How should I have handled this?

[anonomom]

My neighbor just came by with her son, selling popcorn for the Boy Scouts. She is a nice woman and I like her kid, and if it had been anything else I would have ordered something just to be supportive. But it's the Boy Scouts, and I just cannot support an organization that excludes gay kids and atheists. (I have no quibble with their right to discriminate, but I do not want to support that discrimination).

I didn't want to just say "no" and have her think I was just being unneighborly, so I asked to speak to her for a moment. I said I would love to support her child and would happily do so for pretty much any other organization, but I couldn't support the scouts. She was very gracious, but now I am wondering if I handled it improperly. Would a simple "no" have been better? I don't want to offend my neighbors any more that they want to offend me, so I don't know if I did the right thing.

By the way, i know that many kids are very happy as Boy Scouts and that the organization does many fine things. I'm not trying to trash the scouts here. I just don't want to support them, financially or otherwise.

[TwinFoxes]

I'd probably just say no, and later if I saw my neighbor explain why. It really is a sticky situation.

[cvanbrunt]

I think you handled it just fine. It's what I would have done. You left the door open to help out another time with another organization.

[3isEnough]

I think you handled it just fine. It's what I would have done. You left the door open to help out another time with another organization.

:yeahthat:

[hillview]

I think you handled it just fine. It's what I would have done. You left the door open to help out another time with another organization.
:yeahthat:

[justlearning]

Considering that popcorn is the only fundraiser that Boys Scouts does (I believe that's correct), I would have just said, "I'm sorry but we don't eat sweetened popcorn but please come by next time you're selling something else." But I guess that could then lead them to ask directly for a donation for the Boy Scouts, so perhaps what you did was best.

[SnuggleBuggles]

A simple no would have been better. I have a Scout and it took me many years to decide to do it and I only joined because our organization is uber liberal and wouldn't discriminate, even if it bucks the national model. Different troops are different. I very much dislike it as a whole and would have been thrlled with an alternative. As it is we try hard to talk ds out of doing it. But, since he's doing it we sell the popcorn; ds1 loves doing it too.

FYI, they sell lots of kinds of popcorn including plain popping kernels. the toffee is repulsive.

Beth

[justlearning]

FYI, they sell lots of kinds of popcorn including plain popping kernels. the toffee is repulsive.

I didn't realize that they also sell plain. We like the chocolate-drizzled popcorn--yum!!

[MMMommy]

I think you were honest and forthright, which is admirable. If it were me, I would have chickened out and just said my family doesn't eat the product. I wouldn't have given the truthful explanation, but that's because I am chicken! Good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

[wellyes]

I probably would not have brought it up in front of her son, since boy scout age (11-14ish?) -- I'm not sure the discussion about implications of atheism and excluding gay people is best prompted by neighbors refusing a fundraiser.

[mommylamb]

OP- The exact same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago, and I responded similarly for the same reason. I didn't go into detail, but just said that I didn't support the boy scouts as an organization. I felt pretty guilt wracked about it, but I just can't bring myself to provide any financing whatsoever to an organization that stands against my principles so much.

[anonomom]

I probably would not have brought it up in front of her son, since boy scout age (11-14ish?) -- I'm not sure the discussion about implications of atheism and excluding gay people is best prompted by neighbors refusing a fundraiser.

We asked him to go say hi to my daughter while we talked for a moment. He's only 8 or 9, and I figured it wasn't my place to introduce the topic to him. He knew something was up, though -- he looked worried.

[rlu]

boy scout age (11-14ish?)

Cubs are from 1 to 5th grade, boy scouts start (technically) in the April/May of their 5th grade year when cubs bridge to boy scouts. So yes, boy scouts start around age 11 and go up to 18. Cubs start at 6 or graduation from kindergarten.

OP - if you want to support the child in his endevours but not support the national organization, just give a cash donation. Cash donations stay at the pack level and do not go to the national organization. If you think becoming a scout made him intolerant by association, then don't give. We're scouters and I have had discussion with my gay friends (one is married to DS's Sunday school teacher) about his Scout involvement and they haven't had an issue since they know US and what we believe. Becoming a boy scout does not mean you must discriminate/hate homosexuals or atheists - don't confuse the individual with the organization.

