Nature vs. Nuture question.....

[Mopey]

As I approach motherhood I find myself really curious about choices in rearing children.

I wanted to know people's opinion on whether or not they think certain behaviors are traits/natures of babies are exacerbated by the parents choices?

There are lots of things I can think of but the first that comes to mind is:

For example - A baby that cannot be put down without getting fussy being run to/attended every moment - the moment it makes a peep. Do you think that contributes to their lack of learning to relax when left alone (not unattended)? Or do you think that child would be miserable/fussy no matter what?

And other things like that....

Just interested :) TIA!

[wellyes]

I think parents have a HUGE influence on behavior if they give too little attention or too much negative attention. But loving parents, which is hopefully most of us, just cope with and adapt to the quirky kids we are blessed to have.


I also believe parents who blame bad parenting for producing fussy eaters/rambunctious kids/bad sleepers/too clingy/whatever are pretty much guaranteed to have that issue in their next kid. Get smug about what an awesome parent you are, and karma will smack you down.

[lalasmama]

My background: I was born to Family A, then adopted into Family B at 2mo old. My older Family B brother, who was Family B's biological child, conceived DD with a family friend. I'm now DD's (adoptive) mom. So, I my adopted daughter is the biological grandchild of my adopted parents. I met my biomother 2 years ago.

I grew up hearing, "Oh, you are just like your mom [or dad]!" (meaning my adoptive parents). I look like mom and dad, I talk like mom, mom and I had similar attitudes, and we DEFINITELY had similar tempers (LOL). I am, of course, "their" child. I am a product of their raising.

So now, I'm raising the biological grandchild of my adoptive parents. She's a carbon copy of me. She loves routine like me. She's touchy like me. Heck, we both have ADHD tendencies, and motor planning issues! We both have quick tempers. We both love to read. We like a late, small breakfast, and a late lunch.

For me, two years is when things started getting interesting. My birthmom, never having any idea of the biological beginning of DD, told me, "She looks just like the Famiily A grandchildren. No question there!" I kind of brushed it off, thinking she was just trying to "claim" DD and I, like any "new" mother does with her child/grandchild. And then we met my birthfamily. DD looks like a younger version of my cousins, and I totally see my half-sister's in her looks now. She has their attitude too! My half-sisters and I are so much alike, too. From the physical side of things (expected--similar hands, similar feet, a short nose-to-lip area, squinty eyes), to the silly side of things (we all have a special animal that we *still* hold and snuggle when anxious, love tattoos, tend to go for great accessories, but not pay much attention to the clothes we wear it with). We all talk alike. We're an anxious family (so not like my adoptive family, generally).

I think there's some general inborn temperment. And I think what the parents do/don't do have a HUGE bearing on how that nature is nurtured and comes out. Would DD be ADHD without me? Likely. However, we don't know who's to "blame" about it: her ADD biological father, her go-go-go biological grandmother, or her (adoptive) mama who also exhibits symptoms?

I do think some traits are "nurtured" into more than the genetics that brought them. Would DD be as routine-oriented if she was with another family? Who knows. It's just what I needed to be a good parent, to have routines.

While writing this, I started thinking about a very obvious way DD and I are different. My bedroom is chaos. Her bedroom is one of those "a place for everything and everything in it's place", all by her doing. She asks for time to clean up before bed, she puts things away before switching activities, etc. SO.NOT.ME! Her bios aren't like that. I'm not like that. Her maternal biological grandmother wasn't like that. It's TOTALLY her biological paternal grandparents coming out :)

[Nooknookmom]

I think parents have a HUGE influence on behavior if they give too little attention or too much negative attention. But loving parents, which is hopefully most of us, just cope with and adapt to the quirky kids we are blessed to have.


I also believe parents who blame bad parenting for producing fussy eaters/rambunctious kids/bad sleepers/too clingy/whatever are pretty much guaranteed to have that issue in their next kid. Get smug about what an awesome parent you are, and karma will smack you down.

I LOVE this answer! Esp. the quirky part, as all of us and our children have our little quirks that make us / them special!!!

Oh and the smug, "I've done this b4" thing. Um, yeah, I did this to a degree, DD1=a breeze, then came along my quirky little fish and ALL the rules in the book as I new them were erased off the page...never to be seen again. I love every crazy second of it!

