Sales clerk reprimanded my DD (it worked sort of)

[mom2binsd]

I was returning something at Kohl's not a big line, so no big rush/craziness.

I had two items to return, had both receipts, no complications, DD who is 8, kept asking me if she and DS could go ride on the horse rides, I told her twice, please wait a minute until mommy is finished here, I can't talk to you and the store clerk at the same time...after her second interruption the sales clerk said to DD "you need to wait until mom is done, she can't do two things at once", she was just abrasive enough that DD just cowered....of course, DD did stop talking/interrupting.

DD was in tears as we walked away, I explained to her that she had not been listening and that the lady was just repeating what I had said and hopefully she learned a lesson, but it's one thing if I say something to upset her, another when it's a stranger.

I'm not sure how I feel about store staff/strangers saying anything like this...I have no issue if the kids were climbing on fixtures/leaving toys all over the place etc, something like "hey kids can you stay off the beds please"....

I do remember this is the same clerk a few months ago when I was returning something and had two items to purchase she said once she had done the return that I need to go over to one of the "purchase only" checkouts, when I asked why I needed to she wasn't super friendly, and said well, this is only for returns over here....but then grudgingly let me make my purchases. So given what I've seen of this clerk I think she has no problem talking to adults or kids in a less than friendly manner.

[infomama]

I am not a fan of strangers stepping in on my motherly duties but I think this was OK. It sounded like she was trying to help a bit instead of outright scold which I would have had a major problem with. That being said, if her tone was crossed my line I would have an entirely different opinion on this.
Of course....I *can* do two things at once but that's another story ;)

[lalasmama]

I'm kind of torn. I'd like to say it's no big deal, and like the PP it would depend on the tone used. However, I've had someone try to "correct" DD recently, with me there, and it hit more of a nerve than I expected.

Around Thanksgiving time, we went to a visit with DD's dietician, and DD was being a stinker. She had been given red dye at the nanny's, and was missing her school routine, and, basically, she was all out of sorts, and her behavior showed it--taking rude, demanding, refusing to pay attention to personal space, interrupting continually. I was at my wits end. When this happens, she likes to stick her tongue out at people, and has gotten in trouble for it... So she started to stick it "out" in her cheek. She glares at you, and her cheek gets a "point" to it. She knows it's not allowed, because of the intent of what she's doing. So, the dietician said, "Oh, DD, is your tongue having a hard time behaving? Those darn tongues!" and I looked at the dietician, and said something akin to "Excuse me, her TONGUE is not at fault here, she is making a naughty choice, it's not your call, and you telling her that her tongue is being naughty and her tongue is going to get in trouble isn't appropriate, because YOU ARE WRONG. Her WHOLE self is getting in trouble, because she is CHOOSING to do something she knows is against the rules." The dietician was shocked. I was a little shocked at my outburst as well :bag But it wasn't the first time she had taken DD into conversations that I didn't like/feel appropriate ("Oh, DD, you don't celebrate Halloween? I'm sorry! Does that make you sad?" "DD, you may choose what flavor of shake you want: Berry, strawberry, chocolate, or vanilla." DD says she can't have berry and strawberry because of her sensitivities, and dietician tells her it's okay "just this once". Ummm, NO IT'S NOT!)....

So, after the above example, I've become much more aware of people correcting DD, and a LOT more sensitive to it. IMO, it's not appropriate for a stranger to make a call about my child's behavior; ESPECIALLY when it upsets my child. I understand a "please don't climb on the display" kind of comment, but that's about where my line is.

[indigo99]

As you told DD, she was just repeating what you had already said. The fact that it came from someone else made DD actually listen, but I don't think that the lady was out of line given that she already heard you tell DD the same thing. It depends on how you felt about it in the situation though. Was she trying to help (knowing that DD was more likely to listen to her than you) or being mean?

[twowhat?]

I think it would hit a nerve for any stranger to discipline my own children that way...but in this case it worked (and probably will make a lasting impression on her!). So while I might be irked, I'd definitely take advantage of it and turn it into a teachable moment for your DD like you did!

