Is this the "new" math that you hear about?

[lovin2shop]

My DS is currently learning multiplication tables in 3rd grade. I remember being bored to tears with the rote memorization, but I must say that it worked. My DS is learning the tables with tricks instead of being required to memorize. So, for the 2's & 3's, they sing a song for example. For the 6's and 9's, they use their fingers with a counting trick. I'm quite perplexed. At a certain point, you just need to know that 6x8=48 and not have to stick your hands up in the air. They are all failing at the 6's and 9 test, because the tests are timed and they can't do the trick fast enough. This seems to be a terrible way of learning a fundamental that will be necessary later on down the road when they are in higher level math classes. Am I missing something here?

As much as I hate the idea, I'll be buying a set a flash cards. I much prefer to spend any time spent on at home enrichment on more interesting tasks, but I just can't let this go. Also, I've heard recently from parents of some of DS's friends that are all of a sudden having trouble with reading. They have been going to after school tutoring, and both have been told that they were missing out on some of the key phonics fundamentals, even though they always were doing well in the previous grades. I guess I'm putting together now why this kind of thing happens...

[justlearning]

I don't know if that's part of the "new math" or not, but what I can say is that my son's school uses Saxon math (which I've seen criticized on here sometimes due to the emphasis on drills) and everyone in DS's class in 2nd grade knew their multiplication tables very well. They had timed tests and my son last year could answer any of the simple multiplication problems (e.g., 7x9) just as quickly as I could. So there is something to be said for lots of drills, I guess.

[Rainbows&Roses]

I don't know. My neighbor's 4th grade teacher just told their class she wished she could teach them multiplication because it would make doing fractions so much easier. Apparently teaching multiplication is not part of the school curriculum at any time. They are on the NCLB watch list so they teach what is on the tests exclusively apparently and multiplication can be done with the calculators they are allowed to use for everything. Technology is truly going to make the kids of the future less smart or at least completely incapable of being able to do anything without the aid of technology.

This is one of many reasons I homeschool.

[larig]

I'm 42 and I learned the 9s on my fingers with that trick too. The underlying math behind the trick is darned interesting and sophisticated.

[lovin2shop]

I'm 42 and I learned the 9s on my fingers with that trick too. The underlying math behind the trick is darned interesting and sophisticated.

Oh, I totally agree with you here. But, in my opinion, this trick is something to be taught as an enrichment, not the fundamental part of learning. I would much rather do this as a supplement at home, and let them do the memorization at school. But, I'm a geek, and like to do this kind of stuff.

My fear is that the kids will learn the tricks now, but not really be able to apply them later. Then, they won't have the basics to build upon, and then you have a formerly well performing student getting stuck on the easy part of the problem. I just can't imagine a classroom full of algebra students singing songs and counting on their fingers to solve the final part of the problem and having time to finish the entire test. I may be wrong though!

[alexsmommy]

My summer plan for DS1 is to have him do the rote memorization.

I was happy to see the first page of straight multiplication problems come home, but I could tell some of the mistakes he made was that he has not learned the rote memorization.

I am not above paying him to do so since I think it will make math easier for him and I don't want him to get frustrated with math and then think he is "bad" at it.

[larig]

Oh, I totally agree with you here. But, in my opinion, this trick is something to be taught as an enrichment, not the fundamental part of learning. I would much rather do this as a supplement at home, and let them do the memorization at school. But, I'm a geek, and like to do this kind of stuff.

My fear is that the kids will learn the tricks now, but not really be able to apply them later. Then, they won't have the basics to build upon, and then you have a formerly well performing student getting stuck on the easy part of the problem. I just can't imagine a classroom full of algebra students singing songs and counting on their fingers to solve the final part of the problem and having time to finish the entire test. I may be wrong though!

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but I learned in calculus as a senior in h.s. the little song "low d high minus high d low over the denominator squared we go." I never ever forgot that complicated formula (for the derivative of a quotient) and when I taught calculus I taught my kids that same rhyme. I'm sure they used it on the AP test.

