Discipline books/methods...

[newg]

If you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it!!

My friend is really struggling with her 3.5yr old DS. I know some of it is the age......DD1 is a month older than him, so she has her fair share of tantrums.....but his tantrums/discipline (or lack of) seems worse.

My friend admits she doesn't know what to do with him and she doesn't want to follow in the footsteps of her mother (who was not kind).
He's a perfect angel at school :), but not at home!
I asked her if it was just with her, but she said he behaves poorly with her DH as well.

Today she told me that over the weekend she thought he actually mocked her when she was trying to discpline him! Can 3yr. olds even do that yet??


So any books, discipline methods, seminars/workshops ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!
Thank You!!

[lowrioh]

I'm reading "The Kazdin Method for Parenting the Defiant Child" which I find to be very helpful for dealing with DD1. I also found "The Pocket Parent" to be useful because it gave some concrete examples of how to react to a given situation. It is not specifically geared towards parenting a spirited child so a lot of the premisses (i.e. all children want to please you) just make
me laugh.
My favorite parenting book is the classic "Between parent and child" by Ginnot. If nothing else, it gave me insight on how I wanted to interact with my children.

[DietCokeLover]

1 2 3 Magic

[hillview]

Today she told me that over the weekend she thought he actually mocked her when she was trying to discpline him!
Um yes ... well not mock but SOUND like they are mocking :) DS2 sounds rather like this ....

So I'd suggest "Your 3 year old" as a baseline for your friend to get a sense of what is going on with typical 3 year olds. I would also suggest "Happiest Toddler on the Block" ... 3 is hard because it isn't "Love and Logic" yet although that is a good book but isn't a baby where redirection is basically the primary tool. I'd focus on
- picking your battles (what is NOT ok and what can you not fight over) so don't make everything a battle
- give choices -- do you want x or y? vs 10 things
- stick to your guns

OOOH and get off your butt parenting is what it is all about
http://goybparenting.com/

[brittone2]

I like Ames and Ilig (Your Three Year Old and that whole series) not for discipline advice but for a snapshot of typical behavior. It is helpful to me in realizing my kids' challenges are usually very much age appropriate. That doesn't mean I don't address them, but it helps to know it is almost always an issue of maturity, etc.

Playful Parenting works very well IME (Cohen). Great resource and useful for years. It takes a mental shift to parent playfully. I've found using playful methods often diffuses an escalating battle of the wills and works to gain their cooperation.

I don't consider myself a conservative Christian but the Gentle Christian Mothers gentle discipline board has been one of the resources I've found most useful through the years. Practical advice. It focuses on a non punitive, non permissive, authoritative but not authoritarian approach. Lots of good info on typical challenges at various ages, with lots of creative ways to work through them. I like that it also addresses things like looking at whether the kid is tired, hungry, thirsty, bored, etc. when their behavior deteriorates. I think that advice is often missing in many resources. If you don't meet those basic needs, the behavior tends to just keep escalating. Toddlers and preschoolers (and even school aged kids) often aren't going to say that they are tired, hungry, bored, whatever, but you certainly see it in the behavior. I think it helps to make sure you are keeping an eye on those things. I know my DD's behavior is totally different when her blood sugar dips. A snack is a quicker fix for her than getting sucked into drama resulting from her being hungry. You can waste a lot of time battling a kid suffering from one of the above, or you can address the root cause and have things improve within a shorter period of time.

Kurcinka has good books. Raising Your Spirited Child and Kids, Parents and Power Struggles (I like the 2nd one more personally).

Positive Discipline from Jane Nelsen is good. I like stuff from Barbara Coloroso. She has a podcast here if your friend wants a small taste of what her POV is: http://vickyandjen.com/podcast_148.html

An oldie but goodie IMO is Parent Effectiveness Training by Gordon (and the followup, P.E.T. in Action)

If she's not opposed to a Christian website (not typically my thing, but I've really found it to be a fantastic resource) GCM really uses a lot of the techniques and ideas from the books above.

eta: ITA on GOYB website. I mentioned it in the other discipline thread up today but forgot it on this one.

[brittone2]

nak
wanted to come back to say that it isn't uncommon for kids that age and even school aged kids to hold it together fine all day in preschool, school, etc. and then fall apart for mom and dad. It doesn't mean she is the problem. Kids can often hold it together in the other setting, and then the feelings and behavior comes out at home where they feel safe and like they can finally let down their guard.

If he seems more intense, she should read something like Your Spirited Child by Kurcinka. Sometimes that intensity is in the range of normal, and sometimes it is a clue something more is going on (sensory processing issues would be one of many examples).

[newg]

Thanks ladies! I will copy/pasting your examples to her!!

I think she is trying 123 Magic right now.....and she was saying "that's one J" and his response to her was, "that's two mommy".

[luckytwenty]

I used Happiest Baby and Happiest Toddler on the block while I had babies/toddlers. The whole principle of "communicating at the level your child is at" has helped me in general. I try to empathize even when I criticize. "I know you really want to run all over the place and it's SO fun to throw balls. But you can't do it in the house. You can do it...."

I didn't have a very long tantrum season at all and I attribute that to the book.

[Katigre]

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/index.php They have an entire Gentle Discipline forum with links/books/situational advice. If you're a registered member, there are forums divided out specifically by age including hundreds of posts on 3 yo's alone :).

[sste]

I have been mocked by a three year old. Not to mention out-argued.

I did what Brittone and Katigre and others said. :) We were able to use love and logic with our three year old but he is very reason and logic-oriented as a person. In fact, I think his tantrums and misbehavior were his own version of love and logic on DH and me! We also used reward systems based on our ds's particular passions (e.g., scooby dvd after doing a good job in the evening or getting all ready for bed).

[Simon]

nak
wanted to come back to say that it isn't uncommon for kids that age and even school aged kids to hold it together fine all day in preschool, school, etc. and then fall apart for mom and dad. It doesn't mean she is the problem. Kids can often hold it together in the other setting, and then the feelings and behavior comes out at home where they feel safe and like they can finally let down their guard.


A big yeah that. All of my suggestions have otherwise been made.

I don't think the 1-2-3 Magic approach works for all kids.
GYOB parenting is good and I second the Gentle Christian mothers board as a resource.

[overcome]

Anything written by John Rosemond. Not sure which of his books focuses on that age group, but there definitely some.

[jk3]

1-2-3 Magic does not work with overly strong-willed, opinionated children. It's too simple of a system and most of these kids need a more intellectual approach. Love and Logic is definitely a more comprehensive approach.