Tell me about Seattle

[crl]

Yes, yet another post in my ongoing series of places we might want to live someday. Tell me about Seattle.

Thanks!
Catherine

[amldaley]

How can I tell you about the greatest city I have ever lived in in a mere BBB post? My love affair with Seattle began in 1986 and continues to this day.

I have lived away from there since 1998 as DH is military. I embrace every place I have ever lived. Yet, I am homesick for the Pacific Northwest every. single. day.

What type of info are you specifically looking for?

[crl]

Eh, there is a vague job possibility there. I don't want to put anyone out as this is sooo preliminary. My general concerns are diversity (ds is Chinese and we are white), public schools and walkability. For Seattle, I am particularly concerned about cost of living and commute.

Dh and I have both been to Seattle, but for work so a limited view.

Thanks for any information you'd like to share!
Catherine

[citymama]

It rains. A LOT.

But it also has a lot more diversity and multi culturalisn than many of the cities you've been considering, great food and easy access to wilderness and the great outdoors. It's a cool town.

[kijip]

It rains. A LOT.

Not as much as people think. And not like it does in the movies. I have lived here 26 years, which is the lion's share of my life. :rotflmao:

We are actually not even in the top 20! but to watch a movie like Sleepless in Seattle you would think it was a Colorado mountain afternoon downpour all day, most days. I blame Hollywood for our reputation. It does rain enough to keep everything an amazing green.

http://www.livescience.com/1558-study-reveals-top-10-wettest-cities.html

Rain here tends to be drizzle and with the exception of some winter days, it basically never rains for long periods of the day. We do get rain when most other places have snow. We have little to no snow here.

[kijip]

I lost a long post with answers to your questions when my safari window closed on the ipad. Ugh. I will re-answer tomorrow on a keyboard! ;)

In short, there are a lot of interracial couple and families in Seattle. The cost of living is high but so is the median income. The traffic and transportation planning sucks. The landscape and natural surroundings are amazing. The city is very kid and family friendly. Economy is fairly strong here, relative to other areas for sure. More tomorrow. :waving4:

[Melanie]

I LOVE SEATTLE! I have never lived there, but visited a lot and Dh did a three month contract there. We have tried and tried and tried to relocate there (finding a job first, of course), but something always falls through for us. I keep telling Dh we will retire on one of the islands someday.

I love the weather, and it's so beautiful.

I can't really give you good info, but I'm envious. Check the city-data forums, too.

[amldaley]

Not as much as people think. And not like it does in the movies. I have lived here 26 years, which is the lion's share of my life. :rotflmao:

We are actually not even in the top 20! but to watch a movie like Sleepless in Seattle you would think it was a Colorado mountain afternoon downpour all day, most days. I blame Hollywood for our reputation. It does rain enough to keep everything an amazing green.

http://www.livescience.com/1558-study-reveals-top-10-wettest-cities.html

Rain here tends to be drizzle and with the exception of some winter days, it basically never rains for long periods of the day. We do get rain when most other places have snow. We have little to no snow here.

Yep! This is true. Seattle gets more DAYS of rain per year, but much of the southeast actually gets more INCHES of rain. But I don't blame Hollywood. I think we perpetuated that as much as anyone. We used to joke that we just told people it rained alot to prevent them from moving there. ;) And the rain is MANAGEABLE. It doesn't stop many people from doing just about anything else they would have anyway.

Catherine, you also asked about diversity and schools. One of the great things about Seattle is it's ethnic diversity. But unlike other cities, especially those on the east coast where each cultural group has it's own area, you will see alot more inter-racial marriages and merging of cultures on the west coast. There is a significant Asian population in Seattle.

Schools...it depends. When we say "Seattle", I am not strictly referring to the actual city of Seattle but the whole Puget Sound area. Having been educated in public schools in a Seattle suburb, I happen to think they are pretty good :D But just like any area, you get some districts that are better than others. That said, where I live right now (eastern NC), DH and I are trying to scrape a budget together for DD for private school. NC schools are a joke. If we lived in WA, I would have no hesitation sending DD to public school. http://www.schooldigger.com/go/WA/schoolrank.aspx
and http://www.greatschools.org/washington/

Also check out: http://www.city-data.com/forum/seattle-area/

What other cities have you checked out? I have lived all over the country and am currently researching places, myself, for DH's eventual retirement from the military. We find out in Dec if he will be retiring in June 2013 or as late as Dec 2014, but it's coming for sure. Seattle is in our Top 3 for "want to live" but has few jobs for DH. Our other two are Boston and Denver.

There is always something to do in Seattle. It has a very active population. Lots to do outdoors. Lots of cultural events. Fairs. Festivals. Easy access to awesome day trips. Portland is only a 4 hour drive. Vancouver BC. The San Juan Islands. The Olympic Penninsula. Ok, I really have to stop...getting homesick again!

Do you know where the vague job possibility is located (not the name of the company, but where it is?)

I am surprised you only have a few responses here. There are several Seattleites on the board and I am sure they will chime in soon!

[crl]

The vague job possibility is near the Bank of America tower--just looking at a map and that's what it is labeled on there. I am guessing this is downtown, but I am not that familiar with Seattle.

Seattle is by far the highest cost of living place I have asked about on here. Other places we are considering include Sacramento CA and Austin TX. My general thought is to take our savings to a lower COL area so dh could take a lower paying job with fewer hours (he is currently working 80 to 100 hour weeks). I am not sure this vague job possibility meets that criteria. It came to him through a contact of his. It would definitely pay enough to sustain us in Seattle, although I am not sure exactly what kind of housing situation we would be able to afford.

I am really ball parking here, but I'd guess we'd want to stay around $600,000 or less for a house. We could technically afford more but we both want to avoid being house poor.

Thanks so much,
Catherine

[bubbaray]

The thing about this area is the shear monotony of the rainy weather. It rains OFTEN here. When it is not raining, it looks like it will soon. We go long periods in the winter without sun. If you can handle the SF weather, you should be fine. However, if you find the weather in SF hard to manage, I would strongly suggest you visit in January and figure out if you can handle months of rain, pre-rain, post-rain greyness. I know many people who moved into the PNW to get away from cold winters, only to find that they prefer cold and sun to mild and rainy grey.

Seattle has always seemed very diverse to me.

I know the housing prices are much lower than in Vancouver (routinely we have media reports about this, plus I know people from here who have bought homes there). What $600K gets you, I dunno. Do you want to be right downtown or would a suburb suit you better? Traffic is pretty bad there (though, ours is horrible too).

[vonfirmath]

It rains. A LOT.

But it also has a lot more diversity and multi culturalisn than many of the cities you've been considering, great food and easy access to wilderness and the great outdoors. It's a cool town.

No. It mists a lot. Seattle and Houston get the same amount of rain in a year (well, not this year for Texas, but in general). But Texas tends to get theirs all at once -- in downpours. Whereas Seattle is generally overcast and drizzles a bit at a time.

It IS a real thing in Seattle to get tired of not seeing the sun for weeks on end. One of the reasons we moved was that this was seriously affecting my husband's mood/depression. (We moved to Austin, TX from Bellevue, WA)

It has a much higher COL than here in Austin as well. Seattle proper will probably have the highest costs of housing. As you move out to the suburbs, prices get lower (bellevue and Mercer island are pricier. Issaquah is middling. Renton/Kirkland is cheaper, etc)

[Melanie]

Oh, do not choose Sacramento over Seattle. Unless you like heat, of course if you like heat you'd like Texas.

[crl]

Oh, do not choose Sacramento over Seattle. Unless you like heat, of course if you like heat you'd like Texas.

Well, if I am choosing a 100 hour work week for dh in Seattle or a 40 hour work week in Sacramento, Sacramento looks awfully attractive. Since, you know, I actually like to see him and all. ;). Plus, it isn't like he has a job in either at the moment.

Catherine

[ashleybama24]

It always amazes me people think Texas is so much hotter than everywhere else. I heard a news report yesterday that Chicago is having this crazy heat wave and the air conditioning units can't keep up. DC is also having above 100F temps. At least every apartment and house here has central air and there are ceiling fans in almost every room. Having lived all over including California, Colorado and Texas I can say that Austin is one of your best options you have listed so far. It really is a diverse town with so much to do!

[Melanie]

Well, if I am choosing a 100 hour work week for dh in Seattle or a 40 hour work week in Sacramento, Sacramento looks awfully attractive. Since, you know, I actually like to see him and all. ;). Plus, it isn't like he has a job in either at the moment.

Catherine

Eeks! I missed that part. Yes, Sacramento would be better. And with the lower COL perhaps you could visit really nice places.

[AnnieW625]

I am really ball parking here, but I'd guess we'd want to stay around $600,000 or less for a house. We could technically afford more but we both want to avoid being house poor.

Thanks so much,
Catherine

I actually think that $600,000 would be a decent upper limit based on what I have heard, and seen on House Hunters. I have never been to the area, but while it's expensive by some standards based on reports and such I don't think as a whole it's nearly as expensive as San Francisco. I think commute and burbs. vs. city feel will dictate how much you pay for a house.


Oh, do not choose Sacramento over Seattle. Unless you like heat, of course if you like heat you'd like Texas.
Dry heat is awesome, it's hot, don't get me wrong, but heat without humidity is bearable. I have said it before but the worst part of the heat is when it doesn't cool off at night at all.


Well, if I am choosing a 100 hour work week for dh in Seattle or a 40 hour work week in Sacramento, Sacramento looks awfully attractive. Since, you know, I actually like to see him and all. ;). Plus, it isn't like he has a job in either at the moment.

Catherine

I think that is very wise. If a less than 80 hour work week is better in Sacramento then yes Sacramento would be very attractive. My BILW's who is a CPA in commercial real estate (so not quite private big law or even smaller law, but the only thing person I can think of who does a professional level job but isn't work 80 hrs. a week) most weeks works 40 to 50 hrs. a week max, except during tax season, which she might hit 65 or 70, but it's very few and far between. Your husband probably won't have any interest in workers compensation, but both on the govt. side, and the defense side work hours seem to be very stable. I work with some former corporate litigators who chose this path because of stability because they wanted to have families or more family time.

[bubbaray]

Is your DH in law? I know lawyers in Seattle and they all work just as insane hours as in Vancouver and SFO. If he's in law and he wants better quality of life, I'd go with the 40 hr/w job elsewhere b/c I'd be very wary that those hours don't exist in private practice in Seattle -- at least not from what I've heard.

[crl]

Is your DH in law? I know lawyers in Seattle and they all work just as insane hours as in Vancouver and SFO. If he's in law and he wants better quality of life, I'd go with the 40 hr/w job elsewhere b/c I'd be very wary that those hours don't exist in private practice in Seattle -- at least not from what I've heard.

Yep, big law. I too am skeptical that any firm job in a city is going to be decent hours. DH isn't afraid of hard work and isn't a work to the rule person (I so am, btw, loved my union law job where I worked hard for 40 hours a week and then went home). But this 80 to 100 every single week deal is just not ideal.

DH isn't particularly attached to this job possibility at this point, although I do think he would really like the work; we are both just doing our preliminary research/thinking on it right now, along with some other possibilities.

You guys are so great to help me learn about places. :)

Thank you!

Catherine

[bubbaray]

There is no way that Biglaw in Seattle is 40 hrs. Absolutely no way. I would guess 80hrs would be the norm.

If he can find a 40hr/w Biglaw job elsewhere, he should grab it! Is there even Biglaw in Sacramento, though?

[twowhat?]

It IS a real thing in Seattle to get tired of not seeing the sun for weeks on end. One of the reasons we moved was that this was seriously affecting my husband's mood/depression. (We moved to Austin, TX from Bellevue, WA)



This IS very real. We have friends in Seattle and when we have visited the weather is GORGEOUS. Beautiful. We LOVED the city. But they told us about not seeing the sun for weeks and weeks...so after gushing about all the other beauties of Seattle I asked one couple "Is the lack of sun in the winters worth it?" And both of them paused and did not answer right away. The husband finally said a tentative yes but the wife chose to answer "No."

I think it's also hard to tell how the lack of sun would affect you until you actually live it!

[wildfire]

For me, I can handle the greyness in the winter just fine, although it gets old around February. The part I personally don't like is how early it gets dark in the winter. The looooong summer days are great. But once winter hits and we end daylight saving time, it starts getting dark at 3pm or so. I had a job where I went to work in the dark (6am), worked in a windowless room all day, then left in the dark (4pm). THAT was awful. I once went for 3 full days without seeing ANY light in the sky, not even cloudy grey.

At least now my office has a window. And I do know people that need full spectrum lights in the winter.

[sadie427]

Hi Catherine. We are really happy in Seattle. Housing costs and traffic are better IMO than SF. $600 k should get you a reasonable house these days depending on your space requirements and neighborhood. PM me with more questions.

[crl]

There is no way that Biglaw in Seattle is 40 hrs. Absolutely no way. I would guess 80hrs would be the norm.

If he can find a 40hr/w Biglaw job elsewhere, he should grab it! Is there even Biglaw in Sacramento, though?

Government. Probably not 40, but close to it. And real estate in Sacramento is cheap enough to allow us to take the pay cut. The economics don't work out as well for government work most other places. Especially other places with sufficient diversity.

All a big balancing act, really. And part of the balance is for us to figure out whether we would like a place.

Catherine

[bubbaray]

Well, maybe its not as bad as the media portrays, but I'd be pretty hesitant to take a gov't job in CA these days. Aren't they bankrupt again?? There has been a lot of media coverage about job losses, forced furlough days, etc for gov't workers in CA.

[vonfirmath]

Well, maybe its not as bad as the media portrays, but I'd be pretty hesitant to take a gov't job in CA these days. Aren't they bankrupt again?? There has been a lot of media coverage about job losses, forced furlough days, etc for gov't workers in CA.

I have an uncle by marriage working in government law in CA and has had to take forced furlough days adding up to weeks for at least the last 2 years.

[crl]

Well, maybe its not as bad as the media portrays, but I'd be pretty hesitant to take a gov't job in CA these days. Aren't they bankrupt again?? There has been a lot of media coverage about job losses, forced furlough days, etc for gov't workers in CA.

Federal.

Catherine

[AnnieW625]

Well, maybe its not as bad as the media portrays, but I'd be pretty hesitant to take a gov't job in CA these days. Aren't they bankrupt again?? There has been a lot of media coverage about job losses, forced furlough days, etc for gov't workers in CA.

California is not bankrupt. I honestly don't know if the state is hiring anyone right now from the outside so it's most likely a moot point. CHP, and prison gaurds maybe (and maybe some corrections dept. teachers, and doctors/nurses are being hired), but not much else that I know of. There have been no actual job losses of state employees due to the budget (I am not saying that there shouldn't be though; they went hog wild hiring in the last 5 yrs so there is probably an overstaff in every agency, including mine which makes all of our own money), they just aren't replacing them as people retire (which people aren't doing either, which makes the situation even more complicated). Most state employees were required to take 3 forced furloughs though from February, 2009 through September, 2010 (I think that was when our current contract went into effect); DH had them until April, 2011 (because his union refused to negotiate with the prior governor:hopmad:). My agency attorneys though argued that they didn't qualify for furloughs because we make our money, the judge agreed and therefore the other employees who work for my agency also got out of furloughs. My DH wasn't so lucky, and from Feb., 2009 to April, 2011 we figure he lost about $25,000 in income due to furloughs from that period. I don't know if the ruling for our attorneys worked for other state attorneys.

[crl]

Thanks you all for the information on Seattle! It is so helpful to get some feedback beyond the wiki page, you know?

Catherine

[Karenn]

I would agree that it's more the grey than the rain that gets to people. Most people I know who grew up in the PNW tolerate it OK, but I do know a lot of people who leave in the winter months in search of sun.

Schools in the suburbs are pretty good. I know a lot of people who are really happy with them, particularly schools in the North End or on the Eastside. But I also know people who have pulled their kids out of "the best school districts" because they didn't work for their kids. I'm sure that's true everywhere though.

I feel like Seattle is pretty diverse and tolerant. We have lots of friends that have multi-racial families. The traffic and high cost of living would be the biggest downsides to me.

[kijip]

So for your questions:

-Interracial families are very common in Seattle. In my office of 11 people, 4 are partnered with people of different skin color and 2 of those have kids. This is not at all uncommon. My co-worker says that she gets comments about it when she goes home to Chicago and Detroit but here no one has ever batted an eye.

-Schools- I am a product of Seattle public schools. Some are great. Others suck. If you live in the city, school assignment is rigorously controlled by address now. So it is not an all city lottery for the best schools with no certainty but this means location of homes is really important and prices are higher in areas with good schools. The area around the most popular Seattle elementary school has the highest cost of housing per square foot in the state, much higher than the fancy wealthy burbs.

-Cost of living is high but median income is also high. And while it is high, it is not runaway like SF and So Cal and NYC. You can get homes in the city now for $275-350K, in some quiet nice neighborhoods and you can get a very nice home in a popular/trendier area for $400-600K for sure.

Pros for Seattle to me:

-Great location and proximity to outdoors. REI was founded here for a reason- any sort of outdoor activity you want to do, you can do. The city also have lots of parks and water that you can enjoy without leaving the city. We are less than a 1/2 day drive from the ocean and the truly amazing Northern Cascades.

-Very kid and family friendly. Tons of civic and sports activities, active community centers with affordable programs for kids. We just went to a WNBA game last night. Inexpensive and a ton of fun.

-Strong economy relative to many areas of the country. I have only had a handful of friends experience unemployment and all have since been rehired elsewhere. I have lots of employment choices.

Negatives:

-The school quality disparities are harsh.

- Traffic and transportation planning blow here. They are really bad, we have only one main source of public transit- busses- and they are about to be cut back. This is not Chicago with all the trains and subways and stuff. We have one light rail line that runs from the airport to downtown, 7 inches of monorail that mock us daily and very, very congested travel times. There is no rush hour anymore. It lasts all morning and all afternoon. There are many good commutes in town but there can be some awful ones. For example, you could not pay me to live in South County and drive to downtown everyday. No way no how. But I live in NE Seattle and my bus ride is 20 minutes on an express and my drive with the Express lanes is 15-ish. OTOH, we use to live closer to downtown but in a less favorable bus and freeway access spot and the bus commute was much longer and driving was out of the question.

[kijip]

I thought Vancouver BC got like 160+ days of rain like Seattle? It always seems similar weather wise to me but I have never stayed there more than a few weeks at a time. I agree the gray can certainly get you down. The green makes up for it to me though. And I love basically never being too hot or too cold.

[crl]

Katie,

Thanks for taking the time to type all that out twice! So helpful. :)

Catherine

[bubbaray]

I thought Vancouver BC got like 160+ days of rain like Seattle? It always seems similar weather wise to me but I have never stayed there more than a few weeks at a time. I agree the gray can certainly get you down. The green makes up for it to me though. And I love basically never being too hot or too cold.


Yeah, so they say. I just do not buy the "official" numbers for either Seattle or Vancouver. I am OK with the weather here (i've adapted, LOL), but even DH (a Vancouver native) HATES the grey. Its either raining, just stopped raining or about to start raining. Or so it seems.

Compared to, say, the mid-West or SoCal, there is very little sun, esp. in winter. The media here in the past few winters has been saying that Seattle gets more depth of snow than we do due to the geography (your mountains are East of the city, ours are North of the city, so the weather patterns don't stall over top of the city, they continue quite a ways east). Snowfall depth also depends on how large a metro area you're including in the data. If you include the far Eastern suburbs of Vancouver (2hrs away from downtown) like some websites do, yes, Vancouver gets loads more snow (see my comments re mountains). Most people who live here would NOT include that in the metro area. Vancouver proper gets very very little snow and when they do get snow, its a ridiculously small amount. (but the city still shuts down, as there are no plows and people are just stupid drivers, even in summer).

I have spent a lot of time in Seattle and my sense (obviously not scientific) is that the weather is VERY similar to Vancouver's. We might get a bit more inches (cm's, LOL) of rain, but its pretty similar.

Oh yeah, and the PNW is the only place I know where "rain" is quantified as mist, drizzle, sprinkles, showers, rain, heavy rainfall, flood warning, freezing rain, sleet, snow, blizzard. LOL.

Personally, *I* miss 4 seasons. We basically have 2 -- rain or no rain. Yes, its green. A large part of the green is moss and mould, though. I do like the lack of humidity (generally -- its actually been a bit muggy this summer).

[kijip]

Yeah, so they say. I just do not buy the "official" numbers for either Seattle or Vancouver. I am OK with the weather here (i've adapted, LOL), but even DH (a Vancouver native) HATES the grey. Its either raining, just stopped raining or about to start raining. Or so it seems.

Vancouver proper gets very very little snow and when they do get snow, its a ridiculously small amount. (but the city still shuts down, as there are no plows and people are just stupid drivers, even in summer).

Oh yeah, and the PNW is the only place I know where "rain" is quantified as mist, drizzle, sprinkles, showers, rain, heavy rainfall, flood warning, freezing rain, sleet, snow, blizzard. LOL.



Word to all of this! It goes in cycles for me. Sometimes I love it and sometimes I ponder moving to San Diego. ;) The sun comes out often enough to make me never seriously start planning that move. I am very rooted here so it would be near impossible to leave. Because this is pretty much the only place I have lived (here from age 4-10 and then ages 11-now), I guess I am just used to it.

We are like eskimos with our rain words though. VERY true.

Snow in the city is getting more common. At least it seems that way to me. When I was a kid it snowed every 2-3 years. Now it seems like we get at least some every year. It totally cripples the city, especially when you factor in that no one is prepped for it and that we are a city of steep hills, so the ice can be a legit issue. And then there is all that insane freaking out that goes on with snow which is totally irrational. My parents came here from Denver (where my dad grew up) and my husband grew up in snow heavy Eastern WA so my life has been benefited by being able to learn to drive in the snow from savvy snow drivers. :ROTFLMAO: Finn was born at a hospital on a hill (that we don't live on) in that snow we had in 2008. Had I married a native Seattlite person I doubt we would have reached the hospital safely.

[fivi2]

I know nothing about Seattle and I have already weighed in on your Austin thread, but I did want to touch on the legal job market in Austin.

(I have only worked state gov't, but have talked to others. So my info may not be true for everyone...)

The Austin legal job market can be tough. We have a good law school that is big and turns out tons of graduates every year. Plus the other Texas schools. Biglaw here is like biglaw everywhere - lots of hours. There are some corporate jobs, but many of those will be high tech companies (which might be what your dh does, I don't know). There are state gov't jobs, but the pay is (really) low and we are having some serious budget issues. There are not many federal jobs in Austin. A few, but not many.

The state job site used to be workintexas.com. It may have changed, but it will redirect you. You can choose to search by occupation and location (on the left side it will be a choice). Check there periodically to see what sort of jobs there are and what the salary range is. Austin has the highest COL in Texas (from what I hear, I haven't independently verified that!). I know it doesn't compare to where you are now, but it isn't dirt cheap either.

Have you considered the metroplex? I think Dallas might have more Federal jobs than Austin does by virtue of being a big city. It also (imo) has better weather - they seem to get fall a lot sooner than we do.

[lyt202]

I just read an article that said that Seatle has had 78 minutes of summer so far this year. This was defined as a temperature of over 80 degrees. I know when we were there a few weeks ago to visit friends, they told us that it was the first weekend all year with nice weather and that it was pretty gray the first half the year.

As for your Texas options, as someone who grew up in the metroplex and lived in Austin, I would choose to go back to Austin in a heartbeat but would never consider living in the metroplex. Austin is more compact and livable than the sprawling mass of undifferentiated suburbs that make up the DFW area.

[kijip]

I just read an article that said that Seatle has had 78 minutes of summer so far this year. This was defined as a temperature of over 80 degrees. I know when we were there a few weeks ago to visit friends, they told us that it was the first weekend all year with nice weather and that it was pretty gray the first half the year.



This year has been exceptionally cool here. And most people I know in Seattle consider sunny and above 70 summer. It's all relative to what you are used to. :D

[amldaley]

This year has been exceptionally cool here. And most people I know in Seattle consider sunny and above 70 summer. It's all relative to what you are used to. :D

:yeahthat: In a REGULAR year, how many minutes does Seattle get over 80 degrees anyway? Who defines "summer" as "80 degrees"?

( I am dying from the 120 degree heat index days we have had here...what I wouldn't give for "summer in Seattle"...68 degrees!)