[fivi2]

Well, I come at this a little differently because I have identical twins that I am trying to raise fairly similarly.

They have a lot of differences. A lot. I mean in their personalities, the way they react to things, the way they approach problems, the things they enjoy, etc. Of course there are a ton of similarities, too! I don't have another child to compare them to, but to me, they have big differences.

So does that make it nature or nurture, lol :) I am not sure what causes their differences!

[lizzywednesday]

Well, I come at this a little differently because I have identical twins that I am trying to raise fairly similarly.

They have a lot of differences. A lot. I mean in their personalities, the way they react to things, the way they approach problems, the things they enjoy, etc. Of course there are a ton of similarities, too! I don't have another child to compare them to, but to me, they have big differences.

So does that make it nature or nurture, lol :) I am not sure what causes their differences!

Just because they're identical on the surface doesn't mean they're exactly the same ... that's part of why twin studies are so interesting to the people who study them. They're each their own person, regardless of the biology that makes them look similar, KWIM?


As for your question, OP, the fussy infant who's run to at every cry doesn't necessarily grow up to be a clingy toddler or preschooler.

Due to her heart defect, my DH and I were told not to let our DD cry when she was a newborn, however, you couldn't meet a more independent, fearless and exploratory toddler than she is today!

I feel like a lot of the choices I could make about childrearing with my DD have helped establish that independence.

For example, if she falls and bumps her head, I don't immediately rush over unless she cries, which she rarely does, so we take crying very seriously in our house. I also don't make a huge deal over the issue, more of a "did you bonk your head?" and give her a hug & kiss and send her on her merry way.

She's also a fearless eater, trying things as varied as beef mole, tomatillo salsa, In 'n' Out cheeseburgers, grilled mahi mahi and hummus with little idea that she "shouldn't" be eating it. I exposed her to a lot of different flavors & textures when we started solids and, before that, I didn't alter my diet just because I was breastfeeding. (She has no food allergies or sensitivities.)

I wore her a lot when she was a newborn because I couldn't go anywhere otherwise ... and it also kept strangers from touching her or otherwise invading her personal space. (This was really important to me because she'd spent her first 10 days of life in a pediatric CICU.) I think this went a long way towards helping her develop a wonderful temperament.

Have I made mistakes? Absolutely. You will too.

It's not the end of the world to make a mistake.

[hellokitty]

I think it's a little of both. With my kids, I have raised them essentially the same (although I acknowledge that birth order and being a younger sib vs. oldest child make a huge difference too, ie: DS3 is exposed to things much earlier than DS1 and DS2 were and DS1 tends to be more naive than his peers who have older sibs), BUT there are certain quirks in their personality that are IMO inborn trains. DS1 is VERY much like my side of the family, very sensitive, easily freaked out, more timid. DS2 and DS3 are JUST like my niece, loud, big temper, outgoing, very high maint, it is weird how much alike they are. Even my sil admits it (esp with DS2, he's like a boy version of my niece). So, due to my experiences, I can't help but feel that nature still plays a huge role. Parenting can make a difference too, but certain personality quirks seem to be familial. I'm evening noticing certain similarities btwn the way DH and DS3 act, and I don't think it's something that DS3 picked up, they just have some really similar quirks.

[ast96]

I lean towards nature more than nurture, especially when genetics are taken into the nature account. Like Hellokitty, I have three boys, and though I strongly believe that birth order affects a lot (plus my age and experience as a parent when each was born), they are so different... I really think nature is the biggest player in the game.

[mctlaw]

I think parents have a HUGE influence on behavior if they give too little attention or too much negative attention. But loving parents, which is hopefully most of us, just cope with and adapt to the quirky kids we are blessed to have.


I also believe parents who blame bad parenting for producing fussy eaters/rambunctious kids/bad sleepers/too clingy/whatever are pretty much guaranteed to have that issue in their next kid. Get smug about what an awesome parent you are, and karma will smack you down.

