Please tell me why my DS's behavior seems to be regressing

[HIU8]

Ok, so it's a month into school. DS is having all sorts of issues with getting up and getting ready in the morning. We are working through those. He is fine getting on the bus and during school. After school (literally getting off the bus and into the car) comes tantrum #1 (either not the right snack, to little snack, to much snack etc...). Tantrums usually go on for whatever reason until dinner. Bathtime (which has always been an issue) has gotten worse again. DS refuses to come upstairs. We resort to races with mommy or daddy to just get him upstairs. Once upstairs he promptly runs into his room and hides (EVERY.SINGLE.EVENING.). This has been going on for MUCH LONGER. We have tried reward charts and incentives and DS could care less. He has also added running and hiding when it's time to brush his teeth. I will not chase him. The other night he had his nightstand with all his most valuable possessions removed from his room (tantrum for that lasted well over an hour). Tonight I had to lift him off his bed and "guide" him into the bathroom. He screamed at me the entire time (when he hides he also laughs at us). We have been through behavior therapy with him already. We stopped at the suggestion of the therapist. I want to go back. I cannot live this way. DS is almost 7. His behavior is totally uncalled for, and DH and I know he knows better. No matter what we say about expectations, incentive system, special time with mommy or daddy, NOTHING is working. We are also doing consequences. We are at our wits end. I love DS, but I HATE the way he acts and I HATE that DH and I are not able to get through to him.

I do not think this is a part of DS's ADHD and sensory issues, but maybe I am wrong.

[ahisma]

I'd guess that he's really exhausted by school. It sounds like he's doing well at school, but is tapped out at the end of the day by working so hard to "be good".

I'm seeing a similar thing, on a different level with my 3 yo. He's great at school, but the moment I walk in to pick him up he loses it. He's happy to see me, but he's just out of control - bouncing off the walls, literally. He came home with a goose egg the other day. I even had a mom come up to me and tell me that I should try a time out - gee, thanks lady.

Anyway, after talking to MIL (retired elementary special ed), we determined that he probably has some sensory issues and is really struggling to hold it together during the school day. He does, but the cost is that he's totally unable to control himself after school (only 2 hours!). We're moving on to an OT eval (there are other issue too, but that's a different topic all together.)

I know that your DS is older, but thought I'd throw it out there.

[HIU8]

DS has been in OT for 2 years. He also does Karate as another activity that requires motor planning. He is also in speech 2x/week during school (pragmatics issues and tongue thrusting). We have a lot of OT equipment at home also and we do have DS use it when we see he is in need (which is often). I feel like we have hit a plateau where that has stopped working as well (the stuff at home). We could go back to 2x week OT but honestly we cannot afford it b/c of the speech therapy.

DS also needs his rest time after school. He gets his veg time b/c honestly it would be worse without that as well. I just know that this current situation is going to take the better part of the fall/early winter to work through, and honestly, it's exhausting to parent a child like DS. Sometimes I've just had about as much as I can handle without shutting down myself.

It seems that the things we worked on in behavior therapy have stopped working as well (and it did work well for a long time). I think I'm just drained and tapped out right now in addition.

[ha98ed14]

I'm confused as to why the therapist would advise you to stop coming... I have never heard of that. You are there for help. If she feels she can't help you, she should give you a referral to someone else. I would go to a new therapist, and honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would be looking at medicating him. Or if he's already medicated, increasing the dose or trying another med. It's effecting your quality of life together as a family. I don't think he (or anyone else) should be given that kind of power to dominate the family life.

[HIU8]

It was determined that DS's issues were more situational and that we had things under control (that was over the summer....). And yes, we are considering medicating him. I'm going to be talking to our developmental ped this week about things. And yes, our quality of life is suffering right now (all 4 of us).

[ha98ed14]

It was determined that DS's issues were more situational and that we had things under control (that was over the summer....). And yes, we are considering medicating him. I'm going to be talking to our developmental ped this week about things. And yes, our quality of life is suffering right now (all 4 of us).

I want you to know I did not intend to sound trite in what I said. I've been in therapy off and on in my adolescent and into adult life. Everything I've learned says that one family member does not get to dominate the whole family life (that person was me), and that medication can be a huge help in keeping the problem behavior under wraps. (Again, that is my behavior I'm speaking of...). Good luck. I hope the dev. ped has more helpful answers.

[BabyMine]

Does he get a bath every night? I have to be careful with M after school or I get a tantrum. We stopped taking away his toys because it just. didn't. work.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I'm wondering if you can give him more control of the things he needs. For example...have HIM pack the snack for afterschool so it is just what he wants. You could have 3 standing options and let him pick out/pack his snacks for the whole week or one day at a time. With the rest of the evening's activities, you could write them out on little cards and make a time-line of what time things need to be done. Let him arrange them and try doing them in his order. As he gets each item done, reward him with verbal praise, a hug, a candy or whatever it is that motivates him. It really sounds to me like he knows he can get a rise out of you by doing x,y, or z behavior. I would be inclined to step back and let him have some independence getting through the things he needs to do - with the goal of getting done by bedtime storytime with mom or dad, whomever he chooses.

Also, can baths be every other night? Seems like it may lessen some of the drama. What happens if you just walk away and ignore the behavior and go about your own business, concentrate on DD, etc?

[HIU8]

snack is in the car on the way home from the bus stop (bus stop is 20 minutes from home). I find that if he eats often things are better. I always ask what he wants and pack that (in the morning). By the afternoon he has changed his mind. I also find that sticking to the exact same routine every single day helps. So bath every night b/c if not then he can't handle it even more. He does much better with the expected routine (so you can imagine what happens if we stray from the routine--behavior is 1000 times worse than it already is).

We do walk away and ignore the drama. Sometimes the drama goes on for several hours even when we walk away. The issue happening is that DS is getting less sleep and he HAS to get up at 6:30 am so we can leave for the bus by 7:10. He is not allowed to be driven onto school property (they have a deal with the neighborhood they are located in to lessen traffic through the neighborhood). So he has to catch the bus or he cannot get to school. So, with less sleep, getting up in the morning is bad as well.

As for giving something to DS that motivates him. It's a new toy or McDonalds. We do use those things. But honestly, I am not going to reward DS with McD's several times a week (that is his reward of preferance).

DH read something about kids with ADHD using meditation to help them. We are looking into that now to see if that can help DS at all.

[JTsMom]

I think it's totally his ADHD/SPD at work! He sounds exactly like Jason. And on that note, :hug::hug::hug:. I get it!

I would definitely look into meds and getting back into therapy. When you get to that point, you've got to do something.

I'm going to throw out a bunch of stuff, just in case any of it might help. Have you tried any dietary changes? Feingold is helping here. It's not a cure-all by any stretch, but it's helping.

We homeschool, and since we've started this school year, I've started using a tighter schedule which is posted, and a sticker system that's goes along with it, and DS is enjoying that. I think being able to say, "I know you don't want to do X, but look at your chart- it's what's next" puts the blame on the schedule, and takes it off of me, kwim?

In your case, I wonder if making a chart of some sort, and letting him set it up would help? Kind of like was described above, but I'm thinking something like having a meeting, letting him have some input, then having him actually do the setting up might help. I used some $1 pocket charts from the dollar section of Target, but I've also used velcro and posterboard in the past. On some of our things, I have stickers on the back, and when he completes the task and flips it over, there's a reward sticker on the back. Silly, but he likes it.

Why do you think he resists baths? Does he just not like them, or is he stalling to avoid bed? If it's the former, what about showers instead? If it's the latter, can you change it around so that the bath is right after school? My ped rec'd putting a ton of epsom salts in the tub for J- I can't remember why exactly, but it's supposed to be calming for some reason. He seems to like it, so it must help a little.


Another thing that really helps me is to shift my mindset. It doesn't change DS's behavior, but it helps me cope. He doesn't want to act like this. Nobody likes to act like that. He's probably embarrassed and frustrated with himself too. His brain is just different. Just like if he was having a seizure, or something, he can't always control how he's acting. Like I said, it just helps me to get through it thinking of it that way.

How about brushing protocol? That helps here when times get tough. Weighted blanket in the car? Silly putty or similar? Stress ball? Visual timer for in the evenings?

One last thought- have you tried going to a support group?
http://www.chadd.org/

[daisymommy]

Hugs :hug: This is the exact kind of behavior, along with destroying property, and being violent when he would tantrum, that pushed me over the edge and had DS put on medication. When I have said that in the past that medication saved our family, you know what I mean now. I no longer had a choice.

I absolutely believe it's his ADD/ADHD and sensory issues. These kids can only hold it together for so long, being bombarded by overhead lights, so many kids around them, people bumping into them in the halls, smells, sounds, and they load it up in their system for 7 hours a day, like a ticking time bomb, and then explode when they get home.

When DS comes home, I try not to talk to him or engage him at all. He's snarly and irritable. I let him sit down and veg out in from of the TV, computer, or video game for awhile. I remember reading a study about how electronic media has a soothing, trance like effect on kids such as ours, and it really holds true. So in our case, I'm okay with using it for a short period of time in the afternoon (up to an hour). I also give him a protein rich snack while he's doing this, to balance out his blood sugar (another key to success!).

Then it goes off, and he's in a much better mood. He then goes out to run and around and play outside for a couple hours, comes in for homework and dinner.

We do not do nightly baths or showers, because my DS reacts to them due to the sensory input. He has since he was an infant. So I brace myself, do it before dinner when I have more time, and only do it every few days (thankfully he isn't old enough that he has b.o. yet; that won't be fun when it comes to everyday! but hopefully by then he can handle it).

The epsom salt baths that JTsmom was talking about is due to the magnesium. Magnesium levels are often very low in kids with ADHD, sensory & autism spectrum disorders. But magnesium is needed for a healthy, functional sensory integration system. By taking a bath in it (up to 1 cup in a bath) the body absorbs it, and often will be calming to them. BUT it have a laxative effect if you use too much, if they swallow the water. Also some kids get revved up with the baths, as their body gets used to it. So proceed with caution! Let me try to find a link I have on hand somewhere... http://www.feingold.org/DOCS/EpsomSalts.pdf

Some great books, if you haven't read them already:
-Raising Your Spirited Child
-The Difficult Child
-The Explosive Child

Hang in there! And I hope it gets better soon. I would contact a doctor soon regarding meds if you are open to that.

[elliput]

I'm also in the "I do believe it is the ADHD/SPD" boat.

Recently, I read Positive Discipline for Children with Special Needs: Raising and Teaching All Children to Become Resilient, Responsible, and Respectful (http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Discipline-Children-Special-Needs/dp/030758982X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1317477315&sr=8-9). It has helped me quite a bit in evaluating DD's behavior and how to manage it. As you have probably figured out, your DS is playing you. You need to find some tools to manage this and give in positive incentive to work with you.

[daisymommy]

I'm also in the "I do believe it is the ADHD/SPD" boat.

As you have probably figured out, your DS is playing you.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you here. But it sounds like you feel he has total control over himself and his emotions as well as his special issues, and is *choosing* to "play her." I personally don't think he is playing her, but that he is overcome with his own special needs, and needs help to be taught how to be more in control of himself & to calm down. Until a child has those tools to choose from, I wouldn't say that they are making a choice.

[elliput]

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you here. But it sounds like you feel he has total control over himself and his emotions as well as his special issues, and is *choosing* to "play her." I personally don't think he is playing her, but that he is overcome with his own special needs, and needs help to be taught how to be more in control of himself & to calm down. Until a child has those tools to choose from, I wouldn't say that they are making a choice.

I don't believe he has full control of himself. And I admit I was very broad in my statement. Some of what he is doing though is using specific tactics to get what he wants (or not do what he doesn't want)- i.e. hiding when it is time to brush his teeth. That is a misguided behavior and he is purposefully doing it so that he doesn't have to do the task.

[daisymommy]

okay, gotcha :)

[Simon]

Another yeah that to it sounds like he is just falling apart after working so hard to hold it together all day. A few things that may help.

We have Ds1 pack a snack bag for the week with several options so he has some level of control. I just use one of those zipper make-up bags from some give away to keep them all together.

I would not fight the bath battle so often unless he really smells or is quite dirty. I might also teach him to use a warm washcloth for a nightly rub down. Depending on his sensory stuff, the heat/texture could be good or bad and he can control the pressure.

Also, once he goes into his room to hide. Can you just turn out the light and say, "Goodnight." Is there any reason you can't try for PJ's and teeth brushing someplace downstairs?

At least temporarily, it might help to shift the locations/timing of some things to try and break the current patterns he has fallen into. Ex. Ds1 fought teeth brushing for awhile because he was already too tired. So, we started brushing immediately after dinner and then it was done.

[hbridge]

Could he be overscheduled? My DC NEEDS down time EVERY DAY. If DC doesn't get it, life is unbearable.

[gatorsmom]

Hugs :hug:

I absolutely believe it's his ADD/ADHD and sensory issues. These kids can only hold it together for so long, being bombarded by overhead lights, so many kids around them, people bumping into them in the halls, smells, sounds, and they load it up in their system for 7 hours a day, like a ticking time bomb, and then explode when they get home.

When DS comes home, I try not to talk to him or engage him at all. He's snarly and irritable. I let him sit down and veg out in from of the TV, computer, or video game for awhile. I remember reading a study about how electronic media has a soothing, trance like effect on kids such as ours, and it really holds true. So in our case, I'm okay with using it for a short period of time in the afternoon (up to an hour). I also give him a protein rich snack while he's doing this, to balance out his blood sugar (another key to success!).
...

We do not do nightly baths or showers, because my DS reacts to them due to the sensory input. He has since he was an infant. So I brace myself, do it before dinner when I have more time, and only do it every few days (thankfully he isn't old enough that he has b.o. yet; that won't be fun when it comes to everyday! but hopefully by then he can handle it).



:yeahthat: This is so true of Greenbean too. If he has had too much visual, audio or tactile stimulus, he freaks out. Tantrums, throwing things at the floor, wall or siblings, screaming, etc. It gets worse if he's hungry. To make matters worse, if he's engaged, he will forget or refuse to eat. I imagine that after a full day of school, Greenbean would be a bear. I think Daisymommy's got a great plan there for children with sensory issues. I know that Greenbean settles down immediately if I hand him an ipod with a TV show or a fun game on it. I can even get him to eat then too. Sometimes I have to get him to eat a little bit so I can then get him to calm down and have a meal with us.

As for the baths, we have problems with that too. I have to have the water at 95 degrees or he wont' get in. It's either too hot or too cold. I can add warmer water after he's in and is engaged in playing but I have to do it quickly because the noise of the tub filling is too loud for him. We limit his baths to the weekends.

I'm hoping some of these insights we've had with our SPD kid help you find tactics that work with yours.


Could he be overscheduled? My DC NEEDS down time EVERY DAY. If DC doesn't get it, life is unbearable.

I agree with this too. It's tough finding a balance between scheduled enough so that he feels more in control of his world and overscheduled so that he's exhausted and overstimulated. It's something we are always working on.

I hope you find some relief soon. :hug:

[HIU8]

DS is allowed to watch TV when he gets home from school b/c he needs the down time so badly. I know tons of folks who limit or do not allow TV. Honestly, DS would go nuts without the veg time (we don't own an iPOD etc... so TV it is).

What we normally do is DS knows what needs to be done for bed. It's his choice the order and where (bath, teeth toilet book bed in whatever order he wants so that bed is the goal). He often gets changed in the family room. Plus, he has a snack before bed (he always has and it helps the routine). We have found that no TV during snack works much better than allowing him even a few minutes of his "shows".

The times we just turn off DS's lights and say goodnight (when he is hiding) he starts screaming at the top of his lungs. What we have done is go back and tell him to not be so loud and when he feels he has gained control we are ready for him (this can be 10 minutes to an hour). He has asked me to tickle him when he needs to "get out of the loop he is in". Tickling works for him something like deep pressure and he is starting to recognize more and more when he needs it.

And yes, I do believe that DS is playing us, but that his ADHD and SPD are also playing a role. Sometimes it's just hard to figure out which issue is most prominent. He is a little boy and I know he acts the way little boys will act--and then mix in the ADHD and SPD.

His biggest issue is transitions (any transition). It took about 2 years to overcome the transition of going from the house to the car (getting shoes and coats etc...). He is now ok with this and does not have nearly the issues he did. We work with warnings about transitions that could start up to 30 minutes before a transition is going to happen. Although, for some things it works well and for others not.

I know this is a process for DS. there are times when it's just extra hard for all of us.

[HIU8]

Lori,

thanks. We were doing the brushing protocol but I stopped it. It's going to start up again. DS also has a choice of bath or shower (and he can bathe himself in the shower and likes to do that).

We were doing picture stories and need to go back to it. Although, this time I need DS to draw the picture and "write" the story. We have never done the weighted vest.

DS also could care less about a sticker system. I have done the small toy system (bakugan etc...) that he responds to.

I'm going to look into the epsom salt. Also, we have not gone full feingold, but we did remove dyes from DS's diet and noticed a change with that.

[HIU8]

Thanks for the info on epsom salt. I am going to look into it. I think my issue with the meds is that ppl have told me that meds are for when DS is losing friends, falling behind in school and exhibiting behaviors in school and at home (not just home). Honestly, DS is in K. School is more like playtime still (no homework and play to learn). DS LOVES school. It's at home where he loses it. I want to talk to the developmental ped about meds b/c I can only see things getting worse. I know I made a promise to myself to not go near meds but manage DS with behavior therapy etc..., but I think I was kidding myself. If meds will help (along with everythign else we are doing) then I'm all for it.

[sste]

Your behavioral therapist should welcome you back for a "tune-up" - - just a visit or two or three to deal with the transition from school and other issues. I often forget there is a middle ground between starting up therapy full-force and nothing . . . but that is a very valuable service your former therapist should provide. If you weren't happy with your former therapist you could also look for a new one.

Lots of support to you! That sounds very stressful.

[egoldber]

I often forget there is a middle ground between starting up therapy full-force and nothing

:yeahthat:

For awhile, older DD was seeing someone weekly. But now we are seeing her therapist every 3-4 weeks. It gives her a safe, neutral place to talk through issues, work on keeping her coping skills up and maintains the relationship with the therapist so that if she needs more intensive help, it's not like starting all over again.

[JTsMom]

If you noticed a change with the dyes being removed, really think about doing full on Feingold. I thought it couldn't possibly make a difference for us b/c we already ate 90% or more natural/organic, so I was really resistant to trying it, but it has worked more than anything else we tried, including GFCF. We're through Stage 1 (6 weeks), and at the point of trying to add back in some things, but almost everything I add back, in results in a disaster, which is kind of good, b/c it reaffirms that the diet works, kwim? Plus, it's about 100 times easier to do than GFCF imo. We're doing both still, b/c I'm trying to tweak one thing at a time, and do it slowly. I tend to change 10 things at once, then never know what is causing problems/helping, so I'm trying to be more scientific at this point.

[daisymommy]

I absolutely agree with JTsMom. I forgot you hadn't gone all the way with the Feingold diet, otherwise that would have been my first and foremost answer to you.

Whenever DS acts that way, I know he has eaten something he shouldn't have!
Is he eating in the school cafeteria? Cause you never know whats in that food, and its almost always full of preservatives, dye in the chocolate milk, etc.