[brittone2]

I think both approaches have their place. We HS, but my DS1 learned pretty early on things like 8x7=56 can also be solved using 4x7=28 and then double the 28 to get 56. He would be in 2nd grade if he was in PS. He knows all of his multiplication tables, but I think it is also awesome that he learned the relationships involved in multiplying, not just the rote facts. The rote memorization came with practice (just using multiplication over and over again) but I also think there's value in understanding some of the reasons why things work the way they do. He can also cross check himself this way if he forgets a fact for a minute. I think that's a good thing. Those relationships are also very helpful for mental math work IME.

I majored in physical therapy in college, which meant large amounts of memorizing at times (cranial nerves, carpal bones, whatever...). Everyone I know used mnemonic devices. I think the songs as a mnemonic device can have their place. Over time, hopefully the practice makes the facts more automatic.

[ett]

DS1's school uses Thinkmath. There is a lot of emphasis on learning different ways to do a problem (and therefore really understanding the math concept) before the traditional method. Yes, it's important to eventually memorize that 8x8 is 64, but kids need to understand the theory behind how they get the answer. The tricks should be taught after the fundamentals of multiplication are taught. Eventually, kids should memorize the mult. table so that it can be done quickly.

[justlearning]

DS1's school uses Thinkmath. There is a lot of emphasis on learning different ways to do a problem (and therefore really understanding the math concept) before the traditional method. Yes, it important to eventually memorize that 8x8 is 81, but kids need to understand the theory behind how they get the answer. The tricks should be taught after the fundamentals of multiplication are taught. Eventually, kids should memorize the mult. table so that it can be done quickly.

I think that parents can play a role in helping kids understand the underlying theory. My DS2 who's in K right now can answer questions like 2x5 or 3x3 or 10x4 but I've never shown him a multiplication table or flash card or have had him memorize answers. Instead, he understands that multiplying means that number being added to itself that many times so he can figure it out on his own due to knowing how to add.

DS1 understood this too long before he had to memorize the answers in 2nd grade. So he could have figured out before memorizing that 9x9 = 81 but he could say that answer in one second instead of 10 seconds due to memorizing. So the memorization does have its place but the theory can/should take place long before that. And I do feel that it can start at home.

[niccig]

I like that they teach them the underlying concept, but I also agree that at some point, they need to be able to just know the answer.

I've been using some worksheets from here to help DS with addition drilling. He understand the concepts, can work out the answer, but basic math facts need to be instant recall. His school uses everyday math that is light on drills, so we do a little at home.

http://www.dadsworksheets.com/

[kijip]

Everything that can be learned by rote can be forgotten either a little or a lot. How many folks recall the stuff they crammed for exams in college? I was super excited when at age 6 T learned his multiplication tables by rote memory, using workbooks and Timez Attack. Well after a couple of months of not using it too much he plain forgot most of it. We relearned everything with tricks and problem solving and real life examples and it has firmly stayed put. Also knowing 8X4= 32 or 8X8=64 by memory alone does not help you work out that 64/8=8 or that 64/32=2. Don't get me wrong there is plenty of place for practice and memory and drills in math education. But that alone hampers long term math success in a major way.

[lovin2shop]

Oh, I definitely used a lot of mnemonic devices over the years in school, but I guess I think of them as more helpful for the unusual stuff that you are unlikely to retain as opposed to basics that you should really know like the back of your hand. It is interesting how they tend to stick with you over the years! I'm wondering how well they are retained if they are overused though.

I also have liked a lot of the math curriculum that they have used up to this point. It does really help them to do math in their head, which is something that I've never done well. And the ironic thing is that I'm an Accountant, so it would be nice to not be so tied to my calculator. Give me a pencil and I can whiz through most complex math, but ask me a fairly simple question and I can -maybe- ballpark it. I've asked my DS to solve some pretty advanced logic / math problems in his head, and he's done really well in my opinion, probably better than me. So, I don't want to sound I'm bagging on the whole system.

