Well, at least she's honest.

[ha98ed14]

MIL finally came clean about the reasons for the disparity in time spent with SIL&Co v us. DH had it out with her on the phone last night and without going into the gory details (the phone call was several hours) it breaks down thus: First, MIL sees SIL suffering because of her overwhelming life (that SIL chose to have) and cannot help but help her. This we already knew. MIL is SIL's enabler. They are a textbook case. Second, though, and this is the part that MIL revealed, is that MIL prefers cleaning SIL's house to spending time with DD. MIL is an introvert, so going to SIL's house 4 days/week (Sunday to Wed or Thurs) and cleaning part of the time and playing with SIL's kids part of the time is preferable to coming to our house and only playing one-on-one with DD. SIL has 2 DDs, so the three of them play together. (So forgive me that I do not need my MIL to clean my house!)

The other new news is that MIL declared that she will not be able to keep the time equal. In the past when we have has this conversation about the dispairity of time spent there v. here, MIL has hidden behind the "SIL needs me. That's why I go there. You don't need me." (Um... yeah because we chose to have only the number of children we could afford and parent well, and not take on so many activities, projects and outside responsibilities that squalor sets in.) But MIL has always maintained that she will try harder to split her time more equally. Well, now she's not saying that. She's saying this is the way it is; this is the way she (MIL) wants it, and we need to accept it and be grateful for what she can give us and DD in terms of time and attention.

So there you go. The truth comes out. DH is so hurt. It sucks when men get their feelings hurt because they just don't have the tools to deal with that emotion. Anger, yes. Frustration, pride, humiliation, pleasure, all of these they can process. Hurt feelings are so hard for them.

ETA: THe other thing that MIL said to both DH and me directly was that we need to "support her" in this arrangement by lying to DD and not telling her, or outright denying that MIL is at SIL's house (and therefore less than 10 miles from our house). MIL says that she knows DD trusts her and believes that she loves her, so as long as she does find out that she's getting the shaft, she will be fine. Not sure how I am going to handle that one. I didn't really respond to that part because it was sandwiched in between so much other stuff. But even when we were leaving Legoland, DD wanted to know why MIL was staying with her cousins at the hotel and got to go back for a second day. "Um... because she loves them more?" I dunno. I don't think that is really true, but I think that because MIL does not like being here, she does not come to see DD as often as she goes to SIL's, where obviously she feels more comfortable. MIL asked if we would be willing to send DD 2 hours north to her house to spend 4-5 days.

[elephantmeg]

oh my. That is crazy. I'm sorry about all the hurt going around tonight. Hugs.

[happymomma]

I'm so sorry!! It must have hurt your DH tremendously to hear it. I don't have any advice. But wanted to give you a hug.

[HIU8]

Wow. I'm so sorry for your DH. However, now at least you know, so you can set your expectations way lower and not be hurt over and over with each event. Plus, and I say this from personal experience, as your DD grows up she will figure all this out and it will effect her relationship with your MIL, who she will see for who she really is. I had little to no relationship with one set of grandparents when I finally understood the issues. I decided that I didn't need them or their drama in my life (I was a preteen btw). However, I had another set of grandparents who were absolutely wonderful caring loving people who I was extremely close with.

[niccig]

Aww, I'm sorry. :hug: for your DH, DD and you. It must feel like DH is being punished by being the capable child - he doesn't need his mother's help as much. My grandmother was like that, favoured her youngest son over my dad. It was so obvious and when we were older, we asked Dad and he said he was used to it, and I think he was.

I think the prefer to play with her DD's is because the 2 girls play together and MIL has to only occasionally join in. I've noticed this with my MIL on her last visit. She had DS while we were on vacation and she wanted him saying she would have the chance of 1:1 time. Turns out, either DS was out his cousin's house or the cousin was sleeping over at MILs as MIL didn't know what to do with DS, who does play by himself here at home. DS adores his cousin, so that was fine with him. But then when we were leaving, DS was only upset that leaving his cousin and not MIL, who commented "he only cares about his cousin" and I said "maybe next time when we're leaving for the airport, it should just be you and not you and cousin then."

Did DH tell his mother that DD will realise the disparity in attention and that it will negatively affect their relationship? I've had to spell this out with my mother..you criticise him all the time then wonder why he won't give you a hug...duh!.