[mikala]

I don't think it would bother me since she was repeating the same thing you had just said. I've had strangers make similar comments when my much younger child was misbehaving. Sometimes he'll listen to a completely new voice more and I'm grateful for the interference because it's obvious my words weren't getting through. It seems to go back to the "it takes a village" mentality for raising children.

[mom2binsd]

I agree, that it will have a lasting impression on DD...and if I hadn't already had the negative interaction with the same clerk I wouldn't have thought twice about it, but I kind of think this is one of those adults that has little patience with kids/people...I guess just seeing DD tear up made me think twice....which was I think because DD realized that her behavior was out of line...makes me think I'm not a very effective parent though.

[Kymberley]

Sorry, wrong thread!

[ahisma]

I'd be irked, but probably wouldn't say anything. If someone that I had an existing relationship with backed me up like that it likely would not bother me. It seems bold that a total stranger took that step, but some people just don't seem to really have boundaries.

[AngelaS]

I would be irked, but with my child, not the clerk. I expect my girls to obey the first time I tell them to do something and if someone else had to tell them the very.same.thing I had just told them? They would be in big trouble!

[blisstwins]

For me it would depend on her tone. If it sounded like she was backing me up and my child learned a lesson that would be fine. If she sounded like she thought my child was an out of control brat I would be angry. I think it is good your daughter reacted as she did (in my book in means you are doing a good job) and I think that your daughter's behavior was perfectly normal (not wildly out of control) in the first place. What I am saying is that the whole thing seems pretty minor and I would not be upset or think too much about it.

[MamaMolly]

I looked at the dietician, and said something akin to "Excuse me, her TONGUE is not at fault here, she is making a naughty choice, it's not your call, and you telling her that her tongue is being naughty and her tongue is going to get in trouble isn't appropriate, because YOU ARE WRONG. Her WHOLE self is getting in trouble, because she is CHOOSING to do something she knows is against the rules." The dietician was shocked. I was a little shocked at my outburst as well :bag

:bowdown: Mimi, you are my hero. I love the way you parent!!!!

OP: I can see how it might have crossed the line, though for me and my DD I'd have been OK with it. I wouldn't have liked it if her feelings were hurt, but I would probably have appreciated the support of another grown up. It sure beats deep sighs and stink eye!

[MamaMolly]

I agree, that it will have a lasting impression on DD...and if I hadn't already had the negative interaction with the same clerk I wouldn't have thought twice about it, but I kind of think this is one of those adults that has little patience with kids/people...I guess just seeing DD tear up made me think twice....which was I think because DD realized that her behavior was out of line...makes me think I'm not a very effective parent though.

No, no, no. You are a great mom! Effective parenting means she gets it when she is called out on her behavior.

[wellyes]

I think that seeing other adults reinforcing my parenting directives is part of effective parenting. I know from family members who work with kids that parenting in a vacuum (where only parents are allowed to speak to their kids in any meaningful way) can produce really ill-mannered kids. Who often regard other adults as peers. Or servants.

I think the big exception is that parents of special-needs kids can get so frustrated when their very carefully honed techniques are interfered with - and since SN aren't always visible, it is tough to recognize those circumstances and respect those boundaries. But in general, I prefer a community where adults are free to talk to other kids to back up a parental order or enforce really basic concepts and behaviors.

[chiisai]

I don't think it would bother me since she was repeating the same thing you had just said. I've had strangers make similar comments when my much younger child was misbehaving. Sometimes he'll listen to a completely new voice more and I'm grateful for the interference because it's obvious my words weren't getting through. It seems to go back to the "it takes a village" mentality for raising children.

In this situation, I would be fine with it. I was thinking what mikala posted about the village.

[JTsMom]

I think the big exception is that parents of special-needs kids can get so frustrated when their very carefully honed techniques are interfered with - and since SN aren't always visible, it is tough to recognize those circumstances and respect those boundaries. But in general, I prefer a community where adults are free to talk to other kids to back up a parental order or enforce really basic concepts and behaviors.

