What should I do about this if anything?

[gatorsmom]

My dad passed away recently and my brother and I inherited his hunting land. It's nearly 300 acres of forest with one out building. There are no other improvements to it- no phone, no electricity, no running water. It's pretty secluded and because it's at the end of a road, NEVER gets any traffic. In the summer usually, DH and I camp there with the kids. We bring a camper and leave it there for the summer. For the last 4 months of the year my brother, his son and some family friends hunt here. They stay in a old run-down mobile home that my family has been using there since the early 80's.

We have numerous trails going through the woods and my brother has put up trail cameras all over the place. We have been driving four wheelers there since I was 12yo. We also have some favorite berry patches that I picked nearly annually with my mom, dad and even grandmother. I've always felt safe walking there anywhere I wanted. Until 3 years ago.

My dad was on his four wheeler picking berries when a huge black bear rose up about 30 feet from him and ran off. Apparently, he was picking berries too. We didn't see another one for 2 years. Until this summer. My brother reported NUMEROUS pictures from his trail cameras of not only a black bear frequenting all our favorite berry patches, but a bear with CUBS. Now, I'm not so afraid of running into a random bear because I know to be loud and carry a bell or sing while I'm walking down the trail. But I DO NOT WANT TO RUN INTO A BEAR WITH CUBS. And Im really pi$$ed that I am afraid to walk my favorite trails with my kids. DH suggested carrying a gun. Frankly, I never had to do that until now and I don't want to. I just want the friggin bear to go away. My brother doesn't care much because when he's hunting he's usually carrying a gun and large knife and so do the other hunters. If I did something to get rid of the bear, he wouldn't care.

So, what can I do? I dont' want the bear destroyed, I just don't want her on our land. Any suggestions?

[bubbaray]

If you don't want the bear killed, your only choice is to phone the conservation people in your state/county. Here they won't trap in a remote location like that until the bear actuall attacks.

IMO, I would just avoid the area, esp at this time of year. The bears are trying to fatten up and berries are one of their "scooby snacks". I'd stay FAR away from berry patches, even if you have previously been to them, if there is a momma & cubs in the area.

FWIW, I don't think bear spray and bear bangers do squat against a momma & cubs or a bear eating for hibernation.

I'm pretty bear aware and there is no way I would go out (even with a gun) in the situation you describe. Sorry.

[Reina]

Can you call your state's Dept of Environmental Protection and ask for the bear family's relocation?

[Snow mom]

Bears are part of the ecosystem. Use your common sense and continue to do what you always have. The bears have likely always been there and they are a great sign that the land is healthy. Knowing the bears are there doesn't change much except to make you smarter about potential encounters.

-Be extra vigilant around places where bears are likely (bears like berries too!)
-Keep a secure bear box for food and don't dispose of food outside (expecially nice smelly things like bacon grease.)
-Watch for bear sign (scat, scratch marks on trees, etc.)
-Be loud when you are out and don't let the small kids wander on their own.
-Know what to do if you see a bear. Be loud and act big (this means picking up kids and even putting them in your shoulders if possible to make yourself look larger.) My DH (who is a wildlife biologist) would be the first to pick up rocks to throw if needed. Never run from a bear--they are much faster than they look (and good climbers too.) Always fight back against a black bear, never play dead.

Honestly, I doubt there is any need for concern, even with cubs in the area. If you are aware of your surrounding and don't do anything stupid you shouldn't have problems. Bears don't want any more to do with you than you do with them (especially out in the wilds where they aren't habituated on humans.)

[wellyes]

I agree with the PP. Any trail you walk might have a bear with cubs around, so just use common sense and enjoy the land.

[ABO Mama]

Well, your vacation spot is in the middle of bear territory. You moved into their land. It's your job to learn to live with the bears, IMO. Three hunrded acres of wilderness sounds perfect for wildlife. Keep food and garbage in bear proof lockers. Don't leave anything in the camper.

We live in an area with bears, and we're not even that far out into the woods (and actually near a major highway!).

[gatorsmom]

We live in an area with bears, and we're not even that far out into the woods (and actually near a major highway!).

I'm all about wildlife, except when it can hurt me. I'm really no different from that mama bear- I don't want my cubs hurt. The real problem is that we are so remote back there that it would take a long time to get to a phone to call an ambulance (if our cell phones weren't working) and it would take a long time for the nearest ambulance to get to us.


Can you call your state's Dept of Environmental Protection and ask for the bear family's relocation? I think this is what I will do. The farmers with land adjacent to ours have all said that this bear is new to the area. If I can't get her relocated, I might have one of my dad's friends who hunts bear see if he can kill her with the condition that we get half of the meat. I've never had it before but Laura Ingalls Wilder said it was delicious!