I'm sorry. I hope DH can find a way to deal with this...or tell his mother to go take a hike. Maybe now he'll be more onboard with forging your own events and not always going along with what his sister, mother want.

[niccig]

Just read your ETA..no way no how I will lie to my child and tell MIL that. No, I won't lie and say you're not at SILs and not visiting us....MIL wants things to be this way, then she can deal with fall out with your DD. Do not help MIL by covering up the disparity.

[ha98ed14]

I think the prefer to play with her DD's is because the 2 girls play together and MIL has to only occasionally join in.

Exactly what she said. Word. For. Word.

[Uno-Mom]

Nope, no lying. I forget how old your daughter is and whether she's likely to notice the disparity now?

I would tell grandma that I will NOT lie and I will tell her the truth when/if she asks. The truth being that she's at cousins' house. And that when DD asks "why - does she love them more???" I will tell my daughter that she can ask grandma that question.

Grandma can get her answer ready. Hopefully she will?

[bubbaray]

Just read your ETA..no way no how I will lie to my child and tell MIL that. No, I won't lie and say you're not at SILs and not visiting us....MIL wants things to be this way, then she can deal with fall out with your DD. Do not help MIL by covering up the disparity.


:yeahthat: I'm really sorry your DH is hurt. BTDT for similar reasons and it sucks. At least she is being honest. But, yeah, no way would I lie to my child to cover up for other people's poor choices. Not happening.

On the wanting to play with more than one child, my ILs have said the same thing -- they only want the children to come visit together, not separately (even though both girls would prefer to visit separate and have told the ILs that). After this summer's visit (4 days), I am very doubtful we will send them again. If they go, DH will go too.

[SnuggleBuggles]

She doesn't love the other kids more than dd. You need to repeat that mantra. Even if her actions don't show that, don't get sucked into thinking she doesn't love dd as much. I'm sure that's not true!

I'm glad it's in the open. Sucky answers but better than wondering.

Beth

[niccig]

I wouldn't send her to MILs for a few days. If MIL can't play with her in your house with all of DDs things, how will she occupy her for 4 days in her own home w/o the toys?

My MIL prefers to have DS at her house rather than here as she knows where to drive and can organize play with the cousins, but when they are at her house, there aren't a lot of things for DS to do. There are some toys, and DS takes things, but it is not as well equipped as our house. Here I can tell DS to go and play with lego or transformers and he is occupied for a couple of hours ( with occasional input from me)

Honestly, I would start building familial relationships with other people and not count on MIL/SIL for holidays etc. Do your own thing, build your own lives. It is her loss. And it is better to do this, then catch any dribs and drabs of attention she gives out.

[longtallsally05]

I would tell grandma that I will NOT lie and I will tell her the truth when/if she asks. The truth being that she's at cousins' house. And that when DD asks "why - does she love them more???" I will tell my daughter that she can ask grandma that question.

Grandma can get her answer ready. Hopefully she will?

:yeahthat: Yep, when she asks, give DD the facts without elaborating on MIL's motives. Tell DD to ask Grandma, who is old enough to deal with the consequences. Sooner or later, DD will figure out that MIL and SIL suck and she won't care about them either. IDK that there is anything you can say or do that will make your DH feel better about it though. My BIL eventually came to terms with the fact that his mother was a sucky GM who doesn't care to spend time with her (only!) grandchildren. It still hurts his feelings, but he appreciates his own nuclear family more because he knows that his wife & kids are awesome. They ended up spending lots more time with my parents, which is great. I hope it works out that way for you & your DH too.

[jenfromnj]

Ugh, I'm sorry. I agree though, at least now everyone sees it for what it really is, as much as that stinks. DS's GPs like to pretend that all the GCs get equal treatment and are equally important to them, but actions speak much louder than words--at least now her words and actions are consistent.


:yeahthat: I'm really sorry your DH is hurt. BTDT for similar reasons and it sucks. At least she is being honest. But, yeah, no way would I lie to my child to cover up for other people's poor choices. Not happening.



:yeahthat: to all of the above. The absolute hardest thing I've come across as a parent (in my illustrious 2-year run :)) has been trying to figure out how to eventually explain to DS why he's treated so unequally by both sets of grandparents. I still haven't figured out a sufficient explanation, because there really isn't one (!), but I am filled with dread at the prospect of him having this realization. But I know for sure that I will not be lying to make any of the GPs look better, that I know for sure.




