Please advise: 7-yr-old exploring own & friend's bodies

[SweetTooth]

DS, who is 7 years old and in first grade, has been showing his genitalia and looking at other's (a girl classmate). This has come as quite a shock to DH and I and we are trying to determine how to best handle the situation. We have not done a very good job having open discussions with DS about anatomy, where babies come from, etc., so we're thinking that is where we should start. He is clearly very curious and trying to learn on his own. Any suggestions on books/resources to help guide such discussions? Should we let the mother of the girl know? Any BTDT, insight, and advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,

[niccig]

I'm sure others will have suggestions. I have a couple of books that I read to DS (also 7) on and off for the last few years - Your Body Belongs to You is one that I can remember. It talks about private parts of your body and that no one is allowed to touch you there. DS and I then talk about which body parts, not allowed to let people touch them (exceptions are Dr. if he asks), or to touch other's private parts. I've told DS that not even mummy or daddy should touch him there, unless it's helping with toilet or something. But even at 7, there's no need for me to wipe him or help him wash his penis. I want him to know that he's the only one to touch himself, so if anyone tries to, he knows it's wrong and to tell me. I include the "you not to touch anyone else's private parts", so he knows that's not OK either.

You could then broaden that to not showing other people. When DS was about 2yo he started playing with his penis and I've always told him that it was something to do in his room alone. Sometimes he's getting in the bath and will hold his penis and pretend he's peeing. I tell him that he's not alone, and he's to stop. So teaching him acceptable and not acceptable times to be touching his penis, or his hands would be in his pants all the time.

I know there are books that talk about birds and bees. At this point, DS does know all the correct anatomy, and how girls and boys are different - but we haven't gotten into the "how are babies made" part. I think I should do this in simple terms before someone else tells him....I'll be watching to see about book recommendations etc on that.

[Tondi G]

this series of books is great!

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Stork-Families-Friends/dp/0763600474

http://www.amazon.com/Amazing-About-Sperm-Babies-Families/dp/0763600512

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/0763644846

this might be helpful

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Mark-Get-Set-Grow/dp/1557047812/ref=pd_sim_b_7

or this one

http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Big-Secret-Talking-about/dp/0316101834/ref=pd_sim_b_6

Or this one

http://www.amazon.com/Said-guide-keeping-private-parts/dp/1878076493/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Save this one for when he is maybe 11

http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Going-Down-There-Questions/dp/0802775403/ref=pd_sim_b_6

[lalasmama]

I think there's two different things to be addressed here.

First, and more importantly, I believe, is that you need to tell the other child's parent(s). This is for a few reasons: (1) The child is likely to tell her mom or dad "Why does Joey look different? Does Daddy look like Joey?" (2) If it was your child at someone else's house, would you appreciate knowing? (3) The other child's parents need to talk with the other child too, about private parts and whatever else they choose.

Exploration at this age is pretty normal, when it's done between kids of similar ages/abilities/etc., which is what this sounds like. I remember being about this age, and doing a "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" with a friend's brother who was near our age. Hey, when you've had a penis (or a vulva) for so many years and are used to seeing it, the other half's bits-n-pieces look weird! :rotflmao:

DD's nanny's daughter has been interested in other bodies lately. She's 2 years younger than DD, but is definitely the "alpha child" between her and DD. She's attempted to get DD to pee outside (DD told her no way, that I wouldn't ever let her play outside if she did that), and has also walked into the bathroom, on purpose, while DD was peeing. After some talking, the girl said she wondered if all girls went potty the same way (since someone told her some boys sit and some boys stand). We explained that it's normal to be curious and want to look, but that our bodies are for our eyes only, and it's not okay to play "show-n-tell" with them.

I also spent some time with DD, talking about the experience. She said her tummy felt sick when the other child walked in on her peeing and wouldn't leave. I explained that when she feels that in her tummy, that means something is wrong, and she needs to go straight to an adult. I told her that when she has that sick-tummy feeling and she's undressed at all, that it counts as "bad touch". She said she didn't know it was "bad touch" if it was another child, especially when it was her beloved playmate! We needed to talk a lot that any touch that's not by DD on DD's own body, can be a bad touch if she gets the sick-tummy feeling.

DD needed things spelled out, so our "touch/look" rules are:
1-No one looks/touches DD without her permission.
2-Mom only looks/touches there when DD asks/says there's something wrong, or when DD says she needs help cleaning after getting sick (diarrhea).
3-Doctor only looks or touches when DD has said there is something wrong, and when Mom says doctor may touch, after DD says it's okay.
4-No one looks there without DD and Mom saying it's okay.
5-No one helps DD clean up unless DD has diarrhea all over, and asks for help, and only certain people may help (Mom, 2 former step-sisters, 2 aunties, 2 nannies, doctor/nurse at the hospital). No one else is allowed to help, not even specific people (ie, her birth mother, her birth father, her birth sister, her birth brother, her dad-type, the coach, etc).