[sste]

I did a little googling and my understanding is that black bear attacks are incredibly, incredibly rare despite many human-black bear encounters. The exception is one kind of black bear but I don't think that kind is in the midwest. One article seemed to suggest that the danger of the black bear varies by region with BC black bears being comparatively the most dangerous but most regions of north america the black bear is not fierce. Apparently the last recorded death by black bear in North America was in the 1700s - - there have been injuries but they have tended to be pretty minor at least according to the internet!

Just a thought from a nature-lover before you start seasoning the black bear soup!! :)

[bubbaray]

I did a little googling and my understanding is that black bear attacks are incredibly, incredibly rare despite many human-black bear encounters. The exception is one kind of black bear but I don't think that kind is in the midwest. One article seemed to suggest that the danger of the black bear varies by region with BC black bears being comparatively the most dangerous but most regions of north america the black bear is not fierce. Apparently the last recorded death by black bear in North America was in the 1700s - - there have been injuries but they have tended to be pretty minor at least according to the internet!

Just a thought from a nature-lover before you start seasoning the black bear soup!! :)


This could very well be skewing my perspective. Black bears here (BC) are definitely dangerous -- mainly b/c they become "garbage" bears and are habituated to people. Grizzlies are more dangerous b/c once they do attack, they kill.

We always have bear attacks here in BC. I'm actually more afraid of cougars/mountain lions than bears.

[Snow mom]

This could very well be skewing my perspective. Black bears here (BC) are definitely dangerous -- mainly b/c they become "garbage" bears and are habituated to people. Grizzlies are more dangerous b/c once they do attack, they kill.

We always have bear attacks here in BC. I'm actually more afraid of cougars/mountain lions than bears.

Yes, the BC black bears are known to be comparatively more dangerous. Even there the danger isn't all that high. I spent three summers in the woods in rural BC (including the summer I was pregnant with DD) and I had exactly 0 scary bear encounters. I saw lots of bears, especially at good berry patches.

I'm kind of hesitant to do this, but here is a wikipedia compilation of bears killing people in NA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
While each of these incidents is tragic, what strikes me is that (1) there really haven't been that many and (2) many of the incidents involving black bears are human habituated bears or pet (!) bears. I can guarantee that your kids are at more risk driving to the property or 4 wheeling. I actually know people who have died in this way. The government is not going to relocate your bear because it isn't a demonstrated threat to anything. The bear is doing exactly what it is supposed to do--living in a secluded area of the woods.

ETA: I noticed your title is "what should I do about this if anything?" I would say give it some time and reflect on whether it's truly a dangerous situation or whether it's become out of proportion in your mind.

[bubbaray]

Yes, the BC black bears are known to be comparatively more dangerous. Even there the danger isn't all that high.


I definitely disagree with this. From Bear Aware (http://www.bearaware.bc.ca/be-bear-aware/bear-smart): Every year hundreds, and in some years well over a thousand, bears are destroyed as a result of conflicts between people and bears. In rare instances, people are also injured or even killed as a result of these conflicts.

We have a lot of bears here. 1/4 of all black bears and 1/2 of all grizzlies.

Lisa, there is good info here (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/bearwld.htm):

When in Bear Country:

Avoid conflict by practicing prevention.
Be alert.
Look for signs of recent bear activity. These include droppings, tracks, evidence of digging, and claw or bite marks on trees.
Make your presence known by talking loudly, clapping, singing, or occasionally calling out. Some people prefer to wear bells. Whatever you do, be heard! It doesn't pay to surprise a bear.
Keep children close at hand and within sight.
Photographing bears can be dangerous. Use a long-range telephoto lens.
There is no guaranteed minimum safe distance from a bear - the further, the better.
Stay away from dead animals. Bears may attack to defend such food.
It is best not to hike with dogs, as dogs can antagonize bears and cause an attack. An unleashed dog may bring a bear back to you.
Never leave pets unattended.
Children should not:

Run or play in areas with dense bush.
Play unsupervised in bear country.
Make animal-like sounds while hiking or playing.
Approach bears, especially bear cubs.
Be encouraged to pet, feed, or pose for a photo with bears, even if they appear tame.
More info here: (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/misc/bears/bearsaf.html)
Avoiding Dangerous Encounters with Bears
There are some simple precautions you must take to prevent the food-conditioning of bears and avoid dangerous bear encounters.

Never feed or approach bears or other wildlife.
Reduce or eliminate odours that attract bears. At the campground, store food in air-tight containers in your RV or car trunk.
Bear caches must be used if they are available at the park.
Pack out all your garbage. Store garbage with your food, out of reach of bears. Do not bury garbage or throw it into pit toilets. Only paper and wood may be burned: plastics, tinfoil, and food items do not burn completely and the remains will attract bears (besides creating an unsightly mess). Storing garbage in bear-proof containers is recommended.
Cook and eat well away from your tent.
Clean up immediately and thoroughly. Never leave cooking utensils, coolers, grease or dish water lying around. Dispose of dish water by straining it and then throwing it into a gray water pit or pit toilet. Solids should be packed out with the garbage.
The odours of cosmetics, toothpaste and insect repellent can attract bears. These should be stored out of reach with your food and garbage, never in your tent. Leave strongly perfumed items at home.
Obey all closures and warnings.
When Fishing

Fish smells are a strong attractant for bears.

