UPDATE in OP preschool adjustment - more questions about "socialization"

[lmh2402]

UPDATE
i emailed the teacher and told her briefly what i was worried about, and asked if we could find a time to talk. she emailed me back her home number and we just had a good little chat

she said i have to remind myself that even though DS is a head taller than every other kid in the class and seems older because of his emerging reading and math skills, that he's still the youngest. she said "he's a little tiny boy just starting to make his way in the world and he's doing so great." :heartbeat:

she said, "listen, you're the one who told us he's got some sensory issues. those issue are clearly present and he's doing his best in this new situation and setting. he hasn't cried once all week and that is so awesome and we (the teachers) all gave him huge hugs today just for trying so hard and clearly doing things that are way out of his comfort zone. no, he doesn't like to sit on the floor. something about the rug seems to bother him. or maybe it's the proximity to the other kids, but regardless, he said he wanted to sit on a chair and i thought that was great that he came up with an alternative that he felt good about. he needs a little more coaxing on most things than the other kids, but he's doing fine. yes, it seems like he might have some social issues, but really...what can you do at this point anyway? i'll keep you posted, but he's far too young for social skills groups and you should just be so happy and proud of how great he's doing. if he were here and crying all the time, and finding no joy in anything we did, i would tell you. but i assure you, he's watching what the other kids are doing. he's starting to test the waters of how to join, or if he wants to join. it's just going to take him a bit."

anyway, i feel much better. she's so nice and so nurturing. DS really does like her a lot - this week he's been so excited to get into school and tell her about what he did or saw that morning before school started.

so fingers crossed that he continues to warm up, but i'll keep my eye on it and told her i wanted to stay in touch about it.

thanks for all the feedback! you guys are the best :22:

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i had posted last week about a seeming escalation in DS' angst over separating for school

wouldn't you know that the day after i posted, he walked into school without a single tear, kissed me goodbye and went off to find some puzzles.

i was so relieved! and since then, he's separated easily and pleasantly each day. so that's all good.

but, i'm still a little concerned about his adjustment.

my mom and our sitter have more face time at the school than me, so i can't speak from first hand-knowledge, but when i asked them about what they observe during pick-up, each time i hear reports of him off by himself and all the other kids doing something else.

for example, on tues all the kids were sitting on the rug in a circle singing a song. DS was sitting on a chair on the side of the room. my mom actually thought maybe he had been removed from the circle for some reason. when she asked the teacher she said, "oh no, (DS) just doesn't seem to like to sit in the circle and didn't want to sing the songs or anything."

today, the sitter said when she got there most of the kids were playing together with some big boat thing and DS was off by himself in a corner coloring.

we had a follow-up with our developmental pedi right before schools started and she said she though he was totally ready for a school setting cognitively-speaking, but that she was most interested to see how he did socially.

i realize it's still early - only three weeks in. but i've always observed DS to not be big into group settings of kids. he is great with adults, but standoffish with other kids. i thought it was normal, since parallel seemed age-appropriate.

but if all the other kids are playing together, i'm wondering if DS is maybe lagging in this area. if this is something to be concerned about? if there is anything i can or should be doing about it?

when i ask him about school, he seems happy and answers with positive answers. "is school fun?" "yes."

"do you like the kids?" "yes"

"did you make any friends or meet anyone you really like?" "yes." but when i ask names, he tells me the names of his teachers.

we ran into a little girl in his class earlier this week. and she came right up and said, "hi, (DS)!!" and he looked at her like he had no idea who she was. i prompted him to say hello and reminded him that she was in his class and he just mumbled hi and sort of slunk away.

i will say that he's the youngest in his class. there are several kids who already turned/are turning three before the end of the year.

any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks.

[sste]

2.5-2.75 is YOUNG for peer socializing. My son was mostly playing on his own at that point or attempting to monopolize teacher attention! I guess my concern wouldn't be that he isn't playing with other kids or saying hi but if it is the case over time that he isn't socializing, interacting, bonding to ANYONE in the room, including the teachers. Most kids will develop a relationship with at least one of the staff.

