HUGE School WWYD: Jesus in the PS Classroom - UPDATE in #61

[pinkmomagain]

DD3 just asked if Jesus is a god. I explained people who believe in Jesus believe that he is the son of God. I asked where she is hearing about Jesus and she said school. She is in 1st grade at a public school. Our community is 99.9% christian. So I asked from who: kids (I know this is the first year of CCD for many kids in my area and religion gets discussed some among the children)? teacher (we are in love with her teacher who my middle daughter also had for first)? So she says that from her teacher. She then says that the teacher has shown the entire class two movies about Jesus on the smartboard. One of the movies showed Jesus healing a child. The other movie was about a boy juggling, Jesus' face gets red, the boy dies, and then Jesus is happy holding a golden ball.

I am freaking out on so. many. levels. First, it's public school...there is no place for this kind of instruction from the teacher. Two, we LOVE this veteran teacher and are really surprised. Three, we are an interfaith, nonreligious family (jewish/catholic) and I am not comfortable with this type of info being exposed to my child at this age....from someone other than her parents.

I don't know how to proceed. Normally, when there is a problem at school, I approach the teacher first. But nothing she says (unless my dd is completely making this up, which is almost impossible) is going to be adequate and something that the principal shouldn't be concerned with. WWYD? How would you do it? I am tempted to have a private conversation with the principal, but not sure if it's the right/best thing to do.

[kijip]

I would talk to the principal. That is not cool and too detailed to be a fabrication or a mistake.

[crl]

I'd try to think about what I want to happen. Do you want an apology and an assurance it won't happen again? Do you want something in the teacher's employment records/some kind of discipline? Do you want the teacher fired? If the first, then I'd approach the teacher first. If one of the last two I'd go straight to the principal.

I'd be appalled, btw, and we are Christian.

Catherine

[Green_Tea]

I would not do anything until you get more information about what, exactly, was shown to the kids. Can you call another parent who has a kid in the class and try to get more details about the films? Email the teacher and ask her? I am not saying you shouldn't approach the principal, but I would not do so without more details/information. I don't think your DD is lying. But I also don't think you know enough about what, exactly, was shown to the class. The second description sounds particularly odd.

[Simon]

What is the goal with telling the principal? Genuinely curious. Is it to get her in trouble? To make sure she understands it was wrong and doesn't do it again next year? So that s/he knows what is going on at school?

I would at least give the teacher a head's up that you are going to the principal, so she isn't blindsided by it, kwim?

I would let her know you were shocked to have Dd asking Q's about Jesus and to talk about the films and so you are writing/calling her and also plan to express your displeasure to the principal.

[wolverine2]

I'd start with the teacher first to verify the facts...the boy juggling/Jesus holding a golden ball thing sounds strange, so you want to know exactly what she showed them and you can express your concern.

Then I'd still go to the principal so that he/she knows that policy needs to be reviewed with teachers.

[Jacksmommy2b]

Wow, that is really tough.

Do you really love the teacher otherwise?

If it wasn't for the history with the teacher I would go in guns blazing. I am really PO'ed for you! We're Catholic by default but don't practice religion and I would be beyond fuming if I felt that not just religious but something so specifically christian was being hoisted on my very young child. The whole thing with the dead kid is beyond acceptable.

If you are really a fan of the teacher, I would go to her first. Maybe, *maybe* there is a reasonable explaination. Perhaps someone brought something Jesus-y for show and tell. Maybe there was a discussion of various religions. (although I don't really like that idea either!) I would *Try* to calmly explain what your child came home with and ask if she has any idea what happened. If you aren't 100% okay with her explaination I would go to the principal.

[smilequeen]

I think you need to talk with the teacher first. Nothing can change what's in the past, but she needs to stop. The only way I'd go to the principal is if the teacher refused to cease with the Jesus talk.

[buddyleebaby]

I would write the teacher about it. Religious instruction is not part of public school.



As an aside...the second description sounds similar to "The Clown of God", which is a folktale. Tomie DePaola has retold/published many folktales from around the world, and they do mentions God or Gods or Great Spirits. They are not all Christian and my children enjoy them but honestly I think to read it on its own and not in the context of folktales from different countries/faiths is extremely odd.

[niccig]

I know the boy juggling and a statue of Jesus ends up holding the golden ball...it is a book. I can't remember the name.

[JBaxter]

Did all of the winter holidays get discussed? I know in the past they did a day of each of the winter holidays. Christian, Jewish, Kawanza etc. I would start with teacher for clarification I can see trying to stir up trouble if there isnt any.

[pinkmomagain]

As an aside...the second description sounds similar to "The Clown of God", which is a folktale. Tomie DePaola has retold/published many folktales from around the world, and they do mentions God or Gods or Great Spirits. They are not all Christian and my children enjoy them but honestly I think to read it on its own and not in the context of folktales from different countries/faiths is extremely odd.

Thank you for mentioning this. I do know that dd has been reading Strega Nona stories in class by the same author. I'm going to look up the story and ask her if it was that book.

Thank you all for your replies. I'm mulling through them. I wouldn't want the teacher fired. She is super. My dd LOVES her. She writes "I love you" to the teacher on top of her homework every night. Maybe I will speak directly with her first and see where it goes....Keep the input coming. It's helping me off the ledge....

[vludmilla]

I think you need to talk to the teacher first and then assess if you still need to talk to the principal. I can't see any good coming from going to the principal first. In the culture of most schools, it is expected that you go through the teacher before bringing a complaint to the principal.

[larig]

totally not okay. definitely talk to the principal.