This is me. DS1's behavior is extreme at times, and taking him out anywhere is like walking on a tightrope. When someone jumps in and tries to help or correct, it usually makes things much worse, and something that I could have fixed in 30 seconds can quickly turn into something that necessitates us going straight home. Nobody would guess that DS1 is SN just by looking at him, so some people just assume he's a brat. It's brought me to tears on more than one occasion.

I always try to assume positive intent, but for the most part, I think strangers should just let the parent do the parenting whenever possible, if it's not something like climbing on a store display, or an obvious case of the parent not paying any attention or something. In OP's case, she was obviously clued in and handling the situation in a way she felt was appropriate. I think the sales clerk stepping in makes it seem like she was the one with the final say, and that what Mom was saying was being trumped, even though it was the same message.

[lucybabymamma]

In this situation, I would be fine with it. I was thinking what mikala posted about the village.


Totally agree, and also DD actions were impacting the cashier, too. Beginning to look at a situation from another person's perspective (in this case the cashier who was also be interrupted), is higher-level thinking, so to me, this was a great learning opportunity (seeing as you were there and her tone was firm but not mean).

[JTsMom]

I had to come back and add a link that just popped up on my FB newsfeed b/c it is so timely. Not exactly like the OP's situation, of course, but it relates to what I said about SN kids.
http://flappinessis.com/2011/12/28/dear-shopper-staring-at-my-child-having-a-meltdown-in-the-grocery-store/

[SnuggleBuggles]

I get really, really sensitive to people embarrassing me or my kids. That reprimand would embarrass the heck out of me and would make things far worse. It would make me feel like I was being called out as a bad parent and/ or that I have badly behaved kids. Even if they were badly behaved, unless they were really impacting the other person in a major, major way, I would want them to zip it. It is not their place. You never know too if the parent is unstable and could snap and lash out at their kids as soon as they are out of a public situation.

[LMPC]

Totally agree, and also DD actions were impacting the cashier, too. Beginning to look at a situation from another person's perspective (in this case the cashier who was also be interrupted), is higher-level thinking, so to me, this was a great learning opportunity (seeing as you were there and her tone was firm but not mean).

This is me too. If my DD was embarrassed by it, I would remind her that we are in charge of our emotions and it's not other people that "make" us feel a certain way.

[LMPC]

No, no, no. You are a great mom! Effective parenting means she gets it when she is called out on her behavior.

Yup! My guess is she realized she was acting inappropriately and that's why she was embarrassed. Self awareness is a good thing to have instilled in her!! :applause:

[JustMe]

I am very sensitive to boundaries, and I do think this just made it into the category of being okay. As has been said, she was repeating what you said, so it was in line with your parenting, and probably meant to back you up. I certainly don't think you are a bad parent. Many kids just don't do what their parents ask them to the first time, no matter how good the parenting is.

What is not okay with me is when people say something that is really out of line with how I parent the dcs (like threats, calling them bad kids, or OTOH the situation Mimi described---something that just wouldnt make sense with the way that I parent). I also experience that my kids sometimes to have atypical needs, and it is difficult when people make assumptions about what they or I need to be doing differently.

Interestingly enough, with ds especially, this tends to come up in the opposite way---people rushing in to "rescue him" when he is crying. An example is recently he had just had a huge tantrum when we were on a walk. I don't remember what it was about or what made it stop, but we were able to resume walking, with him walking behind dd and I with his jacket half off by his choice(it was not too cold of a day). It was what he needed to feel a little bit of control. He was still crying a little, but was almost calmed down. A woman stopped and said "oh honey, do you want me to help you put your jacket on". As if somehow ds just needed help putting his jacket on and I failed to see this? If only it was that easy. Since I was still a little off from ds' huge tantrum, I was able to say "No thank you. If he wanted help, I would help him. That is not the issue. Please don't talk to him". Would not have been able to say this under normal circumstances, but my being out of sorts actually helped here. I also wanted to add, you know nothing about ds' history, and you really should think about that kind of thing before you go around talking to kids as if their parents were not there. Anyway, it may not sound that bad but this kind of stuff just happens all of the time to us and is not good for ds' needs in many ways.