Honestly, I would start building familial relationships with other people and not count on MIL/SIL for holidays etc. Do your own thing, build your own lives. It is her loss. And it is better to do this, then catch any dribs and drabs of attention she gives out.

I think this is a good idea. I am thankful that we have other family who we love and see often, as well as good friends who are like family to us. I refuse to go out of my way anymore for people who aren't willing to make DS a priority, I honestly think it's bad for his self-esteem as he gets older to see me or DH do so. (My husband has major issues with his parents strongly and obviously favoring his sister, and really did a number on his self-worth--I refuse to subject my kid to that!).

[ha98ed14]

Honestly, I would start building familial relationships with other people and not count on MIL/SIL for holidays etc. Do your own thing, build your own lives. It is her loss. And it is better to do this, then catch any dribs and drabs of attention she gives out.

We have started to do this based on advice I got here last holiday season. We did the holidays on our own and had a separate dinner 'n gifts two days after Christmas with MIL and SIL. It worked out fine. I don't think we will ever not get together with them around the holidays unless we were to cut off contact, but no one is talking about that.

For whatever reason, the community of friends we know here only do holidays with their own extended families, even if they don't like the people and only see them once a year. So even though we have a couple friends with whom we are close enough to spend a holiday, I don't think they would come if we invited them because they have their own extended family thing. That's just how it is here. All my family is back east so we don't see them as much. But that's not really the issue here. I couldnt really care less about holidays right now. I'm happy with the friends we have. I know we have friends who love us and our kid.

[niccig]

I'm happy with the friends we have. I know we have friends who love us and our kid.

Spend time with them, invite them over and to things like dance recitals. I go to my god-daughter's recitals.

And the vindictive witch in me says to not invite MIL/FIL to dance recitals. Sorry, I think being involved like that is a privilege. I would also hate to invite them and then they decide SIL's toilet needs cleaning instead. I'm mad for you and want to :6: for you, DD and DH.

[eagle]

Honestly, I would start building familial relationships with other people and not count on MIL/SIL for holidays etc. Do your own thing, build your own lives. It is her loss. And it is better to do this, then catch any dribs and drabs of attention she gives out.
yes this absolutely. wow, im just so sorry that mil said this. well, do as mil herself says, just accept it and MOVE on. hugs to you and your dh and your dd. im really very very sorry for your dh, though.

[TwinFoxes]

Well that sucks. I feel bad for all of you. Poor DH, I can't imagine. I totally agree with Nicci, why would she want DD at her house? I wouldn't do that at all, because I'm sure after one day she'd call you to pick DD up. I certainly wouldn't lie, NMS, but I don't agree with this:




And that when DD asks "why - does she love them more???" I will tell my daughter that she can ask grandma that question.

Grandma can get her answer ready. Hopefully she will?

Because that really just hurts DD. No child wants to feel unloved. It's not going to shame grandma into changing her ways. And chances are she would say something to hurt DD. If it were me, I'd just say something like "no Grandma loves you just as much, but she stays at Aunt Whacky's because Whacky needs her help". True, and something a kid can process. DD will figure things out, no need to potentially hurt her feelings even more. JMHO.

[hellokitty]

:hug: I'm sorry that this is the way your mil chooses things to be. My mom is JUST like your mil. In fact, reading your post was like talking to my mom. She also feels that it is my job to lie/pretend to my kids and the rest of the family, that everything is ok, when it's not and to cover up things for she and my dad. It came down to my parents telling me that they only wanted to spend time with my kids, if I would drive an hour, and drop them off for an entire wknd, without us being there. They don't want to abide by our parenting rules, so they feel that this is the best way to havw full control over our kids w/o having to abide by our rules. I told them it wasn't going to happen, and they basically said, ok, guess we won't be seeing your kids. It sucks, but at the same time, the reality is that you don't want to have your dd spend time with someone like this anyway. So, build your own support network and forget about mil. She isn't worth it.

[mmommy]

If it were me, I'd just say something like "no Grandma loves you just as much, but she stays at Aunt Whacky's because Whacky needs her help". True, and something a kid can process. DD will figure things out, no need to potentially hurt her feelings even more. JMHO.