ETA: okay, maybe talk to the teacher if you think she may be teaching about many cultures' beliefs. still this would bother me with that age.

[chozen]

I think you need to talk to the teacher first and then assess if you still need to talk to the principal. I can't see any good coming from going to the principal first. In the culture of most schools, it is expected that you go through the teacher before bringing a complaint to the principal.

:yeahthat: i think if you talk to the teacher about it and not the principal there will be far less tension between you and her or her and your dd.

[zag95]

I would get more information. Maybe they are looking at religious traditions or something related to stories that were read? Who knows. Based on the fact that you love this teacher and have a past history with her, I'd schedule a time to meet and find out what and why these movies were shown, the motives, etc. And then express how it makes you feel as a parent.

As a former HS social studies teacher, I would show things about Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and other faith traditions, that probably would have made many parents uncomfortable (if their HS students shared that info with them), when we looked at different world religions.

I agree that it is your job as the parent to share about personal religious faith.

Good luck.

[acmom]

I would definitely talk to the teacher first, both to get clarification and because I feel that issues should be brought to the teacher before going to the principal.

I am a teacher and have taught pre-k through 2nd grade, in public schools in several different states. In several of them, "holiday celebrations" were part of the social studies curriculum. In all cases, we as teachers presented different ways people celebrated without getting into specific religious beliefs, but at times, the children did bring this piece into the conversation based on their own experiences outside school. It can be a tricky subject as a teacher, especially with children that age -they may understand "different people celebrate/believe different things", but they can't really comprehend the sensitivity of the topic.

That being said, there is no way the teacher should be presenting movies etc. that bring religious beliefs into the classroom. I would talk to her about your concerns and then if you do not feel that she understands them or is addressing them, I would tell her that you feel you need to speak with principal about it.

[speo]

I would at least give the teacher a head's up that you are going to the principal, so she isn't blindsided by it, kwim?

I would let her know you were shocked to have Dd asking Q's about Jesus and to talk about the films and so you are writing/calling her and also plan to express your displeasure to the principal.

I think I would probably do something like this. I would tell the teacher it was unacceptable and then move on to the principal. I think the principal should know. I can't think of any valid reason a movie about Jesus should be shown in a public school 1st grade class. This is a huge issue for me. If I felt like my concerns were not adequately addressed I might go to the school board and even contact this group http://www.au.org/.

[DietCokeLover]

First, I'll say I am a Christian, so it may effect my perspective. But, I would not do anything without getting more information. My kids come home from preschool all the time with crazy stories of what they did that when I figure out the real story are laughable.

ETA, this would also be my response if the scenario were not dealing with my own faith. I'm big on not jumping too quickly to act until there is more information.

[vludmilla]

I just need to add that DH and I are both atheists and work in public schools and yet I don't get the intensity of the response to this without more information. I would not go to the principal first over this. It is possible that there is a reasonable explanation. What if this was in the context of reading a fairy tale? ETA: Apparently it is a retelling of a French legend. Personally, I don't care for the story but I don't want to exclude all literature that has any religious theme.

Frankly, I wish the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have a reference to God in it. Seems to me people upset about this should be equally, if not more, upset about the Pledge of Allegiance which is recited in most classrooms. The situation as described would only bother me if I believed that it was an attempt to inculcate religious beliefs in my child. I am an atheist but I don't need to pretend to DD that religious beliefs don't exist. It seems to me that the important issue is not whether or not religion was mentioned, but rather what the intentions were as that makes all the difference in the world to me.

[traciann]

Go to the teacher first and discuss what dd said to you. I honestly can't imagine a teacher talking about God/Jesus openly in school like this. I am religious and a teacher but its just not something I could see a teacher doing without getting into trouble. Talk to the teacher before you bring the principal into the situation.

[sadie427]

It's ok to talk to the teacher first/simultaneously, but this is absolutely inexcusable behavior and I would discuss it with the principal no matter what the teacher says. This is not something a kid that age would make up.

[Melaine]

I agree that you need to figure out exactly what happened before going to anyone about this, especially since what your daughter is describing is not a Bible story that I can think of (and I've read the Bible all the way through more than once). I wonder if it could have been a story about a Greek God or a fable of some kind and somehow she associated the person (wearing long robes perhaps?) with Jesus? Either way, more info is needed as pps have said.

[mommylamb]

Do you know any of the other families of kids in the class? I'd want to do a sanity check with another mom or dad first, if I felt comfortable with them. Before going to the principal, I think it's a good thing to talk to the teacher first, and make sure you know the full story from her perspective. But, if your daughter is relating this to you accurately, I would absolutely talk to the principal too.

That said, this would make me extremely angry. The separation of church and state is really important to me, and I think it goes beyond the borders of unprofessional to proselytize to someone else's child. Really, if this is the true and full story, I would throw a fit, and no matter how much I liked the teacher, I would do everything I could to move my child to another class. People who do this sort of thing do not realize that they are in the wrong, and I think it's likely that they will continue to push their beliefs onto others, just in a more subtle manner.

[Green_Tea]

It's ok to talk to the teacher first/simultaneously, but this is absolutely inexcusable behavior and I would discuss it with the principal no matter what the teacher says. This is not something a kid that age would make up.

Really? Even if it's evident that the OP's daughter misunderstood/misinterpreted what she saw?

I consider both of my DD's to be very accurate reporters of what they see/hear at school, but they're children. They don't always understand everything they see or hear. I trust them, but would still want to get the teacher's side of the story before I ran to her boss.

