Madonna Badger tragedy

[artvandalay]

As much as I want, I cannot get this horrible story out of my thoughts. I cannot imagine what this poor woman is going through right now. I have read a few news articles about what happened, and the story of the grandfather's last actions to try and save his grandchildren are so incredibly heartbreaking.

Can someone answer a question? I don't have a wood burning fireplace (only gas) so I don't quite understand -why would you remove the embers from a fireplace after a fire? I read the boyfriend/GC moved them to the mudroom, and I can't figure out why someone would do this. This isn't common practice, correct?

My prayers go out to this poor family.

[KLD313]

Idk the answer to your question but the story is all over the news here. I grew up in the next town over, it is so sad. I cannot even imagine.

I have a fireplace and we have never taken the embers out.

[AnnieW625]

This was the first I had heard of the story, it must not be big news here on the west coast as Badger isn't a Hollywood or west coast A lister. We only move embers from a fire place once they are cooled when a fire place is cleaned, but even then the ash is still hot do you have to be very careful. During the winter my parents clean theirs about once a week or so. They have a gas wood burning unit.

I wonder why they didn't have any ladders to get out from the windows since it was multi story home, but in a whole such a sad story.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I hadn't heard of this story yet..just googled it..wow, what an incredibly, all-around tragic story. :( I cannot even begin to imagine what she must be going through..losing her children and her parents at once in that way...how unbelievably horrible.

And OP, i was wondering the same thing (and I too have never had a wood fireplace either, so i don't know).

About ladders for the 2nd floor, I didn't think of that. We have a 2 story home but we don't have ladders for the 2nd floor :bag...I never worried too much bc all the bedrooms that are being used are on the first floor, and we spend 90% of our time on the first floor. But now after reading this, I think I will go buy some. You can never be too careful.

The article I read said there were no smoke detectors/alarms installed yet..maybe bc the place was being renovated? Whatever the case, what a tragic story. :(

[wellyes]

For those who don't wish to google (possible trigger), this is the story of the 5 people killed in a housefire Christmas day. A woman and her boyfriend escaped the fire, but her 3 young daughters and elderly parents were killed. That is such a nightmare for families. She thought they were in a spot to be rescued when she got out, but that is not how it worked out. It is such a sad story for all involved.


We only move embers from a fire place once they are cooled when a fire place is cleaned, but even then the ash is still hot do you have to be very careful. During the winter my parents clean theirs about once a week or so. They have a gas wood burning unit.
Yes, I only clean my fireplace once a week, never on the same day/night as a fire.

[TxCat]

As much as I want, I cannot get this horrible story out of my thoughts.

Exactly how I feel. Just an awful, heartbreaking story.

It made me think of a recommendation our professional childproofer made (yes, DH and I wussed out and contracted it out to someone else) - since we live in a 3-story house, he recommended a rope/plastic ladder and basically an oversized laundry bag that you could use to put a baby/toddler in, clip it to the ladder and use it to escape via a window. I thought it was a waste but this case makes me rethink that.

[kboyle]

we have a wood burning furnace (outdoor) and dh said that there's no real reason to take out the embers while it is still running, much less keep it INSIDE or near the house.

[ahisma]

I have had one in a house I lived in in the past, but it's been a long time. I do recall that we took out the embers after they have cooled and STILL put them in a metal container and took them out to the fire pit.

I'm guessing that he just really didn't know how to manage it. There are a lot of things like that you just don't learn growing up in an urban region.

[wendibird22]

It's been all over the news here in NY. The 2 things that really stick out for me is the lack of working smoke detectors (especially in such an expensive home) and the fact that today's construction and furnishings (being mostly man made materials) can become an inferno in 3mins. All the news reports are saying you have 3 min to get out of your house these days because things like children's plastic toys (like FP learning house and cozy coupe they used as examples) melt into liquid fuel.

DH and I realized the need for ladders. But, the sad thing is with 2 kids, 4 and 2, neither would be able to open a window or use a ladder on their own. So while yes helpful to have for us to assist them, we'd have to be sure that we could get to both kids w/in that 3mins. Scary thought.

[amldaley]

I can not speak to why he would bag up the embers, but the reason they did not have smoke detectors, ladders, etc is because the house was undergoing extensive renovations. Not an excuse IMO, but it is the reason that has been repeatedly given. The renovations also lead to the demise of those who perished as they could not get quickly, safely and easily from the third floor as it was the 2nd floor being worked on.

[plusbellelavie]

Such a tragic preventable accident! My heart just break for this woman to lose her entire family in such a horrific way!

DS1 has been following this story (He is 11.5) for some reason this has struck a cord for him (he happen to see the story first when he was on the computer)...he has been asking a lot of questions on why the log was removed and the fire alarm(s) etc. (He checked that ours where working...) He is very worried for the mother and how she must be doing and wondering what we could do for her...I told him just to pray for her and send her positive thoughts because she was going to need them.

Lots of P&PT for Ms. Badger, her family and their friends.

Just so heartbreaking!!

[spunkybaby]

This story is so heartbreaking--I have been following it as well. That poor woman--I cannot imagine what she is going through. Honestly, I would have rather died in the fire as well than survived to learn that my parents and children had perished. :(

[HannaAddict]

I'm in Seattle and it is on the news and I first saw it the minute I went online. Truly awful and I have no idea why they would take hot embers out, totally something I knew not to do from Brownies. We have had fireplaces and never cleaned them out that way, only once in awhile and never ever when there was any trace of a fire (like days or weeks after a fire).