I also wonder why they let him sit on his own during circle time - - the programs I have been at would have had one of the teachers sit next to him in the circle or put him on her lap. In our toddler program, kids wandered off mid-way through circle and often no one intervened I think on the theory that they had reached the end of their attention limits . . .but everyone started the circle together.

[wellyes]

I think it's still early for him to be comfortable with the group. I woudn't worry too much about that.

But I also don't get why the teacher let him decide to not be involved in circle time.... I can see circumstances where a teacher would let that happen -- like if it was a big stressor to him and she was gradually working him up to sitting with them for longer and longer periods. But she sounds so casual, like it's up to him whether or not he will be part of it. It might be hard for him to integrate without direction and support from her.

6 weeks into school, my 3.5 year old is usually pretty vague about what she does at school. Doesn't remember unless prompted and even then can't always tell me what snack they had or what was brought for show and tell. And she doesn't talk about her classmates by name, ever. So that sounds normal to me, especially for a younger child.

[jren]

I would say his behavior seems normal for his age. Playing together is more of a 3-year old skill, though some kids do it earlier. Plus, with a new school/environment, the toys may just be more interesting to him right now. My DS is in a class with only 6 kids, all boys. He is the youngest (turns 3 end of this month), and some are almost 4. The teacher had to put a special reward system in place to get them to sit in circle time - my DS was actually the only one who would sit. So not sitting in circle time, for a boy, is apparently not unusual.

Also, maybe he is tired at the end of the day. Maybe you just hit a time where he wants to play alone, but he plays with them other times throughout the day. The little girl knew and liked him, so he must be interacting in some way. I wouldn't be worried about him not knowing names yet, either. Or that he's more focused on the teacher than the kids - especially if this is his first experience away from you.

[kedss]

I think at his age, its perfectly fine for him to be doing his thing, and I'm glad that his teacher allows him to sit where he wants to during that time. It is only 3 weeks into school, my daughter who is usually a very social person took a long time to start 'playing' with other kids in her class, she preferred doing her own thing as did many of her peers.

[lmh2402]

thanks, everyone

i feel much better. i think i will just ask the teacher about circle time and how she approaches it if a kid does not want to participate next time i see her.

[twowhat?]

Totally normal. Ours at that age would name the other kids in their class, but when asked "who are your friends" they'd name their teachers. And when further prompted "who are you FAVORITE friends?" they'd say "Mommy, and Daddy, and Sister!" :) At that age I just don't really think they form "friendship" types of bonds with other children. They do, however, develop bonds with adults (the teachers).

[wendmatt]

Very normal and wonderful that the teacher is not forcing him to do anything he does not want to. My DD was painfully shy and did not interract with the kids at preschool very much at all. I was very worried about her but she's in 3rd grade now, thriving and has lots of friends. I'm taking early ed classes right now and it sounds totally developmentally normal. Oh how we worry about our little ones :)

[SnuggleBuggles]

Parallel play is the norm till 3-3.5yo! Girls tend to get there sooner but boys can easily be on the later side. Ds2 still does some parallel or solo play and he is nearing 4yo.

Beth

[maestramommy]

LOL, your DS sounds almost like my Dora. When she started a 3s class she was actually only one month from turning 4. So older than your DS. However during the fall conference her teacher mentioned that Dora didn't like to play with other kids, and she felt she needed some play time with kids that were not her little sister. We did manage a couple of playdates with a classmate who was very close in age, also late fall bday.

During spring conference the teacher said even though now Dora was great with her and the assistant, she still didn't like playing with other kids. She had a hard time sharing, though she was getting better, and she wanted full control over her play scenario. She highly recommended that I have Dora evaluated because she might have some high functioning autism. Well, I didn't know any better, and I had just had her evaluated one year before, but I freaked out. I went back to the district, and they had me fill out a questionnaire, and also sent a teacher from their school who works with a lot of spectrum kids to observe her.

The upshot of all this was that they found Dora to be perfectly normal, a little quirky, but eh, who isn't. During the observation the teacher saw Dora was playing by herself, and said, "Dora! Why don't you go ask those girls to play?" And wonder of all wonders, she did. She even mentioned it after school to me, which she never does. Usually (even now) I have to ask her if she played with any "friends" at school, and who. The district team's assessment was that maybe the teachers (who've had 17 years experience) just didn't know how to get Dora to initiate play with others. Which was probably true because when I asked the teacher during conference if she'd ever seen a kid like Dora, she said, "no in 17 years I've only seen one kid who was even more extreme but he WAS autistic and so had multiple issues." I don't know if the demographic at this school was more homogeneous than others, but I ended up putting Dora in the district preschool with Arwyn the following year. which turned out to be the best placement for her because she did have some social issues and the teachers were able to help her a lot with that.

Sorry, this is very long, but I wanted to let you know that after this experience and our followup meeting to Dora's eval, I understood that there are too many kids who are "normal" that are being seen as not normal, just because they are quieter than most, or prefer solitary pursuits, or just a little quirky. Or just don't otherwise fit the idea of what is a normally developing social kid. And *sometimes* people will rush to think something's wrong when in fact nothing is. Maybe they just need a little help making friends, when they're ready.

[Gena]

Well, I'll be the voice of dissent and say that I would find this concerning, especially given your DS's past developmental issues.

Your son is very young and at this age it can be very difficult to tell whether a child's behavior is within the range "normal", if a child a child may be a late bloomer, or if it is a sign of something more serious.

As you know, my son has ASD, so I do have a bias towards being overly cautious about this kind of behavior.



for example, on tues all the kids were sitting on the rug in a circle singing a song. DS was sitting on a chair on the side of the room. my mom actually thought maybe he had been removed from the circle for some reason. when she asked the teacher she said, "oh no, (DS) just doesn't seem to like to sit in the circle and didn't want to sing the songs or anything."

today, the sitter said when she got there most of the kids were playing together with some big boat thing and DS was off by himself in a corner coloring.

Was he interested in what the other kids were doing? Did he watch them? Or was he complete unconcerned? Did he feel sad or excluded? Was he relieved about not being in the group? Or was he just content to be by himself? If an adult facilitates, will he join in? What happens when the adult steps back?

At that age (and for several years after that) my son was completely uninterested in what other kids were doing. He would join in play with another child if an adult lead him, but if the adult stepped away, DS would loose interest.


we had a follow-up with our developmental pedi right before schools started and she said she though he was totally ready for a school setting cognitively-speaking, but that she was most interested to see how he did socially.

It's just really hard age to see where they are at socially. Do you have another appointment sceduled with the DP?


but i've always observed DS to not be big into group settings of kids. he is great with adults, but standoffish with other kids. i thought it was normal, since parallel seemed age-appropriate.

Parallel play is the norm at that age. Collaborative play doesn't usually start until sometime between ages 3 and 4. But 2.5-3 is around the time when other children become more interesting than adults. So even doing parallel play, kids usually start to watch each other and iminiate each other.


when i ask him about school, he seems happy and answers with positive answers. "is school fun?" "yes."

"do you like the kids?" "yes"

"did you make any friends or meet anyone you really like?" "yes." but when i ask names, he tells me the names of his teachers.

we ran into a little girl in his class earlier this week. and she came right up and said, "hi, (DS)!!" and he looked at her like he had no idea who she was. i prompted him to say hello and reminded him that she was in his class and he just mumbled hi and sort of slunk away.


My DS has always loved school and says that he likes all the kids. But when I ask who his friends are names his aides and then recites the complete class list of first and last names. (He calls all the kids by their full names all the time.)

DS can never recognize people (kids or adults) outside of their usual environments. So if we run into a classmate or a therapist at the store, DS will have no idea who they are. However for him, this is probably a combination of his ASD and his vision impairment.

Everything you descibe could totally be due to his age combined with his innate personality. Or it may be early signs of something else. I would definately keep on eye on this situation, get frequent updates from the teachers, and discuss with the DP if it persists.

[zag95]

My DD will be 4 at the end of January. She does sometimes play with other kids, but frequently when I observe her on the playground, she is playing on her own. She will roam around the playground area and pick "flowers" (weeds) etc. She does have some little friends that we have playdates with. Maybe you should try something like that- and have a neutral setting, such as a park.

I think that at the age your DS was, DD didn't really "play" with other kids- that has totally been something she has come into as a 3 yr old.

[brittone2]

Well, I'll be the voice of dissent and say that I would find this concerning, especially given your DS's past developmental issues.

Your son is very young and at this age it can be very difficult to tell whether a child's behavior is within the range "normal", if a child a child may be a late bloomer, or if it is a sign of something more serious.

As you know, my son has ASD, so I do have a bias towards being overly cautious about this kind of behavior.



Was he interested in what the other kids were doing? Did he watch them? Or was he complete unconcerned? Did he feel sad or excluded? Was he relieved about not being in the group? Or was he just content to be by himself? If an adult facilitates, will he join in? What happens when the adult steps back?

At that age (and for several years after that) my son was completely uninterested in what other kids were doing. He would join in play with another child if an adult lead him, but if the adult stepped away, DS would loose interest.



It's just really hard age to see where they are at socially. Do you have another appointment sceduled with the DP?



Parallel play is the norm at that age. Collaborative play doesn't usually start until sometime between ages 3 and 4. But 2.5-3 is around the time when other children become more interesting than adults. So even doing parallel play, kids usually start to watch each other and iminiate each other.




My DS has always loved school and says that he likes all the kids. But when I ask who his friends are names his aides and then recites the complete class list of first and last names. (He calls all the kids by their full names all the time.)

DS can never recognize people (kids or adults) outside of their usual environments. So if we run into a classmate or a therapist at the store, DS will have no idea who they are. However for him, this is probably a combination of his ASD and his vision impairment.

Everything you descibe could totally be due to his age combined with his innate personality. Or it may be early signs of something else. I would definately keep on eye on this situation, get frequent updates from the teachers, and discuss with the DP is it persists.
ITA w/ Gena. My thoughts exactly.

I think this can be very much in the realm of typical development, given he's just starting school and is one of the youngest in his class. That said, given the history of concerns, I would watch very, very closely. I might also at some point ask his therapist(s) to observe if possible once he's had a period of time to adjust. It would also be worth discussing with the dev. ped if this extends beyond a few weeks (past the initial adjustment period). eta: and keeping communication w/ the teacher open, as Gena suggested.

[JoyNChrist]

My Avery (4.5) just doesn't really like other kids all that much. He seeks out adult company, and loves to play with adults and has very grown up conversations. And he has a very active imagination and plays well on his own. He also likes older kids - he plays well with his 9yo cousin, but not so much his 2yo cousin. He also LOVES to play with our neighbor's 6yo son, but doesn't really enjoy playdates with his classmates from preschool or with my friends' toddlers and preschoolers. He loves babies though.

I think he's just kind of a mature soul. I remember being a lot like that when I was growing up. So I don't worry too much about it right now.

I would give your DS a little more time, and maybe ask the teacher to try to put a little more pressure on him to socialize (gently, of course).

[kedss]

my nephew Avery is similar, he's 6, and would prefer playing/socializing with older kids or adults, and he's very much an independent dude, but very curious and wants to know about everything. :)

[lmh2402]

thanks, everyone

it was on my radar b/c the DP called it out to me.

and/plus, i myself have always noticed he wasn't all that into other kids

we do have playdates fairly regularly with the same small group - three little girls. (he is the youngest in this group too)

when all the girls can make it, so there are four of them, DS doesn't really participate

but if there is only one or maybe two of the girls, he's more apt to engage

he doesn't seem totally disinterested, but he's not overly interested either. it almost seems like it's overwhelming for him. these girls run and shriek and chase each other...which is what i picture little kids doing. but that does not seem to be in DS' wheelhouse at all. when we go to the park, with our without friends, he seems petrified of the packs of kids that are loud and running through the equipment. but he will, at times, clearly engage if there is another little kid doing something he's doing. like last weekend, he was going down a slide that had another slide right next to it. another little boy started doing the same loop - going up the ladder, sliding down, doing it again...and DS picked up on the fact that they were in a pattern and they started waiting for each other to be ready to slide at the same time. though he never said one word to this kid, and we had never seen him before.

i really can't speak for what it's like at school since we only observe a few min at drop off and pick up

maybe i'll ask the teacher if she had time to speak with me in the next week or so

[mmommy]

My DD is just 2 months younger than your son. Just in the past 3-4 months her teachers have been telling us how much more she's interacting with the other kids, etc. And I hear that it is not unusual for girls to reach this point a bit earlier than boys. So, based on that completely unscientific information, I'd say you probably have nothing to worry about.:)

[inmypjs]

I agree with what people have said so far - it could just be his temperament, or it could be a sign of something else. I would keep watching. He may get more comfortable in a few weeks and want to be with the group more. As hard as it is, try not to be too anxious about it and just enjoy your son for who he is. You are aware of the situation and this behavior persists and becomes more concerning, you can pursue it from there. Also I think it is super that the school is not pressuring him.

[lmh2402]

update in OP

[karstmama]

your teacher sounds *awesome*! and yay for your ds!

[brittone2]

It sounds like things are off to a good start!

[maestramommy]

thanks, everyone

it was on my radar b/c the DP called it out to me.

and/plus, i myself have always noticed he wasn't all that into other kids

we do have playdates fairly regularly with the same small group - three little girls. (he is the youngest in this group too)

when all the girls can make it, so there are four of them, DS doesn't really participate

but if there is only one or maybe two of the girls, he's more apt to engage

he doesn't seem totally disinterested, but he's not overly interested either. it almost seems like it's overwhelming for him. these girls run and shriek and chase each other...which is what i picture little kids doing. but that does not seem to be in DS' wheelhouse at all. when we go to the park, with our without friends, he seems petrified of the packs of kids that are loud and running through the equipment. but he will, at times, clearly engage if there is another little kid doing something he's doing. like last weekend, he was going down a slide that had another slide right next to it. another little boy started doing the same loop - going up the ladder, sliding down, doing it again...and DS picked up on the fact that they were in a pattern and they started waiting for each other to be ready to slide at the same time. though he never said one word to this kid, and we had never seen him before.

i really can't speak for what it's like at school since we only observe a few min at drop off and pick up

maybe i'll ask the teacher if she had time to speak with me in the next week or so

Just read your update. To add to my experience, I even talked to my ped, and one of the questions he asked me was, did Dora play with other kids at all in another context. And she did. She loved and still loves playing with her older cousins, who are now 11 and 14. To which the ped said well if she does actually play with other kids I would not be concerned. It would be more concerning if she didn't want to play with anyone ever. Also, when the teacher from the district preschool visited Dora's class, one thing she noted was that it was very noisy because the kids were a rambunctious group. That used to be the kind of scenario Dora would avoid like the plague. Not that she would get freaked out. But she just wouldn't be interested with all that noise. She'd be much happier playing in a corner by herself. And after school she'd go up to her room and just veg for a little while. It's not as extreme anymore. She's plenty noisy herself these days:p But I think she still finds school very tiring and STILL needs a nap a couple of times a week.

[nfowife]

Sounds like you have a wonderful teacher!

[JBaxter]

Sounds like you have a wonderful teacher!

Agreed! Sounds like you found a nice place for him to be and they are letting him adjust on HIS terms.

[larig]

your teacher sounds wonderful. Congrats on the good talk.

[JustMe]

Sounds like you've got a great teacher there:applause:!

[kedss]

awesome response from his teacher! :) YAY for DS and for you! :)

[daisymommy]

Oh wow! That's a great update! She sounds like a warm, wonderful, wise teacher. I'm so glad for you that there are some positives coming out of this!