Do not store food or bait in your tent and keep your campsite clean.
Bleed and clean your catch in the stream, not at your campsite, and throw offal into deep or fast moving water. If approached by a bear, reel in and leave the area, or cut the line if playing a fish.
Do not handle roe used for bait on picnic tables. Wash your hands afterwards, do not wipe on clothing.
Do not build fires or cook by the river's edge.
While staying in Bear Country


Always keep children nearby and in sight.
Always sleep in a tent - not under the stars.
Obey all park regulations, stay on designated trails and comply with posted warnings.
Hike portages and trails as a group. Solo hiking is not advised — you reduce the risk of an attack by traveling together as a group. Do not let children wander.
Keep pets leashed. If possible, keep pets at home. Free-running pets can anger a bear and provoke an attack.
Reduce the chance of surprising a bear.


Always check ahead for bears in the distance. If one is spotted, make a wide detour and leave the area immediately.
Make warning noises and loud sounds.
Watch for bear sign: tracks, droppings, overturned rocks, rotten trees torn apart, clawed, bitten or rubbed trees, bear trails, fresh diggings or trampled vegetation.
Stay clear of dead wildlife.


Take note of signs that may indicate carrion - such as circling crows or ravens, or the smell of rotting meat.
Carcasses attract bears. Leave the area immediately!
Report the location of dead wildlife to Park staff.
If you have an encounter with a bear, please leave the area immediately and report it to park staff as soon as possible.
Bear pepper sprays have been effective in deterring some bear attacks. However, do not use them as a substitute for safe practices in bear country. Avoidance is still your best bet.
Bear Facts


Bears are as fast as racehorses, on the flats, uphill or downhill
Bears are strong swimmers.
Bears have good eyesight, good hearing, and an acute sense of smell.
All black bears and young grizzlies are agile tree climbers; mature grizzlies are poor climbers, but they have a reach up to 4 metres.
If a bear is standing up it is usually trying to identify you. Talk softly so it knows what you are. Move away, keeping it in view. Do not make direct eye contact.

[Snow mom]

I think that's all great advice, Melissa. In BC of course there are so many bears that learning how to safely live with them is a priority. I know your DH likes to do outdoorsy things and I think it's great that you have quick access to advice about interactions with bears. This is more or less the advice I was summing up originally. I think the official version is better, of course.

[bubbaray]

Sorry, its not aimed at you -- just a sensitive topic for me. I've come between a momma & cubs while Mtn biking. I've grown up with them coming into our cabin. We had a bear trap at our cabin when I was a kid (I'm old, this was a long time ago and there was a small open dump about 5 miles away). I've also come across cougar tracks and had one of those encouters while tenting. I also had a former coworker (barely) survive a Grizzly attack and another friend of mine was stalked by a Grizz.

To top it off, DH took the girls camping this summer to a park known to have TONS of bears, right in the campground. They saw many, just feet away. He saw one in an amphitheatre and took DD#2 closer. I could have killed him (but I wasn't there, so only heard about it from the girls).

[Melanie]

Well, your vacation spot is in the middle of bear territory. You moved into their land. It's your job to learn to live with the bears, IMO. Three hunrded acres of wilderness sounds perfect for wildlife. Keep food and garbage in bear proof lockers. Don't leave anything in the camper.

We live in an area with bears, and we're not even that far out into the woods (and actually near a major highway!).
:yeahthat:

[gatorsmom]

ETA: I noticed your title is "what should I do about this if anything?" I would say give it some time and reflect on whether it's truly a dangerous situation or whether it's become out of proportion in your mind.

I haven't done anything rash because it's no longer camping season. So, for now, I dont' have to worry about it. My brother and his hunting friends may do something about it since bow-hunting season starts here soon for dear and will extend through possibly December. I frankly doubt they will do anything though, if the bear doesn't show itself or get in the way. So, for now, I'm just doing some research on my options.

The fact is that for the last 40 years, we've never had to worry about anything hurting us there. Mine and the kids' favorite place to play is in the woods. They play hide and seek on the trails, I like to go for walks alone or just with Sisi looking for wild flowers, and the boys like looking for wild plums, apples or berries which we have a ton of. They feel good knowing they can just run off to their favorite apple trees and not worry. I like not worrying. I like being able to let them play in the yard (which is surrounded by forest) while I'm getting the camper ready. I don't like living in fear of an attack. Not when for the past 40 years we've never had to worry.

The sad fact is that if the trail cameras show more bear activity over the next few months or next spring, the bear will have to go. Just as I try to protect my kids from everything else that could hurt them, I'll do the same here. I love wildlife, that's why we camp. It's also why I'm torn about this situation. But my own mama bear is telling me the bear has to go. It's not a risk I'm willing to take.

Thanks guys, for your imput. And thank you Melissa, for that information. It kinda cemented my decision for me.

[buddyleebaby]

OP, I have no advice to offer that PP have not already offered. Bears can be dangerous. There may be more bear activity than you have seen in years past, but I am sure that bears have always been there. You are just now aware of it. Which means you must be extra vigilant. Relocating/killing one bear may make you feel more comfortable in the short term, but it is not a long term solution. The long term solution is to learn how to, and teach your children how to, camp/hike safely.

On an admittedly sentimental note, the thought of leaving cubs motherless makes me sad.

[gatorsmom]

On an admittedly sentimental note, the thought of leaving cubs motherless makes me sad.

It makes me sad too. The reason I know there have been no bears in the area for that long is because neighboring farmers who have been in the area for generations said this is the first time they've seen bears around and have spoken to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources about it. The area was heavily farmed for about a hundred years. The bears and wolves were pushed much further north due to the danger they posed. So, yes, it was originally bear AND wolves in the area but with families moving in, they were hunted til the area was clear of them. That was way before my dad's living memory. I suspect it was probably before my great grandfather's time, too, or my dad would have mentioned it. My great grandfather who was born in the area in 1871 lived and farmed here his whole life. Never any talk of bear hunting or trapping. Since they all liked to talk about the "fish that got away," I"m sure I would have heard something of it.

The fact is, yes, the bear are part of this ecosystem. And it is sad to think of cubs being without their mom, since it probably means they will be hunted too. If it appears from our trail cameras that there is a LOT of bear activity on the land that we frequently use, and the DNR won't relocate them, I will look into the possibility of hunting it. It will require a special hunting license, I'm sure, so there's the chance we wont' be able to hunt it.

It bothers me, but it bothers me more the idea of the kids surprising a bear (with her cubs) while frequenting their favorite berry patch. I do everything else I can to protect my kids from perceived risks (phasing out plastic, educating on stranger danger, limiting TV, etc.) even when the real risks are probably much lower. This doesnt' seem any different. If my kids were older, I could explain how to be cautious. But the twins aren't yet 4yo. They run ahead in when we are walking trails and they are oblivious when walking along the edges of the forest picking flowers. They are not afraid- and I dont' want them to be. At least for Cha Cha and the twins, if they knew there was a bear in our forest and that they had to be watchful, I'd never be able to get them to camp there with us. Right now they think nature is beautiful and wonderful. I would be more willing to live harmoniously with a bear on our land when our kids were older and more mature.

[ABO Mama]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the mama bear is not the only adult bear in the area. There has to be a daddy bear, too. And aunts, uncles, cousins...my point is that if you are able to relocate this one mama bear and cubs, other bears will move in on this otherwise vacant piece of land. You will still have to keep your guard up, and act as if a bear is just around a bend in the path.

[gatorsmom]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the mama bear is not the only adult bear in the area. There has to be a daddy bear, too. And aunts, uncles, cousins...my point is that if you are able to relocate this one mama bear and cubs, other bears will move in on this otherwise vacant piece of land. You will still have to keep your guard up, and act as if a bear is just around a bend in the path.

The trail cameras will tell us how often there are bears in the area we frequent most. My brother has them mounted EVERYWHERE, mainly to monitor dear activity. If there the bear has relatives moving into our area, we'll know.

[garnetgirl]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the mama bear is not the only adult bear in the area. There has to be a daddy bear, too. And aunts, uncles, cousins...my point is that if you are able to relocate this one mama bear and cubs, other bears will move in on this otherwise vacant piece of land. You will still have to keep your guard up, and act as if a bear is just around a bend in the path.

:yeahthat:

OP, please don't take offense, but I am a little confused and troubled that someone would be pi$$ed at bears roaming in the woods. I get that this is YOUR land, that you OWN it and all, but don't you think it's reasonable that a few bears could use some of your 300 acres? I mean, that is a huge amount of land, and if it's isolated and usually vacant, bears should expect to feel free to use it. Why should they have to die just because they're being bears?

I can understand people feeling threatened by bears entering established neighborhoods, but this is a forest you're talking about! Where else are they supposed to go?

[kijip]

I tend to agree that you would still need to exert the same amount of caution after you killed the bear as before. The trail cameras are only going to show so much and that is not to say that new bears could not arrive, as the habitat is suited to them. I will not judge you for deciding to hunt it but I would hate for that alone to make you feel safe and then voila, new bear on the scene when you are not expecting it. If you are in bear habitat, then you have to be cautious regardless. The camera can only tell you that it is there, not prevent it from being there in the first place.

[gatorsmom]

OP, please don't take offense, but I am a little confused and troubled that someone would be pi$$ed at bears roaming in the woods. I get that this is YOUR land, that you OWN it and all, but don't you think it's reasonable that a few bears could use some of your 300 acres? I mean, that is a huge amount of land, and if it's isolated and usually vacant, bears should expect to feel free to use it. Why should they have to die just because they're being bears?

I can understand people feeling threatened by bears entering established neighborhoods, but this is a forest you're talking about! Where else are they supposed to go?

I have to admit I am getting a little offended because some here sound like they are more concerned about the welfare of the bears than my kids! What is more important: letting a black bear roam wherever it wants or keeping my little kids safe from death or mutilation? I dont' hear anyone defending the mice that many posters here come here wanting to kill. Mice need a place to live too! They survive well in the same living spaces as humans and pose the smallest possible threat to our health. No one seems to feel bad about the baby mice that will die when their parents are trapped!

The truth is, I have no problems with bears in the deepest parts of our woods. But, according to the pictures taken by the trail cameras, the bears are coming closer to where we camp and keep our camper and our outbuilding. We leave our camper there all summer. And because kids are kids, occasionally they leave food in the camper, sometimes laying around the camp area. The bear could potentially become pests, just like mice.

It's not true that we moved into their area while they were already there. When all my relatives moved into the area, the bear were already gone. As far as I'm concerned, they are moving into my living space. They need to go back to where they came from.

And besides, what is the harm in eating it? As far as I'm concerned, it's got a lot better life than a free-range cow and it would serve the same purpose. And it would CERTAINLY be healthier meat than what I'm buying at the grocery store. I know because it's been eating my berries, apples and plums!

[garnetgirl]

I have to admit I am getting a little offended because some here sound like they are more concerned about the welfare of the bears than my kids! What is more important: letting a black bear roam wherever it wants or keeping my little kids safe from death or mutilation?

I'm sorry if I sounded like I don't care about the safety of your family. Of course I do; it would be an unimaginable tragedy if a bear were to attack one of your children. I posted the way I did because you were describing a visit to the forest, not your usual home. Bears should have some rights in the forest; that is where they came from. If people keep asserting their rights to occupy more and more land, I just don't know where the bears can go, that's all. These bears you haven't noticed before might have been escorted off someone else's land!

[gatorsmom]

These bears you haven't noticed before might have been escorted off someone else's land!

And that would be a great outcome, imo. I'd love to see the bear living somewhere else, happy and free. And if the mama bear and cubs have moved on, that would be great too. I am hoping that our trail cameras are showing fewer and fewer pictures of bear, but unfortunately, the opposite has been the case lately, which why I"m wondering how to handle this.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I have no idea of the cost or whether it is even a practical solution, but could you put up a fence the bears couldn't get through (electric?)? Just thinking out loud here.

Beth

[gatorsmom]

The camera can only tell you that it is there, not prevent it from being there in the first place.

I'm sorry but this statement is insulting. Did you really think I believed I could deter bear or any other pesty wildlife by putting up trail cameras? Actually, I shouldn't have responded to this post at all. Nevermind.

[buddyleebaby]

I don't mean to offend you, I was just trying to honestly answer your question. I think what you should do, when you are there, is take proper precautions and teach your children to do the same. That is for their safety, long term.

Of course if there was an immediate threat of a bear attacking your child, I would say to shoot it and not think twice about it. I disagree that this is an immediate threat, and I don't think it is wise to think that hunting one (or more) bear(s) on such a large piece of land is an effective strategy.

We have bears here. We never see them but I know they are here. We found a footprint in the snow on our deck last year when one decided to come up and investigate our BBQ grill. It is unnerving, and I understand that. What we did was to explain to our children why bears (even little bears) are dangerous, why they should never ever approach a bear, and what to do if they did see a bear. I feel better knowing that they know what to do, but I hope to God they are never faced with a situation where they are forced to use that knowledge. We also made sure DH cleaned the grill completely after grilling, no matter how cold he was. ;)

Again, I don't mean to offend and I know that you are a "Mama Bear" trying to make the best decision for *your* cubs. You said in your first post, that you did not want the bear destroyed, and I was trying to offer support and advice to that end.

[HannaAddict]

I'm sorry if I sounded like I don't care about the safety of your family. Of course I do; it would be an unimaginable tragedy if a bear were to attack one of your children. I posted the way I did because you were describing a visit to the forest, not your usual home. Bears should have some rights in the forest; that is where they came from. If people keep asserting their rights to occupy more and more land, I just don't know where the bears can go, that's all. These bears you haven't noticed before might have been escorted off someone else's land!

I agree with garnetgirl and others who have pointed out that there is not an increased risk, just awareness that yes, there is wildlife of all types not just delicious venison in the 300 acres of forest and wild land. Lisa, you won't be able to keep killing bear after bear. If this mama bear is killed for no reason (just existing on YOUR land), another bear will take her place. Are you going to keep killing all bears you see on your land, can you keep doing that legally? Morally? I really think you should try and look at the real risk of this bear and others and remember your children are in far greater danger as you drive to the property than from a bear attack while there. Of course take precautions and be aware, but don't go on a bear hunt when no reason, just fear but without it being well founded. You have enjoyed the property for years, you just didn't have bear cams, try and relax. Take down the cameras and have your brother hunt the old fashioned way, without technology. And keep enjoying the wilderness.

[HannaAddict]

And that would be a great outcome, imo. I'd love to see the bear living somewhere else, happy and free. And if the mama bear and cubs have moved on, that would be great too. I am hoping that our trail cameras are showing fewer and fewer pictures of bear, but unfortunately, the opposite has been the case lately, which why I"m wondering how to handle this.

Is your brother putting out bait for deer? Or trying to attract deer he can hunt in some way? Just wondering. That could attract bears too.

[gatorsmom]

Again, I don't mean to offend and I know that you are a "Mama Bear" trying to make the best decision for *your* cubs. You said in your first post, that you did not want the bear destroyed, and I was trying to offer support and advice to that end.

Thank you. I know I asked for opinions but I was feeling a little surprised by some of the reactions. Nobody here thinks twice about poisoning or trapping (in some gruesome ways) the little gray pests that can't hurt us but try to humanely get rid of a big fluffy (and admittedly beautiful, based on the trail camera pictures) bear who is dangerous, and everyone gets all up in arms.

I will find a way to warn my kids while camping in a way that doesn't scare the crap out of them. I want them to still want to camp. Maybe I'll also start making them wear a bell when they are playing there. I'm still going to look into have it moved or hunted, though. If we had lots of bear there, that would be a different story. But I still think this is an isolated incident. I really think there aren't that many on our land.

anyway, thanks for the advice and support. No offense taken. :)

[sste]

Gatorsmom, I think you rec'd some helpful info here but why don't you do some more info-gathering with your state or county wildlife dept. As much as I like to imagine myself a true renaissance poster I am no bear expert! I think you need someone who is knowledgable about your local bears, the risk posed, and whether or not/how the risk can be managed. Then you can figure out what makes sense . . .

I know you are not anti-bear.

[bubbaray]

If you have 300 acres and are in bear territory -- you have them on your land. They just haven't become habituated to humans and *they* are steering clear of you in the past, KWIM?

I would contact the conservation people and find out the deal. I would assume that you need a tag/license to hunt a bear, even on your own land, right?

*I* would do everything I could to NOT hunt the momma unless she came in direct contact with me and my kids. I would try to see if they will trap all three bears, if not, honestly, I would avoid the property until next year and hope they left the area.

Can you electric fence off the part of the land that you use the most?? Electric fences definitely work well for bears. Of course, you'd need to keep the kids away too, LOL.

[bubbaray]

Lisa, I just ran this by my DH who is pretty outdoorsy (though NOT a hunter). He said he would fence off the area you use the most and leave the bears alone. Hunting the momma bear means the two cubs will surely die of starvation and/or become garbage bears (b/c they didn't have the chance to learn from momma bear).

[gatorsmom]

Hunting the momma bear means the two cubs will surely die of starvation and/or become garbage bears (b/c they didn't have the chance to learn from momma bear).

That is an excellent point and definitely not something I want to happen.

[bubbaray]

You'd have to ask the conservation people, but my recollection is that the cubs stay with the mom for 2 seasons. So, if they were tiny and "looked" like cubs this year, they will also be with her next year (IIRC, she chases them off after the second year). They all hibernate together the two winters.

Not trying to "pile on" you, but I have to agree it makes me a little sad to think about 2 momma-less cubs. It happens quite a lot here and the cubs are often shot too. Rarely they are caught and relocated, but its not super-successful in rehabilitating cubs to become self-reliant. They need mom to learn skills to keep them away from humans, otherwise the cycle just repeats -- they only know "easy" food like garbage, which encourages the bear/human contact behavior that got mom shot in the first place.

[Snow mom]

Thank you. I know I asked for opinions but I was feeling a little surprised by some of the reactions. Nobody here thinks twice about poisoning or trapping (in some gruesome ways) the little gray pests that can't hurt us but try to humanely get rid of a big fluffy (and admittedly beautiful, based on the trail camera pictures) bear who is dangerous, and everyone gets all up in arms.

I will find a way to warn my kids while camping in a way that doesn't scare the crap out of them. I want them to still want to camp. Maybe I'll also start making them wear a bell when they are playing there. I'm still going to look into have it moved or hunted, though. If we had lots of bear there, that would be a different story. But I still think this is an isolated incident. I really think there aren't that many on our land.

anyway, thanks for the advice and support. No offense taken. :)

If it makes you feel any less piled on (by me, at least) I'm against people trapping/killing the little furry things that live in their house or yards too. It seems like a lost cause telling people that killing mice or squirrels that they find to be a nuisance is a short sighted, cruel thing to do. I've almost posted on threads about killing spiders. It's not just the bears to me. But, when I read your post I could tell you were scared but also recognize the beauty of the bears. I thought there might be a chance that you could live in harmony.

I think getting bear bells for your children is a great idea. Not only will it help keep bears away, but it will help you locate them as they wander.

[gatorsmom]

I think you need someone who is knowledgable about your local bears, the risk posed, and whether or not/how the risk can be managed. Then you can figure out what makes sense . . .

I know you are not anti-bear.

Yep, this thread has definitely made me think I need to do some serious research about this subject. And you are right, I"m not anti-bear. Hope I didn't come across that way. Although, I am a little "anti-bear in my area." :)


If you have 300 acres and are in bear territory -- you have them on your land. They just haven't become habituated to humans and *they* are steering clear of you in the past, KWIM?

I would contact the conservation people and find out the deal. I would assume that you need a tag/license to hunt a bear, even on your own land, right?

*I* would do everything I could to NOT hunt the momma unless she came in direct contact with me and my kids. I would try to see if they will trap all three bears, if not, honestly, I would avoid the property until next year and hope they left the area.

Can you electric fence off the part of the land that you use the most?? Electric fences definitely work well for bears. Of course, you'd need to keep the kids away too, LOL.

Sorry, I didn't see this post before. Man, I hope you are wrong about having other bears in the area. 300 acres might sound big to some, but it's really not all that big. We have trails covering most of it (so we can keep an eye on the land, potential trespassers, get to broken barbed-wire fences that we share with the farmer's adjacent to us, etc.) and until the last couple years have never seen bears. And the adjacent farmers have never seen them either- until the last couple of years. I haven't heard from anyone lately that bears are migrating back. So, I'm thinking this might be a rare occurence.

Unfortunately, I can't fence off the area we use the most. There is no electricity there and it would cost too much to bring it in. When we camp, we use generators. I doubt barbed wire would do much good, besides the fact that I HATE barbed wire. If I had a penny for every barbed wire fence that was bent and broken already on our land, I'd be rich. The old farmers that used to farm our land seemed to love the stuff and sometimes we find it in random spots and trip on it while hiking.

I agree it would be best to have momma bear moved with her cubs. I'll look into that.

[gatorsmom]

But, when I read your post I could tell you were scared but also recognize the beauty of the bears..

Thank you. She is definitely beautiful with her shiny, flowing black coat but scary and huge. It was a complete shock to see her eating from one of my favorite berry patches. And it make me mad too, since she was crushing it. :irked:

[gatorsmom]

Is your brother putting out bait for deer? Or trying to attract deer he can hunt in some way? Just wondering. That could attract bears too.

sorry, I just saw your post. No, my brother doesn't put out anything other than salt licks for the dear. Actually, I think that is illegal here. I know my dad used to say they weren't allowed to do it. He wouldn't have anyway because he felt to lure the dear and shoot them while they were feeding took away the challenge of hunting them. The bear weren't seen around the salt licks, anyway. They were seen around a tiny creek that runs through the property. There's no fish but they were probably thirsty.

[bubbaray]

Well, your conservation people would know more than I do. I can tell you that *anyone* who owns 300 acres in BC definitely has bears and probably cougars too (and possibly wolves). That is a huge expanse of land. Wild animals are usually scared away by humans and that is a big enough piece of property that you wouldn't be present (in their sense of present) all the time.

Barbed wire won't do squat for bears. Only electric fence will and that won't work.

[Melanie]

I'm sorry if I sounded like I don't care about the safety of your family. Of course I do; it would be an unimaginable tragedy if a bear were to attack one of your children. I posted the way I did because you were describing a visit to the forest, not your usual home. Bears should have some rights in the forest; that is where they came from. If people keep asserting their rights to occupy more and more land, I just don't know where the bears can go, that's all. These bears you haven't noticed before might have been escorted off someone else's land!
:yeahthat: Though admittedly I am not a fan of hunting at all, so perhaps I'm not your target audience for the question. I do not want your children to get hurt, but if bears can't live in a forest -what is left for them?

[dcmom2b3]

DH suggested carrying a gun.

Eeek! Noooooo!!!!!!!

I didn't grow up in bear country, but from what I've learned about the creatures, Gun v. Bear likely ends up with a wounded, pi$$ed off bear, not a dead one.

Unless you have the right ammo and mad marksmanship skills, or the the sangfroid to actually wrestle the thing and bust a cap in its skull, a gun isn't going to do much good, likely only harm.

[bubbaray]

The thing about shooting a bear that is attacking you is that they are coming at you head-first. Any hunter will tell you that it is VERY hard to kill a bear with a shot to the head -- it is a small target (relative to the bear's trunk) and a bear's skull is VERY hard. I had a good friend (the one who was stalked by a Grizz) unload his 44 magnum into the bear's skull. He is an expert marksman/hunter. He is sure that every bullet hit the bear. It did nothing -- bear kept charging.

[bubbaray]

Check out the below. I can't picture you hiking with a rifle or shotgun! FWIW, my friend above was shooting a .44 with special bullets designed to kill bears (no idea what they were, but he was permitted to carry a sidearm for work, which is very rare here, he's a forester)

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/tongass/forest_facts/safety/bearfacts.htm

Protection
Firearms should never be used as the alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters. If you are inexperienced with a firearm in emergency situations, you are more likely to be injured by a gun than a bear. It is illegal to carry firearms in some of Alaska's national parks, so check before you go.
A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands.
State law allows a bear to be shot in self-defense if you did not provoke the attack and if there is no alternative, but the hide and skull must be salvaged and turned over to the authorities.
Defensive aerosol sprays which contain capsaicin (red pepper extract) have been used with some success for protection against bears. These sprays may be effective at a range of 6-8 yards. If discharged upwind or in a vehicle, they can disable the user. Take appropriate precautions. If you carry a spray can, keep it handy and know how to use it.

[kijip]

I'm sorry but this statement is insulting. Did you really think I believed I could deter bear or any other pesty wildlife by putting up trail cameras? Actually, I shouldn't have responded to this post at all. Nevermind.

Lisa, I was merely underscoring that since you are in an area with bears (now, regardless of the fact they were not there/noticed in recent decades) that you need to proceed as though a bear could be there at any time. You seemed to be putting a lot of stock in the cameras but they are far from perfect information and they can not tell you where/when you will come upon a bear. That means bear precautions at camp, that means not letting the kids get too far away from you, it means educating even young children to not leave food around and watching to make sure that trash is secured etc. Because at anytime, bears could be there regardless of if you have seen them on the trail cameras or face to face. I have spent a lot of time sleeping out of doors in deep wilderness/ bear territory while doing service projects in national parks so I really do not take this lightly. I totally get the instinct to get them out of there. I just think you now need to have bear awareness and caution your children regardless of if you are able to kill or move the bear. There is nothing offensive there. Just concern and caution.

[gatorsmom]

Lisa, I was merely underscoring that since you are in an area with bears (now, regardless of the fact they were not there/noticed in recent decades) that you need to proceed as though a bear could be there at any time. You seemed to be putting a lot of stock in the cameras but they are far from perfect information and they can not tell you where/when you will come upon a bear. That means bear precautions at camp, that means not letting the kids get too far away from you, it means educating even young children to not leave food around and watching to make sure that trash is secured etc. Because at anytime, bears could be there regardless of if you have seen them on the trail cameras or face to face. I have spent a lot of time sleeping out of doors in deep wilderness/ bear territory while doing service projects in national parks so I really do not take this lightly. I totally get the instinct to get them out of there. I just think you now need to have bear awareness and caution your children regardless of if you are able to kill or move the bear. There is nothing offensive there. Just concern and caution.

thank you for the concern. I definitely do need to work on wildlife awareness with the kids now, that's for sure.

[gatorsmom]

Well, your conservation people would know more than I do. I can tell you that *anyone* who owns 300 acres in BC definitely has bears and probably cougars too (and possibly wolves). That is a huge expanse of land. Wild animals are usually scared away by humans and that is a big enough piece of property that you wouldn't be present (in their sense of present) all the time.

Barbed wire won't do squat for bears. Only electric fence will and that won't work.

I still think it's funny that 300 acres sounds big. Back in the early 70's Dad bought a farm from some retiring farmers. Ten years later another farmer whose farm was adjacent asked my dad if he'd buy him out too knowing that my dad wouldn't divide up the land and sell off pieces. So dad bought his too. They were both considered small farms at the time. Maybe that's why my perception is that it's a small parcel. Also, because farms are for sale all over the place here (not much money in farming anymore. :( ), the land isn't valued very high.

Anywho, there really hasn't been bear or wolves around here for a century. I know from reading the Little House series that there used to be MANY bear and wolves here but I was told that when the settlers moved in and began farming the land, the animals were valued for their meat and furs. With the area so densely settled, the bear and wolves (and bobcats and cougars) were hunted out of our area and pushed back much farther north and into Canada. So I'm not surprised to hear that you have lots of bear and wolves up there. :)