Anxiety: is this a normal response to school/separation?

[Aishe]

DD has been in kindergarten for about three months now. When she first started she had a terrible time with separation anxiety. The first couple weeks she would scream and cry and hold onto me like a monkey when I dropped her off. It was stressful but not surprising. She has been in daycare/preschool all her life and she has had separation anxiety to some degree that entire time. It waxes and wanes, but it is never completely absent.

She has improved a great deal since starting school, but she still gets whimpery and clingy when I leave. She asks me several times every morning if I always come back. On the weekends she often gets fixated on how many more days there are until she has to go back to school. She gets anxious and clingy at ballet class (which she used to love) and even at birthday parties on the weekends. When we get home from school her behavior is often pretty awful. She's cantankerous and whiny and lashes out at ds. She tells me that she doesn't like school, and when I ask why she says it's because she doesn't want to be apart from me. She says she doesn't have fun there and that she's not learning anything. (The latter cracks me up a little because she's in a Mandarin immersion program and she's absolutely learning Mandarin!) Her best friend of two years is in her class and she speaks favorably of some other classmates so it's not as if she's socially isolated or anything. We have our parent-teacher conference this week, but so far her teacher tells me that she's doing very well in school. So she's holding it together while she's there and she's cooperative and engaged. And when we're home and she's not thinking about school she's a generally content and happy girl.

She's obviously an innately anxious child and she comes by that naturally. I have struggled with severe anxiety my entire adult life, but I don't remember being as anxious as she when I was her age. DH, on the other hand, says his stomach was in knots every morning about school until he was in his teens. He thinks we should homeschool, which is something I have considered, but I'm not convinced at this point that it's the right choice for her or our family. But I do want to do something to mitigate her stress right now.

So I guess I'm asking if this is in the realm of a normal response to school. Should I speak to her ped about her anxiety? Or is this likely a phase that a lot of kids go through and that we just need to wait out? Any suggestions for techniques to help her feel less stressed?

[maestramommy]

Seeing as both you and Dh have had similar issues, I'd speak to the ped first, and ask if you can get a referral for developmental ped, or maybe child therapist?

[pinkmomagain]

I would ask the ped for a child psychologist referral. This person could just work with you to help you to help her and/or meet with your dd as well. Personally, I would try that first before homeschooling...particularly since she is doing so well at school.

All my kids are anxious to some degree, but my middle dd was much as you described at that age. Separation was her big issue for a long long time....far beyond what was typical. I am happy to say she is much better now.

[Indianamom2]

This is my DD to a "T". Even down to the "I don't like school because I don't like being away from you". I don't think I've ever heard of another child quite like DD with her separation anxiety/general anxiety.

We made it through K last year, but it was ROUGH. Every morning was awful...lots of tears and tantrums and DD even made herself physically sick some mornings, with tons of tummy aches and she even stopped eating at one point (a very long round of that). It was miserable for all of us, and then she would act out at home and worry about how many more days until the next week started.

The heck of it was, her teacher said she was doing really well and she wasn't really unhappy or unpopular at school, but she was miserable away from us.

We ended up with a referral to a behavioral/developmental pedi who diagnosed DD (who is 7, BTW) with high anxiety, ADHD (anxiety is a major symptom in girls), sensory processing disorder and a few other issues. Your DD may not have all these issues, but her anxiety alone is enough to seek help. It's miserable for her and for the whole family. We're still experimenting with treatments and getting ready for some meds most likely (getting a new appt. set up now).

I will say that this year has been MUCH improved. None of the tantrums and crying in the mornings....the afternoons are still really rough though. The separation anxiety has been much better.

:hug: This is much harder than it sounds...I know.

[lorinick]

I would talk to your ped. and mention that anxiety does run in the family on both sides. I wouldn't pull her from school, I'm pretty sure a therpist would agree that may make things worse. If she is doing good once she gets there I would be happy that she is conquearing her fears. I know when I had anxiety I was told to keep pushing myself to do things and not to let fear keep me from living life. Good luck.