[artvandalay]

DS1 has been following this story (He is 11.5) for some reason this has struck a cord for him (he happen to see the story first when he was on the computer)...he has been asking a lot of questions on why the log was removed and the fire alarm(s) etc. (He checked that ours where working...) He is very worried for the mother and how she must be doing and wondering what we could do for her...I told him just to pray for her and send her positive thoughts because she was going to need them.



Oh no, I'm really sorry your son has been so affected by this story. I hope in a few days he will be able to put it behind him.

It is truly one of the saddest things I have ever read.

[maestramommy]

We have a wood burning fireplace, and when we used it we pretty much left it all night, but it was shielded from the room by a screen, or doors.

Now that we have a stove insert, Dh cleans out the ashes every morning before starting a new fire. And the ashes are still very hot. You can actually ignite them accidentally if you aren't careful. Our ashes are stored in a metal can with a locking lid, on the hearth.

I wonder if the house's smoke alarms were not functioning. I couldn't understand how the fire managed to get so out of control without anyone being aware. Still, last fall a friend's family lost their house in a fire. They were all home, but awake. The husband was watching TV when he smelled smoke. He followed it to the kitchen which I believe was already burning. Right then all the smoke alarms went off, he yelled upstairs to his wife who was with their 4 kids. Both parents escape the house with their kids from different doors, but the entire house was completely destroyed in a very short time.

Dh installed smoke and carbon monoxide alarms in every room and hallway in our house except the kitchen. Even the basement. He checks them every month with the kids.

[HIU8]

This is a very sad sad story.

I do not use my wood burning fireplace (we did not retrofit for gas). The ppl living directly behind me burned down one entire side of their house when they put the hot embers from a fire in a plastic bag in a plastic bucket. Neighbor in front of me came running b/c there was so much smoke she thought it was my house on fire, and she was trying to get us out.

[Jo..]

Now that we have a stove insert, Dh cleans out the ashes every morning before starting a new fire. And the ashes are still very hot.

We grew up with a house heated primarily by two wood stoves and a fireplace. In the AM we scooped out the (still VERY HOT) ashes and spread them on our driveway. I think they helped to melt the snow and provide traction. I'll have to ask my Mom why we did that. I know with the amount of wood we burned, everything HAD to be cleaned out daily, and that meant scooping out hot ash.

My feeling is that the guy was just clueless. Being clueless and/or careless about something so dangerous is horrible.

I have such a paranoia about my kids not being able to get out in a fire that they still sleep in my bedroom at ages 3 and 5. THIS is my very worst nightmare. How awful. :(

[AngB]

Exactly how I feel. Just an awful, heartbreaking story.

It made me think of a recommendation our professional childproofer made (yes, DH and I wussed out and contracted it out to someone else) - since we live in a 3-story house, he recommended a rope/plastic ladder and basically an oversized laundry bag that you could use to put a baby/toddler in, clip it to the ladder and use it to escape via a window. I thought it was a waste but this case makes me rethink that.

Sorry to hijack this discussion but I didn't realize you could pay someone to childproof. Glad you mentioned it because that definitely sounds appealing, I will have to look into this.

[twowhat?]

This is so horrible I can't even imagine...our girls sleep upstairs and wouldn't be physically able to open the windows and get down a ladder. We would definitely be dependent on smoke detectors in order for us to be able to get up there and get them out in a fire.

This is a good reminder to look into getting those ladders for upstairs asap. I am glad that at least I know the smoke detectors are all in working order since we just bought this house and they were part of the inspection.

What a horrible, horrible tragedy for everyone involved. Ugh.

[AngB]

This story is so sad.

Maybe the fireplace was new with the renovations? I've never lived in a home with a fireplace so I wouldn't know about dscarding the ashes safely (although I like to think I'd not do anything dangerous.)

[maestramommy]

We have a ladder, it's under Dora's bed. But at this point even she is too young to set it up herself. So we are completely dependent on smoke alarms. But Dh and I have agreed we need to start doing fire drills. That is something all of them are old enough to understand. So we will do that this weekend.

I think it's important to remember that this tragedy was preventable, but it was also not any one thing that led to its conclusion. I think the smoke alarms was the biggest factor.

[janine]

I can not speak to why he would bag up the embers, but the reason they did not have smoke detectors, ladders, etc is because the house was undergoing extensive renovations. Not an excuse IMO, but it is the reason that has been repeatedly given. The renovations also lead to the demise of those who perished as they could not get quickly, safely and easily from the third floor as it was the 2nd floor being worked on.

This is an awful, tragic story. But clearly alot more to be learned/investigated. From what I read/saw in the news conference the male acquaintance was also the contractor for the renovation - how on earth he didn't think smoke detectors might be a necessity (they were living in the house over a year) and/or that putting warm embers in a bag just outside the house was dangerous at 3 in the morning makes this all seem a bit suspicious. Sorry to be the cynic in the room, but I hope the investigators do get the bottom of it.

[dowlinal]

This is an awful, tragic story. But clearly alot more to be learned/investigated. From what I read/saw in the news conference the male acquaintance was also the contractor for the renovation - how on earth he didn't think smoke detectors might be a necessity (they were living in the house over a year) and/or that putting warm embers in a bag just outside the house was dangerous at 3 in the morning makes this all seem a bit suspicious. Sorry to be the cynic in the room, but I hope the investigators do get the bottom of it.


I've thought the same thing since the details came out. There were smoke detectors in the house, but they were the type that are wired into the electric and they weren't connected so it's not clear if the family knew that they weren't working, but the acquaintance had to know. I just can't wrap my mind around anyone, nevermind a major contractor, putting embers from a fire that was just burning into a paper bag and going to bed. I've never had a fireplace and that just seems like common sense. I'm even suspicious of his claim that he had tried to lead two of the girls to safety but the girls panicked when they got to the second floor and ran away from him.