[wellyes]

I always try to assume positive intent, but for the most part, I think strangers should just let the parent do the parenting whenever possible, if it's not something like climbing on a store display, or an obvious case of the parent not paying any attention or something. In OP's case, she was obviously clued in and handling the situation in a way she felt was appropriate. I think the sales clerk stepping in makes it seem like she was the one with the final say, and that what Mom was saying was being trumped, even though it was the same message.

What about daycare? I have taught my daughter to respect the teachers/caretakers at her daycare, her preschool, the gym, camp, Sunday school. Those are all cases where other adults have to exert authority and sometimes discipline kids. If the parent is there, the caretakers obviously step aside or take a much smaller role. But there are times when -- for many kids -- it is important to know to listen to other grownups. Even strangers (it is not always the same teachers at the gym or Sunday school). It is important to me that DD recognize other adults as partners of MINE, not barriers to her enjoyment.

A cousin of mine works at a gym daycare, and she tells me that kids who aren't socialized to recognize any authority but their own parents tend to be wild and disrespectful. That influences my thinking a bit on this.

Obviously it is totally, totally different with SN kids. I am so sorry for any parent who has regularly has to deal with discipline issues in public. I've only have had to deal with a couple meltdowns, and I know how emotionally and phsyically exhausting it is. It's really hard.

[SnuggleBuggles]

What about daycare? I have taught my daughter to respect the teachers/caretakers at her daycare, her preschool, the gym, camp, Sunday school. Those are all cases where other adults have to exert authority and sometimes discipline kids. If the parent is there, the caretakers obviously step aside or take a much smaller role. But there are times when -- for many kids -- it is important to know to listen to other grownups. Even strangers (it is not always the same teachers at the gym or Sunday school). It is important to me that DD recognize other adults as partners of MINE, not barriers to her enjoyment.

A cousin of mine works at a gym daycare, and she tells me that kids who aren't socialized to recognize any authority but their own parents tend to be wild and disrespectful. That influences my thinking a bit on this.

Obviously it is totally, totally different with SN kids. I am so sorry for any parent who has regularly has to deal with discipline issues in public. I've only have had to deal with a couple meltdowns, and I know how emotionally and phsyically exhausting it is. It's really hard.


My kids are told that when we are not there that X is in charge and to listen. But, if I am there, I am in charge.

[JTsMom]

My kids are told that when we are not there that X is in charge and to listen. But, if I am there, I am in charge.
:yeahthat:

I certainly expect DS1 to respect and obey whoever is in charge to the best of his ability (within reason, of course), and I would likely not have said anything to him, or in front of him, about the store clerk in this scenario, but I would still be frustrated with it happening. I avoid situations where leaving him with a stranger is necessary, but if I had to do it, I would try to give that person a rundown of his issues before I left. A store clerk, or a random passerby wouldn't have that background. Although we HS, we do have situations where another adult is in charge, or where we are in someone else's home, where a friend or family member might have to correct him, but that's more the exception to the rule.

Of course, we don't live in a vacuum, and these things are going to crop up from time to time, so I try to use them as teachable moments, and just carry on the best we can.

[mypa]

I think that seeing other adults reinforcing my parenting directives is part of effective parenting. I know from family members who work with kids that parenting in a vacuum (where only parents are allowed to speak to their kids in any meaningful way) can produce really ill-mannered kids. Who often regard other adults as peers. Or servants.

I think the big exception is that parents of special-needs kids can get so frustrated when their very carefully honed techniques are interfered with - and since SN aren't always visible, it is tough to recognize those circumstances and respect those boundaries. But in general, I prefer a community where adults are free to talk to other kids to back up a parental order or enforce really basic concepts and behaviors.

In the OP's particular case I agree w/ this. In fact, I have asked sales clerks to step in and help repeat what I have said, so far they have all spoken nicely to my kids.

But there are definite cases where it is inappropriate for strangers to step in.