I'm stalking this thread because this is totally my MIL and right now DD is only 2, but I know I'll need to figure out how to answer her questions in the future. My SIL is completely out of control and MIL flies to visit her across the country for a month at a time several times a year. We see her 2-3 times a year for just a weekend even though we live much closer to MIL. I don't mind, because MIL drives me crazy, but I'm sure DD will get her feelings hurt when she is old enough to realize that her cousins have a much stronger relationship with MIL. My DH is so used to the behavior because it has been this way his whole life, so his feelings don't get hurt, and we have strong relationships with my family and our friends who are like family. But I'm sure DD will get her feelings hurt at some point :( It sucks knowing that your child is going to get hurt and feeling powerless, but I do think TwinFoxes response is the best one for explaining it to a child.

[MamaMolly]

:eek: huge hugs. OMG I'm so sorry. Honestly I have to think on this one before I can come up with anything constructive to offer.

So in that light can I just say EFFF your MIL. I'm so mad for you and your DH and DD.

I'll say something helpful (hopefully!!!;)) later. Big loving protective hugs for you right now.

[Globetrotter]

That is brutal. :hug:

However, I think I would take this as an opportunity to adjust your expectations, as much as it sucks. It sounds like you're already doing this!

I don't think she loves your dd less, but she is just more comfortable with SIL and.. frankly.. as you know, it's easier to babysit two kids who play together. She sounds like she has other underlying issues. I cannot imagine a grandparent saying that :(

[niccig]

Just a comment on it being easier as the 2 DDs play together. You're MIL isn't playing with them. The girls are playing together and you MIL is off to the side in parallel play. She's doing something else and occasionally joins in with the girls. I don't think the other girls are getting much "play time" with grandma at all.

My mother is like this, she does not know how to play with DS. She's better with an activity like cooking or gardening, something with defined steps. But it is not play. When MIL does visit next, maybe an activity over free play would be better with her.

[g-mama]

Just a comment on it being easier as the 2 DDs play together. You're MIL isn't playing with them. The girls are playing together and you MIL is off to the side in parallel play. She's doing something else and occasionally joins in with the girls. I don't think the other girls are getting much "play time" with grandma at all.

My mother is like this, she does not know how to play with DS. She's better with an activity like cooking or gardening, something with defined steps. But it is not play. When MIL does visit next, maybe an activity over free play would be better with her.

When I had my MIL here for two days while I went to the hospital to deliver my second ds, I bought some new toys for ds1. I showed them to her and she looked at me like I was nuts. "I'm not going to play with him, honey, I'm here to *watch* him."

My MIL would never in a million years play with any of her grandkids. She will cook with them, garden with them, like Nicci said, take them somewhere (but nowhere better than daily mass or the grocery store b/c she gets tired too easily and wouldn't dream of going somewhere outdoors where she would sweat).

I have to say, it is easier to care for kids who have one another to play with than it is just one child. At first, MIL wanted to only have the boys come over one at a time, thinking it would be less taxing. She quickly said it's worth it to have them all come as they don't look to her for constant interaction and entertainment when they are together.

I am not excusing your MIL's comments. I just wanted to give my .02 on that specific issue. Of course, you cannot change the fact that you have one child because of her comfort level.

And I get what it feels like to feel overwhelmed with the number of kids I chose to have. I did call my MIL a couple of weeks ago, practically begging for her to take my boys for an overnight stay as the summer was wearing on me and I was at the end of my rope. Her own dd, who also has three boys, never asks that of her mother because she works full time and has an amazing nanny and a dh who is always home when she is home, both of their jobs being 9-5, so she is never alone in parenting.

[ha98ed14]

Just a comment on it being easier as the 2 DDs play together. You're MIL isn't playing with them. The girls are playing together and you MIL is off to the side in parallel play. She's doing something else and occasionally joins in with the girls. I don't think the other girls are getting much "play time" with grandma at all.

My mother is like this, she does not know how to play with DS. She's better with an activity like cooking or gardening, something with defined steps. But it is not play. When MIL does visit next, maybe an activity over free play would be better with her.

