r tube-fed and later bottle-fed to her) had to be fortified with Neosure (preemie formula) so she could get the extra calories to gain enough weight. At her 1month appt the ped said she was okay with her weight but that if we were still giving her bottles to add the Neosure. eventually at about 5-6 weeks as she got better and better at nursing and was gaining weight she was off bottles completely, and i finally stopped pumping and she was exclusively breastfeeding. she is almost 3 mos now and is still exclusively breastfed (and at her 2mo appt was in 75%ile for weight, even tho she was barely 1mo adjusted age). so, another story of someone who supplemented in the beginning (for the first month) and was able to eventually breastfeed exclusively without any major issues. so, based on my experience, i don't really think that supplementing in the beginning is such a horrible thing or that it automatically means you won't be able to EBF eventually (if that is what you want). :hug:

[Dr C]

First of all--don't give up!
Second of all, if your ped says you need to supplement, you probably do need to. Sometimes babies need to gain a bit of weight in order to become strong enough to be able to nurse effectively at the breast. If you can boost your supply (ideally by pumping at least after the daytime feeds), that would be good--that way when they are strong enough they will be able to get full feeds at the breast.
Third, please contact a lactation consultant. They can help you by doing pre-post weights and figuring out how much the babies are transferring, and by making sure they are latching well and transferring milk as efficiently as possible. They can also counsel you on alternate ways to suppliment if you're resistant to a bottle--nipple syringe, SNS, etc.
Fourth--let's say, worst case scenario--that you need some supplement long term: remember that any breast milk (even 2 oz per day) is beneficial for the babies. But I have seen many moms of twins get through this phase of needing to supplement and get back to exclusive breastfeeding.
Good luck. You will get through this. Breastfeeding twins is REALLY tough--much tougher than breastfeeding a singleton, and you should congratulate yourself on how far you've come already. You can do this!

[Hawkeyewife]

Everybody has such great advice.

I just learned something interesting about newborn weights that may be interesting and help you through this. Remember all the water they pumped you with at the hospital to keep your blood pressure before the epidural. Well, your babies may have been born with a few more ounces on board than without the water and of course they "lost" all that extra weight in their diapers over the first day or so. Maybe their birth weight is a bit skewed to begin with and you are doing fine. Think about how you have persevered so far, you are a wonderful Momma, keep it up! Many Mommas would have given up by now. Good JOB!

[TwinFoxes]

I was going to suggest waking them up, and I see a PP did. I'm actually surprised your ped didn't suggest it. We had to wake our babies, it's not something that anyone wants to do. But honestly, it worked fine.

As for supplementing, I supplemented my (very) low birth weight babies. I nursed until 15 months, and only stopped because I had to start medication that was counter indicated. It's not the beginning of the end if you don't want it to be, especially if you're making enough milk.

I also think you're giving your babies (geniuses I'm sure!) a little too much credit. I don't think they'll figure out this early on that a bottle is coming, and thus not try to nurse. I think most babies just hink "FOOD!" and not "hmm, I think I'll wait for the next course". :) Also, my LC, who I loved, said she's never seen an actual case of nipple confusion in her years of experience. so I don't think it's as common as people assume. Obviously it happens, but like she said, my girls didn't get confused. They also have those supplemental systems, where you attach a tiny hose connected to a bottle to your nipple, so the baby is "nursing" but getting formula. I don't know if that will work in your situation though. Good luck! You can do it! And if you don't, you're still a good mama.

[twowhat?]

I nursed my twins for 18 months as well, and during the day I woke them up every 2 hours to eat. It was hard to wake up sleeping babies - DH helped me and sometimes we'd strip them naked and tickle their feet until they woke. It could take a good 10 minutes just to wake them. That was honestly one of the most frustrating things. I also had to stimulate them to keep them awake while nursing. Ticking the backs of their necks helped. Breast compressions helped because it helped the milk flow more quickly at the beginning when they were still awake. I did have to supplement in the beginning with formula for a few days not because of supply, but because I didn't have a pump yet and the babies were jaundiced.

As soon as I got my pump, I pumped after EVERY feeding and then supplemented with 1-2 oz of pumped breastmilk.

I know EXACTLY how you feel about feeling like you're forcing down the formula because they throw it all back up so quickly. I HATED supplementing because of this exact feeling but knew that I had to. Switching to a very low-flow nipple helped (those hospital bottles sucked! Once I got home and we used our BornFree bottles, it was much better). Also, as they grow it gets much easier for them to handle being "topped off" with 1-2 oz. DH and I referred to supplementing as "topping them off" LOL because that's exactly how it felt...that we were filling them up to spilling over the brim...