[sadie427]

Yes, sorry that this sounds harsh, but even saying something well intentioned that a child interpreted this way is something the principal needs to be aware of. They can come to their own conclusion about whether the teacher did anything inappropriate but they need to know about it. If the teacher truly didn't think this would be a problem, or the child reported it incorrectly, it won't be a problem that the principal knows that, and if the teacher acted incorrectly the principal needs to know.

[sasha]

The story with Jesus and the boy who juggles is The Clown of God by Tomie dePaola.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+clown+of+god&sprefix=the+clown+o

[Globetrotter]

My first reaction was no way, but after some thought I feel you should clarify with the teacher and find out in what context it was mentioned. Sometimes my kids mention things that turn out to be misunderstandings, though I think your child is accurate in the description since it appears to be a known story.

I would only be okay if they discussed it along with other faiths and did not bring value judgments into the discussion, though I sense this did not happen in this case since you live in a heavily Christian community.

I would make it clear that this is inappropriate (isn't it illegal?) and it should not happen again.

[JBaxter]

Yes, sorry that this sounds harsh, but even saying something well intentioned that a child interpreted this way is something the principal needs to be aware of. They can come to their own conclusion about whether the teacher did anything inappropriate but they need to know about it. If the teacher truly didn't think this would be a problem, or the child reported it incorrectly, it won't be a problem that the principal knows that, and if the teacher acted incorrectly the principal needs to know.

Not all school districts disallow such discussions. Some do each of the winter holidays in explanation of what each one is NOT which we should celebrate. The teacher is the first line the if you are not satisfied you go higher up. I am Christian and my older 3 all was taught about Hanukkah Kawanza and a few others I dont exactly remember. No way the first time my boys came home singing the dradle song would I have run to the principal. I asked the teacher who explained they talked about all the holidays. I was happy with that answer and didnt want to become "that" parent who complained about holiday discussions. It was balanced thats all I cared about.

[vludmilla]

T The separation of church and state is really important to me, and I think it goes beyond the borders of unprofessional to proselytize to someone else's child.

I completely agree with this. I am an atheist and I detest proselytizing, however, I would want to be very clear that it was before I did any complaining about it. Does reading any literature with religious themes or mentioning various religious traditions count as proselytizing? I think not. DH and I are quite ardently atheistic but we plan to have DD be very knowledgeable about religion through literature and discussions of the history and traditions of various religions. If she is to be an atheist like us (and I realize she may not be!), I want her to be knowledgeable about what she doesn't believe! I don't see any value in keeping her ignorant about things like this. I just don't want anyone trying to inculcate religious beliefs in her.

[sntm]

Personally, I'd talk to the teacher first. I suspect that she is either talking about various forms of holidays or simply using a really good Scholastic Books video of Clown of God. If that is the case, you could explain to her that your child interpreted this as talks about jesus and that you feel that is inappropriate for the classroom, giving her the option to either clarify things better (preferrably with a heads up to the parents as to what they are discussing) or to use other topics in the future. I'd only go to the principal if you feel that she is truly trying to pull one over on the parents.

Again, IMO, the separation of church and state as it applies to school should be such that no religion (or religion as opposed to atheism) should be promoted and no person should be made to feel uncomfortable about their beliefs. There are SCADS of great literary works with religious themes and/o religious undertones, tons of history in which religion played a major role, even political discussion, even scientific discussions (Galileo) involve religion. Trying to exclude all of that limits teachers a great deal and negatively impacts kids' education.

(and me? agnostic with history of attending religious services in a variety of faiths though mostly Christian and with Christian-ish heritage, but currently not religious at all)

[Uno-Mom]

Add me to the check with teacher group. You said you love the teacher, right?

Religion is a hot-button issue for me, too, but I would do my utmost not to over-react. I'd ask myself how I would respond if it was some other controversial subject.

Honestly, I think people want it both ways (random people, not talking to anybody here in particular). I think schools should either have a zero-tolerance policy about teachers discussing Christmas or other winter holidays..or they need to get parents' acceptance that Christianity and Jesus are going to be discussed. It is a Christian holiday. Almost every symbol used for this holiday in our culture has a Christian root. Just like Christian families have to accept that Christmas was founded on much earlier winter solstice celebrations...and many if the Christian symbols evolved out of pagan ones.

If I ruled the world... I'd just say public schools shouldn't discuss holidays at all. I realize that solution sucks, but I can't think of a better one!

I hope you can get this sorted out peacefully!

[crayonblue]

First, I'll say I am a Christian, so it may effect my perspective. But, I would not do anything without getting more information. My kids come home from preschool all the time with crazy stories of what they did that when I figure out the real story are laughable.

ETA, this would also be my response if the scenario were not dealing with my own faith. I'm big on not jumping too quickly to act until there is more information.

This and then I would talk to the teacher first if you still feel the need. My MIL, a former teacher and principal, always says, "Talk to the teacher first. You gain her respect. In many, many cases you will get MORE of a response by talking to the teacher first."

[Globetrotter]

If I ruled the world... I'd just say public schools shouldn't discuss holidays at all. I realize that solution sucks, but I can't think of a better one!


We aren't Christian, but I have no problem discussing the story of how baby Jesus was born during Christmas. However, I would expect similar discussions of other holidays and their origins.

As a cultural Hindu and room parent, I have read the story of Christ's birth during Christmas celebrations, to explain the origin of the holiday. However, I did the same for Diwali, and other moms came in for Eid (Muslim festival). As long as there is balance, I am okay, but we live in a diverse area where this is embraced. I fear the difficulty in this situation is that the teacher's bias will come into play and she may present this as the only way. In that case, there is no room for it in a public school setting, IMHO.