[ha98ed14]

I haven't read the replies, but in theory, I would be fine with this situation provided that the tone was not nasty. Everything is in the tone, but her words, if verbatim, address the issue very appropriately. The clerk was addressing your DD's behavior that was making it difficult for her, the clerk, to do her job. She was not randomly calling out DD on something unrelated. Your DD's repeated interruptions took your time and attention away from the task at hand, which wastes the clerk's time. Yes, she is there to wait on you, but DD was interfering with her ability to do that. DD is 8 y.o.; that's old enough to wait unless there are other factors at play (ADHD?). If DD was 4 y.o., I would see this very differently. I understand the Mamabear response, but given the circumstances, I would back the clerk and tell DD exactly what you did, "The clerk was just repeating to you what I had already said."

[TwinFoxes]

Interestingly enough, with ds especially, this tends to come up in the opposite way---people rushing in to "rescue him" when he is crying. An example is recently he had just had a huge tantrum when we were on a walk. I don't remember what it was about or what made it stop, but we were able to resume walking, with him walking behind dd and I with his jacket half off by his choice(it was not too cold of a day). It was what he needed to feel a little bit of control. He was still crying a little, but was almost calmed down. A woman stopped and said "oh honey, do you want me to help you put your jacket on". As if somehow ds just needed help putting his jacket on and I failed to see this? If only it was that easy. Since I was still a little off from ds' huge tantrum, I was able to say "No thank you. If he wanted help, I would help him. That is not the issue. Please don't talk to him". Would not have been able to say this under normal circumstances, but my being out of sorts actually helped here. I also wanted to add, you know nothing about ds' history, and you really should think about that kind of thing before you go around talking to kids as if their parents were not there. Anyway, it may not sound that bad but this kind of stuff just happens all of the time to us and is not good for ds' needs in many ways.

For some reason, of the examples posted, this is the one that bugs me the most. I think it's the passive aggressive "I'll show the mom what she should be doing" nature. Good for you for not letting her get away with it.

[maestramommy]

I would be irked, but with my child, not the clerk. I expect my girls to obey the first time I tell them to do something and if someone else had to tell them the very.same.thing I had just told them? They would be in big trouble!
:yeahthat: Frankly, I'd be grateful. Because if my kids had been that trying while in a public place (they usually aren't) they need to know other people besides myself will not tolerated it. Now I can understand why your DD was in tears. Because something similar happened with Arwyn at the Target a couple of years ago. But it was more pre-emptive. Some older guy at the Target told her she had to sit down in the cart if she didn't want to be in the basket. I thought Arwyn was going to burst into tears right there, but she held it in. All I said was, "you hear that Arwyn, you need to always sit down." Now this guy was grouchier than usual, and if he kept on going I'd have turn on HIM. But he saw I was handling it and left. I don't know if he'd seen an accident recently because I've never had that happen before (it's Target, for pete's sake). But there's always one!

[g-mama]

I'm okay with it. This happened to us at some store a couple of years ago. My oldest ds kept trying to talk to me and ask me questions while I was paying and the clerk spoke to him about it. Don't remember the exact details but ds was very embarrassed. He should have been - he was like 9 years old. It definitely stuck more with him than when I said it to him and I was glad for the backup.

[o_mom]

I'm okay with it. This happened to us at some store a couple of years ago. My oldest ds kept trying to talk to me and ask me questions while I was paying and the clerk spoke to him about it. Don't remember the exact details but ds was very embarrassed. He should have been - he was like 9 years old. It definitely stuck more with him than when I said it to him and I was glad for the backup.

I'm OK with it as well. We don't live in a bubble and at age 8, they are old enough to interact with 'the public' and get the natural consequences of being rude. I actually appreciate when people point out to my kids that their behavior affects those around them. For some reason, me telling them this eleventy-million times a day doesn't seem to get the point across as easily as one comment from a stranger. Even DS3 who has SN I am fine with that. Now if they were rude or nasty or blamed it on bad parenting... yeah, not cool.

OTOH... drives me nuts when someone lets my kids get away with murder. Just last week we were somewhere and DS3 was pushing in front of someone. I corrected him and moved him back and the person then says "Oh, that's OK". NO, it's not OK... that's why I told him it wasn't!