This is exactly what MIL said, not as clearly put, but this is the message. It's why MIL thinks she will have more things to do with DD at her (MIL's) house. It's her space and she is free to breaking out the mixing bowls if she wants. She isn't free to do that at my house, but she is at SIL's. I can understand that, I guess.

It is hard to entertain DD constantly. We don't. We do for a while and then she has to occupy herself for a while. It is a different dynamic than if there was another DC and we were less playmate, but more observer/ referee.

I think this is another area in which MIL relates to SIL's choices more than mine/ ours. They look at me and ask, "Why would anyone choose to have only one child?" I look at her and think, "SIL is so completely overwhelmed with her 4 and HSing all of them that she cannot keep a clean house and the little ones get no individual attention." Both of us think the other's children are deprived. ;)

[StantonHyde]

wow, just wow. This whole thing has so many levels to it.

1. Give her credit for being honest--seriously, at least you know where you stand. Big ouch, big, big ouch. And yes, there is definitely big time enabling, co-dependency going on there.

2. No.way.in.he!!. should you lie to DD--the idea that she would even request that BOGGLES my mind. Damn straight she can explain that one to your DD. But don't expect any honesty on that one--be prepared to help DD process the BS answer that is sure to come.

3. I am sure your SIL is overwhelmed. I would be too. And yes, she chose to have the kids and HS--for her that is very important. So if MIL is willing to come help, then I can see why SIL calls her. That alone is not odd to me. I would do the same thing. Yes, she could decide to put the kids in school, and that would give her time to clean her house but she isn't going to do that. (what would be more rational, IMO, would be to hire someone to come clean but anyone who is familiar with the ice cream ladle story knows that is not about to happen....frankly, I think their frugality is pathologic. Having kids and HSing them isn't IMO.)

4. I get that your MIL is an introvert and would rather be "around" the children vs. with them. That seems sad to me but that is what makes her happy. I think it isn't a good way to raise kids IMO but its ok to be that way with grandkids since she isn't the parent. Given that, then I would invite her to come make a cake with your DD. I am not not sure why she doesn't feel ok doing that stuff at your house--sounds like she would clean up afterwards!! But sometimes people do feel uncomfortable in other people's kitchens.

Now you may darn well decide that you never want this co-dependent, introvert, who wants you to lie to your DD, person in your kitchen ever again!!! And I wouldn't blame you. I can honestly see your DH needing to take a break for a few months (and you too) from MIL. I would have a hard time being civil to her. REally hard. Big hugs, ugh.

[ha98ed14]

wow, just wow. This whole thing has so many levels to it.

1. Give her credit for being honest--seriously, at least you know where you stand. Big ouch, big, big ouch. And yes, there is definitely big time enabling, co-dependency going on there.

2. No.way.in.he!!. should you lie to DD--the idea that she would even request that BOGGLES my mind. Damn straight she can explain that one to your DD. But don't expect any honesty on that one--be prepared to help DD process the BS answer that is sure to come.

3. I am sure your SIL is overwhelmed. I would be too. And yes, she chose to have the kids and HS--for her that is very important. So if MIL is willing to come help, then I can see why SIL calls her. That alone is not odd to me. I would do the same thing. Yes, she could decide to put the kids in school, and that would give her time to clean her house but she isn't going to do that. (what would be more rational, IMO, would be to hire someone to come clean but anyone who is familiar with the ice cream ladle story knows that is not about to happen....frankly, I think their frugality is pathologic. Having kids and HSing them isn't IMO.)

4. I get that your MIL is an introvert and would rather be "around" the children vs. with them. That seems sad to me but that is what makes her happy. I think it isn't a good way to raise kids IMO but its ok to be that way with grandkids since she isn't the parent. Given that, then I would invite her to come make a cake with your DD. I am not not sure why she doesn't feel ok doing that stuff at your house--sounds like she would clean up afterwards!! But sometimes people do feel uncomfortable in other people's kitchens.

Now you may darn well decide that you never want this co-dependent, introvert, who wants you to lie to your DD, person in your kitchen ever again!!! And I wouldn't blame you. I can honestly see your DH needing to take a break for a few months (and you too) from MIL. I would have a hard time being civil to her. REally hard. Big hugs, ugh.