[wellyes]

Again, IMO, the separation of church and state as it applies to school should be such that no religion (or religion as opposed to atheism) should be promoted and no person should be made to feel uncomfortable about their beliefs. There are SCADS of great literary works with religious themes and/o religious undertones, tons of history in which religion played a major role, even political discussion, even scientific discussions (Galileo) involve religion. Trying to exclude all of that limits teachers a great deal and negatively impacts kids' education.

It is impossible to be culturally literate without some understanding of the Bible (and books of other faiths) - but we're talking 1st grade here. I would be furious if what the kid said is true.

[fivi2]

imo, regardless of the teacher's intentions, the fact that your dd came home with this understanding shows that somewhere there is a problem. I would most likely talk to the teacher, but still follow up with the principal. On paper, the teacher's lesson plan may be okay, but if kids walk out with a different understanding than what the lesson plan says - then something is wrong.

[kijip]

Yes, sorry that this sounds harsh, but even saying something well intentioned that a child interpreted this way is something the principal needs to be aware of. They can come to their own conclusion about whether the teacher did anything inappropriate but they need to know about it. If the teacher truly didn't think this would be a problem, or the child reported it incorrectly, it won't be a problem that the principal knows that, and if the teacher acted incorrectly the principal needs to know.


:yeahthat:

I don't see getting the principal involved to be a bad thing. The principal should be aware if anything like this. It's not a punitive thing, it is a supervision thing. The teacher reports to the principal and the principal should know of concerns along these lines.

[MamaMolly]

I have loved 'The Clown of God' since my own childhood :). I can see it being used as a folktale story for *part* of a theme of holidays (holy days, right?). Perhaps this week they were doing Christmas and next week it will be Hanukah or Kwanzaa or Eid?

As a former Pre-K teacher, then later as a 1st and 2nd grade teacher it used to bug the ever living daylights out of me that my curriculum for Hanukah and Eid and even Kwanzaa could discuss the religious/social/moral aspects of the holiday, but for Christmas we were only allowed to mention Santa (NOT St. Nicholas) and snowmen. I think it is a mistake to forbid the Christianity from Christmas if we are discussing many different kinds of holidays. But that's my BP for another thread another day ;)

[LexyLou]

I haven't read the other responses because I'm too pissed to slow down to read it.

My head would EXPLODE if DD came home and told me that. EXPLODE!!!

That is so NOT ok. I'm not even comfortable with a discussion about a general G-d let alone movies about Jesus!

I would most definitely bring it up with the teacher. I would probably send an email so I have a paper trail and cc the Principal ASAP.

[Uno-Mom]

We aren't Christian, but I have no problem discussing the story of how baby Jesus was born during Christmas. However, I would expect similar discussions of other holidays and their origins.

As a cultural Hindu and room parent, I have read the story of Christ's birth during Christmas celebrations, to explain the origin of the holiday. However, I did the same for Diwali, and other moms came in for Eid (Muslim festival). As long as there is balance, I am okay, but we live in a diverse area where this is embraced. I fear the difficulty in this situation is that the teacher's bias will come into play and she may present this as the only way. In that case, there is no room for it in a public school setting, IMHO.

I totally agree with you!! But really, how could a school present things that way, in a way that won't cause pain for some parents and kids. You can see even here, this is so sensitive to many that I don't see how there could be enough trust between parents and teachers to make that happen. Kwim?

[kbud]

Contact the teacher and find out what was shown, taught, discussed and the intent behind it. In first grade my dd learned about different religions. They did a brief intro to all the major religions in the world. We are in a public charter school. They are a Core Knowledge School. Here's the First grade lesson on teaching religions.

http://coreknowledge.org/mimik/mimik_uploads/lesson_plans/28/Teaching%20Religions%20in%20First%20Grade.pdf

This isn't from my dd's school but I found it on-line. Her class didn't go into this much detail but this was the basis of their unit.

http://blog.coreknowledge.org/tag/religion/


So maybe the lesson was in this type of context?

[justlearning]

I haven't read the replies but wanted to say that DS was taught about world religions in class as part of their first-grade curriculum. So he did learn about Christianity but also learned about the other major world religions as well. Have you asked you daughter if she's learned about any others?

[Globetrotter]

I totally agree with you!! But really, how could a school present things that way, in a way that won't cause pain for some parents and kids. You can see even here, this is so sensitive to many that I don't see how there could be enough trust between parents and teachers to make that happen. Kwim?


I think it works here because we are diverse and no religion represents the majority. It also works because we are respectful of other religions (the Christmas story isn't so threatening coming from a Hindu, for instance :)), but I think it's an unusual case. I grew up in the South, and this would have had a different connotation there (and unacceptable to me - I've had some bad experiences of attempted conversions - ugh).

[llama8]

I would contact the teacher and verify the facts before going to the principal.

BTW: religion can be taught in public school in the area of stories or culture, or history, just not taught as it is the one true religion.

I am a HS public school teacher and I teach all of the world religions in my Global history class (it is state mandated in NY).

If the teacher showed the story to teach a moral or fable, it is ok. As long as she is not saying only Christianity is the true religion or making students pray, she is within her right to do so. It is an aspect of culture...the same as using an excerpt of the koran or torah in cultural context.

[pinkmomagain]

Thanks again, everyone, for your responses.

I am going to send the teacher an email asking for clarification of what was shown and in what context and then go from there.

Just for background, I think normally the school does cover some christmas and hannukah stuff this time of year. I think it's more about how they are celebrated rather than why they are celebrated. The kids do crafts and there is a holiday concert that includes songs from both traditions. I do not believe there is any sort of curriculum on world religions at this grade level...honestly probably not until HS, where it is addressed in world history class. I completely agree, as others have posted, about the importance of cultural literacy and understanding the basis of all faiths. But what, how, and when it is discussed is important to me.