[Ceepa]

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to support an organization based on your beliefs, but I would have said 'no, thank you' and just purchased from him the next time he had a different fundraiser.

[hellokitty]

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to support an organization based on your beliefs, but I would have said 'no, thank you' and just purchased from him the next time he had a different fundraiser.

:yeahthat: fwiw, ds1 is a cub scout. We don't agree with the bsa stance, since we are atheists and support gays. We have no alternative scouts in our region and our pack is very liberal. I would have been offended that we were automatically clumped under the beliefs of the BSA.

[mjs64]

Oh my! I did not know/did not remember that the Boy Scouts discriminated against gays and athiests! Now I feel badly about buying popcorn last week. I do not want to support them! I think you did the right thing.

[wendibird22]

I applaud your honesty. It sounds like you spoke to her in a respectful manner and it doesn't sound like she was put off by it. I'm chicken and probably just would've said no but I wouldn't have been bent if the shoe was on the other foot and you told me why you weren't supporting it. And you never know, maybe mom didn't know about the BSA practices so you may have even raised her level of awareness.

[LMPC]

I think you handled it just fine. It's what I would have done. You left the door open to help out another time with another organization.

ITA. And FWIW, this is how I have handled the same situation with my neighbors.

[DrSally]

I know this is off topic, but I've always said that we don't buy Boyscout popcorn b/c of allergies. I thought I had read an ingred label once and it was processed in a facility w/nuts. Not sure if this is true currently. I also don't like flavored popcorn to begin with.

[niccig]

:yeahthat: fwiw, ds1 is a cub scout. We don't agree with the bsa stance, since we are atheists and support gays. We have no alternative scouts in our region and our pack is very liberal. I would have been offended that we were automatically clumped under the beliefs of the BSA.

Not everyone in BSA agrees with their principles. I know that. But I'm still not gong to financially support an organization that does have these principles. I'm not the only person that feels this way, as the replies to this thread have shown.

How else was the OP to handle this? Give money to an organization that's against what she believes because she likes the family asking for it? Yes, she could have just said "no" but that's not neighbourly and you can't really lie and say you don't like popcorn, as it would have been an obvious lie if they're ever seen eating popcorn at another time. And by not telling the truth, the family will try again next year to sell them the popcorn. Now the OP knows that cash donations stay at the pack level, she could do that next time.

I think she treated the situation as well as she could. She said no, made sure the boy didn't hear her reasons why and explained to the mother, so they know other organization would be fine. The BSA does a can drive for food pantries, I always leave cans out for that.

[MamaMolly]

I think you handled it very well, you were honest and polite and thoughtful about keeping little ears out of it.

[DrSally]

OP, I think you handled it fine. You kept the boy from hearing and were polite and honest about it. I agree w/pp's that it's totally within reason to believe that not everyone who is part of an organization stands behind all of the organization's principals, but at the same time not want to support the organization. I, personally, would've prob just said no thanks, maybe next time (next fundraiser, different organization).

[R2sweetboys]

Not everyone in BSA agrees with their principles. I know that. But I'm still not gong to financially support an organization that does have these principles. I'm not the only person that feels this way, as the replies to this thread have shown.

How else was the OP to handle this? Give money to an organization that's against what she believes because she likes the family asking for it? Yes, she could have just said "no" but that's not neighbourly and you can't really lie and say you don't like popcorn, as it would have been an obvious lie if they're ever seen eating popcorn at another time. Now she knows that cash donations stay at the pack level, she could do that next time.

I think she treated the situation as well as she could. She said no, made sure the boy didn't hear her reasons why and explained to the mother, so they know other organization would be fine. The BSA does a can drive for food pantries, I always leave cans out for that.

Why is it not neighborly to simply say "No, thank you"? Even if the OP said it's because they don't like popcorn, I highly doubt that a situation would arise where they were "caught" eating popcorn and would have to explain why. FWIW, I have bought the popcorn from a neighbor's son who is a scout. I am very liberal and do not support BSA's stand against gays and atheists.(and I know this boy's family doesn't either) I bought it to support HIM and his local troop. I certainly don't expect everyone to do the same but I would not decline with a detailed explanation either. In this case, I feel a simple "No, thank you" would have been fine.

[JoyNChrist]

I think you did great. If it were my kid, and you just declined without an explanation, I probably wouldn't ask you for other fundraisers for different organizations. This way she knows that you don't mind being asked, you just don't support the Boy Scouts.

[SkyrMommy]

I think you handled it very well, you were honest and polite and thoughtful about keeping little ears out of it.

:yeahthat: A difficult situation that you handled well.

[niccig]

In this case, I feel a simple "No, thank you" would have been fine.

This would strike me as weird if my neighbour that I know well says "No thank you" without an explanation, especially if they've supported other organizations. I would have been taken aback and probably wouldn't ask for any donations for anything else.

If I didn't know them well, I probably would have been fine. But everyone I know well gives an explanation if they can't do something you are asking for.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This would strike me as weird if my neighbour that I know well says "No thank you" without an explanation, especially if they've supported other organizations. I would have been taken aback and probably wouldn't ask for any donations for anything else.

If I didn't know them well, I probably would have been fine. But everyone I know well gives an explanation if they can't do something you are asking for.

Ds1 just sold popcorn this weekend. Several people said no thank you and it was fine. Even if we knew them well that would have been a fine answer. I'm not going to get peeved as there are likely reasons they don't want it. I think the popcorn is pretty bad and so I wouldn't feel bad saying no. It's bad and overpriced. Just saying it politely is enough, imo.

Beth

[anonomom]

Thanks, everyone, for your opinions and support. I always worry about this kind of stuff, since on my best day I tend to be a little shy and awkward.

[JustMe]

I admire the way you handled it. I don't know if I would have had as much courage--I probably would have said no thank you, but maybe if your school sells something, etc.. However, I think what you did is way better because you are really sticking behind your values...not just boycotting the popcorn, but letting people know why. Way to go:jammin:

[hellokitty]

Why is it not neighborly to simply say "No, thank you"? Even if the OP said it's because they don't like popcorn, I highly doubt that a situation would arise where they were "caught" eating popcorn and would have to explain why. FWIW, I have bought the popcorn from a neighbor's son who is a scout. I am very liberal and do not support BSA's stand against gays and atheists.(and I know this boy's family doesn't either) I bought it to support HIM and his local troop. I certainly don't expect everyone to do the same but I would not decline with a detailed explanation either. In this case, I feel a simple "No, thank you" would have been fine.

See, this is the way I see this too. I have bought popcorn before from scouts before my son became a scout, even though I do not agree with the BSA's stance on certain issues. I do support that particular scout and I'm buying it to support HIM. That's why I agreed with the pp who said that a, "No, thank you," would have been adequate, b/c I don't feel that it would be appropriate to get on my soap box and make a statement like that to a mother/son who were simply just trying to raise funds for their local pack.

[niccig]

That's why I agreed with the pp who said that a, "No, thank you," would have been adequate, b/c I don't feel that it would be appropriate to get on my soap box and make a statement like that to a mother/son who were simply just trying to raise funds for their local pack.

I don't think the OP was getting up on her soapbox. She made sure the boy couldn't hear and briefly told the mother she doesn't support BSA because of their principles. If she had lectured them, then yes that would be a soap box.

I've had a friend constantly try to get my DS into boy scouts. I've said the "No thank you", "we're not interested" and she only stopped when I told her we don't agree with BSA principles.

I don't see what's the problem with the OP or others saying that it goes against their beliefs to support BSA. There's a lot of charities I do not support because I don't agree with them. I know there's a lot of great things about the BSA, but it's not for everyone.

[Smillow]

I think the popcorn is pretty bad and so I wouldn't feel bad saying no. It's bad and overpriced.

ITA! My nephew sold popcorn last year & this year - The majority of the price went to his troop but the popcorn (cheese collection) was awful! I ordered the popping kernels this year - haven't tried them yet.

[Melanie]

I think you were honest and forthright, which is admirable. If it were me, I would have chickened out and just said my family doesn't eat the product. I wouldn't have given the truthful explanation, but that's because I am chicken! Good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

:yeahthat:

[hellokitty]

ITA! My nephew sold popcorn last year & this year - The majority of the price went to his troop but the popcorn (cheese collection) was awful! I ordered the popping kernels this year - haven't tried them yet.

Our council went with a different brand of popcorn last yr, which allowed us a larger profit margin and everyone really loved the quality of the popcorn. I think the brand is, "Campmaster." I'm thinking that those of you who think the popcorn is bad, are selling a different brand. I know my brothers were in scouts ages ago and they sold a different brand, that I typically have associated with boy scout popcorn, and I would agree that it was not a very tasty brand.

Niccig, I guess what I am saying is that it would be one of those situations where I feel it is not worth making a BFD over. There are plenty of times ppl want me to volunteer or donate to a charity that I disagree with (ie: pro-life organization, a variety of churches that I disagree with, etc.). I guess I do not feel comfortable flat out telling someone that I do not agree with their organizations beliefs, so that is why I am refusing to help or donate, it's like TMI to tell the other person. I think that if I did that, ppl would be very hurt. That's why I feel that for situations like this, a simple, "no thank you," would be perfectly appropriate. Ppl aren't going to push you on why you don't want to buy. so there is no need to elaborate. However, if I blurted out (even if it was just to the mom, not the boy) why I didn't donate to each and every organization that approached me, I think I'd come off looking like I had a huge chip on my shoulder and ppl might think I was a jerk. Trust me, I live in an area that is extremely conservative, we are black sheep here, we do not fit in for the most part. I bite my tongue a lot and don't feel it is worth it to offend someone over something that can be very personal (ie: the whole anti-gay thing to me ties in closely with religion, which is a topic I do not discuss with anyone, unless I know that they are on the same wavelength as me, since it can get very heated), esp in a small community, where everyone knows one another. FTR, I am very liberal and for organizations like the BSA, the national vs. local level can be drastically different. I understand that the BSA has made a statement and that technically our pack belongs to the BSA. However, our local pack has some of the nicest, most liberal families that I know of in our region, they do NOT reflect the beliefs of the BSA. So, what I am saying is that ppl get up in arms about the BSA, I don't like their statement either, but there is nothing in the handbook that preaches the anti-gay, anti-non-christian beliefs, our local pack is a positive influence in our community. I just think don't think it's really right to dump on another parent about this topic, when they are not the ones who represent the BSA and they may not even agree with the BSA. I know it over-simplifies the entire situation, but from our experience, ppl are not joining scouts, b/c they are anti-gay and antt-non-christians, so I don't feel that I would be comfortable just assuming that all scout families automatically subscribed to the beliefs of BSA.

[vonfirmath]

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to support an organization based on your beliefs, but I would have said 'no, thank you' and just purchased from him the next time he had a different fundraiser.

This.
Your pulling me aside like that to explicate why you didn't want to support the organization-- i would have been gracious, etc but I may not talk to you ever again more than "hi" level. The fact that I/my kid comes to your door with that organization would make me feel you were trying to cut ties with me. so i'd oblige

[sntm]

my son is in BSA (his dad was an eagle scout, so he was very gungho even though i had reservations precisely because of the discrimination.) i've sold the popcorn for him, and i would have been fine with or without an explanation. With an explanation, i would have confided that i agree with you!

for popcorn haters, they have an option to buy popcorn for military folks overseas, which i like.

[ChunkyNicksChunkyMom]

As someone who has been shlepping from door to door selling this stuff, I think you handled it just fine.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

hellokitty - just want to say that i get what you were saying and i agree with you 100%.

if it were me, i would have just said no thank you, and left it at that. If it were my kid selling candies and a neighbor said no, i wouldn't think anything of it, honestly. maybe they're short on money and trying to cut back on expenses, maybe they have several other relatives/friends selling same thing and they they already bought from them, maybe they don't eat candy, etc etc...i don't think one is obliged to provide a reason for saying no. These days with the economy so bad i think everyone understands that they can't expect all their neighbors/friends to buy whatever their kid is selling.

and actually, if it was my kid selling popcorn and i was pulled aside by a neighbor and told that they weren't donating bc they didn't agree with this or that political stance, i probably would have left feeling pretty uncomfortable and upset. I would have felt like the person was making me out to be this person who had their kid part of a bigoted organization or something, KWIM? (And i am a liberal's liberal in a very conservative area). I know that was not the OP's or other's intent, but that's what I would have felt. I would have *so* much rather preferred a simple "No thanks!".

[o_mom]

OP - if you want to support the child in his endevours but not support the national organization, just give a cash donation. Cash donations stay at the pack level and do not go to the national organization.

It depends on the pack. Ours uses any direct donations from popcorn sales for popcorn for troops. If someone wanted to donate just to the pack or even to an individual scout they could...it would just be handled differently.

[niccig]

I know it over-simplifies the entire situation, but from our experience, ppl are not joining scouts, b/c they are anti-gay and antt-non-christians, so I don't feel that I would be comfortable just assuming that all scout families automatically subscribed to the beliefs of BSA.

Around here, and I'm in CA, I know many people that won't put their kids in BSA because of these beliefs. DH just commented about it to me last week. We know the pack level is different, but we still can't have DS join. In his class at school there is one boy in BSA. There was some talk from his parents of starting a pack at DS's school, but overwhleming the parents do not want their sons to join.

I wouldn't be surprised that if over time, numbers do decline in our area because of this. Shame, as most of us do like other things about scouts, but this issue is too much for some of us to get past.

Interestingly enough, I looked up BSA last night, and other scouting assoications in other countries do not have same stance as the BSA. Canada, UK, Australia, NZ etc - none have the same membership requirements. BSA only became strict on membership since 1985. BSA says they just codified what was understood but never written down. They've lost a lot of public and private funding because of this.

[infocrazy]

and actually, if it was my kid selling popcorn and i was pulled aside by a neighbor and told that they weren't donating bc they didn't agree with this or that political stance, i probably would have left feeling pretty horrible. I would have felt like the person was making me out to be this person who had their kid part of a bigoted organization or something, KWIM? I know that was not the OP's intent, but that's what I would have felt. I would have SO much rather preferred a simple "No thanks!".

:yeahthat:

[niccig]

I understand that the BSA has made a statement and that technically our pack belongs to the BSA. However, our local pack has some of the nicest, most liberal families that I know of in our region, they do NOT reflect the beliefs of the BSA. So, what I am saying is that ppl get up in arms about the BSA, I don't like their statement either, but there is nothing in the handbook that preaches the anti-gay, anti-non-christian beliefs, our local pack is a positive influence in our community.

I know all about working from w/i to change the BSA, I've heard that mentioned here a lot when the topic comes up. I know that not everyone involved in scouting agrees with them. I can't compartmentalize the local pack from the national stance. For me, it would by hypocritical, so I won't have DS join, and I won't buy any popcorn - I've never got a personal request probably becuase only know 2 scouts, and both those familes tried to get us to join, and had to tell them why we wouldn't so they would stop asking us. (As an aside, why won't something people listen when you say No and keep pestering you about something you do not want to do!) Maye I did offend them when I gave my reasons. I wasn't judging them for putting their boys in scouts, it is their decision to make. I'm not judging you when I won't buy the popcorn, I'm just standing by my principals.

The OP felt she needed to explain why she turned down a request she normally would have accepted. I agree with her and would do the same. If I didn't know the family I wouldn't have explained. If the friends with boys in scouts do ask us to buy popcorn, I probably will say why I won't, because I support other things with their kids and it would be unusual for me to refuse a request.

[mom2one]

if it were me, i would have just said no thank you, and left it at that. If it were my kid selling candies and a neighbor said no, i wouldn't think anything of it, honestly. maybe they're short on money and trying to cut back on expenses, maybe they have several other relatives/friends selling same thing and they they already bought from them, maybe they don't eat candy, etc etc...i don't think one is obliged to provide a reason for saying no. These days with the economy so bad i think everyone understands that they can't expect all their neighbors/friends to buy whatever their kid is selling.

and actually, if it was my kid selling popcorn and i was pulled aside by a neighbor and told that they weren't donating bc they didn't agree with this or that political stance, i probably would have left feeling pretty uncomfortable and upset. I would have felt like the person was making me out to be this person who had their kid part of a bigoted organization or something, KWIM? (And i am a liberal's liberal in a very conservative area). I know that was not the OP's or other's intent, but that's what I would have felt. I would have *so* much rather preferred a simple "No thanks!".

:yeahthat: You said that very well and that is exactly how I feel.

[Aishe]

Frankly I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a liberal and put their kid in BSA. It's a bigoted organization, plain and simple. What if it was a racial minority being excluded? Replace gays with African-Americans or Latinos or Asians. I imagine the attitude would be very different if that were the case.

If you feel strongly about something - if you feel something is truly unjust - then I think it's appropriate to speak up. And I think the OP handled it perfectly. She didn't say anything in front of the boy and make him feel as if he'd done something wrong. If you're going to fundraise for BSA then I think you should be prepared for the occasional comment. Hopefully those comments are civil and constructive, but still, you're opening yourself up to them.

[wellyes]

I guess it's kind of like - if someone was collecting for Catholic charities, and the person being asked to donate said that they refused because of the church's stance on birth control. Most American Catholics disagree with the church's formal stance. And would be a bit taken aback by what would feel like an accusation. At the same time, the Catholic church's position on contraception really IS troublesome to many (for example: discouraging condom use in countries with high HIV rates). As thinking adults, it should not forbidden to talk about issues such as these. If you are collecting for an organization, you are openly asking for support. A simple "no thanks" is easier and more polite, but is not always the right answer, depending on how passionate you are about a particular topic.


Interesting topic.

[catsnkid]

I might have given a donation that would go directly to the troup for their activies, but not to the organization.

[hellokitty]

Frankly I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a liberal and put their kid in BSA. It's a bigoted organization, plain and simple. What if it was a racial minority being excluded? Replace gays with African-Americans or Latinos or Asians. I imagine the attitude would be very different if that were the case.

If you feel strongly about something - if you feel something is truly unjust - then I think it's appropriate to speak up. And I think the OP handled it perfectly. She didn't say anything in front of the boy and make him feel as if he'd done something wrong. If you're going to fundraise for BSA then I think you should be prepared for the occasional comment. Hopefully those comments are civil and constructive, but still, you're opening yourself up to them.

That's right. I'm a hypocrite. We live in the boonies, we don't live in CA, where there are lot of liberal ppl and plenty of other opportunities to join a variety of groups. Boy scouts is it. 4H lost it's funding, or we can do awana, but we're not christian so I would feel even weirder joining a group like that. Those are the choices where I live. I can start a group of my own, but I've already had to start other groups on my own, why the hell am I always havin to stick my neck out to start new groups and be in charge? I'm not saying I'm not prepared for a comment, but the OP wanted opinions. Well, this was mine (and apparently, several others agree) POV of the situation coming from the other side. The OP ASSumed that the mother of the boy must be anti-gay, anti-non-christian, by telling her that she does not support BSA, b/c of that. If someone said that to me when I was trying to selling popcorn with my son, I would tell them I agree with them that that the BSA's stance sucks, but then at the same time I would wonder why they so desperately felt the need to unload their judgment on me. I would probably never talk to that person again, b/c they would appear to me to be not very friendly to me. I understand feeling passionate about something, but I also feel that there is a right time and a wrong time to pick your battles. IMO the OP picked a battle that didn't need to be picked and probably did not give the best impression to the other mom by judging her to her face.

OK, I'm leaving this thread, b/c I'm getting too emotional about it. I can't believe I'm even getting emotional over this, since I disagree with the BSA, but I feel like ppl here think that all boy scouts and their families must be bigots or something, which is far from our experience, but if that's what you believe, that's fine.

[niccig]

The OP ASSumed that the mother of the boy must be anti-gay, anti-non-christian, by telling her that she does not support BSA, b/c of that.

OK, I'm leaving this thread, b/c I'm getting too emotional about it. I can't believe I'm even getting emotional over this, since I disagree with the BSA, but I feel like ppl here think that all boy scouts and their families must be bigots or something, which is far from our experience, but if that's what you believe, that's fine.

HelloKitty...the OP doesn't assume the mother is anti-gay, anti-non-Christian. I take it as she was trying to explain to a friend why she can't support something the friend probably assumed she would support. The OP felt awkward in saying No and felt she needed to explain why.

My friend whose son is a scout is not anti-gay at all. When I said no to her repeated requests to join, I wasn't judging her decision to join...I was just trying to explain why it wouldn't work for my family.

Just because I'm doing something different, doesn't' mean what you're doing is wrong. I dont' have 4H or other scouting options, but we do have other thngs we can do with our son, so that's what we've choosen.

[Aishe]

That's right. I'm a hypocrite. We live in the boonies, we don't live in CA, where there are lot of liberal ppl and plenty of other opportunities to join a variety of groups. Boy scouts is it. 4H lost it's funding, or we can do awana, but we're not christian so I would feel even weirder joining a group like that. Those are the choices where I live. I can start a group of my own, but I've already had to start other groups on my own, why the hell am I always havin to stick my neck out to start new groups and be in charge? I'm not saying I'm not prepared for a comment, but the OP wanted opinions. Well, this was mine (and apparently, several others agree) POV of the situation coming from the other side. The OP ASSumed that the mother of the boy must be anti-gay, anti-non-christian, by telling her that she does not support BSA, b/c of that. If someone said that to me when I was trying to selling popcorn with my son, I would tell them I agree with them that that the BSA's stance sucks, but then at the same time I would wonder why they so desperately felt the need to unload their judgment on me. I would probably never talk to that person again, b/c they would appear to me to be not very friendly to me. I understand feeling passionate about something, but I also feel that there is a right time and a wrong time to pick your battles. IMO the OP picked a battle that didn't need to be picked and probably did not give the best impression to the other mom by judging her to her face.

OK, I'm leaving this thread, b/c I'm getting too emotional about it. I can't believe I'm even getting emotional over this, since I disagree with the BSA, but I feel like ppl here think that all boy scouts and their families must be bigots or something, which is far from our experience, but if that's what you believe, that's fine.

I don't think all boy scouts and their families are bigots. But the fact is that BSA has an OFFICIAL policy that is flat out discriminatory. Look, you have to do what's best for your children and family. I get that. But I, personally, find BSA's anti-gay policy to be utterly reprehensible and there's no way I could support it in any way. And yes, I feel passionately enough about it that I would say something. Not because I assume that every BSA family is anti-gay (and I don't think the OP was assuming that either), but because I think it's an important enough issue that it merits a comment and a dialogue.

FWIW, my DH disagrees with me and thinks we should let DS join BSA if he wants. He thinks the positives of joining will outweigh the negatives. We will duke it out when the time comes, I guess, but my point is that I get where you're coming from. And this thread makes me emotional too, because it makes me so sad to realize what a long road gays still have in front of them.

[Melaine]

There are tons of organizations and/or charities asking for money or support and I pretty much say "yes" if I want to give/buy or "no" if I don't. I don't think it's necessary to give any explanation, personally. It's safe to assume they know and either agree with or have come to terms with the fundamental beliefs of the group they are supporting. It's kind of condescending to explain it to them as if they aren't aware. JMO.

[rlu]

It depends on the pack. Ours uses any direct donations from popcorn sales for popcorn for troops. If someone wanted to donate just to the pack or even to an individual scout they could...it would just be handled differently.

There is an area on the order form for popcorn for the troops and if someone wants to do that, great. If someone gives cash for the pack or scout, it doesn't go on the form, it goes in a separate envelope. Sounds like we're saying the same thing, just semantics.

I see the hypocrite word has come up again (it always does on the scout threads). I think we're all hypocrites in some way - perhaps we join BSA although disagreeing with their stance, perhaps we belong to a church we don't completely agree with, perhaps we support military vet groups even though they served under DADT, perhaps we support the troops although we disagree with the government's decision to go to war, perhaps we vote for a candidate although we don't agree with their every stance, I could go on.

[crayonblue]

There is an area on the order form for popcorn for the troops and if someone wants to do that, great. If someone gives cash for the pack or scout, it doesn't go on the form, it goes in a separate envelope. Sounds like we're saying the same thing, just semantics.

I see the hypocrite word has come up again (it always does on the scout threads). I think we're all hypocrites in some way - perhaps we join BSA although disagreeing with their stance, perhaps we belong to a church we don't completely agree with, perhaps we support military vet groups even though they served under DADT, perhaps we support the troops although we disagree with the government's decision to go to war, perhaps we vote for a candidate although we don't agree with their every stance, I could go on.

I think this is a very good point.

I know I am hypocritical in certain areas and I'm fine with that (i.e. buying American Girl dolls because it makes my daughter super happy on Christmas morning even though they support Planned Parenthood and I am hugely pro-life). The problem becomes when I start pointing out other people's hypocrisy rather than looking at my own.

In instances like this, I think it helps to consider the impact that can be made. Is it going to make a bigger impact to support a boy scout who is selling popcorn or not to buy the popcorn because you don't want to support the organization? I suppose you have to consider each situation.

[wellyes]

There has to be a line somewhere, though. If a club that explicitly refused to allow black people in leadership roles came selling cookies, most of us wouldn't use that as an opportunity to reflect on our own hypocrisies. (I'm thinking of Mormons who had the rule until about 25 years ago).

[mommylamb]

I I'm not judging you when I won't buy the popcorn, I'm just standing by my principals.

The OP felt she needed to explain why she turned down a request she normally would have accepted. I agree with her and would do the same. If I didn't know the family I wouldn't have explained. If the friends with boys in scouts do ask us to buy popcorn, I probably will say why I won't, because I support other things with their kids and it would be unusual for me to refuse a request.


HelloKitty...the OP doesn't assume the mother is anti-gay, anti-non-Christian. I take it as she was trying to explain to a friend why she can't support something the friend probably assumed she would support. The OP felt awkward in saying No and felt she needed to explain why.


Just wanted to say that I really agre with niccig in both of these instances. To me it's almost analogous to having a neighbor ask me if I wanted to join a country club that doesn't allow Jews or African Americans. If I said no, and nothing else, maybe they would think it was because I didn't like golf. I think it's fine to say why.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a similar experience a couple weeks ago and just told the mother that I don't donate to boy scouts as an organization. I didn't say specifically why, but I wanted her to know that it wasn't about them, and it wasn't about not wanting to donate to things.

I think it's a leap to assume that the OP was saying she thought badly of her neighbor. This issue is more salient for some people than it is for others, and that's ok. I don't think someone is a hypocrite if they support gay rights and still allow their child to join BSA, but that doesn't mean I need to donate to the organization or pretend that my reason for not donate is something else.

[JustMe]

Just wanted to say that I really agre with niccig in both of these instances. To me it's almost analogous to having a neighbor ask me if I wanted to join a country club that doesn't allow Jews or African Americans. If I said no, and nothing else, maybe they would think it was because I didn't like golf. I think it's fine to say why.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a similar experience a couple weeks ago and just told the mother that I don't donate to boy scouts as an organization. I didn't say specifically why, but I wanted her to know that it wasn't about them, and it wasn't about not wanting to donate to things.

I think it's a leap to assume that the OP was saying she thought badly of her neighbor. This issue is more salient for some people than it is for others, and that's ok. I don't think someone is a hypocrite if they support gay rights and still allow their child to join BSA, but that doesn't mean I need to donate to the organization or pretend that my reason for not donate is something else.

Very well said. This is what I wanted to say, but couldn't figure out how. This also reminds me of the quote of what can happen (bad) when people stay silent.

[o_mom]

There is an area on the order form for popcorn for the troops and if someone wants to do that, great. If someone gives cash for the pack or scout, it doesn't go on the form, it goes in a separate envelope. Sounds like we're saying the same thing, just semantics.



In our pack, all donations collected while selling popcorn are pooled and used for military popcorn. There is no separate collection envelope. Unless someone was to specifically say they wanted the full amount to go to the local pack, it would be used for popcorn. I just wanted to point out that this will vary, so if someone wants to make a donation that stays at the local level, they may need to specify that.

[rlu]

In our pack, all donations collected while selling popcorn are pooled and used for military popcorn. There is no separate collection envelope. Unless someone was to specifically say they wanted the full amount to go to the local pack, it would be used for popcorn. I just wanted to point out that this will vary, so if someone wants to make a donation that stays at the local level, they may need to specify that.

Got it, thanks for the clarification.