A big :yeahthat: to Wellyes. Before the birth of DS1, I was convinced I would raise a laid back baby because that is how I would be. Well, DS1 was not having any of that and was just wired differently than those babies who go with the flow and sleep anywhere. Those traits in him, though they present differently now, are innate to him and I quickly became a slave to his nap schedule, etc., just so I would not lose my mind post-partum.

[chozen]

i have read that holding your infant when crying or just holding alot, does not spoil them, as so many want to say. it seems to have the reverse effect and for us that has proven to be true. i really did not pay any attention to people saying why do you hold her so much etc. etc.,and we held our sweet girl when ever we wanted to, which was alot, when she was younger. she is four now and of course never wants us to hold her, we still get to rock her at times while we read etc. and sometimes she will say mommy will you rock me and i love it!

[Jrwusch]

DH has a T-shirt that says (he's a marriage/family therapist):

Nature vs. Nuture. Either way, it's your parents' fault ;)

[Simon]

I don't think enough people, in general, give credit to the fact that babies have an in-born temperment (nature). A large majority of babies are mild mannered or what we might call even-tempered. They are more go with the flow: they nap anywhere, they nurse or take bottles, anyone can hold them, etc. They have phases of colic or clingyness but these are just phases and are outgrown. If you get one of the fussy or "difficult" temperment babies, look out. They are a whole different ball game. So far, I have one of each.

We are *not* raising our two sons in the same way. I know that I am parenting them quite differently and I am OK with that because they have very different needs from us as parents.

Ex. Ds1 could/would easily sit through long meals (1 hour+) as a toddler and ate most anything. He was easy/great in restaurants so we insisted on excellent table manners. He also had amazing impulse control from the start.

Ds2 is a picky eater and a more typical toddler. I let Ds2 get up from the table, walk around, an adult will take him out of the restaurant, etc. We bring him special food. I never would have done that for Ds1. He didn't need it.

I am sure some of our friends/family think we are just being more permissive with Ds2. I consider it reacting to differences in our kids. As Ds2 ages towards 2.5 and 3yo, it is more developmentally appropriate to expect him to sit through the whole meal, eat what he likes from what is served, etc. and then we'll increase our expectations for him.

But, for now, their nature is leading us to provide very different forms of nurture for them.

[Mopey]

DH has a T-shirt that says (he's a marriage/family therapist):

Nature vs. Nuture. Either way, it's your parents' fault ;)

:ROTFLMAO:

Thanks everyone! I find it all so interesting, and as I have gotten to know more babies and children the hubby and I were saying it does seem some of them just come out that way.

For me the concern is to have a happy and happily independent child - so I find myself wondering what I can do to encourage that. I have seen anxious parents have an effect on their children and I would like to try to curb that if I can. And I have seen moms who can't bring themselves to let anyone else soothe their baby, so even the dad can't take care of it. I hope to strive for balance. And maybe this is because it is all very important to my DH too (maybe not all guys are like that? IDK).

But it also seems like a box of chocolates ;) I think I am getting impatient to meet this person and see who they are going to be!

[Simon]

There are lots of things I can think of but the first that comes to mind is:

For example - A baby that cannot be put down without getting fussy being run to/attended every moment - the moment it makes a peep. Do you think that contributes to their lack of learning to relax when left alone (not unattended)? Or do you think that child would be miserable/fussy no matter what?



I believe in the research that young infants need to "learn" that the world is a safe and secure place that will meet their needs. What those needs are, exactly, is different for different kids.

To address your specific example. This was Ds1. If he started to whimper as a baby, it would only get worse until he was picked-up/comforted, etc. and he only had one level of upset: total and complete panic! So, yes, we absolutely jumped to get him the instant he started up. There was no end to his upset, without adult intervention. He just couldn't do it alone (bring himself back to happy). As a toddler he was still clingy/didn't like to be all alone. But, so long as we were nearby, he would relax and entertain himself quite well. As a preschooler he became quite social and outgoing, it was just a long road to get there.

Ds2 could calm himself down, even as a newborn, so we didn't need to jump up and "rescue" him when he became upset. We would have but he just didn't need it in the same way. He is still a more laid back toddler and more go with the flow. I think this is just part of his nature/temperment.