Anywho, I'll definitely update this thread when I get the teacher's response.

[hillview]

I would under react in this situation. If it was an ongoing thing that would be different. I'd talk to the teacher and go from there. Unless she was thumping a bible during our chat, I'd be inclined to let it go. I grew up Chistian and we don't practice now (but do celebrate Christian holidays). If it were a teacher talking about another religion I would actually look at it as a teaching moment. My kid isn't going to be brain washed by one teacher for an hour in class.

Sorry I know this may not be popular and I respect other opinions.
/hillary

[mommylamb]

It is impossible to be culturally literate without some understanding of the Bible (and books of other faiths) - but we're talking 1st grade here. I would be furious if what the kid said is true.


imo, regardless of the teacher's intentions, the fact that your dd came home with this understanding shows that somewhere there is a problem.

:yeahthat: to both of those quotes.

I think it's fine to make mention of religions, so long as various religions-- AND Atheism and Agnosticism-- are discussed in a balanced and fair manner. I think this is difficult to do, and well beyond the scope of 1st grade. I also think that as parents we have a responsibility to take this particular topic on as we educate our children rather than abdicate that responsibility to the school. When it comes to 6 year-olds, I think educating about the basics of how religions work is a parent's responsibility. Later in schooling they can learn about the great works of literature that deal with religion and the tenants of different faiths and how that impacts history. But not at 6. And, I would want to know a lot more about the curriculum regardless. It's also important that whoever is teaching this subject be extremely unbiased, and I think that is difficult.

I also think it is exceedingly easy for people in the dominant religious group in society to say, oh it's fine to teach religion in school as long they teach about all religions. It's an entirely different thing when you are part of a minority.

Of course I want my children to be religiously literate. They live in society and they need to understand the cultural background of those around them, be able to appreciate great literature that has religious roots, understand the complexities and beauties of the architecture of ancient cathedrals, understand history (including the role religion has played in countless wars and human suffering, as well as the good it has done)... but that can come at some point after 1st grade, and the first stop is me, not the school.

[pinkmomagain]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

[Pennylane]

I would under react in this situation. If it was an ongoing thing that would be different. I'd talk to the teacher and go from there. Unless she was thumping a bible during our chat, I'd be inclined to let it go. I grew up Chistian and we don't practice now (but do celebrate Christian holidays). If it were a teacher talking about another religion I would actually look at it as a teaching moment. My kid isn't going to be brain washed by one teacher for an hour in class.

Sorry I know this may not be popular and I respect other opinions.
/hillary

I agree completely! It seems like my children learn about every holiday at school but the Christian ones. It upsets me that they can discuss (at length)Kwanza and Hanukkah,but barely touch on Christian beliefs.

Ann

[chozen]

i think you did a good job with it, you are asking for answers without being offensive.:)

[DietCokeLover]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

I think that's a nicely worded note.

[KLD313]

I would under react in this situation. If it was an ongoing thing that would be different. I'd talk to the teacher and go from there. Unless she was thumping a bible during our chat, I'd be inclined to let it go. I grew up Chistian and we don't practice now (but do celebrate Christian holidays). If it were a teacher talking about another religion I would actually look at it as a teaching moment. My kid isn't going to be brain washed by one teacher for an hour in class.

Sorry I know this may not be popular and I respect other opinions.
/hillary

This describes how I feel. I grew up Catholic but I don't practice now and don't really believe. I have no objection to having my DD learn about different religions. If she came home to talk to me about it then it opens up a discussion about it. No harm in that, IMO.

[dogmom]

Honestly I would approach the teacher in person or email and ask to see the two movies she showed your DD in class since it is causing confusion at home. The content of the films would determine whether I am even interested in discussing intent with the teacher. If she would not show them to me, then it would be straight to the principle. I wouldn't spend a lot of time disussing why I needed to see the movies either.

[nfowife]

I like the note above for wording. I used to teach and honestly, I think it was a very poor choice of book/movie to show. When I taught first grade we used to talk at length about Christmas, also Hanukkah, Eid, and Kwanzaa. We did not get into discussions about Jesus or God and if students asked us direct questions we would refer them to ask their parents at home. Just not our place whatsoever! I like Tomie DePaola very much- I love his strega nona books. There are so many Christmas-related stories and folktales that she could have chosen, kwim? Why this one?

We are Jewish and living in a VERY evangelical Christian area. My Children are the only Jews at our school (though there are also a few Muslims). With my background, I didn't think there would be many issues and I did talk to my children's teachers at the beginning of the school year. I am totally fine with Christmas crafts, songs, etc. Part of being Jewish anywhere is that you are the minority and the majority celebrates Christmas. You have to get over it, kwim? But I am starting to get really tired of the constant "in your face" Christianity around here. DS's teacher sent home a note asking for $5 to make ornaments. I wrote a nice note reminding the teacher we don't celebrate Christmas (not asking to change anything) and she called me and after discussing what she was doing and what my feelings were we settled that DS would make a candleholder with the same decoration (handprint snowmen) as the ornament but the other Christmas things would be okay (I can gift those to my Christian stepfather). Not a few hours later in DS's backpack was a note asking them to bring in their favorite ornament for show and tell next week and their stocking the week after. That's just the beginning of the types of things we've encountered and while I'm trying to be easygoing after a while I am starting to just feel tired of it all.
I've gotten emails from the PTA about doing a prayer walk around the school to "pray over" each teacher and classroom, and been stopped by the PTA president in Wal-mart to be told that my daughter's "name came up on the list" yesterday at bible study and she was prayed for. I can't wait to leave this place!! I'm getting sick being the token Jews everywhere we go. I don't want to be the one to educate others. I just want to practice my religion in my home, in peace.
Sorry for the rant...... I hope you get some resolution and please post how the teacher responds. I do agree with starting with the teacher and not going to the principal first.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

i think this sounds really good. not accusatory at all (which I think is good, especially since you like this teacher), which hopefully will encourage her to provide more details and the reasoning behind showing the movies..