I do feel like it kind of sets them up for failure if you teach it in a way that they can't solve it in time for the timed test. I could see a kid who is already frustrated with Math getting even more so, when in reality they really just couldn't move their hands fast enough. That's a lot of picking up and putting down the pencil! When I asked my DS if he thought about just memorizing the numbers, he looked at me like I had two heads. He tends to be very, very literal about things, so he felt like he had to do it the way the teacher taught them.

[Green_Tea]

Everything that can be learned by rote can be forgotten either a little or a lot. How many folks recall the stuff they crammed for exams in college? I was super excited when at age 6 T learned his multiplication tables by rote memory, using workbooks and Timez Attack. Well after a couple of months of not using it too much he plain forgot most of it. We relearned everything with tricks and problem solving and real life examples and it has firmly stayed put. Also knowing 8X4= 32 or 8X8=64 by memory alone does not help you work out that 64/8=8 or that 64/32=2. Don't get me wrong there is plenty of place for practice and memory and drills in math education. But that alone hampers long term math success in a major way.

:yeahthat:

I was taught multiplication ONLY through rote memorization, and it wasn't until the end of middle school that I completely understood the relationship between multiplication and addition and multiplication and division. It really slowed down my math development, and also made me feel like I was bad at math, because I just didn't get it. I am happy to see my kids learning a different way.

[KrisM]

DS1's school uses Thinkmath. There is a lot of emphasis on learning different ways to do a problem (and therefore really understanding the math concept) before the traditional method. Yes, it important to eventually memorize that 8x8 is 81, but kids need to understand the theory behind how they get the answer. The tricks should be taught after the fundamentals of multiplication are taught. Eventually, kids should memorize the mult. table so that it can be done quickly.

I think understanding the way to get there is important, too. DS taught himself mulitplication and it takes him a while, as he doesn't have it memorized. But, if you ask him, he'll figure out using some multiplication and some addition what the answer is. I like that he gets the why.

(8x8=64, not 81, btw)

[justlearning]

To add to what I said earlier, my 6-year-old son can also answer division problems like 8/2 or 100/10 or 400/2 or 400/4. With my boys, I've just given them simple math problems for fun (e.g., at dinner) and then build on that knowledge so they start realizing that the sample principle applies no matter how large the number. IMO a kid who can understand addition can also then understand multiplication and division--the understanding of those principles work hand-in-hand.

I've also found that math becomes very fun for kids when they realize that they can work with big numbers too. In fact, when driving carpool, we used to do a game where I would keep asking various math questions (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division) to see if we could get to 1 million by the time we got to school (10 minutes away). Since I'm controlling the questions, of course we always did. We did the reverse, starting at 1 million, on the way back home. This is when my DS1 and his two friends were in 1st grade, and answering my math questions seemed much more exciting then doing the simple questions that they were getting in school. In fact, they'd always jump in the car and beg me to start the math game. So again, I think that an understanding and love for math can certainly begin at home (or in the car!).

[ett]

(8x8=64, not 81, btw)

:duh: I was thinking 9X9 and wrote 8x8 instead!

[gatorsmom]

DS1's school uses Thinkmath. There is a lot of emphasis on learning different ways to do a problem (and therefore really understanding the math concept) before the traditional method. Yes, it's important to eventually memorize that 8x8 is 64, but kids need to understand the theory behind how they get the answer. The tricks should be taught after the fundamentals of multiplication are taught. Eventually, kids should memorize the mult. table so that it can be done quickly.


ITA. My school is teaching Saxon math. The entire school's philosophy is to teach the facts of math, phonics, spelling, and grammar at an age when children memorize quickly. This is called the Grammar stage when the focus is on memorization. In grades 6-8th they are taught to analyze, examine and try to understand the cause and effect relationships amongst different fields of knowledge. Our high school teaches uses the Socratic method for grades 9-12.