Mine barely gained back their birthweight in 2 weeks. I pumped after every feeding for a couple of months, supplementing 1-2 oz after each feeding and storing the rest in the freezer. We woke them every 2 hours at night until they gained back their birthweight, then my ped said to quit setting an alarm at night but continue with every 2 hours during the day. I always fed them tandem. Having both babies nurse at the same time (I think) helped with keeping production high, and ensuring that both babies get to that fatty hindmilk. I'd switch sides each time I nursed in case there were differences in supply between the two sides.

You can do this. BUT, I TOTALLY agree with PPs that if it would make your life easier to supplement with formula, DO IT. If you want to make breastfeeding a long-term goal, then pump after every feeding. I found that having 2 sets of pump parts helped. That way I didn't have to wash after every pumping session. DH also helped to make sure my stuff was washed. The easiest way to do it was to keep a big bowl of warm soapy water on the counter - after pumping I threw all the parts in there. Then all it took was a quick rinse in hot water and they were ready to use again.

Good luck. Breastfeeding twins is not easy. There is nothing wrong with supplementing with formula and it does not mean you've failed by any means. If formula would help to reduce the stress of having infant twins AND older children in your house, then it is totally and completely worth it.

eta: totally and completely agree with PPs that formula can help get you over that hump. Just protect your supply by pumping whenever you supplement with formula.

eta again - we had the same experience with the nurses. Ours lost more than 10% of their birthweight during our 5 day hospital stay and they did a great job of making me feel like crap about it. I soooo feel for you. You will get through this just fine!! Hang in there!

[ahrimie]

Just like everyone else said, supplementing does NOT mean failure! I know nursing and struggling through that is such an emotional time but in the end, whether you nurse or you bottle feed or do a combination of the two, you ARE providing for your child. In the end, it should just matter that they are growing and thriving--not so much in HOW you did it.

DD had great birth weight but because my milk came in super duper late due to other medical reasons for me, we had to supplement with formula. She was too sleepy to nurse and would always fall asleep. Nipple confusion doesn't happen in all newborns but it did for her; so while it took a lot of work to fix, we did it and nursed until 8 months! The only reason I stopped was because I couldn't keep up with her demand and I started look ghastly :(

I would do what the doctors tell you to do and do what you can to keep nursing once they are at their birth weight. For us, supplementing and pumping was ESSENTIAL to nursing exclusively.

Don't lose hope and rock on!!

[essnce629]

My only advice is to get a certified lactation consultant who has experience with twins to come out to your house and watch you breastfeed, weigh the babies before and after the feeds, etc. It usually costs $60-$100 for the first visit for them to come to you, but it's definately worth it. Some insurances even cover it. Here's how to find one in your area: http://www.ilca.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3432

I've heard many stories of doctors and nurses telling moms they HAD to supplement, only to find out that the babies were doing just fine and getting enough milk after meeting with a lactation consultant. Lactation consultants are the experts in breastfeeding, not doctors and nurses. When I was in nursing school I pretty much got zero education regarding breastfeeding.

Now if the lactation consultant says you have to supplement then I would. But there are plently of ways to supplement and that doesn't have to always involve formula and bottles. You can supplement with your pumped milk using an SNS, syringe, etc. if nipple confusion is a worry. I also had a client with a baby with very low weight gain who had to add a human milk fortifier to her pumped milk. This is different than formula and just adds additional calories to your milk to help speed up weight gain. Here's some more info: http://preemies.about.com/od/glossary/g/HMF.htm

Keep us updated and you are doing great already!

[gatorsmom]

Oh Sweetie! I could just kill that mean nurse who was stern with you. SHE should try breastfeeding twins before she gives you the third degree.

I have been in your place. My twins were approximately the size of yours and they lost weight consistently for the first 6 weeks. My doctor wasn't happy and I actually had a mean nurse home visit too. I pretty much put her in her place (gotta love those raging pregnancy hormones!).

I haven't read the other posters' advice but I'm sure it's good. I can just tell you what I did. My twins were very sleepy too. I had to move heaven and earth to keep them awake to feed them. I had them both naked with wet washcloths laying on them to keep them awake to eat and even that didn't work. So, I did supplement. I used a dropper and later a small cup (like the size of a medicine cup) to little-by-little feed them formula (using the tiny cup was the idea of a lactation consultant at our hospital). This could be done while they were asleep. The liquid in the cup would wake them and they'd drink it. At first I was afraid that supplementing would hurt my supply. So, I also pumped after our nursing sessions. Honestly, I spent like 8 - 10 hours each day either nursing, pumping or supplementing with formula every 2 hours. But it worked. After a few weeks, they got strong enough and started to stay awake enough that I could stop the supplemental feedings and switch over to exclusively breast feeding. And when they were able to stay awake, I was able to breast feed them simultaneously, freeing up a bit more of my time to catch up on housework.

Don't give up! These weeks are absolutely exhausting and frustrating! I know, I really do understand. You are stuck in the house doing what seems like nothing but feeding babies. Call everyone you know to come over and do some laundry for you, do a little shopping for you, do a bit of housework for you. And just focus on feeding those twins. And see if you can find a nurse who is also a lactation consultant. Or find a doctor who understands that you REALLY want to continue breastfeeding. Someone who won't give you a guilt trip about your babies not gaining weight.

And come back here to vent!

[Melaine]

Veronica! Did I miss the welcome home thread? I had no idea the boys were here! What fantastic weights! Congratulations and that they are home so soon is just wonderful.

I think others have better advice than I do, I didn't have a great nursing experience; it was a battle from the beginning and I eventually lost. BUT I will say that I agree if you haven't had a consultation with a qualified (experienced with twins) LC then I say you should set that up ASAP. It is very different working with them than a random nurse or doctor. And I'm not 100% sure I would supplement at this point either, to be honest. I really think you should talk to the LC. Supplementing is a huge pain and I think it was all the steps I had to complete (nursing, then pumping, then bottlefeeding BM, then bottlefeeding formula) that eventually ruined my nursing experience. It is just so much to do and it is SO exhausting.

But you already have done so much better than I was able to, so don't give up or be discouraged. Hang in there! Congrats!

[Tanya]

Congrats on your big twins! And I think you are doing great!

And unless someone has actually gone through this, they have no idea!

I fully intended to bf my twins and started out that way. When my little girl was almost a week old, she became lethargic and difficult to wake and feed. *I* was concerned. The doctors actually weren't. We were going in every other day for weight checks and they were gaining slowly, but they were gaining. Both had wet diapers, etc. I was trying to wake her constantly and struggled to barely get an ounce in her. Anyway, when my girl was one week old and the sleeping/eating thing seemed worse, the pediatrician said to trust my instincts and we went to the hospital. She had a low temp, which I guess sometimes young babies can have a low temp instead of a high temp. We went through all the tests including the spinal tap and she was given antibiotics and lots of fluids. We were there for 36 hours and they never found any infections, etc. She did perk up and started actually waking and crying to eat. I pumped and gave formula with little actual nursing just because I was SCARED at that point. My boy twin was and is all breastfed (actually wouldn't take a bottle for 3 months).
Anyway, when they were 3 weeks old, I consulted with a lactation consultant and told her that my girl never seemed satisfied after breastfeeding and would want to eat again 30 minutes later and if I gave her a full breast, she didn't make a dent in it like the boy does. So, we did the weighing before and after feedings and found that while she was getting some breastmilk, she wasn't getting enough. She called her a "lazy eater". Due to having twins and also older girls, I was never brave enough or had the time/energy to work at getting her fulltime on the breast, so she gets mostly formula while the boy gets all breastmilk.

I'm sharing my story, not giving advice. I have 4 kids. I breastfed my first 2 for 2 years each and had never bought any formula until my girl twin. I was confident and comfortable breastfeeding and could tell that she was latching fine and like I said, she was gaining weight and had wet diapers just fine and the docs said her muscle tone was fine even the very day we went to the hospital. This certainly isn't to scare you or anything. I would have been one of those people to say "don't supplement", if they are latching, they are doing fine, blah blah blah. *I* knew something was wrong with my baby. I had never had a baby that couldn't be woken up or kept awake or didn't wake up on their own to eat, etc. I knew something was wrong with her.

Sometimes you just have to do what works for you and your family. It may not be what you planned. I had a lactation consultant tell me to pump after every feeding, etc. and it just wasn't realistic for me at that point. I was EXHAUSTED. I hadn't even recovered from my blood loss after their birth and we were at Childrens all worried about our girl, away from our older two again and I still had to take care of my boy twin and keep up with nursing him, etc. We didn't even get to get any sleep until 5am from getting at the hospital the previous evening. So, if she'd been my only baby and I didn't have to deal with a preschooler and an older kid with various activities, etc., maybe I would have been able to get her on more breastmilk and less or no formula. Maybe not. She's doing fine. We're all doing fine.

Don't beat yourself up. It's hard work.

[veronica]

Thank you all for the great support and information. My mind is reeling from all the great responses.

I had posted before giving birth to the twins, that I live in the middle of nowhere, so finding a LC is pretty tough. I will try the link above but am not hopeful. I did call the hospital LC consultant and spoke with her yesterday. While at the hospital, she had all positive things to say about DS's latch and that I had a great breast shape for feeding. When DS2 finally latched it worked great and she was supportive. Of course, it all goes downhill once we are home......anyway, she said that if the physicians think we need to supplement, we likely should but that she recalls my nursing going so well, that she thinks it will only be for a week or so , so that the boys can get bigger and stronger and improve their suck.