[vludmilla]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

I think this is a great note.

[Globetrotter]

OP, I think your note is fine.


I've gotten emails from the PTA about doing a prayer walk around the school to "pray over" each teacher and classroom, and been stopped by the PTA president in Wal-mart to be told that my daughter's "name came up on the list" yesterday at bible study and she was prayed for. I can't wait to leave this place!!

That is completely unacceptable! See, that's why it doesn't work in a predominantly Christian (esp. Evangelical) area - there is no way to include religion without those connotations, though what they are doing is over the top and has no place in a public school.

[crl]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

That sounds great to me.

Catherine

[crayonblue]

What do you all think about an email like this:


Hi Mrs. xxxx,

Over the weekend DD was asking some questions about Jesus and when we spoke further, she mentioned that the class was shown two movies about Jesus recently. Can you tell me more about what they watched and in what context they were presented? It was hard to get the details straight from DD and I don't remember my older girls watching something similar at that age.

Thanks,

xxxxxx

Perfect! Very respectful and asking questions rather than accusing.

BTW, at my DD's previous school, she learned about Hanukkah and Christmas and Kwanzaa. Because we are Christians, I was happy that the teacher was addressing Jesus' birth being celebrated and also explaining the Jewish traditions. I actually learned quite a bit from the Jewish songs and crafts DD brought home!

[Uno-Mom]

Nfowife: that's absurd. Totally absurd. I hang out with all flavors of Christians and absolutely none of us would feel it was appropriate for a public school to act that way. I'm sorry.

I think that email is perfect! It strikes just the right note, nicely done.

[pinkmomagain]

UPDATE:

So I sent off the email pretty much as I wrote last night and this was the response I got this morning:

Hi Mrs. XXXX, I t was one video that I thought was holidays around the world which we are studying I am so sorry it was my fault I didn’t watch the whole thing first. The very end had the baby Jesus healing a boy that was handicapped. I hope this didn’t cause a big problem. As I said totally my fault. If you have any more questions please contact me. Sincerely, XXXXX

Sounds like poor judgement on her part for not previewing the movie, but it was not intentional and she is regretful. Since no big damage was caused, it's not likely to be repeated, and she is an awesome teacher otherwise, I think I will let it go.

Thanks to all for your varying opinions and most of all for talking me off the crazy ledge yesterday! I really appreciate it!

[c&j04]

Glad to see a positive update, esp. since it's a teacher you appreciate!

[vludmilla]

Glad to hear this update!

[cdlamis]

Glad to see a positive update, esp. since it's a teacher you appreciate!

:yeahthat:

[Uno-Mom]

Fantastic! You handled this situation gracefully and so did the teacher.

[Fairy]

ITA, Gina. You did a really good job with this.

[sste]

I was very impressed with your email and with the response.

On the previewing it is regrettable but I honestly don't think there are enough hours in the day for teachers. My sister's district gives her something like 45 minutes per day of curriculum prep time - - which includes everything, planning, photocopying, calls to parents, etc. She spends hours at home on prep and grading. I could easily see her not having time to watch a movie before showing it to her class.

So glad it ended well. :)

[crl]

It is unfortunate she made that mistake, but I think it is very positive that she admitted it and apologized. And I think you handled it very gracefully.

Thanks for the update!
Catherine

[DietCokeLover]

It looks like the outcome of all of this was positive. Yes, in an ideal world, she should have previewed the video, but I think we all know time is short this time of year for everyone.

It sounds as if you both handled it with as much grace and respect as possible.

[almostmom]

I think your email is nice, but I would also put in there that you were a bit disturbed to have your daughter coming home telling you she learned about Jesus in school. I find the note you wrote almost too nice, and so a bit passive aggressive. My guess is the teacher thought it was fine, and the only way for her to know it wasn't is to hear that it was misinterpreted by a child (or interpreted correctly according to some - the lines regarding what is fact and what is fiction is very grey when it comes to religion - really depends on each listeners beliefs).

As an atheist myself who is dealing with my DD coming home talking about Jesus and God from her friend, I would be pretty upset if she had a teacher in public school reading books that had implications that God and Jesus are real. It's hard enough right now as it is! And my approach would be to email, or ask to see the teacher, and in a polite way, on a friendly level, tell her my concerns.

Tommie de Paolo is a great author, and my DD is doing a unit on him in her class. Who knows, maybe she's read it too! But after reading some of the amazon reviews, it seems inappropriate for non-religious school to me - a book talking about God as a given. Unless it is in the context of "These are the beliefs of Christians, next we'll read a story depicting the beliefs of XXX..."

And I can't stand that the pledge says God - it makes no sense to me and really boils my blood when I think about it. Even when I was not an atheist, but in the midst of my Jewish upbringing, it bothered me. But I just can't take that on!

[wellyes]

I personally am a bit skeptical of the whole "oops I didn't know sorry" response. Not sure how an overtly Christian video could get mixed up with a classroom-appropriate world religion education video. But it's good that she has registered your concern.

[Canna]

I personally am a bit skeptical of the whole "oops I didn't know sorry" response. Not sure how an overtly Christian video could get mixed up with a classroom-appropriate world religion education video.

I agree with this.

[mommylamb]

I think in your shoes, I would let it go, but keep my guard up for anything similar happening in the future.

I actually had a similar experience happen today. DS is at a private pre-K (so not public school yet, and I understand the difference) that is supposedly totally not religiously affiliated in anyway. When he started I had some issues because they say grace before meals (generic to God, not a grace with Jesus in it, but still a very Christian tradition), but I swallowed hard and decided that the good outweighed my concern there. I had talked to management there and was assured that this was the only religious thing they did and that they aren't affiliated, but do have a Christmas tree (as well as a menorah) at this time of year and make mention of holiday time, but not in a religious/proselytizing sense. Again, I swallow hard, but this is a private school, and it's my choice to have DS attend.

So this morning, DH dropped off DS, and when he got there the woman who watches the kids before actual preschool starts (it starts at 9 am, and we drop off for before care between 7:30-8:00) was reading the kids a Christmas story that was a Jesus story. I'm uncomfortable. I know it's not public school, but it's making me feel icky. I just don't think this is necessary or appropriate in a non Christian school when you're talking to 4 year olds. I'm all for religious literacy, but feel that's my job now, and he can learn factual information about what others believe later when he's older.

Anyway, I haven't done anything. It's just sitting with me at the moment.


ETA: I thought it was kind of funny at the Thanksgiving lunch because they said grace, and I was sitting at a table with DS and two other moms and their kids. All the kids said grace, but the 3 of us moms were sitting there looking very uncomfortable. Finally, I said "I'm an agnostic Jew" to the other moms. the other two moms looked relieved and one said "I'm nothing" and the other said "I'm an atheist." It was amusing that all 3 of us were totally squirming over grace.

[pinkmomagain]

I personally am a bit skeptical of the whole "oops I didn't know sorry" response. Not sure how an overtly Christian video could get mixed up with a classroom-appropriate world religion education video. But it's good that she has registered your concern.

I get that. But given our history with this teacher (my middle dd had her and nothing remotely like this came up) and how much our family adores her, and the fact that she's a veteran PS teacher, I'm taking her word for it and just letting it go.

In fact, my reply to her explanation was "Thanks for explaining the situation, I appreciate it." And she replied "Thanks for your understanding."

[HannaAddict]

I'm not religious but her explanation seems reasonable and like it or not, Christmas around the world is going to have some mention of Jesus. It is hard to explain why we aren't religious to our kids since they are so young. Mine learn about all sorts of beliefs at their secular private schools and I don't have a problem with being exposed that way. So glad you have a great teacher and are giving her the benefit of the doubt. :)

[Globetrotter]

Good. I think she knows now that you are paying attention and will be on guard. Since you love her otherwise, I would accept that.

[egoldber]

I have to say, the fact that she's a veteran teacher is what makes it puzzling to me. I can easily see a new-ish teacher not having the time to fully preview a video before showing it. But a veteran teacher would typically already have a holiday curriculum down. I just find it odd.

[boolady]

I have to say, the fact that she's a veteran teacher is what makes it puzzling to me. I can easily see a new-ish teacher not having the time to fully preview a video before showing it. But a veteran teacher would typically already have a holiday curriculum down. I just find it odd.

I think it's odd, too, and if she wasn't sure, she should have gone with something she knew didn't contain any religious content.

[Globetrotter]

I reread it. Did she think it was about holidays around the world? I would find that hard to believe, but it sounds like she might be trying to cover her mistake. Anyway, at least she knows you are paying attention!

[Katigre]

I personally am a bit skeptical of the whole "oops I didn't know sorry" response. Not sure how an overtly Christian video could get mixed up with a classroom-appropriate world religion education video. But it's good that she has registered your concern.
It doesn't sound like it was an overtly Christian video - it sounds like at the end there was a brief scene of Jesus healing someone as related to explaining Christmas. It's the holidays, many MANY classrooms are covering Christmas celebrations around the world and holiday celebrations around the world.


I have to say, the fact that she's a veteran teacher is what makes it puzzling to me. I can easily see a new-ish teacher not having the time to fully preview a video before showing it. But a veteran teacher would typically already have a holiday curriculum down. I just find it odd.
(Speaking as a teacher) Actually, good veteran teachers don't stick with the same thing each year - they work to vary and change up their curriculum, and also have to modernize as school curricululm requirements change. In addition, when I am short on time and going to show something to my class I do the following:

1. Read the back cover and contents of the video, make sure it is child-appropriate in topic (i.e., showing 1st graders a news documentary about the sex trade is a definite NO)
2. Skim reviews to see if anything objectionable pops up in comments
3. Watch the first part of the video to get a feel for how it handles the topic - you can tell a lot about a children's movie from the first 5-10 minutes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am truly shocked at how upset people are about this - she didn't tell the kids to believe in Jesus or they would burn in hell. She showed a children's video that featured a person from a prominent religion doing something that is kind and not harmful (healing someone who is hurt). Furthermore, the topic was relevant to the curriculum topic 'learning about cultural holidays.'

Her response was prompt and communicated well with the parent, I truly don't understand what else people are wanting her to do. Grovel?

[vludmilla]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am truly shocked at how upset people are about this - she didn't tell the kids to believe in Jesus or they would burn in hell. She showed a children's video that featured a person from a prominent religion doing something that is kind and not harmful (healing someone who is hurt). Furthermore, the topic was relevant to the curriculum topic 'learning about cultural holidays.'

Her response was prompt and communicated well with the parent, I truly don't understand what else people are wanting her to do. Grovel?

:yeahthat: to your entire post. You said what I have been thinking. The OP handled the situation very nicely. I have been, however, shocked by some of the responses on this thread and I am an atheist so if anyone is going to be offended, I should be.

[swissair81]

I am truly shocked at how upset people are about this - she didn't tell the kids to believe in Jesus or they would burn in hell. She showed a children's video that featured a person from a prominent religion doing something that is kind and not harmful (healing someone who is hurt). Furthermore, the topic was relevant to the curriculum topic 'learning about cultural holidays.'

I'll admit that I would be pretty upset. I don't send my kids to public school, because I want them to learn Jewish values at school- not Christian, any other religion, or nothing. I can see why families who either believe in nothing or who believe that Jesus is an important figure in another religion might be upset. If you want your child learning Christianity in school, please send them to a religious private school. Or send them to a supplementary school affiliated with your church. There are so many children with so many varied beliefs, that there is really no reason to be teaching anything at all about it to children in public school.

[wellyes]

'Jesus heals handicapped boy' - it's not what you'd expect to see in a survey of world religions that included Christianity. It's not a retelling of a Bible story that I can think of (closest I can come up with is Jesus healing a man's blindness with mud?). It's not Christmas-related at all. So, it's an odd and inappropriate choice for a classroom. Even the teacher acknowledged that.

[kristenk]

'Jesus heals handicapped boy' - it's not what you'd expect to see in a survey of world religions that included Christianity.

I found this about Tomie de Paola's Clown of God:
THE CLOWN OF GOD takes place in the Italian
town of Sorrento, where a young boy begs for
bread and juggles for pleasure. When a group of
wandering entertainers comes to the boy’s town,
the boy begs to be included in the show as a juggler.
Soon the boy is introducing the show with
his juggling and pleasing crowds wherever he performs.
Time goes on and the boy grows older. At one
point in his travels, the young juggler meets two
brothers of a religious order who tell him that his
work is the work of God. As the juggler, now
elderly, decides to "go home" by journeying to the
monastery where he can live out his days. Once
there, he arrives in time for the celebration of the
birthday of the Christ child. As a gift, the juggler
performs for the child, who is seen in a picture on
the lap of his mother. The child appears sad to the
juggler and the juggler determines to make him
happy. When the juggler finishes his performance,
his heart stops beating. The brothers who come
and find him discover that the Christ child is now
pictured with a smiling face, holding one of the
juggler’s golden balls.

I've only read Clown of God once and didn't remember that it had anything to do with Christmas. If it was part of an video about world religions/celebrations, I find it sort of an odd thing to include. I do wonder what the video was, but I don't doubt that the teacher thought it was an overview of different celebrations.

OP, I'm glad you emailed and got a good response from the teacher! If you ever find out the name of the video, let us know. I'm really curious now. :)

[almostamom]

:yeahthat: to your entire post. You said what I have been thinking. The OP handled the situation very nicely. I have been, however, shocked by some of the responses on this thread and I am an atheist so if anyone is going to be offended, I should be.

:yeahthat: to this post and Katigre's post.

[ahisma]

'Jesus heals handicapped boy' - it's not what you'd expect to see in a survey of world religions that included Christianity. It's not a retelling of a Bible story that I can think of (closest I can come up with is Jesus healing a man's blindness with mud?). It's not Christmas-related at all. So, it's an odd and inappropriate choice for a classroom. Even the teacher acknowledged that.

I agree with this completely. The teacher made a mistake. Mistakes happen. OP was, IMO, understandably concerned. Personally, I see the video as inappropriate in a public school setting, particularly early elementary. Even as someone whose children attend a Christian Sunday school, I would be concerned about the content here (Jesus healing the handicapped boy).

I think the teacher's response was appropriate and professional. She acknowledged the mistake and the concern and provided assurance that it was not something that would be ongoing. Sounds great to me!

[pinkmomagain]

I found this about Tomie de Paola's Clown of God:
THE CLOWN OF GOD takes place in the Italian
town of Sorrento, where a young boy begs for
bread and juggles for pleasure. When a group of
wandering entertainers comes to the boy’s town,
the boy begs to be included in the show as a juggler.
Soon the boy is introducing the show with
his juggling and pleasing crowds wherever he performs.
Time goes on and the boy grows older. At one
point in his travels, the young juggler meets two
brothers of a religious order who tell him that his
work is the work of God. As the juggler, now
elderly, decides to "go home" by journeying to the
monastery where he can live out his days. Once
there, he arrives in time for the celebration of the
birthday of the Christ child. As a gift, the juggler
performs for the child, who is seen in a picture on
the lap of his mother. The child appears sad to the
juggler and the juggler determines to make him
happy. When the juggler finishes his performance,
his heart stops beating. The brothers who come
and find him discover that the Christ child is now
pictured with a smiling face, holding one of the
juggler’s golden balls.

I've only read Clown of God once and didn't remember that it had anything to do with Christmas. If it was part of an video about world religions/celebrations, I find it sort of an odd thing to include. I do wonder what the video was, but I don't doubt that the teacher thought it was an overview of different celebrations.

OP, I'm glad you emailed and got a good response from the teacher! If you ever find out the name of the video, let us know. I'm really curious now. :)

I think the book is based on a French folktale from what I've read. I think it's a bizarre choice for a story for 1st graders. Just weird separate from the religious aspect...the person dying and all I know made an impression on my sensitive 6yo who is trying to make sense of/process the concept of death in general.

As for those who are shocked by the responses in this thread, it just goes to show how sensitive a topic religion is and how careful the public schools need to be.