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SnuggleBuggles
11-17-2011, 10:08 PM
Probably mostly a vent but would be curious to hear (gentle) opinions. :) Ds1 has a 504 plan for his ADD dx. He's a straight A student, passed his first round of GIEP testing (taking next round soon), and basically does well on all things academic. However, he won't be earning high honor roll this term because he had 2 "needs improvement" on his report card. He needs improvement on organizing materials and practicing self control. She said the self control one was when he would, about once a week, come up to share some random thing with the teacher. She said it wasn;t a big deal, just something to work on (hence the "needs improvement"). i contest that those 2 things are part and parcel of a kid with ADD and I'd love if they didn't hold him back from earning awards. He's in 4th grade, btw. We really don't put much stock into awards and such though I am happy with his academic work. But, he is disappointed that for the 1st time he won't be getting an award. Hopefully he can make progress on those things but I worry that he is always going to struggle on the organization one.

Beth

hillview
11-18-2011, 08:13 AM
Wow no experience but that is a bummer. Tough spot but I would consider (not sure if I would) going to the teachers and discussing this. Congrats to DS on such a great report card!

roseyloxs
11-18-2011, 08:29 AM
That is BS and a terrible policy in general. What student, including straight A ones don't have something or two somethings to improve on? They can be a better team player, a better leader, more organized, more helpful, quieter, speak up more, I could list a hundred more. Its completely subjective and a terrible hit to a child's self esteem. If they are going to bother giving out awards and they probably just shouldn't for elementary students then they should do it fairly and just base it on grades. Furthermore for your exact student its even more of a travesty since his improvement marks are well known symptoms of ADD.

Both of my brothers had ADD with my youngest brother being the most severe and he would get hit with crap like that all the time. If he would forget his book for open reading the teacher would have him stare at his desk for 20 minutes instead of sending him to his locker or the library (just 5 feet away) to get it. Its so aggravating to hear about teachers who have no interest in understanding ADD and forgiving a simple slip here or there. Its not like they aren't/weren't trying.

I would definitely have a chat with the teacher or the principal to at least discuss possible future awards.

pinkmomagain
11-18-2011, 08:31 AM
No advice but I do sympathize. It does seem unfair that he the awards are somewhat based on these elements that clearly come right along with his ADD dx. DD2 struggles big time with the organizational piece. Maybe take stock that as he gets older (MS, HS) teachers won't be grading self control or organizational skills (although these can affect academic grades). And although your DS is disappointed, how our kids process things like this is influenced greatly by how we as parents react. I'm sure you are doing a great job helping him get passed it.

JTsMom
11-18-2011, 09:30 AM
I don't think that's fair, and it would definitely bother me. He must not be THAT disorganized if he's doing so well academically, right? And if sharing 1 random thing a week with your teacher qualifies as a self control problem for any child, let alone one with ADHD, I can't imagine too many kids have it!

Gena
11-18-2011, 09:42 AM
i contest that those 2 things are part and parcel of a kid with ADD and I'd love if they didn't hold him back from earning awards.

This would really upset me. These are manifestations of his ADD. So your child is being penalized for having a disorder. I would discuss this policy with the school.

♥ms.pacman♥
11-18-2011, 09:43 AM
I don't think that's fair, and it would definitely bother me. He must not be THAT disorganized if he's doing so well academically, right? And if sharing 1 random thing a week with your teacher qualifies as a self control problem for any child, let alone one with ADHD, I can't imagine too many kids have it!

:yeahthat:

i totally agree with this and what roseylox said. IMO that's not fair at all. if he's getting excellent grades, he must be somewhat decently organized. and if spontaneously sharing something w/ a teacher once a WEEK qualifies as "needs better self control," then i can't imagine most kids (ADD or not) who meet their standard of self-control.

SnuggleBuggles
11-18-2011, 10:05 AM
Thanks all for confirming my gut feeling on this. Maybe I'll start by talking with the special ed. director and talk about his 504 plan and appropriate expectations for all of us involved.

Beth

missym
11-18-2011, 10:46 AM
We're experiencing first-hand the difference between a teacher who "gets" ADHD and one who doesn't. Last year was awful. DD1 was convinced she was a "bad student" and she started hating school. We kept hearing things like, "If she'd just try harder..." Her teacher really thought if she just tried hard enough, she'd be able to act/think like the non-ADD kids. I felt like saying, she's getting A's and B's, what more do you want from the poor kid? :irked:

This year is going great. She loves school and her teacher. Night and day difference. I'm sorry you seem to be dealing with a teacher who doesn't "get" it.

hbridge
11-21-2011, 07:57 AM
I may be the voice of dissent, BUT we have already vowed that NO MATTER WHAT the diagnosis, the expectations on DC are the same as we would have for any other child! We will do all we can to help manage whatever the issue is, but the expectations at home and school are the same! The world doesn't care about your child's diagnosis and not making high honors in grade school may just give him the incentive to figure out strategies that work for him that will help him in the areas that he is "struggling".

I totally understand your frustration, I do. BUT, as we help our children prepare for their future, it's important to make sure that we don't give them excuses...

SnuggleBuggles
11-21-2011, 08:40 AM
On the flip of that, I would say that not everyone is going to have success with certain organizational systems and sometimes it takes trial. The end result too- the good grades and, more importantly, mastery of the subject, matters most. At least to me. So maybe he will be one with a messy office when he is older. That seems likely. It's not like he comes from a house where things are neat and organized. ;) We certainly will work on it but I want a bit of breathing room on it because he's not going to do a night and day transformation.

Beth

hbridge
11-21-2011, 08:58 AM
I totally understand the need for time to help him determine the best way to make it work for himself. However, this is simply "high honors", not getting it may just help him.

As we wait for our own child's diagnosis, I keep thinking back to a family member that I was told was "disabled" due to ADHD (and ONLY ADHD). From the point of diagnosis on, the family gave this child an excuse from all expectations. As an adult, this has NOT served any of them well...

So while I understand your frustration, especially since I'm of the camp of "why is organization tied into honor roll? If he can get the grades isn't that enough?"; if the school includes these things in their determination, that's the way it is. Personally, I wouldn't address this with the school, just discuss it with your child in at matter-of-fact manner and not make a big deal out of it. He's doing his very best and earning good grades, that's all that matters!

SnuggleBuggles
11-21-2011, 09:05 AM
But, he wants to be recognized for his good grades and he doesn't see areas to improve on with organization. :P I don't use his an excuse for anything but this I am willing to. He's in 4th grade. There are expectations upon him and he meets most all of them. I'm comfortable (as are most others so far) with having the chat. I plan to start the approach looking for suggestions to improve from his teachers as well as just touching bas about his 504 plan because I have not met with her about that nor anyone else at the school this year. It's just good to check in and make sure we are on the same page. I'm going to advocate for him while he is still little. The adult stuff...he can figure that out.

Beth

hbridge
11-21-2011, 09:32 AM
That approach sounds reasonable :)! I'm sorry if I lectured, I just see too many people using diagnoses as an excuse to not reach their full potential...

SnuggleBuggles
11-21-2011, 09:33 AM
I've seen that too. I just don't think I am "that" mom. I rarely, rarely bring up the dx to him or anyone.

Beth

missym
11-21-2011, 10:21 AM
I may be the voice of dissent, BUT we have already vowed that NO MATTER WHAT the diagnosis, the expectations on DC are the same as we would have for any other child! ...

I totally understand your frustration, I do. BUT, as we help our children prepare for their future, it's important to make sure that we don't give them excuses...

There is a difference IMO between expectations in terms of academic achievement and adaptation to differing learning styles, levels of organizational skills, etc. All the kids in the class who are able to need to master the same academics. But they don't necessarily need to do it in the same way. If differering needs can be supported, better achievement can occur. For example, our DD needs to get up and move around more frequently than some of her peers, and expecting her to sit quietly for extended periods without interruption like her classmates could (as happened last year) is detrimental to her learning. Last year's teacher didn't get that; this year's does.

Gena
11-21-2011, 10:52 AM
I may be the voice of dissent, BUT we have already vowed that NO MATTER WHAT the diagnosis, the expectations on DC are the same as we would have for any other child! We will do all we can to help manage whatever the issue is, but the expectations at home and school are the same! The world doesn't care about your child's diagnosis and not making high honors in grade school may just give him the incentive to figure out strategies that work for him that will help him in the areas that he is "struggling".

I totally understand your frustration, I do. BUT, as we help our children prepare for their future, it's important to make sure that we don't give them excuses...

I don't know your situation, your child's age or (potential) diagnosis, but I think this is very short-sighted. It's certainly not an approriate approach for every diagnosis. Adjusting expections based on a realistic understanding of a child's needs and abilities is NOT the same things as using a diagnoses as an excuse.

One of my son's current teachers told us that it is her goal to have him "be like a typical child". That is an unrealistic and unobtainable goal for him. Her ideas that she can somehow discipline his diagnosis out of him have turned my happy, thriving child into a miserable, lost little boy.

The idea that the world doesn't care about a child's (or an adult's) diagnosis is a reason to change the world, not a reason to try to force my child to be something he's not (a typical child).

hbridge
11-21-2011, 11:22 AM
I don't know your situation, your child's age or (potential) diagnosis, but I think this is very short-sighted. It's certainly not an approriate approach for every diagnosis. Adjusting expections based on a realistic understanding of a child's needs and abilities is NOT the same things as using a diagnoses as an excuse.

One of my son's current teachers told us that it is her goal to have him "be like a typical child". That is an unrealistic and unobtainable goal for him. Her ideas that she can somehow discipline his diagnosis out of him have turned my happy, thriving child into a miserable, lost little boy.

The idea that the world doesn't care about a child's (or an adult's) diagnosis is a reason to change the world, not a reason to try to force my child to be something he's not (a typical child).

I agree, and anyone who tries to put my child in a mold will be sorely dissappointed because it WILL NOT happen. However, if part of obtaining an award is having good marks in organization and a child does not (for whatever reason) then they shouldn't get the award. I totally believe that children should be allowed to stand, figit, ect as long as they are not distracting other students and are getting their own work done Yes, some reasonable accomodations should be made, BUT IMO grades, awards, ect. should be based on the same criteria for ALL students; even those with differences! If that difference is preventing the award or high grade (and doesn't make complete sense as stated by OP), we should be trying to change the criteria, not asking for special accomodations for one particular student.

Again, this is my opinion based on what I have seen within the school system and within my extended family.

JTsMom
11-21-2011, 03:11 PM
There is a difference IMO between expectations in terms of academic achievement and adaptation to differing learning styles, levels of organizational skills, etc. All the kids in the class who are able to need to master the same academics. But they don't necessarily need to do it in the same way. If differering needs can be supported, better achievement can occur. For example, our DD needs to get up and move around more frequently than some of her peers, and expecting her to sit quietly for extended periods without interruption like her classmates could (as happened last year) is detrimental to her learning. Last year's teacher didn't get that; this year's does.


I don't know your situation, your child's age or (potential) diagnosis, but I think this is very short-sighted. It's certainly not an approriate approach for every diagnosis. Adjusting expections based on a realistic understanding of a child's needs and abilities is NOT the same things as using a diagnoses as an excuse.

One of my son's current teachers told us that it is her goal to have him "be like a typical child". That is an unrealistic and unobtainable goal for him. Her ideas that she can somehow discipline his diagnosis out of him have turned my happy, thriving child into a miserable, lost little boy.

The idea that the world doesn't care about a child's (or an adult's) diagnosis is a reason to change the world, not a reason to try to force my child to be something he's not (a typical child).

Well said ladies. Gena, I'm so sorry. That mindset is maddening, to say the least. I hope that someday, people will understand that these conditions are just like any other disability in the sense that it is a real condition, and that willpower is not a cure.

SnuggleBuggles
11-21-2011, 03:56 PM
I agree, and anyone who tries to put my child in a mold will be sorely dissappointed because it WILL NOT happen. However, if part of obtaining an award is having good marks in organization and a child does not (for whatever reason) then they shouldn't get the award. I totally believe that children should be allowed to stand, figit, ect as long as they are not distracting other students and are getting their own work done Yes, some reasonable accomodations should be made, BUT IMO grades, awards, ect. should be based on the same criteria for ALL students; even those with differences! If that difference is preventing the award or high grade (and doesn't make complete sense as stated by OP), we should be trying to change the criteria, not asking for special accomodations for one particular student.

Again, this is my opinion based on what I have seen within the school system and within my extended family.


I was almost with you before but you lost me again. :) I don't think the same criteria needs to be met. He (and other kids) have student plans that are modified to take dx into consideration. He has special seating (f we want) and other things in place to help him succeed. I think that this is another area, organization, that may need to be addressed for my kid and his goals may need to be modified from the "typical" kid.

Beth

Gena
11-21-2011, 06:48 PM
BUT IMO grades, awards, ect. should be based on the same criteria for ALL students; even those with differences! If that difference is preventing the award or high grade (and doesn't make complete sense as stated by OP), we should be trying to change the criteria, not asking for special accomodations for one particular student.

I disagree. My child has a modified curriculum because in some academic areas he is far ahead of classmates and in others he is far behind. This is a manifestation of his disorder(s). So his grades are based on his modified curriculum, not on what the other children doing. One size does not fit all.