On a personal note, it's not that I believe supplementing is the end of BF in general.....I meant likely for me. BF has not come naturally to me. I have never loved it. I BF DD for 6 months and DS for 4 (horrible reflux issues that left us emotionally drained after eliminating everything from my diet for months....). I knew this would be hard.

It is almost indescribable to explain the process involved in nursing twins, so I truly value the twin mom experiences above, as well as everyone's kind words. It sounds easy to "wake them up often" but when you are stripping, singing, jostling, tickling, wetting them and doing it x2, plus trying for a good latch, keeping them on and making sure they take enough in, .....it's pretty much impossible.

Today has been hard. Tandem nursing isn't so easy with all of these issues but I try it to save some time. Then, we are doing 1oz bottles afterwards , but only every other feeding. We are struggling for them to accept the bottles too. Then I pump. When I am done with it, I look at the clock and it's been 2hrs. I don't even think they are hungry at that point and we have to start over. It's insane. It doesnt' even make sense to me. I nursed at 2pm and the session ended at 2:30. At 2:30-2:45, I prepared bottles and started that process. It ended at 3:15. How on earth are they hungry at 4? At 4, I put them on the breast and they could care less. So , then I pumped most of it out and froze it. Now, I'm giving them some time to "get hungry" so I can do the breast again and then more formula.

all in all, I think they are taking in a lot less BM today than before. The formula is holding them over longer so it's now even harder to wake them.

This is the worse experience ever.

[veronica]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. What happened to your daughter, happened to my older son as well. He was 4 days old, way under temp and would not eat. He was nothing like DD so off to the Dr. we went and then the ER. It was a grueling time at the hospital. The spinal tap, cultures, urines, etc. were awful. Plus, leaving DD again so soon. I completely understand that happened to you and send you big hugs. I am thrilled that her tests came back ok, as did DS's. I can't imagine going through the experience now with one of the twins.


Congrats on your big twins! And I think you are doing great!

And unless someone has actually gone through this, they have no idea!

I fully intended to bf my twins and started out that way. When my little girl was almost a week old, she became lethargic and difficult to wake and feed. *I* was concerned. The doctors actually weren't. We were going in every other day for weight checks and they were gaining slowly, but they were gaining. Both had wet diapers, etc. I was trying to wake her constantly and struggled to barely get an ounce in her. Anyway, when my girl was one week old and the sleeping/eating thing seemed worse, the pediatrician said to trust my instincts and we went to the hospital. She had a low temp, which I guess sometimes young babies can have a low temp instead of a high temp. We went through all the tests including the spinal tap and she was given antibiotics and lots of fluids. We were there for 36 hours and they never found any infections, etc. She did perk up and started actually waking and crying to eat. I pumped and gave formula with little actual nursing just because I was SCARED at that point. My boy twin was and is all breastfed (actually wouldn't take a bottle for 3 months).
Anyway, when they were 3 weeks old, I consulted with a lactation consultant and told her that my girl never seemed satisfied after breastfeeding and would want to eat again 30 minutes later and if I gave her a full breast, she didn't make a dent in it like the boy does. So, we did the weighing before and after feedings and found that while she was getting some breastmilk, she wasn't getting enough. She called her a "lazy eater". Due to having twins and also older girls, I was never brave enough or had the time/energy to work at getting her fulltime on the breast, so she gets mostly formula while the boy gets all breastmilk.

I'm sharing my story, not giving advice. I have 4 kids. I breastfed my first 2 for 2 years each and had never bought any formula until my girl twin. I was confident and comfortable breastfeeding and could tell that she was latching fine and like I said, she was gaining weight and had wet diapers just fine and the docs said her muscle tone was fine even the very day we went to the hospital. This certainly isn't to scare you or anything. I would have been one of those people to say "don't supplement", if they are latching, they are doing fine, blah blah blah. *I* knew something was wrong with my baby. I had never had a baby that couldn't be woken up or kept awake or didn't wake up on their own to eat, etc. I knew something was wrong with her.

Sometimes you just have to do what works for you and your family. It may not be what you planned. I had a lactation consultant tell me to pump after every feeding, etc. and it just wasn't realistic for me at that point. I was EXHAUSTED. I hadn't even recovered from my blood loss after their birth and we were at Childrens all worried about our girl, away from our older two again and I still had to take care of my boy twin and keep up with nursing him, etc. We didn't even get to get any sleep until 5am from getting at the hospital the previous evening. So, if she'd been my only baby and I didn't have to deal with a preschooler and an older kid with various activities, etc., maybe I would have been able to get her on more breastmilk and less or no formula. Maybe not. She's doing fine. We're all doing fine.

Don't beat yourself up. It's hard work.

[TwinFoxes]

I remember oh so well finishing the changing, BF, pumping, and looking at the clock and realizing I had to start the whole process in less than an hour. :hug:



This is the worse experience ever.

This breaks my heart. Honestly, at some point you might want to (if YOU want to) give up on nursing and just do formula. I only had the twins, I can't imagine it with other DCs. Many, many hugs.

[twowhat?]

This is the worse experience ever.

That about sums it up. I would describe my experience as "awful" and I wasn't caring for 2 older children at the same time. And I had the help of a fabulous LC. I didn't enjoy nursing until about 3 months when they started going a little longer between feedings and could stay awake for a whole feed because you are right, with all the ticking and stimulating and nursing and pumping and washing and burping and changing x2...then it's time to do it all over again. It can most certainly NOT be described as enjoyable and in all honestly it made it very difficult to bond with the babies at first.

Do the best you can. You gave birth to 2 healthy babies. You gave them a great start in life and no one can take that away from you! If I were in your shoes I would've turned straight to formula and never looked back, so you've already gone above and beyond!

[Melaine]

That about sums it up. I would describe my experience as "awful" and I wasn't caring for 2 older children at the same time. And I had the help of a fabulous LC. I didn't enjoy nursing until about 3 months when they started going a little longer between feedings and could stay awake for a whole feed because you are right, with all the ticking and stimulating and nursing and pumping and washing and burping and changing x2...then it's time to do it all over again. It can most certainly NOT be described as enjoyable and in all honestly it made it very difficult to bond with the babies at first.

Do the best you can. You gave birth to 2 healthy babies. You gave them a great start in life and no one can take that away from you! If I were in your shoes I would've turned straight to formula and never looked back, so you've already gone above and beyond!
:yeahthat: I have to agree with every little bit of that post. It was the worst thing, the most emotional thing, and the most difficult thing I have ever done. But it does get better and it is totally worth it. The fact that you have two other DC makes it so much harder, I am sure. :hug: We are here for you though, and wish we could help more. At least you know there are a bunch of us here who do know what you are going through.

[mikeys_mom]

This is the worse experience ever.

Big :hug: to you. Yes, nursing twins at the very beginning was a pretty terrible experience for me as well. My girls were born at around 5.5lbs each and were slow to gain weight. I think that it was alost 3.5 weeks until they were back at their birthweights. I was so focused on trying to tandem nurse them and was super frustrated that it was so difficult.

I ended up nursing them one at a time, 45 minutes each (because they were super sloooow and sleepy), then took a 15 minute "break" to stand up, stretch, go to the washroom, then time to wake them again to feed them. Oh, did I mention that while I was feeding one, I had the other one in a bouncy chair at my feet and would have to use my foot to rock her back and forth to keep her happy? Fun times...

The only thing that allowed me to keep my sanity in all this was that I supplemented with formula for the night feedings. 10pm was my last nursing session and after that I was so exhausted, that I was so happy to hand off the babies to someone else for a while.

After the first few months it did get easier because they were able to go longer stretches in between feedings and they would nurse for shorter times. I nursed them until about 9 months and stopped because I just found it too all-consuming with 2 other kids to care for as well.

I never pumped because honestly, I have no idea when I would have found the time. I think that you just have to find a solution that works best for you and your family. Either way, breastmilk or formula, your babies will turn out fine. The first few months are so hard but you will get through it!

[scriptkitten]

breastfeeding twins is no joke.

i ended up doing a combo of breastfeeding, pumping, and formula. it was hard. my boobs were either hooked up to a child or a pump around the clock... or i was cleaning/making bottles.

add severe projectile miserable reflux hell on top and let me tell you... i have ptsd.

you just do what you have to to get through.

i made it til 7m.

[JoyNChrist]

You've been given some great advice, so I'm not going to repeat all of it. Except the congratulations - such great, healthy weights!! You're AMAZING!

Just DON'T be hard on yourself. No matter how this turns out (you work through the BFing issues, stop altogether, or do a combination), you have nothing to feel bad about. Twins are rough. And until you've been there, you really just have no idea.

Try some of the tips you've been given, and if you make it work, great. But if you don't...seriously honey, it doesn't make you a bad mom. And if nursing is making an already stressful situation unbearable, it's not worth it. Don't let this define your relationship with your babies.

[citymama]

Oh, sweetie, big hugs. You are doing amazing, amazing work, just recovering after giving birth to those two big babies! My singletons were each smaller than your twins so :bowdown:

I'm sorry you are going through this, but hang in there. I agree re getting a certified LC work with you ASAP. And like the PPs said, if you have to supplement for baby's weight and your sanity, it is not the end of the world and not the end of BFing! I can relate to your angst though, as I type this response at 1.30 am pumping milk for my 12 month old when I travel cross country for my first trip away from her next week.

take care, and I hope your babies thrive and grow quickly!

[Tanya]

Veronica, you've been through the whole hospital thing then, so you know about low temps. How do the twins seem to you? Are you concerned or do you think they are doing fine compared to your older kids as babies?

I think my pediatrician was more concerned right after they were born than I was. I'm a pretty laid back type mom. My 2nd daughter was 6 lb 5 oz at birth and the twins were 6 lb 3 oz and 6 lb 1 oz, so they didnt' seem far off to me. However, the doc had us doing weight checks every other day with the twins and kept talking about them being premature when they were born at 37 w 1 d. Anyway, I'd have to look up their weights, but I suppose they gained slower at first, so maybe that's why. My milk was much much later coming in due to my blood loss, so I think that really affected things.

Since you talked to a LC at the hospital, can you go back there for weight checks before and after feedings? I didn't have to pay anything for doing that and it was at least nice to have my beliefs confirmed that my little girl wasn't getting enough and that's why she ended up in the hospital.

I'm also not one to love breastfeeding. I don't get all mushy and love the feeling of it. Basically, I'm cheap and lazy. Ha ha. I like the convenience of it. I hate packing bottles and washing bottles (thank goodness for my dishwasher) and figuring out how much formula to take places, etc. With that said, I breastfed both of my first two for two years each. So, obviously, I don't hate it. I'm also impatient and hate long feedings and rarely nurse from both sides at one sitting. 10-15 minutes and I'm done and hope they are too.
What I'm saying I guess is while you may not love breastfeeding, consider the alternative too...bottles, formula, money, time, getting your butt out of bed (that's another one for me). I would not let the nurse or doctor and their suggestions be what makes you quit. Do what you want to do.

Now that I have one bf and one bottlefed baby, it is nice at times (especially those early nights) to have dh take care of the bottlefed one. DUring the day, I'm on my own. MY little girl actually takes a lot longer to take a bottle than my guy does to nurse. I know because I often feed them at the same time. However, my girl sleeps through the night and my boy does not. My girl has acid reflux too, so we've had to deal with those issues.

If you want to continue to breastfeed, do so. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing type thing though. My little girl still nurses (the twins are almost 7 months old now) and gets some pumped milk, but she gets mostly formula. It's nice that she does still nurse for times like when I'm tired and don't want to get up to make a bottle or she just needs a little extra or a little comforting.
When the doctors at the hospital wanted to know her exact intake, the LC wanted me to pump exclusively for her, but it just wasn't realistic for me to nurse one full time and also try to pump full time for the other. I have a hate relationship with the pump. I don't have a huge supply, but mine does adjust to what is needed, I just don't have "extra".

Good luck! Once you get past those first weeks, I think it's much less scary about how quickly they can take a turn for the worse, etc. Then you won't have to worry about waking them, etc. I HATED doing that with my little girl. There is something so wrong about waking a sleeping baby.

[gatorsmom]

That about sums it up. I would describe my experience as "awful" and I wasn't caring for 2 older children at the same time. And I had the help of a fabulous LC. I didn't enjoy nursing until about 3 months when they started going a little longer between feedings and could stay awake for a whole feed because you are right, with all the ticking and stimulating and nursing and pumping and washing and burping and changing x2...then it's time to do it all over again. It can most certainly NOT be described as enjoyable and in all honestly it made it very difficult to bond with the babies at first.

Do the best you can. You gave birth to 2 healthy babies. You gave them a great start in life and no one can take that away from you! If I were in your shoes I would've turned straight to formula and never looked back, so you've already gone above and beyond!

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: I agree with all of this too. I hated it, too. I made it to 7 months only because they started to stay awake at feedings, their feeding times became more regular, and we were all starting to get more sleep. BUT, I had a nanny to help with the older 2 kids while I devoted my day to pumping, bfing and supplementing. If I hadn't had the nanny, I think I would have switched to formula and not thought twice about it.

This time is about survival. Not just survival of your twins but of your whole family, including you. As my husband says, twins are a game changer.

[twowhat?]

As my husband says, twins are a game changer.

LOL! My DH says almost the exact same thing: "Twins are a whoooole different ballgame." Though technically we have nothing to compare it to.

[AnnieW625]

I don't have twins but with DD1 I seriously wasn't enthuased about breast feeding, even while pregnant. I just couldn't get excited about it. My mom said I should try it so I did and thankfully DD1 was an easy nurser, but I was all prepared to use formula had she not been an easy nurser or had issues with latching. I would've done what was best for my baby and if that was formula then that would be what I would've done (I had the same criteria for DD2 also). Maybe I fulfilled some prophecy but I didn't love breast feeding either, but was happy I made it to 4 months for DD1, and 3 months for DD2. You do whatever you are comfortable doing and don't feel like you have to do more just because everyone else is doing it too.

Had we had twins I don't think I would've had the guts to nurse twins. It's awesome that there are those where who have done it.

FWIW, DD1 was 6lbs 6oz at birth and lost 8 oz. in a 4 day time span; she didn't hit 10lbs until she was 2 months old; she didn't get back to 7lbs until she was almost a month old. Her pediatrician who didn't have the best bedside manner never complained even if all she gained in a week was a couple of ounces, as long as she was gaining he was happy.

[veronica]

bump for update 6/19

[citymama]

I'm sending you big hugs, V. Just read your update and the news about the babies' growth is fabulous. It breaks my heart to hear you so stressed out. More power to you for nursing twins, period. I would say you should feel no guilt if you're supplementing - a happy mommy = happy kiddies. I'm nursing a singleton and sometimes wish I had given myself more rope so I would have had more time with DD1, although now she's quite used to mama nursing time and we use it as a time to snuggle up and read together. Can the LC bump up the time she spends with you so you can get the latch better figured out?

Sending big hugs and also permission, on behalf of nursing mamas everywhere, to cut yourself some slack!

[twowhat?]

Big hugs to you from here too. It is ROUGH to nurse twins. Dunno how you manage with older children as well. Either way you go - IT WILL GET BETTER.

If you want to try to stick it out with nursing, nursing gets easier as you go. I think for me it was around the 6 week mark when I really felt like I was on cruise control, they could stay awake better for a whole session, they were latching better, eating faster, etc.

If you want to switch to bottles/formula - it will get easier too - someone else can do nighttime feedings. You can involve your older DCs to help with feedings and read to them while they hold babies and bottles. (I'm just throwing this out there, because I have no experience with older DCs and twins!)

You will not go wrong either way. Hang in there!

[marymoo86]

You are doing great. I have no idea what I would do in your shoes. I know it is tough but bm is so much easier for your little guys' reflux as it is more easily digested.

Here's link that describes and shows the Deep Latch technique. It took a little while for DD to 'get it'. But I would tell her each time to open wide and after a couple of weeks it clicked for her.

PPTs your way!

http://www.pumpstation.com/pumpstation/dept.asp?dept_id=3228

[Katigre]

(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

With the projectile spitting up, have you considered doing dairy-free diet for you and dairy-free formula (or hypoallergenic) for the boys? Both of my kids were so dairy sensitive that when I ate it they had the projectile spit up and fussiness, and when I cut it out they rarely spit up and the other symptoms went away too. It would need to be gone from all of their diet - your milk and the supplements.

[ashleybama24]

So sorry you are going through all of this! Big hugs and hope things get easier the older they get. With that said you are an amazing mother to do what you are doing. Most people I know would have already given up so kudos for hanging in there. If you switch to formula to save your sanity and give yourself a break/time with your older kids/a nap that is ok!

[bubbaray]

I EBFd 2 singletons, neither of whom would take a bottle ever and I know how rough that was. I am in awe of you BFg twins, with reflux, and with older children. :bowdown: If it will keep you sane, help your older ones adjust to the larger family and basically just keep the family on an even keel, *I* would totally consider supplementing and/or pumping just a few times a day and moving to bottles.

GOOD LUCK!

[LMPC]

OMG after reading your update, I would say that you are amazing!!!! :bowdown: Just wanted to add that I am sending PT's your way and a HUGE virtual :hug:

[egoldber]

We went back on 6/14 and guess what?????? One of the boys gained 19 ounces in 12 days and the other gained 15 ounces. They were well passed birthweight. We were told to keep doing what we were doing......which is killing me. I am nursing , pumping out what is left and then, if the boys are cranky, supplementing it right away or saving it.

Well first off :cheerleader1: You are doing amazing!

I know I only had a singleton, but I did a similar routine (nursing, pumping and supplementing) for younger DD who was discharged from the NICU at 5 pounds. After she started gaining weight consistently and well, we were told that I could stop the pumping and just nurse her. So that is what I did, and it was much, much easier.

If it were *me*, I would probably just nurse them. If they seem like they need more, then I would offer a supplement of formula. But if they are gaining 19 and 15 ounces in 12 days, they probably don't even need that supplement. You could try going without the supplement for a week or two and then see what their weight gain is like.


We already had to adjust zantac for both of them and I think it needs to be done yet again.

Again, my younger DD ALWAYS had to be at the very highest dosage of Zantac for her weight, which meant we were upping her dose all the time. My peds were OK with giving me verbal dosage changes based on her weight at office visits. In retrospect, I wish I had pushed for a PPI reflux med like Prilosec, Prevacid or Zegerid.


DD told me she is mad because "I am cheating on her with the babies" and I cried. The boys were one month yesteray, and I want to get to two months. After that, depending on how the reflux is, I may call it a day.