[crl]

DH has a T-shirt that says (he's a marriage/family therapist):

Nature vs. Nuture. Either way, it's your parents' fault ;)

Our kids are adopted. So I'm a big believer in nature. :hysterical:

Catherine

[crayonblue]

I think parents have a HUGE influence on behavior if they give too little attention or too much negative attention. But loving parents, which is hopefully most of us, just cope with and adapt to the quirky kids we are blessed to have.


I also believe parents who blame bad parenting for producing fussy eaters/rambunctious kids/bad sleepers/too clingy/whatever are pretty much guaranteed to have that issue in their next kid. Get smug about what an awesome parent you are, and karma will smack you down.

Yes, this!!!!

[speo]

I lean towards nature more than nurture, especially when genetics are taken into the nature account. Like Hellokitty, I have three boys, and though I strongly believe that birth order affects a lot (plus my age and experience as a parent when each was born), they are so different... I really think nature is the biggest player in the game.

:yeahthat: Although I only have 2 boys.

[AnnieW625]

Wellyes said it best.

I firmly believe that a mix of both is good and necessary in life.

[niccig]

I too think it's both.

You mention anxiety. I think this can be learned from a parent that is anxious, but I have a laid back friend with anxious child, so it can also be nature.

If you have personality traits you do not want to pass on by learned behaviour, now is the time to work on those, so they are not modelled. Having DS is what sent me to therapy to deal with my reactions to stress and quick to anger - both I feel are learned from my father. I wanted to be more laid back and to not freak out over every little thing. It's not healthy of me, nor for DS to watch it. DS does have an easy going personality, like his Dad, but he's with me more, and I didn't want him to think it's reasonable to overreact all the time.

[StantonHyde]

I have a boy and a girl. They could not be more different. They were that day from day one and still are. As children age, you realize that you get what you get. And basically, if you don't actively screw them up, most kids will turn out ok.

Now, that works better for kids who are "weeds" like my DD. DS has dyslexia and anxiety. We do have to actively intervene to meet his needs and make sure he turns out ok. Dyslexia doesn't run in our family. I never thought I would look at a report card and say--oooh, we got a D instead of an F in handwriting-allright!!!!

DS has and continues to teach me how to parent. He is so unlike me--when he was a toddler, I would say to myself--"Ok, what would I do? Now, do the exact opposite." So his nature is greatly influencing my nurture!!!!!!

[Jo..]

I think parents have a HUGE influence on behavior if they give too little attention or too much negative attention. But loving parents, which is hopefully most of us, just cope with and adapt to the quirky kids we are blessed to have.


I also believe parents who blame bad parenting for producing fussy eaters/rambunctious kids/bad sleepers/too clingy/whatever are pretty much guaranteed to have that issue in their next kid. Get smug about what an awesome parent you are, and karma will smack you down.

This. I knew it all before I had kids. Hyper kids? Bad parents. Clingy kids? Bad parents.

I think it's both, but lean to guessing it's 80% nurture, 20% nature. We work with and adapt to the cards we draw.

DS and DD are very different in many ways. DS is cautious and sensitive. DD is a crazy daredevil who will try anything at least once (including EVERY food). DS is clingy, DD is independent.

Part of this is (I am sure) due to the way they were raised. With DS I was a nervous paranoid first time Mommy. I made relatives Purell before they touched him, and was a complete helicopter parent.

With DD I had some experience and was much more relaxed. I figured out germs were good and let her climb high playground ladders before she really knew how to walk.

Even kids raised in the same family have completely different experiences, so it's so hard to compare!

The question is very interesting, though.

[elektra]

DH has a T-shirt that says (he's a marriage/family therapist):

Nature vs. Nuture. Either way, it's your parents' fault ;)

Hehe.
As time goes on, as I see DD and DS developing, I weigh nature more than I used to. I definitely think they are so intertwined and nurture is a strong component of the entire makeup.
However, when I see how different both kids are, and how some of their gender roles seem completely intuitive to them, I can't help but believe there is more nature at play than I realized.
I have also learned to give the parents a break who I was so judgmental of before I had my own kids. The whole, "oh your kids are brats because you don't parent them well enough" kind of thinking, that I was so off base with, generally speaking.

[hellokitty]

DS has and continues to teach me how to parent. He is so unlike me--when he was a toddler, I would say to myself--"Ok, what would I do? Now, do the exact opposite." So his nature is greatly influencing my nurture!!!!!!

Nodding my head here. This is how it has been with both DS2 and DS3. It has been a lot easier to parent DS1, since his personality is more similar to mine and I feel more in tune with the way he thinks. DS2 and DS3 are mystifying and I find them difficult to parent, since it's the same as you, about having to sometimes do the exact opposite of what my gut instinct would be.

[Mopey]

I really appreciate all these opinions and tales of your kids! :)

I have always been really laid back, and now find myself over-thinking quite a bit all the crazy variables (and this so far is just about labor & delivery). I never thought of myself as that controlling but I guess I can be. I am definitely working on letting it all go! I am just ready to get this person here and start the road of parenthood I guess.

And yes, I want to strive to not be the nervous first time mom. Anyone think that's possible? ;)

[maestramommy]

That's really the million dollar question, isn't it? I think there is more research coming out that while some things a parent does can affect outcomes, a lot of times the outcome has been predetermined by the child's hardwiring. I think where it makes the most difference is in cases like babies/children at risk getting just a few extra advantages. OR at the other end of the spectrum, a child growing up with all the material advantages, but little in the way of "nurturing" or TLC.

I think though, and this is my observation both as a parent and member of this board, many parents choose a particular path/method/philosophy because it is already in line with their instincts. And the majority of the time everything works out just fine. It's not like they were going to go with one kind, but suddenly read about another method and decided, "Oh I'm going with this instead because I want my kid to be independent, intelligent, empathetic, confident, etc. instead of clingy, slow, selfish and insecure." Because imho most of the methods out there will get the kid there eventually. If a kid is having special difficulties, it not necessarily because the parent is doing something wrong, it's just that certain things are more challenging for some kids.

Most parents, in fact all the parents I know IRL and many here, are "aware,"that is, they make deliberate choices while still acknowledging that there is some factor of the unknown, that after a point, how the kid turns out is out of one's control. Behaving as if there is some way we can control every aspect of the outcome can be paralyzing. It can also be prideful.

The Atlantic had a cover article years back called, "The Case for Perfection," that talked about this very issue. I encourage you to read if if you can find it. It was both insightful and liberating.

ETA: I'd like to say I raised all of my kids the same way, but that's true only in the very general sense. Dora got a lot more attention in the beginning because she was the only one. Laurel got the next most attention because she was vocal and demanding. Poor Arwyn got the least because she was so laid back, and sandwiched in the middle. The only thing I can say I did for her is wear her almost all the time her first 2 years of life. It was the only way I could survive her timing (she was a "WTF??" baby, lol). The only thing I will say that was consistent of them was that none of them met my initial expectations of what a baby was going to be like. They were and continue to be so very different from each other.

[sste]

My husband has long (jokingly) called me a gene fascist because my belief has always been that most traits and characteristics are hard-wired.

I do think behavior can be changed and powerfully so but my feeling is that all change is hard and so you need to set yourself up for success by consistently using evidence-based strategies. When we felt like DS's behavior was verging out of control we went to an excellent behavior therapy program with a track record of success - - it wasn't so much that DS was "that bad" because comparatively he wasn't. It was that I believe that a relatively small number of techniques work for behavior change and I don't have time to mess around and wanted someone to deliver those to me, fast. :) If DS continues to be so sensitive/intense I am def. going to meet with a CBT therapist to see what strategies I can employ at home to help him - - he is never going to be a roll with it kind of person but I can help increase his level of happiness, reduce his tendencies to a degree, and channel these things so that they are strengths.

I will say I sometimes fall prey to the human tendency to conclude that MY kids' bad behavior is hard-wired and OTHER people's kids' bad behavior is learned. :) I have to remind myself that the division is probably not that neat!

[mjs64]

I recently read "Reasons to have more kids," whose argument was that parents stress themselves out too much over creating the perfect environments for their children, which leads them to view parenting as a more stressful experience than it need be. The book cited numerous studies that showed that parental influence decreases over time. Specifically, studies of twins separated at birth and adopted children showed that as adults, they behaved and attained educational levels much more similar by far to biological than to adoptive parents. So the thrust of the argument was: chill out! Your kids will be who they are. A conclusion not without some problems, but an interesting read.

Now I do think it's extremely important that parents provide a safe and loving environment for the child to develop secure attachment. And I also know that most days, despite all my reading, I'm just doing my best with whatever we're dealing with. I hold my baby when he's upset, but sometimes I don't get there fast enough, and...I make mistakes all the time. Mistakes I won't realize until years down the road, I'm sure. Theory is great, but as I'm in the trenches of diapers and dishes and ear infections, I try to relax and focus on what's most important: love.

[MoJo]

Megan, I have to steal your line!

"Theory is great, but as I'm in the trenches of diapers and dishes and ear infections, I try to relax and focus on what's most important: love."

At two weeks old, the nurses warned me JellyBean was SO laid back that she might not tell us if there was a problem. And from birth, Ha has fussed at every diaper change. I literally knew in the hospital she was a completely different personality than her sister.

There is a LOT to nature. But as parents, we can help them deal with their weaker areas and emphasize their strengths, and give them a loving environment to become the best them they can be.

[dogmom]

I fall back to my knowledge of dogs with this question. I've had 3 dogs, two Labs and one Coon Hound. One Lab was as shelter dog, not pure bred, loved to swim, I thought chased a ball well, food obsessed, very gentle. The next Lab was purebred from a field retrieve line. Never had to teach that dog to swim or retrieve a ball. All he did for 3 years of his life was retrieve stuff, swam like and Olympic champion. If he heard a gunshot he would little vibrate because he felt like he was supposed to be doing something. Then I got my Coon Hound, can't swim, couldn't care less about balls, but he will get a scent and track anything down. 4.5 acres was more than enough for my Labs, I think my Hound needs about 45 square miles to be happy. Will tree something and bark at it for an hour.

All my dogs have exhibited complex behavior patterns I did not teach them. They all can interbreed, they are all from the same species, but clearly not only do they have different temperaments, they are very different dogs. So somehow it just seems very naive and egocentric to thing somehow as humans we don't share same capacity for variation from birth. I realize we don't breed humans like dogs, but I certainly thing my kids have very different temperaments.

BTW: The other great piece of dog advice I used for parenting is from one of my dog trainers: "Remember, your dog (baby) has nothing else to do but figure you out. You are it's lifeline to everything. The dog (baby) doesn't have a job to go to or a house to clean like you, so he has all the time in the world to learn how to get your attention or get food or whatever."

[jk3]

Pre-kids I put more stock in nurture. I have three boys and they are individuals. It seems like they were prewired and that their personalities were fairly set from the get go. Extreme parenting can exacerbate natural tendencies but I think nature plays the larger role.

[Gena]

As an adoptee, I have spent a lot of time pondering the question of nature vs. nurture. It's been a long journey of researching genetics and psychology and searching for my biological relatives.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that it isn't nature vs. nurture at all. It nature with nurture, in a delicate and complex balance. Some things tend to tip towards one way and other things tip towards the other direction.

DS has multiple genetic disorders. They are part of his nature any they greatly affect who he is as a person. How we, his parents and his teachers! guide him and nurture him will be a big part of who he will become.

[m448]

Having children is the quickest shortcut to becoming aware of "you can only be in control of yourself" theory. I think the biggest nonsensical battle a parent can wage is trying to control their child or what their child does. You can be an example, you can equip them with tools, you can set up their environment for success but try as you might, you cannot control the outcome.

My four have had distinct personalities since birth although with my first we really didn't pick up on it at birth since we were first time parents. Even so it's been neat to see the permutations of human development in them all. Re: the clingy/fussy baby theory truly it's the best way to throw you into the thick of parenthood. What other way do you learn that hey, it's not all about you anymore so here you go. You either flow with it or you waste all your energy fighting against the current and missing out on some good times too. My younger brother saw the 18 month old the other day clinging to me for dear life during his visit. He asked, "is that normal?". She only does that when visitors are over and more so with big men with booming voices. I told him, "all four of them have done this at this stage" which pretty much rocked his world since the other 3 do not meet strangers. The older three will talk the pizza delivery guy's ear off, regale the librarian with TMI and give the cashier at the grocery store a play by play of the previous week at our home.