This. Summarizes all my rational feelings on the subject. ITA with what you said. I was serious when I titled the post. That is one good thing we can say about this conflict: it cleared the air and we do know where we stand. I wrote a follow up email to MIL saying that I was going to work on letting go of my anger and jealousy towards SIL since it is not SIL keeping MIL from visiting DD, but MIL's own choices. It brings a new level of complication to the relationship with both MIL and SIL because for years, MIL blamed her inability to do more with us on SIL's need for her. It made us mad that MIL would never say no to SIL and always chose her over us. In the beginning, when the kids were small, I think that was true. SIL had a royal fit 4 years ago when MIL offered to watch DD so I could go back to work. But 4+years later, all the kids are older and the need is less desperate. According to MIL, SIL does not even ask her to come anymore. Not sure I believe that one, but I am sure it has lessened. In addition, MIL, with whom I have had a mostly positive relationship, has now given me some real issues to harbor resentment over. That was a place reserved in my heart for SIL. Move over, dear!

I know we both have an aversion to the life choices of the other. In a clearer state of mind, I know there is nothing wrong with HSing a large family, but when it comes with an inability to keep a clean house AND excuses about why everything must always be on her terms (from holidays to the date we go to the amusement park), it seems downright unpalatable. I know that not all large HSing families have the history of rudeness and self-absorption that SIL has; but she uses her hectic life as an excuse to treat the rest of us like crap. But, it turns out that MIL is her own source of hurt, so that means I need to rethink how much power I have attributed to SIL.

But save the in laws, I am otherwise pretty happy with the community of friends and life I have. DH is a good person. He wants to do the right and best thing for all of us, and that counts for a lot. Somehow this really good guy came out of a family of whackadoodles. I do think I got the best of what they had to offer the world, AND I told DH last night that I think (hope) that we have found better spouses in one another than either of our sisters or their husbands did. Both BILs are jackholes and both our sisters tend to be inflexible. Both DH and I continually work on making room for the other and their needs and interests. It's part of why we have one DC. Our marriage is still pretty happy all these years later and I think a big part of that is because we have minimized our parenting related stress by stopping at one. I think we are all happier for it.

[gatorsmom]

Just read your ETA..no way no how I will lie to my child and tell MIL that. No, I won't lie and say you're not at SILs and not visiting us....MIL wants things to be this way, then she can deal with fall out with your DD. Do not help MIL by covering up the disparity.

I totally and utterly disagree. What postitive effect would this action have? The only thing I see coming from that is OP's DD is hurt and her relationship with her grandmother is damaged. Why not spin the situation in a more postive light for the OP'S daughter's sake? Why not give MIL the benfit of he doubt to DD? Something to the tune of, "I'm not sure why MIL is staying an extra day with your cousins but she seemed to have a wonderful time with you today. I know she loves you a lot." Period. Chances are this all DD will want to be reassured of anyway.

Who knows, maybe MIL just isn't comfortable with children. She admitted she's an introvert. Maybe, as the grandkids get older she'll find that she prefers spending more time with OP's DD. Maybe their personalities will click. Why destroy that chance now by making DD upset with her Grandmother?

I just don't understand why the situation can't be sugarcoated a bit now. By "punishing" MIL , DD gets punished too.

[niccig]

ISomething to the tune of, "I'm not sure why MIL is staying an extra day with your cousins but she seemed to have a wonderful time with you today. I know she loves you a lot." Period. Chances are this all DD will want to be reassured of anyway.


Lisa, this is what I mean OP should say when her DD asks. But it sounds like MIL wants OP and her DH to lie to their DD and say that MIL is not at SILs, when she actually is. I'm telling the OP that I would not lie to coverup for MIL. eg. I wouldn't say MIL is at her house when I know full well she's at SILs. I would say something like you wrote saying "I don't know why she's staying there".

One day DD will work out why MIL spends more time with her cousins, better that she just finds that out and not also finds out that her parents have lied to her for several years about the amount of time MIL spent with the cousins.

And I think it's fine for grandkids to ask their g.parents "when will you come visit me next?" DS wants to know when my parents will come, it's been over 3 years and I truthfully say "I don't know." When we talk to them, he will then say to them "when will you come and see me?" My parents need to hear that he wants them to visit. That alone won't pry them out of their chairs, but I'm not lying to DS and making excuses on their behalf when there is no reason for them not visiting except they don't want to. I'm not telling him that either, but I do say "I don't know, honey" and redirect to another topic.

[alien_host]

I'm sorry you, your DH and DD are going through this. I really think it sounds like a bunch of excuses from your MIL.

Our dynamic with my ILs is similar. They favor their other two kids and DH is left to the side. Partially b/c DH is self sufficient and doesn't "need" them as much, or at least that is what conclusion I have come to (after some enlightenment from here and some serious thinking about it).

DH says, "the weak get weaker..." that is referring to his siblings. His mom enables their weakness....gives them $, time, and things b/c they "need them" so why should his sibs work harder for things in life? And DH says the "strong get stronger"...this is you and your DH. You are good people and hopefully you can find away to co-exist with your ILs so it doesn't hurt you or your DD. :hug:

And the interesting thing is that DD is an only child like your DD...I'm now wondering if that factors into our issues as well.

And I would not lie to DD about MIL's actions either.

[sste]

Well, Haged, I always post on your threads as the lone voice of grandparent dissent/confusion. To me, grandparents/in-laws/even my own parents are peripheral relationships . . . even the positive ones are off to the side and the negative ones I try my best to strictly limit in every way. Perhaps if I had a very special parent or grandparent that would be different.

I think your MIL has made her choice and made it clear. The ball is very much in your and your DH's court. This is a VOLUNTARY relationship. Plenty of people make the decision to see their parents/inlaws once or twice or three times a year for the obligatory visit. Plenty of people are estranged. Plenty of people take a cooling off period. Personally I would give myself a nice, long amount of time to let this sit and decide what feels best to you and your DH.

Oh, and since I am the grandparent-meanie, I should also point out that while this feels like a consuming issue it is quite likely this individual will not be around for all of your DD's growing up even due to death, disability, assisted living, etc. I had a similar issue for a long while with my now scared straight inlaws. I was VERY clear with my husband that my inlaws had voiced their limits of helping out family when we needed help and that across the next decade as inlaws aged and required more assistance and perhaps major assistance our family would also be enforcing very similar limits on helping out. In some ways, the whole thing is a relief: I have lived through caretaking for very ill relatives I am not particularly fond of and it is awful. You know as MIL ages, SIL will be the person she attempts to depend on and MIL may find that she did not choose very wisely . . .

[bisous]

I agree with everything StantonHyde said! I'm glad to see the OP sees it that way too!

I also agree with Lisa (Gatorsmom). I kept asking myself, "How does her DD KNOW that her GM is over with her cousins and not with her??" Do you tell her? Otherwise, unless she's uncannily bright, how does she figure these things out? She can totally get her cues from you. I can see why you would be tempted not to make excuses for a grandparent who is totally in the wrong, but your DD won't be able to see this as GMs problem--I don't think most ADULTS have that kind of maturity, let alone 4yos.

I think you have a legitimate sucky situation on your hands. And I know this is the bitching post. I'm going to offer what *I* would do but feel free to ignore completely! I promise I'm not trying to do anything but offer another perspective.

Here's what I'd do. If SIL lived 10 minutes away and I knew that MIL was there, I'd stop by. I wouldn't plan on staying if not invited but I'd be on a walk in the neighborhood. I'd bring by DD with a drawing she made for GM and drop it off. I'd make something tiny to give to cousins. I'd just connect.

With grandma, I'd invite her over to do concrete things--bake a cake, read a story, go on a walk etc. with DD. I would definitely consider dropping her off at MILs (unless she is somehow unsafe!) I know I prefer to watch kids on my own turf and kids (especially at 4) can find lots to do at other people's home. If you haven't tried it--do so! It might be a really fun thing for the both of them!

If SIL is so, so overwhelmed, I'd offer to watch her DDs that are your DDs age. I know that is probably more of a burden for you and I don't see any reason why you should be particularly helpful to SIL when she isn't particularly nice to you. BUT your DD would be the one benefitting from the extra play time with cousins! I think you've mentioned in the past that the cousin DD's age is a nice girl and good playmate. I think you would ultimately "win" because DD would have so much fun.