I hate to say it, but stopping breastfeeding may not help this a whole lot. If you are the primary caregiver, then you are still responsible for most feedings and that is the time consuming part. Also, my younger DD's reflux was greatly exacerbated by dairy (she had a milk protein intolerance when she was younger) and she would have needed to be on a formula like Alimentum vs. a standard milk based formula. Many reflux babies need a specialized formula and they don't always tolerate it well.

I'm not saying I understand what it is like to be in your shoes, nursing twins with 2 older kids, because I clearly don't. But I just wanted to point out that you can make things easier on yourself so that perhaps nursing does not feel as draining as it currently does. And moving to formula does not cure all ills and can make reflux-y kids worse. :(

[Beth24]

OMG after reading your update, I would say that you are amazing!!!! :bowdown: Just wanted to add that I am sending PT's your way and a HUGE virtual :hug:

Can't say it any better than this!

[veronica]

Again, my younger DD ALWAYS had to be at the very highest dosage of Zantac for her weight, which meant we were upping her dose all the time. My peds were OK with giving me verbal dosage changes based on her weight at office visits. In retrospect, I wish I had pushed for a PPI reflux med like Prilosec, Prevacid or Zegerid.



I hate to say it, but stopping breastfeeding may not help this a whole lot. If you are the primary caregiver, then you are still responsible for most feedings and that is the time consuming part. Also, my younger DD's reflux was greatly exacerbated by dairy (she had a milk protein intolerance when she was younger) and she would have needed to be on a formula like Alimentum vs. a standard milk based formula. Many reflux babies need a specialized formula and they don't always tolerate it well.

I'm not saying I understand what it is like to be in your shoes, nursing twins with 2 older kids, because I clearly don't. But I just wanted to point out that you can make things easier on yourself so that perhaps nursing does not feel as draining as it currently does. And moving to formula does not cure all ills and can make reflux-y kids worse. :(

Fist off, thanks to all for the continued words of support. It gets me through the next feeding!!!

As far as the post above.....yes, we have already been through this with ODS. He developed blood in his stool , at a few weeks old. I stripped everything from my diet, and it kept up for weeks. We tried pumping, while we offered forumula (reg. and then soy) , and nothing was tolerated. he ended up on two doses of prevacid a day and Alimentum for 15 months. he was not diagnosed until 4 months old and I was emotionally spent from everything we were told to do and try.

with the twins, I am all over it already. I've already mentioned going to Alimentum from the get go and am asking for prevacid, at least for Myles, at his checkup on Friday. There is no way I will go through 4 months of all the hoops we did for Cooper!! Poor Myles, his whole body just brings up what he takes in and he tries to sleep through it. And.....the latest is that Griffin is now crying at the breast, while he nurses, same as ODS did , when his symtoms showed up. I just hope the ped. we get on Friday is sympathetic to what we already experienced and knows we can not do it again x2!

[egoldber]

I hope the ped is open to giving you Prevacid right away! You all sound so miserable. :hug:

[AnnieW625]

Hugs to you. We never tried Prevacid with DD2 as we were able to finally get decent results from Zantac at .06ml. Also if you bottle feed I can't recommend the Playtex Drop Ins enough. These seriously helped DD2's spit up and gassiness a lot. DD2 is now almost 14 months and hasn't had Zantac in almost 2 weeks so there is hope. I'll be thinking about you guys.

[gatorsmom]

I have my nursing pillow almost permanently attached to me. I miss my older kids so much. School is out now and I just don't know if I have it in me to go the long run, especially with all of the issues. If I could just pump 5-6 times a day and get enough to bottle feed both all day, I would . But for some reason, I can only get a total of 6 ounces per pump session at the most (yet I'm still nursing all day so I imagine I could get more if I did not nurse). That's less than I used to get with ODC's.

DD told me she is mad because "I am cheating on her with the babies" and I cried. The boys were one month yesteray, and I want to get to two months. After that, depending on how the reflux is, I may call it a day. I hate to type that but , emotionally, as well as physically, I am not handling this well. It's the guilt of stoppping BF that keeps me doing it. If I could stop, and not feeli guilty, I likely would. In the meantime, I keep trying....

thanks for all the encouragement. I could not have made it this far without all of you!:grouphug:

What a great update! I'm thrilled your boys are doing well. That alone is a fantastic achievement.

I completely understand what you mean by having the nursing pillow attached to you. And I also understand what you mean by the guilt of stopping BF keeps you going. That is the only reason I kept going up til 7 months. It is so exhausting.

I wanted to offer this idea if you do continue to bf. Sisi had a terrible latch. She just could never get any milk out. However, Greenbean had a fantastic latch and I noticed that when I tandem fed them, he managed to stimulate flow so that I had let down for both babies. If it hadn't been for her brother, she would never have been able to bf as long as she did.

As for the guilt of stopping bfing, don't be hard on yourself. Like I said before, you have to do what's right for your WHOLE family, that means you too. Twins come with an entirely different set of rules. :hug: