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View Full Version : Do you wish that your parents lived closer or farther away? What about your ILs?



justlearning
09-20-2011, 06:08 PM
For the past 12 years, we've lived over 18 hours away (driving time) from my parents. I wish that we lived closer but not too close--I think living an hour apart would be good.

DH and I have always lived 6 hours away from his parents, and that's perfect for us. He's not very close with them and they're not great with me or our kids, so visiting with them 2-3 times a year has worked out well.

So, what about you? How far away do you live from your parents (and step-parents) and your in-laws? What do you think would be the ideal distance?

Melaine
09-20-2011, 06:16 PM
My parents are an hour away which is fine but they've talked about moving in town which would be great. I would just hate to lose the connections I have in their town from when I was growing up, so on the other hand maybe I don't want them to move here!

DH's parents are in China and we'd certainly like them to be closer!

AnnieW625
09-20-2011, 06:18 PM
When we lived in Nor Cal I lived 20 minutes from my parents, and the future ILs. DH lived in the bay area for 2 yrs. so he was about 2/1/2 hrs. from our parents. For the first 18 months of our marriage we lived 20 minutes from our parents. It worked for us however the ILs wanted to know why DH didn't come over much, but that was because relations were strained between me, and the ILs, things have thankfully gotten much better.

Since we moved to So Cal in late 2004 my parents have been 7 hrs. away. For the first year my in laws were 7 hrs. away also as they hadn't moved to Wyoming yet. Since 2005 my in laws spent January through April or May in Yuma, AZ so that's about 5 hrs. from us, then they spend May through November in Wyoming. They spend almost the whole month of December in Sacramento, which honestly is hard for us because there is constant chatter about what is going on with BIL, BILW, and DN. I feel like our kids get the short end of the stick that time of year. If time permits I think we'll go up there this year for a long weekend though, which seems to be done every other year during Christmas. Sometimes I wish they lived closer so we could see then more, but they don't and I don't want to be driving to see them in Arizona all of the time since they aren't open to driving to meeting us somewhere like San Diego.

Toba
09-20-2011, 06:28 PM
We live 600 miles away from my ILs and 6 blocks away from my parents. Sometimes the lines blur because my MIL takes an active interest in DS (7). She calls him, writes him letters and makes sure to visit as much as she can when she's in our area. She and I have a toxic relationship (we used to be too close) and she can be very manipulative. Now we are civil to each other but I'm fine with her being 600 miles away. She is close to DH and he is her most supportive person after/during her divorce from FIL and general fights she's in/out of with her other children (who also live by her). Right now we are trying to dissuade her from entering into a rather complicated and unsuitable living arrangement down here. Her sister thinks it's a great idea ... us, not so much.

My parents hardly ever stop over. Just in the last year or so, I've let DS go with them (mostly my father, since he just retired) to movies and stuff like that. My dad tries a lot more than my mother does. He opens up the pool every year for DS and his cousins. He is my backup with school for DS when I can't be there (doctor's appointments and such). He has done a complete 180 after he retired. I've never seen such a changed man and can't believe he's the same one I grew up with. LOL

After DH finishes his MBA, we will have many choices to make about employment and possibly a change of address. We both have lived in this area/town for all of our lives. I wouldn't mind a change. I've put my foot down though about moving closer to MIL. I couldn't even imagine DH's mother and siblings on a daily basis. For that matter, mine either.

eh613c
09-20-2011, 06:32 PM
My side of the family lives about 40 minutes away but we don't see each other often (once every 2 months). My ILs live about 4 hours away (driving time) and they are here once a month (stay with us for the weekend). There was a time where they were coming twice a month and it drove me crazy. Since my family give me space, I'm ok where they're at. As for my ILs, wished they lived someplace further.

amldaley
09-20-2011, 06:33 PM
I wish we lived closer to both.

We live 40+ hours drive time from my mother and 17-22 (depending on traffic) from MIL.

I wouldn't want to live right on top of either of our families, but being within a one day drive would be great. I would really love for DD to know our families better and grow up with the cousins, etc. We also never get to take advantage of having family on hand for child care purposes.

ellies mom
09-20-2011, 06:34 PM
I would love to live closer to my parents, brother and sister. Right now, we are 600 miles away. We are all very close and manage to maintain amazingly drama free relationships and my siblings and I hang out socially. So it would be a lot of fun to be able to spend more time with them.

I'm torn on living closer to my MIL and SIL (same town as my family). I think it would be good for the girls and it would make it easier to keep an eye on my MIL's declining mental health if we were local but at the same time I kind of like the ability that 600 miles gives us to not deal with the same declining mental health issues and the normal drama that is my MIL.

ETA- We are actually contemplating a move to the area where our families live. Ideally, we'd live in the downtown part of the larger city near my siblings which is about 25 miles from our parents but there is a possibility that we would live in the downtown part of the smaller city which would be closer to the parents and about 25 miles from my siblings. We did both apply for some apprenticeships at the local utility but getting one is a bit of a long shot, so who knows what will happen.

elektra
09-20-2011, 06:35 PM
IL's live about an hour away and we see them about 1-2x per month at family parties. I would love for my MIL to be closer. I can only take FIL in small doses though.
And my dad is in escrow on a house 5 doors up from us! I am really happy. The upsides way outweigh the downsides in our case all the way around.
All our family except one aunt live in the SoCal area though.

MelissaTC
09-20-2011, 06:38 PM
Both of our families live at least 550 miles away. We honestly like it. My parents have built a home here and come down several times a year. They are planning on moving here next year after my dad's retirement and my sister's wedding. Their house here is 25 minutes away and sometimes it feels like more than that. We have been here on our own for over 13 years. Not sure how we are going to feel once they are here permanently. We try to travel often and are always out somewhere. It is our lifestyle and very easy to do with one child. We love our lifestyle and little family unit of 3. It makes me nervous that things are going to change.

weech
09-20-2011, 06:41 PM
My ILs live about 10 minutes away and my parents live about 30 minutes away. I think I'd be fine living next door to my in-laws, and I wish my parents were 10 minutes away. Is that weird? :rotflmao:

My bro lives halfway across the country and I really, really wish he still lived here. DS barely knows who he is :(

ilfaith
09-20-2011, 06:42 PM
We live about 900-1000 away from both my parents and my in-laws. I would love to be closer to all of them.

It would be nice for the kids to get to know their grandparents better. My parents usually fly down several times a year, but my father-in-law will not fly...or take the train...they've driven down a few times since we've lived in Florida, but they aren't getting any younger (fil is in his early 80s, and mil will be there soon) and have some health problems that do make traveling more challenging. The boys cousins are also all up in New York and New Jersey.

My parents live a little less than an hour from my brother and his family, and my in-laws live about 40 minutes from their other grandchildren. To me this is the perfect distance. Close enough that they can see them frequently, have them around in case of an emergency, use them as free babysitters...but not so close that they are dropping by constantly or so far that when they we do visit one another it's for an extended stay (something about fish and house guests).

SnuggleBuggles
09-20-2011, 06:44 PM
I'm happy being close to both. It is amazingly convenient when we need a baby sitter and the kids adore all the quality time. It helps that both sides of the family are awesome. :)

Beth

rachelh
09-20-2011, 06:49 PM
My parents live a little over an hour away but I wished they were closer. Would make some babysitting and favors so much easier. I am waiting for the day my 16 year old sister is brave enough to drive to us! The idea of just popping into my mom's house and grabbing some dinner for us sounds really enticing.

DH's parents, who are divorced, both live on other continents. One is about a 8 hour flight and the other is a 10+ hour flight. Ummm...can I say I wished they lived farther? Maybe another planet? :bag

amandabea
09-20-2011, 06:54 PM
We are across the country from my parents and I wish we were closer. I don't have in-laws as DH's parents died long before I met him. I wish we had more family or even close friends nearby.

Melanie
09-20-2011, 06:57 PM
Both sets live roughly 6 hours away...I wish my mom lived closer so she could watch the kids without her Dh coming (he's a great Grandpa, but just as much "work" for her as having a third kid around!). For the ILs, well, it's just right. EXCEPT that now when visiting they stay. So, hmm...maybe an hour or two away would be more ideal. ;)

crayonblue
09-20-2011, 06:59 PM
We live 24 hours from my parents and 50 hours from DH's parents. I wish DH's parents lived next door (or with us)!

hellokitty
09-20-2011, 07:14 PM
My parents and in laws both live an hr in opposite directions from us (we're literally the midway point btwn their cities). 1 hr is a good buffer. Both sides tend to be very controlling and can be annoying if you spend more than a couple hrs with them. So, it's good that we live close enough that they rarely ever stay the night, they will just drive home. The bad thing is that we have literally been ditched with the parents. We moved back in state to be closer to both sides of family, and after we moved back, both of my siblings and DH's brother moved OOS. Had we known we would carry the burden of basically having to babysit both sides of parents, I do not know if we would have moved back.

I sometimes wished they live in the same town, since they would probably be able to help out more with the kids. However, to be quite honest, I am not even sure if they would be more involved, even if they lived in the same town. My mom will try to help watch my kids if I give her some notice, BUT she has bailed on me at the last minute before. My mil absolutely refuses to drive to us, saying it is, "too hard" to drive an hr. She is retired and sits at home watching k-dramas all day. I don't like my mil, but it would be nice if she would at least offer to help out more, but at the same time, this arrangement is probably best, since she drives me crazy. I guess it just sucks to know that she doesn't even TRY to help, kwim? I do feel a bit resentful that we rarely get any help with the kids, I have friends whose families live 3+ hrs away, whose parents and in laws will drive to help them out. My parents and in laws feel that it's asking too much for them to drive an hr. I'm not asking for much. Even for them to watch our kids 1x a month so we could have a couple hrs to go on a date would be nice, but both sides refuse to do it unless we go to them, and even then, my mil will refuse to do it So, it's not really surprising that we are not close to them. We would have no qualms about moving OOS away from family. We see them at most, once a month, sometimes only every other month, they are not involved with my kids, I get a little bitter thinking that we moved back to this state to start a family, so that our kids could get to know their grandparents, but that's not going to happen. Esp since both sides b*tched and moaned about how far away we lived when we were OOS and we move back and they seem to have forgotten all the b*tching that they did about us living too far away.

georgiegirl
09-20-2011, 07:37 PM
My parents are a 3.5 hour flight, if you are lucky to find a direct one...if not, it takes nearly the whole day to travel there. Dh's parents live in Europe, so they are really far away. He plans on moving them here in the next year or so. Wish I lived near my family. Not excited about his moving here. Not sure if our marriage will survive.

DietCokeLover
09-20-2011, 07:45 PM
My parents are 1000 miles away, and I'd love for them to be closer.

Inlaws are 1/2 mile away and I think Siberia would be too close.

mackmama
09-20-2011, 07:51 PM
My parents live 30 mins away. My ILs live a couple of states away. I think it's a good arrangement. :)

Twoboos
09-20-2011, 07:52 PM
My mom lived about 20mins away, in the town I grew up in. It was great. She would be here any time we needed, or we'd go over for Sunday dinner, or whatever. Most of my mom's side of the family is around an hr away.

My dad lived about 90mins away, we'd see him about once a month. It was just right.

My brother/SIL live about an hr away, and we hardly see them! Not b/c we don't want to but our schedules are hard to match up. They are always going somewhere or hosting someone.

MIL lives across the country, we see her about 1-2x/year, which is PLENTY. We talk to her/FaceTime her often though.

FIL lives around 10-12hrs away. Too far for us to drive. It works out well.

JoyNChrist
09-20-2011, 07:54 PM
All of our family lives within 20 minutes of us. And I mean ALL of our family. Right on down to second cousins and great-aunts. ;) I have ONE aunt who lives in Houston (about 2.5 hours away), but other than that they're all practically in our backyard.

I'd say I love it/hate it about 80/20 percent of the time.

As annoying as it can be to have everyone in our business all the time, I think it's a really special thing for my children to be growing up surrounded by so many people who love them. (And it helps that, for the most part, we get along well with everyone.)

maestramommy
09-20-2011, 08:22 PM
I do wish my parents lived closer. We used to live about an hour from each other and it was great. I'd go spend every Monday with them. Now we live on opposite coasts so they come and visit once a year for a couple of weeks at a time.

My MIL used to live on opposite coasts. Now we're on the same coast, but still not exactly commuting distance. Added to which, NH is too cold for her much of the year. So she visits maybe twice a year and only for a couple of days at a time. Now we do visit her for a week at a time. At least we used to. But now that the kids are older and Dora is in K this may be the last time we do it during the week that we normally do it (week after Thanksgiving). So we see her more often that we used to, but still not as often as we would like.

wencit
09-20-2011, 08:30 PM
My parents used to live about an hour away by car, then after DS2 was born, they moved to the same city to be closer to their grandkids, so only about 10 minutes away. It was awesome, especially since I am super close to my mom. About 4 months later, we found out we were moving 3000 miles away, which was such an emotional blow. We're still trying to move back sometime next year (cross my fingers).

Now we are on the same coast as my MIL and FIL, who live maybe 4-5 hours away by car. Way too close for me. We have a civil relationship, but it's one of those things where I have to grin and bear it, for the sake of DH and the kids. I'm with the PP who wishes they were on another planet.

wildfire
09-20-2011, 08:33 PM
MIL lives in our basement. This is too close. WAY too close. Sometimes it is nice when she can help, but I'd rather she was helping from across town. My mom is a 4 hour plane ride away, I do wish she was closer.

brittone2
09-20-2011, 09:12 PM
When DS1 was an infant/toddler, ILs and my parents were about 30 mins away.

We had a huge blow up with the ILs around that time. Shortly after that, we moved out of state so DH could pursue his PhD. We asked my parents if they were interested in relocating (they had been considering moving south for a number of years) and they did. They were about 15 mins away from us for those 5 years and it was awesome. We saw them 2-3x a week. If they ran to the grocery store (closer to my house than theirs) they would call and see what we needed, and vice versa. They took the kids 1-2 afternoons a week to give me a break when I was pg. They insisted DH and I take time to go on date nights.

When DH was job hunting, there was nothing appealing in the area at the time due to the economy. We are now back kind of near my ILs (ILs are now about 50-60 mins away). My parents are trying to get back here, but due to the housing situation it is tough. Prices are sooo low now where they are and they would have a tough time finding anything nice where I am without taking on a mortgage. Right now they have low taxes, no mortgage, great weather, wonderful medical services/hospitals/physicians in their area. They are thinking they may stay another 2 years or so in that house and then downsize to a condo.

DH and I are very anxious to be near them again. Thankfully they are retired and we see them every 6-10 weeks or so. We just got back from vacay with them. DH is closer to my parents than his own family and really misses them a great deal.

Our relationship with the ILs has gotten better over time and we see them at least once a month, sometimes more. BIL/SIL have a nephew close in age to my third child, which is cool (no cousins DS2's age on my side).

Giantbear
09-20-2011, 09:17 PM
Parents much closer..... in-laws. much further ..... like pluto

gatorsmom
09-20-2011, 09:21 PM
My parents are both dead now, but when my mom was alive she was great with babies and kids.

My ILs live across the country and that is probably good. When we do get together we all have a good time, and they are great about flying when we need help (like when my dad died). But I don't like how DH acts when he spends any length of time with them so I think it's better we're up here.

s7714
09-20-2011, 09:22 PM
I wish they all lived closer. My parents are in another state. My ILs are only 8 hrs away, but not close enough for babysitting gigs or attending special functions. I'm sad to think that my kids don't know my parents very well since they only see them once every 1-2 years.

vludmilla
09-20-2011, 09:56 PM
My mom lives 90 minutes away and I wouldn't mind if she lived several hours away. I really am not close to her and I hate the guilt that I deal with for not visiting her much. If she were 4 hours away it would be more clear that I couldn't/wouldn't visit as much. My dad lives about an hour away and I wouldn't mind if he lived closer. My IL's are three blocks away and I love it. They are awesome and having them nearby has been nothing but good.

SASM
09-20-2011, 10:18 PM
We currently live 2.5hrs from my parents & family. MIL and one BIL live about 1.25hrs away. We used to live 12 hours away from each. That was actually ideal. We currently have some issues with my parents but barely see them more than we did back when we lived several states away. We see MIL about every 6-8 weeks or so. Saw her about 3-4x year when we lived in VA, as we were right betw 2 of DHs siblings...lots of reasons for her to travel to our area.

niccig
09-20-2011, 10:29 PM
My parents are on the other side of the world - so they can't get any farther. Closer...mmmm, some days I think my Mum is close enough!!!

ILs, I could deal with them being closer as long as it was MIL/FIL moving to near us. MIL is great when her DD (SIL) isn't around. Once SIL is in the room, everything has to revolve around SIL and it annoys the beejebes out of me. Mind you, MIL has said that she'll only consider moving in with DH and I, because she doesn't want to live with her DD, so I'm not the only one that feels this way.

smilequeen
09-20-2011, 10:47 PM
My parents live about a half hour from us. I could totally buy a big piece of land and build a separate house for them on it and think it was perfect. They are the most helpful grandparents I could ever ask for. Seriously...my mom showed up at DS1's hockey practice tonight without being asked b/c she figured she could hold the baby while I helped him get dressed and she just loves watching him play...

My ILs are fairly far away (in Canada). I don't know that I wish they were closer, but I wish they would visit more often. They would not be helpful close by, so I think their more annoying habits would just be amplified, but they love my kids and my kids love them and they raised my DH, so they are good people and I wish they'd see the kids more. It's a lot harder to drag 3 kids on a plane...

SpaceGal
09-20-2011, 10:54 PM
My mom lives 5 hours away (by car) and my in-laws live in Texas...we are in NY. We never see DH's family...they are too cheap to travel, call or send anything and we aren't rich enough to pay for them. My mom is close but she doesn't come visit that often...maybe 2 times a year. Mind you we are all she has in terms of family and grandkids since I am a only child.

Sometimes I wish family was closer to help out once in a while but we have gotten by just fine the last six years. So I don't know how we would do with family closer.

WatchingThemGrow
09-20-2011, 11:13 PM
My parents are 6 and 12 hours away. His parents are 10 min. away.

I'd rather my mom be closer, and I'd rather live within walking distance of his parents. They're great fun. We're not sure if they actually WANT us to buy in their neighborhood, though. We need to ask them soon before we do it.

gobadgers
09-20-2011, 11:30 PM
My parents live about 1 hour away, and we enjoy a really great relationship with them. We see them 3-4 times a month.

IL's live 13 and 24 hours away by car. We also enjoy good relationships with them, although IMO it's at partially because of that distance...

octmom
09-20-2011, 11:31 PM
My parents live about 500 miles away and I wish they were closer. My maternal grandparents were an everyday part of my life when I was growing up and it was great. My folks visit pretty often, especially my mom, but I wish they lived here or nearby. Selfishly, it would make my life so much easier to have some extra help with the kids sometimes, but I also wish my kids saw her/ my dad on a much more regular basis.

MIL lives just about two hours away and that seems to be fine. We go to her place every few months. She rarely comes to see us here. Both SILs live a bit closer to her and see her on a much more regular basis than we do.

sweetsue98
09-20-2011, 11:37 PM
We live 2 hours away from my parents and 3 hours away from IL's and DH's family. There are times I wished my parents lived closer to help with DD and since we are expecting another one in Jan, I could really use the help with the new baby. Then my parents will do something to really irritate me and I'm glad they don't live closer.

MontrealMum
09-20-2011, 11:43 PM
My parents are 1000 miles away, and I'd love for them to be closer.

Inlaws are 1/2 mile away and I think Siberia would be too close.

:yeahthat:

♥ms.pacman♥
09-20-2011, 11:50 PM
i'd love for my parents to be closer...they are more than 1000 miles away. i could really use the extra help/support with the kids, even just for emergencies and such. my parents don't guilt trip us into trying to get them to visit, and it's only my parents, brother and an aunt and uncle that live in the same area (no other kids).

as for ILs, i wish they were a bit closer, but not too close. DH has a huuuge family that all live in the same area and DH doesn't believe in saying no to his family when they ask that we visit. so if we lived less than 2 hours away, we'd be expected to travel anytime someone in his family had a baptism, baby shower, first communion, wedding or whatnot. which would be basically every other weekend considering how large DH's family is and how many kids many of his cousins have (and they are not shy about asking for gifts and such). so i think this inconvenience would outweigh the convenience of having free help with babysitting etc. but now with 5-7 hours drive it is enough that we are only obligated to attend baptisms/bday parties of our immediate nieces/nephews, and we can go to other events only if it is convenient for us, which is fine by me.

monicak
09-20-2011, 11:55 PM
My parents live about 15 minutes away, which I'm thankful for as they are in their 80's and realistically won't be here for too many years to come.

IL's are just under 2 hrs, and we see them about 1-2x/month.

I just hope our kids stay somewhat close to us when they are grown up & we are old & gray!

mjs64
09-21-2011, 12:05 AM
DH and I live in SoCal; his parents live in Minnesota, and mine live in Texas. DH and I grew up in MN and TX, respectively. Before DS, we were thrilled with the distance we had between us and our parents. Now? We are pursuing job opportunities in Minneapolis and Dallas. We want DS to develop relationships with his grandparents. And, um, some free childcare would be a nice added benefit. :bag

ETA: I'm lucky that I enjoy (largely) my relationship with my ILs.

crl
09-21-2011, 12:53 AM
We are in California. My family is in the mid west. I wish we lived closer to them, but I'm not moving back to the mid west for a variety of reasons. My in laws are on the East Coast. Thats fine with us.

Catherine

Nooknookmom
09-21-2011, 03:39 AM
CLOSER!!! We just returned from Nana and Papa's and my 4 yo tells me almost every day that she misses them and wants to go back

I want to be over there though, i wouldn't want them here. They are in GA and we are in CA. It really stinks. I have always wanted to move back to the South where was born, but we have lived in Ca 20 years and have a business, friends, etc. and I think DH is afraid of starting fresh. i see his point, but i'm more of a glass-full gal and see us accomplishing a move and doing well.

We need to make a decision soon (either of us) b/c of my parents age and God forbid somthing happen to one of them and they need care and i'm all the way over here :(

MIL...just moved too close....2 states away :eek:

longtallsally05
09-21-2011, 10:46 AM
So, what about you? How far away do you live from your parents (and step-parents) and your in-laws? What do you think would be the ideal distance?

When we lived 5,000+ miles away, my ILs were the perfect distance away from us. I did wish I lived closer to my parents though, and still do. Now the ILs are about an 8 hr drive and my parents live a good 2-4 day drive away, depending on your road warrior spirit. If I had it my way, I'd be about a 10-20 minute drive from my parents. My ILs came to visit DH only once (whe DH & I married) in the 5 years he lived in the same town in which my parents now live. That would be perfect!

wolverine2
09-21-2011, 10:49 AM
My parents live 700 miles away- I wouldn't mind if they were closer (they are closer in the summer and I like it).

MIL lives in another country. I actually wish she were a little closer so she wouldn't come visit us and stay for 5 weeks at a time!!

twowhat?
09-21-2011, 10:50 AM
My parents and MIL are both about 45 min away. My parents are working so they can only come on weekends anyway, but MIL is retired and hates to drive (even though she's a perfectly capable and safe driver) so I do wish she were closer. Actually, I wish she lived with us. And in fact, the new house we bought has a nice guest bedroom/bathroom on the first floor, tucked privately away, and we wanted that for her should we ever be able to convince her to move in:) We all get along fabulously. Our kids are the only grandkids they will ever have since DH is an only child and my brother has passed on. If we had a huge house where everyone could live in and have their own private spaces, with garage parking for everyone, I'd be in heaven.

Ceepa
09-21-2011, 11:08 AM
I wish we were closer to my parents but we are in that sweet spot with ILs: too close for them to stay overnight, too far for the drop-in visits. :p

swissair81
09-21-2011, 12:40 PM
My parents live 5 minutes from my house and my in laws live in Switzerland. I love both of them and I wish that they both lived close. At the very least, I'd love for my in laws to live in the US, so we could afford to go visit them on our own. At the moment we get to see them when they buy us plane tickets to visit for holidays and at family occasions (engagement, wedding, bar mitzvah, birth of a new grandchild). Luckily in this past year I had a baby, my bil got engaged, another bil had his bar mitzvah, and my first bil got married last week. Seeing them 4 times in a little over a year is unprecendented. I wish it happened more often.

hellokitty
09-21-2011, 01:40 PM
I wish we were closer to my parents but we are in that sweet spot with ILs: too close for them to stay overnight, too far for the drop-in visits. :p

Same here with the sweet spot. I feel bad for my brothers, b/c every time either sets of parents visit, they have to STAY at their home for an extended bit of time and you know how it is with houseguests, even if you like them, a couple days is enough. If you have parents or in laws who drive you nutso, it really sucks. At least I only have to deal with my parents and in laws for a few hours at most and then they LEAVE. It's glorious this way, but in other ways, I have to deal with more BS than my brothers do living OOS. I guess that the torture for me comes in smaller, more frequent chunks, but it is a large, infrequent chunk for them.