This method of teaching may not work or be appreciated by all, but it is the classical method and makes a lot of sense to me and DH. Gator is studying his multiplication tables now and the focus is on memorization. However, he works on worksheets that allow him to apply the multiplication facts to everyday situations. This helps him understand why it's important to learn his memorization facts and it keeps him from getting bored. The parents are encouraged to add to and incorporate what the kids are learning into our everyday life as well. Which is why I incorporate the "tricks" and songs I"ve learned to help keep what he's memorized sharp in his memory!

[Cam&Clay]

The tricks are used to LEARN them. They aren't used to MEMORIZE them.

The tricks are great. I remember being in third grade and being enthralled by the 9's trick, but memorizing them is a completely different skill. Memorization has nothing to do with knowing how multiplication works.

I fought so hard to have DS1 memorize his tables. He still hesitates with a few of them, and I freak out on him. It's not pretty.

[kijip]

The other problem with bored to tears memorization is that many kids learn to HATE math this way and never come back to it. We have had a LONG problem in this country with most people not doing well enough in math to be eligible for various college majors and career tracks or just not being interested in math beyond the bare minimums they need to graduate. We need to teach math with the goal of more successful math students in higher level math. We don't get that by turning so many off math.

[Kindra178]

DS1's school uses Thinkmath. There is a lot of emphasis on learning different ways to do a problem (and therefore really understanding the math concept) before the traditional method. Yes, it's important to eventually memorize that 8x8 is 64, but kids need to understand the theory behind how they get the answer. The tricks should be taught after the fundamentals of multiplication are taught. Eventually, kids should memorize the mult. table so that it can be done quickly.

Memorizing 8x8=64 does not teach you that 64 constitutes 8 8s. I want my child to understand how to get to 64; then 8x8 is memorized. Rote memorization presupposes that kids understand that that there are 8 8s in 64. For some people, like me, that is not the case. I would have learned much more math if I were taught the New Math.

[egoldber]

FWIW, my older DD's best subject is math. She never fully memorized her times tables in third grade. All the timed tests did was cause her major anxiety. She is now in 5th and the fact that she is not fast with her multiplication facts is totally not an issue. She is simply not someone who has fast recall of facts, but that has nothing to do with her ability to learn and fully understand the concepts.

[ellies mom]

Memorizing 8x8=64 does not teach you that 64 constitutes 8 8s. I want my child to understand how to get to 64; then 8x8 is memorized. Rote memorization presupposes that kids understand that that there are 8 8s in 64. For some people, like me, that is not the case. I would have learned much more math if I were taught the New Math.

:yeahthat:

The calculator on my phone can tell me that 8x8=64. What my calculator can't tell me is why or how. Understanding "why and how" is much more important to achieving math literacy. I know that I was hampered by my lack of math literacy much more than I was helped by my knowledge of multiplication tables. I'm good with math now but I can't help but wonder where I would be if I had the math skills coming out of high school rather than halfway through my 20s. I don't want my girls to have that problem.

[lovin2shop]

I completely agree that the concepts are far more important than the memorization. But, I won't agree that singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star to get the answer to 3x3 is helpful in way to learning the concept. Nor is moving your fingers in a pattern without any explanation or understanding for why this pattern might make sense. These tricks are just memorization themselves, and while I think that it might work for an upcoming test, in the long run it takes longer and is more convoluted than just committing the basic facts to memory. So, I just don't think that I can get there to agree that this particular way of teaching multiplication is productive. But, like I said, I've actually like much of the math curriculum besides this issue, so my thought is that I'll have to teach the basic multiplication myself. It just worries me that many other kids could be negatively affected by this teaching as well, so I'm weighing whether it is worth the angst that would probably result from commenting on the curriculum.

[ellies mom]

I guess I would ask if this is how they are actually teaching the concepts or if the songs and tricks are just fun supplements. If the songs are just one aspect of it and your child has just latched onto it as "the way to do it" then I'd encourage him to branch out and try the other methods. I know Math Connects does have songs but my daughter has never come home singing them or talking about them so I don't think they are an important part of the curriculum just something fun. I found mention of them on the website but I haven't looked that them.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk