Joe Paterno has died according to CNN

[Cam&Clay]

It was erroniously reported yesterday but it's true today. I'm sure a lot of people are upset.

[malphy]

I'm pretty sure the abuse victims are not too upset. I m sorry but he was old, had cancer and broke his hip death was coming. Ihe was a great coach but he was no Gandhi or mother Teresa. I say save the tears for the abuse victims.

[Cam&Clay]

No tears here either, but my FB newsfeed is full of tributes and tears. Kinda sickening.

[AnnieW625]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

[carolinamama]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat:

[LMPC]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat:

[SnuggleBuggles]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat: I think, no matter what, to have the last months of your life be living through all of that + cancer was extraordinarily hard. I wish he could have had more peace in his final months. RIP.

[malphy]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

no flaming here.

I do feel for his family but he did make his bed and unfortunately his family will be the ones having to lay in it. Whether it be lack of support now when they need it most or anger and hatred. They have only their dear loved one to blame for that.

So sad and senseless, all he had to do was make the correct and moral choice. He chose football and his reputation.

[JamiMac]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat: I totally agree with you.

[sntm]

I had no interest I the man or the football team and was gravely disappointed reading the stories to know at he probably could have stopped it. That said, I think it is always a tragedy when people die before they can make up for their past mistakes.

This is terrible also, but I did think about all the people clamoring over his forced early retirement, when in reality he had very little time left anyway.

[Green22]

I live in PSU central. Trust me, the man had plenty of peace and love in his lifetime that more than makes up for the - what, 2 months? - of tough times he faced. People here treat him as though he's Jesus, and even after the scandal. His rep hasn't suffered too much here.

It is sad that his family has lost someone they loved so much, but I too am a little sick over the hand-wringing.

[acmom]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat:

[sewarsh]

This is how I feel...RIP JoePa.

Joe Paterno, your life has made a difference. Your effect on this university and this world reaches outside the lines of the field. Your life is and will always be remembered for the selfless values imparted on this world. All we can say is thank you.

[Ceepa]

I'm sorry for the loss to his family, but I don't think even with all the time in the world he would have tried to make amends in any way. Outside of Pennsylvania, his reputation is forever tarnished, and for all the pain involved, deservedly so.

[malphy]

I'm sorry for the loss to his family, but I don't think even with all the time in the world he would have tried to make amends in any way. Outside of Pennsylvania, his reputation is forever tarnished, and for all the pain involved, deservedly so.

:yeahthat:

[malphy]

This is how I feel...RIP JoePa.

Joe Paterno, your life has made a difference. Your effect on this university and this world reaches outside the lines of the field. Your life is and will always be remembered for the selfless values imparted on this world. All we can say is thank you.

I really do try to wrap my head around your point of view, I do, but I can't get there.

His life undoubtedly made a difference to people in a good way but does that negate the lives he could have saved from his monstrous friend? What about the lives of those boys and their families? What about the impact on their futures and how they relate to people in the future?

I am sorry I just cannot condone his silence despite all the so called positive he has done. I am sorry but promoting a college and its athletes may be a good thing but it does not negate taking a blind eye to sordid and criminal behaviors/people.

ftr, I have relatives, close ones, that have and still are attending psu. I feel bad that now the whole school population will have this shadow over them all because of the god that was football and joe pa cared too much for themselves.

[Momit]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

I agree.

[elektra]

I am in no away affiliated with Penn State, and you can flame me all you want but I seriously I hope he man is able to RIP now. My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

:yeahthat:

[sewarsh]

I really do try to wrap my head around your point of view, I do, but I can't get there.

His life undoubtedly made a difference to people in a good way but does that negate the lives he could have saved from his monstrous friend? What about the lives of those boys and their families? What about the impact on their futures and how they relate to people in the future?

I am sorry I just cannot condone his silence despite all the so called positive he has done. I am sorry but promoting a college and its athletes may be a good thing but it does not negate taking a blind eye to sordid and criminal behaviors/people.

ftr, I have relatives, close ones, that have and still are attending psu. I feel bad that now the whole school population will have this shadow over them all because of the god that was football and joe pa cared too much for themselves.

i knew it wouldn't take long before you flamed me or criticized how i feel, but i really don't care if you can wrap your head around it or not.

Regardless, Joe clearly made mistakes. I don't think he's as rotten or vindictive as you or the media make him out to be. I think he didn't clearly understand the extent of what was going on, now he does and he wishes he would've done more. I don't think he chose football over young lives - I do not believe he knew. Maybe I'm a fool, but I choose to believe the good in people until I am proven wrong. He was a good man, he did a lot of good for a lot of people. That shouldn't be discounted or forgotten.

i'm glad you blatantly see things so clearly. Its not so black and white to everyone as it is to you.

[luli13]

This is how I feel...RIP JoePa.

Joe Paterno, your life has made a difference. Your effect on this university and this world reaches outside the lines of the field. Your life is and will always be remembered for the selfless values imparted on this world. All we can say is thank you.


:yeahthat: Life isn't always simple and we ALL make mistakes and bad choices sometimes. ALL of us.

[LMPC]

:yeahthat: Life isn't always simple and we ALL make mistakes and bad choices sometimes. ALL of us.

Yep.that.exactly.

[megs4413]

I do not believe he knew.


Admittedly I have not followed JoePa's statements post-scandal closely, but I am confused about this statement of yours. I didn't think it was ever even under debate whether or not he "knew" something inappropriate was going on. My understanding is that he was told and decided to pass it up the chain of command instead of approaching the police or basically ANYONE else. As far as I know, that's all he did with the information he had, but he did, in fact, have the information. Is that not accurate?

I'm with those who can't understand the people who still support and celebrate his legacy. His legacy is allowing the torture and rape of young boys. Is it fair that all the "good" he did aside from that is discounted in the wake of that truth? No, of course not, but life's not fair.

[wellyes]

Admittedly I have not followed JoePa's statements post-scandal closely, but I am confused about this statement of yours. I didn't think it was ever even under debate whether or not he "knew" something inappropriate was going on. My understanding is that he was told and decided to pass it up the chain of command instead of approaching the police or basically ANYONE else. As far as I know, that's all he did with the information he had, but he did, in fact, have the information. Is that not accurate?

I'm with those who can't understand the people who still support and celebrate his legacy. His legacy is allowing the torture and rape of young boys. Is it fair that all the "good" he did aside from that is discounted in the wake of that truth? No, of course not, but life's not fair.
How much villainy should be assigned to someone whose sin was trusting that the system would work? It was a mistake, a terrible mistake, but it doesn't mean I am going to curse his name forever. There had to have been dozens of people at Penn State in the same situation. Penn State is not particularly evil, I don't think. Something like 10% of children are sexually abused at some point. It is a wicked wicked world we live in. There are a whole lot of people who are willfully closing their eyes, in every town.

[momof2girls]

I really do try to wrap my head around your point of view, I do, but I can't get there.

His life undoubtedly made a difference to people in a good way but does that negate the lives he could have saved from his monstrous friend? What about the lives of those boys and their families? What about the impact on their futures and how they relate to people in the future?

I am sorry I just cannot condone his silence despite all the so called positive he has done. I am sorry but promoting a college and its athletes may be a good thing but it does not negate taking a blind eye to sordid and criminal behaviors/people.

:yeahthat: I can't get past his part in the ruining of kids' lives. No sport, team or game is worth it. I'm sure the victims families would agree.

[niccig]

How much villainy should be assigned to someone whose sin was trusting that the system would work? It was a mistake, a terrible mistake, but it doesn't mean I am going to curse his name forever. There had to have been dozens of people at Penn State in the same situation. Penn State is not particularly evil, I don't think. Something like 10% of children are sexually abused at some point. It is a wicked wicked world we live in. There are a whole lot of people who are willfully closing their eyes, in every town.

And all those that close their eyes, refuse to believe what is going on, refuse to get involved should equally be condemned as they're allowing predators to continue to hurt more victims.

Wicked things happen because there are wicked people, and there are people who know and don't do anything to stop it.

Legally Paterno did his duty, but morally everyone who knew something was going on and didn't stop it, morally they failed. It doesnt matter what their motivations were for not reporting it, it could be they just didnt want to believe it, or to protect legacies. How long should they pay for that? For the rest of their lives they will know they didn't act. People do make mistakes, some are bigger than others and you have to live with the consequences that society sets for breaking the laws, whether legal or moral consequences.

[sewarsh]

Admittedly I have not followed JoePa's statements post-scandal closely, but I am confused about this statement of yours. I didn't think it was ever even under debate whether or not he "knew" something inappropriate was going on. My understanding is that he was told and decided to pass it up the chain of command instead of approaching the police or basically ANYONE else. As far as I know, that's all he did with the information he had, but he did, in fact, have the information. Is that not accurate?

I'm with those who can't understand the people who still support and celebrate his legacy. His legacy is allowing the torture and rape of young boys. Is it fair that all the "good" he did aside from that is discounted in the wake of that truth? No, of course not, but life's not fair.

When I say "knew" I mean the extent of what was going on. What McQuery is saying is that he didn't give specifics but said fondling and inappropriate acts were occurring. With that said, that should be enough and I agree he should've done more. I also agree he should've been terminated (although I don't believe a phone call 2 days into the ordeal without ever speaking to him or gathering facts just to appease the public was the right way, but that's another post!).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that he was 75 YO when he was told by McQuery...I think he didn't/couldn't comprehend exactly what was going on...given his age, the grandiosity of the crime and the "cave" he lives in which I think included a major amount of denial. I think he did go up the chain of command hoping they'd do the right thing because I think he probably had no idea how to handle it. And i think he couldn't/didn't want to believe someone that close to him under his watch was doing something so horrendous.

Maybe I'm talking in circles here... The whole situation, including his death, are horribly sad. Denial can do crazy things to people and at the end of the day when i say JoePa didn't "know", I think it was because he was in such deep denial. I can't/won't/don't believe he outwardly knew what was going on.

Regardless, as i stated before, he was a great man that did great things for hundreds of individuals. that shouldn't be forgotten.

I have no idea if this makes sense. I'm thinking as I'm typing and I'm not a great writer! Just trying to express my emotions clearly but am probably jumping all over the place.

[AngB]

I am not intending this to be snarky, I am truly curious.

Aside from the sex abuse scandal AND aside from football, exactly what did Joe Paterno do that was so great for this country/world? I keep seeing comments like that from JoePa fans/supporters, and I am curious. (I even looked it up on wikipedia, not seeing anything that isn't related to Penn State-giving them money- or football.)

[dogmom]

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
(Quote most often attributed to Edmond Burke.)

My understanding is that the community of Penn State holds Joe Paterno, and many other people in power at the university, as good people. They did nothing, or certainly not enough, to ward off evil. It is human nature. We would all like to think if we had concerns about child abuse we would do nothing. But I've seen multiple situations discussed on this very board where clearly something wrong is going on, but human nature is not to jump to action to turn away from what we fear, what threatens are family, and not protect a child. That, however, does not absolve anyone involved of responsibility. So I have no problems saying he failed in his responsibility. I have no urge to vilify him, but I also do not think anyone owes him or his family an apology. The reality is not only did his and others inaction allowed multiple boys to be abuse, it probable created other abuses out of earlier victims. And that is all I really want to say about the subject.

[Momit]

I am not intending this to be snarky, I am truly curious.

Aside from the sex abuse scandal AND aside from football, exactly what did Joe Paterno do that was so great for this country/world? I keep seeing comments like that from JoePa fans/supporters, and I am curious. (I even looked it up on wikipedia, not seeing anything that isn't related to Penn State-giving them money- or football.)

I do think donating millions of dollars to Penn State academics is unusual.

ETA From seeing interviews on ESPN today it is clear that many of his players would argue that he had a positive impact on the besides just football. But he is still just a man and probably does not deserve to be deified or vilified to the extent he has been.

[wellyes]

I am not intending this to be snarky, I am truly curious.

Aside from the sex abuse scandal AND aside from football, exactly what did Joe Paterno do that was so great for this country/world? I keep seeing comments like that from JoePa fans/supporters, and I am curious. (I even looked it up on wikipedia, not seeing anything that isn't related to Penn State-giving them money- or football.)

He didn't do anything great, but - have you ever been in a city having a championship season? Right now Tom Brady is pretty beloved in Boston, because he gives us something to root for and feel good about. Joe is like that but did it for 46 YEARS. He has a special memory in the hearts of people generation after generation.

By it's just football. He is no hero. He's just a person people are fans of. Like rock bands and actors.

Certainly no one owes him an apology, and the protests against his firing were flat-out dispicable.

[g-mama]

This was published on FB by a friend of mine and it is SO right on.

http://www.37days.com/2011/11/stop-abdicating-the-responsibility-for-your-own-humanity-the-penn-state-tragedy-1.html

"We cannot stand up for children, for truth, for others, for ourselves, only when it is convenient."


This is *exactly* how I feel about the whole thing, said much more eloquently than I could ever say it.

[crl]

I think it is extremely unfortunate for all involved that Joe Paterno failed to pursue the matter adequately. I find it difficult to feel sorry for him when I consider the suffering of the children who were sexually abused and powerless.

Catherine

[fedoragirl]

I will echo Annie's statement. May he RIP.I do not agree with what he did or didn't do, and I could care less about football but in my faith and life, I do not and will not set myself to be a judge over all. He will be facing the fairest judge and it is not upto us to deify or villify him. It is sad that he is dead and my thoughts are for his family.

[BabyH]

no flaming here.

I do feel for his family but he did make his bed and unfortunately his family will be the ones having to lay in it. Whether it be lack of support now when they need it most or anger and hatred. They have only their dear loved one to blame for that.

So sad and senseless, all he had to do was make the correct and moral choice. He chose football and his reputation.

I agree with your last statement, and you said it better than I could have. And I also think he may have trouble resting in peace.

[sewarsh]

I am not intending this to be snarky, I am truly curious.

Aside from the sex abuse scandal AND aside from football, exactly what did Joe Paterno do that was so great for this country/world? I keep seeing comments like that from JoePa fans/supporters, and I am curious. (I even looked it up on wikipedia, not seeing anything that isn't related to Penn State-giving them money- or football.)

Hope this helps some...


Joseph Vincent Paterno: an off-the-field legacy, too By Martha Swearingen - University of Arkansas*'14

While most will think of the gridiron when remembering Paterno, he was about much more than just Nittany Lions football during his tenure at Penn State.

Paterno felt education was a top priority and aimed to begin molding athletics and academics as soon as he was hired in 1966. The NCAA’s 2008 Graduation Rates Report show Penn State’s four-year Graduation Success Rate of 78 percent to be much higher than the average 68 percent in Division I athletics.


Courtesy isportsweb - Joe Paterno and his wife helped raise nearly 14 million dollars for an expansion to Pattee Library.

Not only did he contribute to academics on the field, but Paterno has also consistently donated to university academics over the years. He and his wife, Sue, have donated more than $4 million dollars to university departments. His funds helped support the Penn State All-Sports Museum, Pasquerilla Spiritual Center and expansion of Pattee Library, which was named Paterno Library in his honor following the construction.

“His ambitions were far reaching, but he never believed he had to leave this Happy Valley to achieve them,” his family said in a statement to the Associated Press following his death Saturday morning. “He was a man devoted to his family, his university, his players and his community.”

He also donated $1 million dollars to the Mount Nittany Medical Center in 2009. The money funded the hospital’s east wing expansion. It allowed the addition of an Intensive Care Unit and acute-nursing unit at the medical center.

Just last month, he and his wife, Sue, donated $100,000 to undergraduate programs and to allow students the opportunity to study abroad.

In 2001, a seven-foot-high bronze statue of Paterno was built outside of the east side of Beaver Stadium. According to StateCollege.com, hundreds of Penn State students and community members gathered there on Saturday night, dropping off flowers and cards at its base and lighting candles.

On the stone wall behind the statue lies engraved a quote from Coach Paterno:

“They ask me what I’d like written about me when I’m gone. I hope they write I made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach.”

[g-mama]

On the stone wall behind the statue lies engraved a quote from Coach Paterno:

“They ask me what I’d like written about me when I’m gone. I hope they write I made Penn State a better place, not just that I was a good football coach.”

This right here? His choice to turn a blind eye makes it very hard to say that he made Penn State a better place. He had the power to do so. He could have. But for a whole lotta young men, his inaction made Penn State a horrible place that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

It's easy to donate money. It's hard to step up and do the right thing.

[malphy]

This right here? His choice to turn a blind eye makes it very hard to say that he made Penn State a better place. He had the power to do so. He could have. But for a whole lotta young men, his inaction made Penn State a horrible place that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

It's easy to donate money. It's hard to step up and do the right thing.

:yeahthat:

I find it incomprehensible that otherwise intelligent people cannot seem to grasp this. Do you mean to tell me that because of all the "good" he did they wouldn't mind if Their son, nephew, etc was abused?

[BabyH]

:yeahthat:

I find it incomprehensible that otherwise intelligent people cannot seem to grasp this. Do you mean to tell me that because of all the "good" he did they wouldn't mind if Their son, nephew, etc was abused?

I'm with you. It's shocking to me how many people continue to defend Joe Paterno about this. Sure, we all make mistakes every day, but how many of us see kids being RAPED and choose to ignore it?!?! Have you read the testimonies? It's sickening. Downright sickening. I thought I was going to vomit.

When the students at PSU were on tv saying "But he's a father figure to us... waa waa waa..." I couldn't believe what I was hearing. If MY OWN father had gone about this scandal the way Paterno did, there's no way I'd stand behind him. Crimes against children are despicable, and so are the adults who CHOOSE to ignore them.

[g-mama]

I wonder if the people who defend Paterno are the same people who defended Catholic priests, or the priests who covered up for the priests who were molesting young boys. Or did they find those people reprehensible? Does it depend on who the abuser/enabler is as to whether he is worthy of our understanding and forgiveness? Surely, the priests who molested or enabled their fellow priests to molest did many good things in their lives, too. They helped many other people and devoted their lives to God in every other way. Does that balance it all out?

Note: I am Catholic myself.

[wellyes]

It's shocking to me how many people continue to defend Joe Paterno about this. Sure, we all make mistakes every day, but how many of us see kids being RAPED and choose to ignore it?!?!I doubt Joe Paterno ever saw a child being raped. He heard something awful was happening, thought "oh, the powers that be should take care of it" and moved on, when he should have acted.

I keep sounding like I'm defending him, and I don't mean to. His legacy is tarnished and should be tarnished. (Sickeningly, I get the impression that that is harder for Jerry Sandusky to take than the actual harm he did to children. ) I suppose the take away for all of us is that we need to be vigilant in our own lives to actively advocate when we suspect there is an issue.


I wonder if the people who defend Paterno are the same people who defended Catholic priests, or the priests who covered up for the priests who were molesting young boys. Or did they find those people reprehensible? Does it depend on who the abuser/enabler is as to whether he is worthy of our understanding and forgiveness? Surely, the priests who molested or enabled their fellow priests to molest did many good things in their lives, too. They helped many other people and devoted their lives to God in every other way. Does that balance it all out?

Note: I am Catholic myself.

I keeping thinking of the RC church, too, but I didn't want to be the first to mention it. I don't mean to be inflammatory. But it's true, the church did far worse, for far longer, to far more victims. And obviously, many people who were part of the cover up are still in power. Not sure how to feel about it. Besides disgusted. I am not Catholic, but my dad is, and I respect the faith. But. It's complicated.