[hillview]

DS1 was like this when he was 3-5. After the first few months when he was 5 it FINALLY got a lot better. Anxiety does not run in our family. I did consult a ped psych to make sure I was doing what I could to help and that it wasn't a crisis. I am glad I did.
/hillary

[Katigre]

DD has been in kindergarten for about three months now. When she first started she had a terrible time with separation anxiety. The first couple weeks she would scream and cry and hold onto me like a monkey when I dropped her off. It was stressful but not surprising. She has been in daycare/preschool all her life and she has had separation anxiety to some degree that entire time. It waxes and wanes, but it is never completely absent.

She has improved a great deal since starting school, but she still gets whimpery and clingy when I leave. She asks me several times every morning if I always come back. On the weekends she often gets fixated on how many more days there are until she has to go back to school. She gets anxious and clingy at ballet class (which she used to love) and even at birthday parties on the weekends. When we get home from school her behavior is often pretty awful. She's cantankerous and whiny and lashes out at ds. She tells me that she doesn't like school, and when I ask why she says it's because she doesn't want to be apart from me. She says she doesn't have fun there and that she's not learning anything. (The latter cracks me up a little because she's in a Mandarin immersion program and she's absolutely learning Mandarin!) Her best friend of two years is in her class and she speaks favorably of some other classmates so it's not as if she's socially isolated or anything. We have our parent-teacher conference this week, but so far her teacher tells me that she's doing very well in school. So she's holding it together while she's there and she's cooperative and engaged. And when we're home and she's not thinking about school she's a generally content and happy girl.

She's obviously an innately anxious child and she comes by that naturally. I have struggled with severe anxiety my entire adult life, but I don't remember being as anxious as she when I was her age. DH, on the other hand, says his stomach was in knots every morning about school until he was in his teens. He thinks we should homeschool, which is something I have considered, but I'm not convinced at this point that it's the right choice for her or our family. But I do want to do something to mitigate her stress right now.

So I guess I'm asking if this is in the realm of a normal response to school. Should I speak to her ped about her anxiety? Or is this likely a phase that a lot of kids go through and that we just need to wait out? Any suggestions for techniques to help her feel less stressed?
Some children need more contact with their parents than others to feel secure and attached - the fact that she has always had separation anxiety shows that she is on the far end of 'needing parents for security and to avoid anxiety' spectrum which makes sense given your family history but can be uncomfortable culturally that doesn't really believe it's ok for a 5-6 year old to be upset about separation from parents.

In that situation, homeschool is something I would strongly consider *for now* to help repair the separation damage from before (b/c even though it seems like she should be absolultely fine with separation, the fact that she's not and hasn't ever really been indicates, to me, that there is something really painful about it for her that needs time to heal). The other option is finding other ways to really connect with her in her love languages over and above what you think she probably needs.

She will not always be this way - but pushing for independence earlier than they are ready (on a global, daily scale instead of intermittently with periods of reconnection) can be counterproductive in the long run IME.

[MamaKath]

Another "yes talk to the ped, get a referral." Therapy may really help you guys figure out ways to move past it or at least help to give her coping strategies. I will say also though, anxiety is often a symptom of another things going on. Anxiety very often is hand in hand with ADHD, sensory processing dysfunction, and Aspergers/ other ASD. Some of those are not diagnosable with true accuracy until the age of 7.

I am homeschooling now. With ds, I wish I had actually tried a different school when he was a bit younger (he was in private, I wish we had put him in public with more supports a few years back, his age/size preclude him from some things he would have been eligible for at that point). Now I feel that my options are more limited. I am hoping we are successful this year with hs, but it remains to be seen. It is very stressful to deal with his anxiety and my own. As parents who have dx ourselves, hs is even more challenging!

[Aishe]

Thank you for your responses. It sounds like I need to make a call to the ped. I would be very surprised if the anxiety was part of something like ASD or ADHD. She doesn't have any symptoms of those disorders to my knowledge, and her development generally has been pretty textbook so far. The only thing I can think of is that she's fussy about tags, elastic, etc . . . in her clothes, but it's not to an extreme degree. Still, I will certainly keep my mind open to the possibility of larger issues.


In that situation, homeschool is something I would strongly consider *for now* to help repair the separation damage from before (b/c even though it seems like she should be absolultely fine with separation, the fact that she's not and hasn't ever really been indicates, to me, that there is something really painful about it for her that needs time to heal). The other option is finding other ways to really connect with her in her love languages over and above what you think she probably needs.

One of the reasons I am reluctant to homeschool is that she's in a language immersion program and if we take her out there's no going back. Neither dh nor I speaks Mandarin so we could not possibly maintain the language instruction so that she could return after a prolonged period. So we would have to be absolutely certain that homeschooling was best for her before pulling her out. But I will definitely reread the love languages book. It's been several years and I could use a refresher on the concepts.

[Uno-Mom]

I just wanted to chime in with sympathy and good wishes that this improves quickly!

Maybe you've got this covered, but... if one of my clients was having this trouble I'd talk to them about thier routines and rituals. Do you have a special, slower soothing ritual before school? And after? Is there something you could give her charge of (like picking a podcast to hear on the way to school) that you could all look forward to finishing on the way HOME from school? So she really internalizes that happy rhythm of going your separate ways and rejoining again. And that rhythm has a nice focal point other than missing her parents.

Do you talk about things like what's planned for dinner that night? Something small and concrete like seeing the food organized and waiting in the fridge might improve her sense of control and predictability. Also, thinking ahead to dinner or some other family ritual touches on that sense of love and identity she needs so much!

Good luck with this. We've had just the tiniest taste of separation anxiety but even that little bit really got to me. It's one of those things that hurt way more irl than you expect. At least for me.

[roseyloxs]

I understand leaving the immersion program feels like a big deal but I would still consider homeschooling. Even if she never learns mandarin I think she would be well served to have instruction that is tailored to her and her comfort level.

Is there any chance the school would let you miss a half day or two during the week until she feels more comfortable there? If that is not possible maybe you can volunteer to stay for an hour in the morning to help her settle in?

[pinkmomagain]

Maybe you've got this covered, but... if one of my clients was having this trouble I'd talk to them about thier routines and rituals. Do you have a special, slower soothing ritual before school? And after? Is there something you could give her charge of (like picking a podcast to hear on the way to school) that you could all look forward to finishing on the way HOME from school? So she really internalizes that happy rhythm of going your separate ways and rejoining again. And that rhythm has a nice focal point other than missing her parents.

Do you talk about things like what's planned for dinner that night? Something small and concrete like seeing the food organized and waiting in the fridge might improve her sense of control and predictability. Also, thinking ahead to dinner or some other family ritual touches on that sense of love and identity she needs so much!



I've never seen/heard these ideas articulated and I think they are excellent to try while you are trying to sort things out. These are subtle but potentially impactful things that could really help with transition and help to get her mind off of worry (which is something that anxiety children and adults have difficulty doing).

[Uno-Mom]

I've never seen/heard these ideas articulated and I think they are excellent to try while you are trying to sort things out. These are subtle but potentially impactful things that could really help with transition and help to get her mind off of worry (which is something that anxiety children and adults have difficulty doing).

I hope they're helpful! :). I've had very good luck taking problem solving techniques originally designed for folks with processing disorders and using them for us "neurotypical" folks. Dh and I write plans like this a lot for our clients who have disabilities and then we realized we need plans like this for ourselves! Also our neurotypical kid. We're all mostly the same afterall...

[Aishe]

Maybe you've got this covered, but... if one of my clients was having this trouble I'd talk to them about thier routines and rituals. Do you have a special, slower soothing ritual before school? And after? Is there something you could give her charge of (like picking a podcast to hear on the way to school) that you could all look forward to finishing on the way HOME from school? So she really internalizes that happy rhythm of going your separate ways and rejoining again. And that rhythm has a nice focal point other than missing her parents.

Do you talk about things like what's planned for dinner that night? Something small and concrete like seeing the food organized and waiting in the fridge might improve her sense of control and predictability. Also, thinking ahead to dinner or some other family ritual touches on that sense of love and identity she needs so much!

You know, this is excellent advice. I definitely need to be more mindful of our routines and how they affect dd. Our mornings are pretty good - I give her some cuddle time, I make her favorite breakfast - but afternoons could use some work. We have dinner as a family every night so that's something, but I'm going to think about how to incorporate some "happy" rituals into our afternoon and evening routines. I think that might really help. Thank you!

[Cuckoomamma]

Well, I love homeschooling, so I could only encourage you to do so :-)

I understand your concern about the Mandarin, but in my point of view, while she is certainly learning (as you mentioned in your post), there's no way that she can be learning as much as she could be if she's feeling so uncomfortable away from all of you.

I'm firmly in the "meet the need and then it goes away" camp. I think that you'd find that eventually she'd become quite comfortable being away from you if you homeschooled her. Would she eventually be okay with separation if you don't hs her? Maybe yes, like some of the previous posters, maybe no like some of the kids who need meds in order to keep the anxiety at bay or eventually end up homeschooling anyway. I would see reducing her stress as key. It doesn't really matter what's considered "normal", just what she's feeling, kwim?

There are some parents who feel too tapped out to hs, and I understand that. But, if you're willing, it sounds like your dd would really benefit.

FWIW, some people look at hs as a way to cope with a situation for a period of time. Others hs because of the freedom it allows you to guide your child's education. We chose to hs because we view it as the best education a child can get. I understand that some people see it as something kids do when they aren't successful in school. However, there are many who choose it because it offers so many great opportunities both academically and socially.

As I said in the beginning of my post, I'm a huge fan of hs'ing, so clearly I'm not unbiased :-)

[ahisma]

Is there a chance that the immersion program is intensifying her anxiety? Maybe, if she is prone to anxiety, being immersed in another language is just too uncomfortable.

I don't have any experience with immersion programs, although I would definitely LOVE the option to send DS to one. I could be way off base, but it jumped out at me and thought it was worth mentioning.

[Aishe]

Is there a chance that the immersion program is intensifying her anxiety? Maybe, if she is prone to anxiety, being immersed in another language is just too uncomfortable.

I don't have any experience with immersion programs, although I would definitely LOVE the option to send DS to one. I could be way off base, but it jumped out at me and thought it was worth mentioning.

I've considered this as well, but I'm just not sure. Learning a new language seems to be the one part of school that she really enjoys. She likes to teach me Mandarin words (and mock my pronunciation!) and she voluntarily practices writing characters. But she has also expressed frustration at not always being able to understand her teacher. My impression so far is that the immersion program itself is not the problem. She had separation anxiety in preschool as well, often to the same degree, and everyone was speaking English there.

[Uno-Mom]

It sounds like school itself is actually going fairly well for her, from what you've shared. She holds it together while there and does well. Maybe the language factor is extra-tiring for her, even if she loves it. It would require so much extra neural processing! That might be increasing her need to fall apart at home and make her need even more soothing tangible activities with dad and mom after school. That wouldn't make me assume she needed to leave the program, at least not until you've tried other changes at home (and pedi consultation?) first.

I've always wished I had learned a second language as a child. It's something I'd love to find for Sprog, if there's a good local option when she hits school age.

[Aishe]

Well, I love homeschooling, so I could only encourage you to do so :-)

I understand your concern about the Mandarin, but in my point of view, while she is certainly learning (as you mentioned in your post), there's no way that she can be learning as much as she could be if she's feeling so uncomfortable away from all of you.

I'm firmly in the "meet the need and then it goes away" camp. I think that you'd find that eventually she'd become quite comfortable being away from you if you homeschooled her. Would she eventually be okay with separation if you don't hs her? Maybe yes, like some of the previous posters, maybe no like some of the kids who need meds in order to keep the anxiety at bay or eventually end up homeschooling anyway. I would see reducing her stress as key. It doesn't really matter what's considered "normal", just what she's feeling, kwim?

There are some parents who feel too tapped out to hs, and I understand that. But, if you're willing, it sounds like your dd would really benefit.

FWIW, some people look at hs as a way to cope with a situation for a period of time. Others hs because of the freedom it allows you to guide your child's education. We chose to hs because we view it as the best education a child can get. I understand that some people see it as something kids do when they aren't successful in school. However, there are many who choose it because it offers so many great opportunities both academically and socially.

As I said in the beginning of my post, I'm a huge fan of hs'ing, so clearly I'm not unbiased :-)

Thanks, I'm still mulling over the possibility of homeschooling. I just feel like it's too early to give up on her current program. We're only three months in and her separation anxiety has definitely improved since school started. She's not going into hysterics at drop-off anymore, at least. But at the same time it's affecting her quality of life even outside of school, and that's what has me concerned. I know her stress would be reduced if I hs'd her, but I guess I'm not convinced that it would help her overcome her separation anxiety. I mean, she can't learn to separate from me if I never actually make her do it, kwim? Or I guess you and Katigre are arguing that by letting her be with me, she would become secure enough to learn to deal with separation? I dunno, I'm conflicted about it.

I will say that outside of the Mandarin instruction I am not at all impressed with the curriculum so far. And I am conscious of the trade-offs of providing her with the language immersion vs. the individualized instruction of hs'ing. It's a lot to consider and I just don't want to make any hasty decisions.

[Cuckoomamma]

Yes, I'm saying that coping with separation is developmentally, very difficult. Despite what it looks like from the outside, many children have difficulty with it. They may detach from their discomfort, but young children are biologically programmed to be with their parents. It was a matter of survival in years past.

She will grow to be fine with separation on her own. Just like a child learns to walk, they learn to separate. Some children do it earlier, some later. Many moms find around 8 that children who were previously more clingy, become much less so.

A lot of what children do isn't taught. It's just a developmental change. Just like they become able to sit for longer periods of time to do desk work as they get older. It isn't something that they have to learn to do by imposing it when they're young. In fact, children who are forced to cope with something before they're ready many times are the ones who have more difficulty with whatever we're talking about, rather than those who haven't been practicing.

I always felt that it was like nursing, it's a developmentally appropriate response that they eventually grow out of when they no longer have such an intense need.

One last comment....a child can look like they are fine and that nothing is wrong, but actually have higher cortisol levels. Coping doesn't mean that someone is fine. Do you want her to just hold things together or thrive?

You might contact a local yahoo hs group and ask around. You'll hear plenty of stories of children who had separation anxiety, hs and grew up to be completely fine. And, I have a very high standard!

There are also plenty of drop off opportunities for hsers if that's what you'd like or if you want to test separation. You may just find that both of you absolutely love hsing, if you try it.

[Caring Mum]

Our child has had anxiety issues that sound fairly similar to those you have described. Our eldest child gets very anxious when we drop her off in the mornings to school. She goes through ups and downs where she seems more anxious one week and not so anxious the following week. Her teacher said that once the class starts she is fine but does take a little while to settle down.

It has not just been limited to being dropped off at school. She has also been worried that we were going to leave her when we take her for her swimming lessons. The pool we use has a gallery where we can watch from. This is behind glass and up a level from the pool so communication is not possible with people pool side though they can see you behind the glass. Recently our daughter seems to spend a lot of her lesson looking up to what I can only assume is to check we are still there.

Also, a friend from her class was having a birthday party at his house. We got to the house with the intention of dropping her off and returning a few hours later to pick her up. Our child got so distressed at the thought of us leaving that we had no choice but to take her with us as we had an appointment we could not miss (other wise we may have stayed for a while with her to see if she calmed down).

We were told that we should see a ped but a friend of ours also recommended a book called The Anxiety Free Child Program after reading the reviews on http://honest-health-product-reviews.com/reviews/the-anxiety-free-child-program-review . The book seems to specialise in treating anxiety within children. We are trying to make an appointment with the ped but will also look at purchasing The Anxiety Free Child Program in the mean time.