I agree with everyone else. Make your friends into your "family". Heck, even your family (you, DH and DD) on your own is pretty awesome. And it sounds like your DH is in your corner which is seriously HUGE in IL issues. I wouldn't cave to crazy holiday plans. I also would try to build some genuine good will toward SIL (if possible!). I think this is made ultimately MUCH easier when you feel more like you are in the drivers seat in the relationship. When your life is full and complete, it is much easier to show love (or pity as the case may be!) to someone like your SIL.

I wish you the best of luck in your family relationships whatever you do! I don't read this and think that your family is hopeless at all though. I think the (funny) trip to Legoland is a testament to this! I wish you the best. I hope you feel empowered to do what is best for your family but I'm pulling for you guys as a group. Huge hugs!

[traciann]

Before my MIL's death I would have responded the same as other posters, because I understand the pain of jerky MIL. She had her own issues and she was hard to deal with. She didn't work and could have come to see dd anytime she wanted. Yet she only saw her if we came to visit her. Then she died suddenly three days after my second daughter was born. I realized that I wasted alot of hurt feelings when I should have just enjoyed the time I had with her...even as little as it was.

I think there is no reason your daughter has to know that MIL is visiting the kids. My own kids would never know if I didnt tell them. Your MIL offered to have your dd come spend the night for several days...take her up on it and enjoy some time with your dh or even to do things by yourself. What good does harboring resentment against your MIL get you? Its not hurting her...only yourself. You seem to have a good relationship with your dh and dd and that is what I would focus on right now.

[MontrealMum]

Well, Haged, I always post on your threads as the lone voice of grandparent dissent/confusion. To me, grandparents/in-laws/even my own parents are peripheral relationships . . . even the positive ones are off to the side and the negative ones I try my best to strictly limit in every way. Perhaps if I had a very special parent or grandparent that would be different.

I think your MIL has made her choice and made it clear. The ball is very much in your and your DH's court. This is a VOLUNTARY relationship. Plenty of people make the decision to see their parents/inlaws once or twice or three times a year for the obligatory visit. Plenty of people are estranged. Plenty of people take a cooling off period. Personally I would give myself a nice, long amount of time to let this sit and decide what feels best to you and your DH.

Oh, and since I am the grandparent-meanie, I should also point out that while this feels like a consuming issue it is quite likely this individual will not be around for all of your DD's growing up even due to death, disability, assisted living, etc. I had a similar issue for a long while with my now scared straight inlaws. I was VERY clear with my husband that my inlaws had voiced their limits of helping out family when we needed help and that across the next decade as inlaws aged and required more assistance and perhaps major assistance our family would also be enforcing very similar limits on helping out. In some ways, the whole thing is a relief: I have lived through caretaking for very ill relatives I am not particularly fond of and it is awful. You know as MIL ages, SIL will be the person she attempts to depend on and MIL may find that she did not choose very wisely . . .

:grouphug: The IL relationship is always so fraught with difficulties. I have to say that while I agree with many of the pp in this thread, I do relate very much with what SSTE is saying here. It sounds so harsh, but your primary concern has to be for your DD and your DH.

We are in a similar situation with ILs who have a preference for SIL and her family. She's the favored child between the two kids (always has been), and is more "needy". Though she's significantly older than DH and should have her sh!t together by now. Unfortunately for the ILs, they have treated the DN so callously over the years (and BIL as well - in front of DN, it's kind of horrible) that DN really doesn't care much for them. Kind of ironic and kharmic.

They much preferred visiting with SIL's family prior to our setting firm boundaries, but because of an incident last fall we have really pulled away from MIL/FIL even though they live here in town. We also get a lot of whining (via DH) about MY parents' involvement in DS' life (ILs think they're overinvolved and overindulgent). They live 1200 km away in another country ;) But hey, the IL's had their chance, and screwed it up. I'm not going to cut my parents off because they feel bad. Now, I don't go around bad-mouthing the ILs to DS, and I certainly wouldn't say that they love him less, but I also won't lie and I don't think you should either.

[sweetsue98]

I'm so sorry your family is in the sticky situation. I guess on the bright side, the truth is out and you can manage your expectations. Hopefully, it will lead to less disappointment. You and your DH should be very proud that you are responsible, independent adults that do not rely on your IL's. I feel sorry for your SIL that she is incredibly weak that as a adult and mother, that she needs her mother to function on a daily basis. Hopefully your DD has other people in her life that will bring her joy like a GP's should.