In our situation, the girls aren't allowed together without an adult for now because of how curious this other child is. We're probably over-doing it, but since DD's having a hard time telling this child "no" and telling an adult immediately, no unsupervised contact seems most appropriate to me.

I think the actual birds-n-bees talks don't have to happen now, unless he starts asking. Realistically, I don't think many children are going to ask about actual mechanics of sex; usually, it's more about understanding why they look so different.

[RedSuedeShoes]

Love this book! From Diapers to Dating (http://www.amazon.com/Diapers-Dating-Parents-Sexually-Children/dp/155704810X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326436281&sr=8-1).

ETA: Just realized I actually have the older version of the book. Have not seen the new version, but can't imagine it being anything less than terrific since it's by the same author.

[amandabea]

Should we let the mother of the girl know? Any BTDT, insight, and advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,

You've gotten great input on books and how to address with your DS, but I wanted to specifically address your Q about talking with the girls parents and I think you absolutely must. They are very likely to hear about this from their DD and could think poorly of your DS. I dont mean for that to sound harsh, but I'm just thinking about what would go through my head if my DD said "so and so showed me his penis and asked me to show him my vagina."
even if they don't hear about it from their DD, they will likely want to address it just as you do.

[Meatball Mommie]

You've gotten great input on books and how to address with your DS, but I wanted to specifically address your Q about talking with the girls parents and I think you absolutely must. They are very likely to hear about this from their DD and could think poorly of your DS. I dont mean for that to sound harsh, but I'm just thinking about what would go through my head if my DD said "so and so showed me his penis and asked me to show him my vagina."
even if they don't hear about it from their DD, they will likely want to address it just as you do.

:yeahthat:
Although what was going on was pretty innocent, it could sound not-so-innocent if the girl went home and told her parents. Plus it gives the other parents a heads-up that their kid is curious and that they need to discuss it home, too. That second bit is actually more important to me than how your son would come across. It sounds like she needs to learn about privacy, etc. for her own safety as well.

[SweetTooth]

Thank you each very much for your input. We went out and bought several of the books mentioned and have started reading one of them ("It's Not the Stork"). Since DS was young we have emphasized how important it is for others to not see/touch your privates and while it was fine for DS to explore his own body, to do so only in his own room. But we have not adequately educated him on proper names of body parts, including girls/women so that is what we are focusing on in the hopes that it helps with his obvious and natural curiosity about it. It has also prompted us to talk more about it with DD, who is 4 (on a level appropriate to her age).

What we still don't know about is telling the other parents. While I agree with PPs about the importance of them knowing so they can educate/discuss this important topic with their daughter, I must admit, we are concerned about the repercussions. If the other parents were friends, we would definitely tell them but since we don't really know them (she is a classmate), we fear that their response may be, "not our child" and as a result, DS becoming ostracized. I know it's irrational but it is a concern. We luckily have a long weekend so we're addressing it on our end and trying to figure out what to do about the other family.

Any further thoughts?

[chozen]

where is this taking place? at your home or some one elses. i think that is the first place i would start.

[kellij]

My 2 cents. I would be furious if I found out that someone knew something relatively important about my child and chose not to tell me because they were afraid their child could get judged by it. Big picture to me is that it's more important to take care of all kids than to hide something that's normal because of fear of what might happen. I'm sure they will want to know details, like when and where and how you know about it. But it seems reasonable to say that our kids are both clearly curious about how people are different and we thought you'd want to know that they were investigating this together. I would make it clear that it appeared to be entirely innocent, but that you thought that they might want to know about it.

[Melaine]

My 2 cents. I would be furious if I found out that someone knew something relatively important about my child and chose not to tell me because they were afraid their child could get judged by it. Big picture to me is that it's more important to take care of all kids than to hide something that's normal because of fear of what might happen. I'm sure they will want to know details, like when and where and how you know about it. But it seems reasonable to say that our kids are both clearly curious about how people are different and we thought you'd want to know that they were investigating this together. I would make it clear that it appeared to be entirely innocent, but that you thought that they might want to know about it.

:yeahthat: Honestly, I'm horrified that you would consider NOT telling the parents. I also don't understand when/how this occurred if you don't know them well.

[squimp]

Where is it happening? If at school, I would want to know where and how, and would talk with the teacher and perhaps let her handle it.

If it's happening at home or on playdates and I would be talking with the parents. It's true, some people do react really strongly about this, but at age 7 it's probably important to make everyone aware of what is going on.

[ahisma]

She's 7. It is going to come out at some point. I get that you are worried about repercussions, but they will be much, much worse if you say nothing.

And truly, if you were in their shoes wouldn't you be mortified if they said nothing? Personally, I'd be understanding if I was told and grateful that the parents were forthcoming. Kids do these things. But, if I was not told I would be livid. Silence is just not okay here. It's a tacit agreement between parents when you trust another kids family with your child. If something like this happens, you are told. No exceptions.

[SweetTooth]

Ah, sorry, I didn't give enough details...it happened at school so we plan on telling the teacher. Oh, if this were on a playdate, we would for sure tell the other parents!

If we knew the parents, we would tell them but to contact a family out of the blue to inform them of such a situation, does require careful consideration and thought as to what different outcomes could occur. I would hope that most parents would think of it as innocent kids exploring and learning together, but quite honestly, I can also picture a certain type of parent who would freak out, think that their child would not engage in such behavior, and blame DS for forcing it or something.

I am quite certain that DS would not coerce anyone and that it was a mutual, innocent, child-like "show & tell", but since we do not know the other family, we need to carefully consider if/how to approach them. That's why I posted, to get a sense of how other parents would handle this situation and how they might react if on the receiving end of this information. If roles were reversed, I would be grateful to know and use it as a teaching moment, but maybe not everyone is like that...

What are thoughts on telling only the teacher and letting her handle it? I would hope that she would use it to educate all the kids on privacy of their own bodies, etc., but do worry that she may single out DS. He is very sensitive and would not handle such "scolding" well at all. And they will want to know who all was involved, so is it better for us to let the other family know so they're not getting this info from the teacher?

[chozen]

i think maybe you should talk with the teacher privately and let her /him know your concerns, i would also let her know that if she plans on talking to your son about this that you would like to be present. i am still trying to understand how this could have happened at school? where were the teachers?

[SweetTooth]

Yes, I like the request that if the teacher talks with DS about this that DH or I be present, thank you for that suggestion.

Apparently, it happened on the playground. There's a big, open field and kids run around so are not in direct sight of the playground teachers at all times.

[chozen]

wow, i think i would talk to them about this as well, how did this take place without being noticed by someone? seems scary to me.

[AshleyAnn]

If it happened outside your home I see no reason for you to contact the other family. I would contact the teacher (or principal) about it have them deal with the other family. I would expect them to handle it the same way a daycare handles one child biting another, parents are not told names - just what happened and how it was handled.

[lalasmama]

Since this happened at school, I think the teacher and principal need to be brought up to speed, ideally with DS telling them what happened (so that details are correct), and that one of them needs to be the one to let the other parents know. Since this happened on the last school day before a long weekend, you never know, the other child could be telling her parents about it as well, and they may be figuring out how to tell you guys as well, know what I mean?

FWIW, I was very much a "Not My Child!" person... There's a lot of things that my child would/could do, but I was very "NMC" about private part show-n-tell. That being said, I was still able to listen quietly to what was said and comment from there. (And the two times that my child has been involved, the other child has 'fessed up to being the instigator. My child is so modest that she won't take her socks off in front of another child, LOL, so I don't see her dropping her drawers to play doctor!).... Generally, I'm just trying to say even if you've met this parent casually and she seems like a "NMC" type, you never know how she will react when it's her child and we're talking about this kind of "show and tell". My DD's nanny was also very much a "NMC", and quickly changed her tune when her daughter (twice!) admitted to trying to see my DD undressed.

[ha98ed14]

I think saying something depends very much on when and where this was happening. If it's happening at school, tell the principal what DS told you and that you are dealing with it, and and let him/her tell the other family. Then the family will know, but hopefully the principal will keep quiet about who the other child is. That's what they do when there's a "biter" at daycare. The "bitten" child's parents must be told, but they will never say who the biter is. I see this as a somewhat parallel situation. The truth is because your child is the boy, and males are more often the sexual aggressors when there is victimization, they probably will judge him. But the protocol at this age should be the same regardless of gender. So I would go through the school.

IMO, if it's happening at school, it is the school's problem. Why are the kids being left alone in such a way that they can pull their pants down? Little boys might be able to whip it out with their pants up, but little girls, those pants have to come down to right above the knees for anyone to see. Why doesn't anyone notice a girl with her pants down? They shouldn't be using the same bathroom, right? I think you need to ask your son WHERE this is happening?

[Melaine]

Yeah, I agree there needs to be a lot of communication on this with the principal and teacher, because there is NOT enough supervision happening. I agree with letting the principal or teacher inform the other parents, but I surely think someone should tell them.