Considering Red Shirting...

[lovin2shop]

Just had a parent teacher conference for my just turned 4 year old, and he is struggling a bit. I think it is mostly struggling from a social perspective, but he is a little bit behind in gross and fine motor skills, and is almost, but not quite, on par with the academic subjects according to his teacher. He knows about half of his letters, and can count to 20, but doesn't count quantities properly. This is his first Preschool experience, so I was kind of expecting this to a certain degree, and he has another year of preschool to go. He's very shy, and also is very emotional. He is the baby of the family, he likes it that way, and gets coddled probably more than he should despite our best efforts to help him be independent.

We are currently enrolling for Preschool next year, and have to make the decision now to do a "younger 4's class" for those who are not going on to Kindy, or the true "PreK" program.

DS's birthday is in January and our state has a September cut off date. So, holding back a January birthday is a bit of a stretch for a redshirt. But, I would hate to do the PreK program and then hold him back and have to repeat the same program. Similarly, I don't want him to do the younger program which lacks some of the Kindy readiness skills and then decide that he should start on time without having the proper preparation.

I think for the most part, DS has always been "normal" on the milestones, but just slightly on the later side of normal. FWIW, he is miles behind where my older DS was at this point, but my older DS is just different altogether so I try to keep it all in perspective. Would you redshirt a child that is considered to be "just a little" behind?

[khalloc]

I wouldnt hold him back. My DS will turn 4 in April. He is definitely behind his sister on things like counting and knowing his letters. Our states cutoff date is September 1st also. It wouldnt even occur to me to hold him back. He can count to 10 but not always 20. I figure he has a whole year and 8 months to learn all this stuff before Kindergarten starts. Thats alot of time!

I could see holding kids back if they are very immature or have a August birthday. But not with a January one.

[JBaxter]

For a boy. IN A HEART BEAT. I did with my oldest ( nov bday when cut off was 12/31) and it was the best thing for him. I didn't with my October bday son and it took him till about 10th grade to really catch up.

[cuca_]

If I were you, I would keep my options open. I think I would do the PreK program, and look around for another program in the event you do decide to hold him back. A year can make a big difference. If you do the PreK next, you will have the option to enroll him in K or do another year of PreK somewhere else (assuming you have that option). I know some places have PreK/K programs for kids who need another year or have a late birthday. Holding him back might be the right decision, I just would not be ready to make that decision this early.

[mommytoC]

I think I'd rather have my DC repeat pre-K (if they weren't ready to start kindergarten) than enroll them in a "younger" class that might not meet (all) their needs.
It's a difficult decision (deciding to redshirt kindergarten), but even more so, I think, when you're trying to make it so far in advance.

[roseyloxs]

I can't imagine that there is anything that happens in pre-K that is actually needed for Kindergarten. If you decide to hold him back and then he is ready for Kindergarten I don't think the transition would be hard at all.

I would find out what happens in each class and decide which your son would enjoy more. At this age I think its more important that they enjoy school not that they 'learn' something everyday.

[BabbyO]

I think I'd let him go to the Pre-k class and evaluate again next year. Best case, he's caught up and ready to go to Kindergarten. Worst case, he repeats a pre-k class...I think I'd rather have him repeat a pre-k class than not have the pre-k class.

I'm not at that stage with my kids...so take my opinion for whatever its worth.

I will note that my brother has a late (27th) december birthday and when he turned 5 he was NO where near ready to go to kindergarten (state with a Sept 1st cutoff). But the following Sept he was totally ready to go. From the sounds of it he was at most 1 month older than your DS will be when he starts kindergarten. They can make a lot of progress in a very short time.

[Green_Tea]

I don't think that for a child who just turned 4 your son sounds behind at all. He sounds completely typical. He'll meet the K cut-off by a full 8 months, right? Children start K with a wide range of skills. From what you've said it sounds like he'll be considerably older than than many of his peers if he starts on time, and he has more than a year to develop the rest of the skills he needs to start. Shy and emotional are largely personality traits - he is just as likely to have them if he starts K a year later. I would not be alarmed at all, and would continue on the age appropriate course. You can re-evaluate in a year and go from there.

[wellyes]

I'd do the pre-K, and repeat it if necessary. I think a lot of kids repeat pre-K. At that age, better to be a little challenged to see if he rises to it or if he needs more time to develop.

[egoldber]

I agree that he sounds absolutely typical. He has 1.75 years before starting K.

With a January birthday, I would not red shirt for a September cutoff. He'll already be one of the oldest.

[lowrioh]

I can't imagine that there is anything that happens in pre-K that is actually needed for Kindergarten. If you decide to hold him back and then he is ready for Kindergarten I don't think the transition would be hard at all.

I would find out what happens in each class and decide which your son would enjoy more. At this age I think its more important that they enjoy school not that they 'learn' something everyday.

:yeahthat:

[ett]

I would put him in the pre-k class and reevaluate next year. He still has a year and a half before kindergarten. A lot can happen in a year and a half. It's really much too early for you to make a decision about K right now.

[mom3boys]

I would not hold him back. Put him in the regular PreK and see what happens. I know you do not want to repeat the exact same thing, but if he has trouble in PreK there may be another program (not Kindy) that you can send him to for a year (like another school) . . . that said, I really think there is a good chance he will catch up--or at least be ready enough for K.

My son with a September birthday is in K and I very much considered holding him back. He beats the birthday cutoff (Oct 1) by 5 days, so in most states he would actually miss the cutoff and be in PreK this year. He was also behind in fine motor skills and some social areas last year (he doesn't really like playing with children younger than about 8 years old, so he eschews his classmates. He has always been this way). Anyway, to be honest I don't know yet if he is going to be repeating K or going to first grade next year, but I have been SUPER impressed with his progress in the past year. His fine motor skills are much better, especially. So, although I think he may still be behind (he's my oldest, so it's somewhat hard to gauge), I'm glad I gave him the opportunity to try K. (In our case, if he needs to do K again, we will put him in a private K for a year rather than repeat in the same school). It also helps him that virtually no one in our area redshirts, so although there are kids nearly a year older than him, at least there are not children 13-18 mos. older in the same grade.

There are some consequences too to having a kid with a Jan birthday red-shirting. Certainly some kids regardless of their birthday need it, but that means your son will be 6.5 when starting K. He may mature earlier than the other kids, which can be hard on him (also, not that this would be your son, but the older kids also tend to be bullies, since they are bigger and physically stronger) and will be what, 19.5 when he graduates H.S.? IDK, seems old to me. I guess it might help with sports :)

[elektra]

I think I'd let him go to the Pre-k class and evaluate again next year. Best case, he's caught up and ready to go to Kindergarten. Worst case, he repeats a pre-k class...I think I'd rather have him repeat a pre-k class than not have the pre-k class.


This is what I would do based on how described the setup. I might also look into the difference between the two current offerings at the preschool.

My DD's school offers a 3's class, a 4's class and then a Pre-K for "older 4's or redshirts". I did not enroll my DD in the PreK, but rather the 4's. At her school that is still the track to go right into K. The PreK is comprised of kids who have already done the 4's, who are technically old enough to start K, but their parents want them to wait on K for whatever reason. But her 4's class is totally about K prep, but still definitely play based.

So I would change my advice if your DS's set up is actually more like my DD's, and send him to the 4's (or "younger 4's as you called it).

[megs4413]

I'd do the Pre-K and repeat it if necessary. You won't know if he's ready for K until you've tried to make him ready for K. If he's significantly behind at that point, I'd hold him back.

[KpbS]

If I were you, I would keep my options open. I think I would do the PreK program, and look around for another program in the event you do decide to hold him back. A year can make a big difference. If you do the PreK next, you will have the option to enroll him in K or do another year of PreK somewhere else (assuming you have that option). I know some places have PreK/K programs for kids who need another year or have a late birthday. Holding him back might be the right decision, I just would not be ready to make that decision this early.

:yeahthat:
He may be plenty ready in a year. It can make so much difference at this age. Hard decision, I know. :hug:

[o_mom]

I would put him in pre-K. This is not a case of a month or so before the cutoff, but he will be 6-19 months older than the other kids in K if you red-shirt.

He has over a year and a half and will most likely make huge gains in that time. Very worst case scenario - he does preK and then isn't ready, you could find another pre-K or K program rather than repeating the same one. However, IMO (please don't take it the wrong way), is that if a child 8 months older than the cutoff is not ready for K, there is something else going on and the best thing to do is to get intervention by putting him in K where he can get help.

[Kindra178]

His academic skills aren't behind. You describe 1 to 1 coordination, which isn't really necessary for preschool. With 1.5 years of preschool left, many things can change.

[lovin2shop]

I'm definitely leaning towards keeping him on track, but my DH is more interested in red shirting. It is extremely common where I live, so that is a factor. And, I think my DH hears from the sports minded Dads how great red shirting is for their boys. My kids are not particularly athletic, so I can't even imagine sports being a factor, but being with a bunch of already red shirted athletic kids does factor into the equation. DH's motivation is actually very kind-spirited (not athletic based) in that he just wants "to let the kid be a kid", and not push him to a level that he's not at yet. DH keeps asking me "what's the rush?", as I think it is getting hard for him to let go of the toddler/little boy stage, which I do find kind of sweet! But, this attitude is also probably kind of holding DS back in a way as well, as I don't think he's being encouraged enough to do things on his own.

But, I do think that you all are right, and we still have plenty of time to make this decision. I was just quite perplexed about how to fill out the registration form for next year. I think I may call his school to try to understand the more specific differences on the two program options and get some guidance on what class to select for him for next year. But either way, I'll probably be still deliberating this topic next year!

[MelissaTC]

I would go ahead and do pre-K. I had an entirely different kid from 4 to 5. At his conference (when he was in the 3's program, turning 4), they were telling me to prepare for keeping him back a year. At the pre-K conference, his teachers were telling me to register for K. They do so much growing in the upcoming years.

[sste]

Well, the suspicious part of me thinks these people want to get another year of pre-k tuition out of you!

Alot of the things you mention would only be concerning to me if the school and you have been working fervently and he is not catching on - - more of a learning issue. My son is the same age as yours and we have conciously avoided teaching him to visually identify letters or numbers because we don't want the opposite problem of being bored in kindy. I mean once in a while I point out a "B" or something but no more than that. DS learned on his own via either the elevator or the preschool to visually identify numbers 1-10 and I was actually a little annoyed! He has been able to count accurately since age two - - I think you may find that if you teach this skill using m&ms or other candy your child will catch on (very) quickly. :) We really focus on conceptual/creative/inferential/logic in terms of the questions I ask him or our games or reading.

Anyway, I have to tell you our kids sound identical on alot of items, such as counting aloud accurately from 10-20, and I would be hard pressed not to laugh if one of his teachers suggested red-shirting DS. I would apply some healthy skepticism to this situation.

[AnnieW625]

I wouldn't hold him back unless there is a problem with his learning skills in the pre k program first. For a child who just turned four that sounds completely normal skill wise.

[Clarity]

I agree that he sounds absolutely typical. He has 1.75 years before starting K.

With a January birthday, I would not red shirt for a September cutoff. He'll already be one of the oldest.

I agree with Beth. If you redshirt your child, he'll be turning 7 while he's in kindy. DD1 just started kindy this year and the children in her class vary quite a bit in skills but they're all making incredible strides.

[SnuggleBuggles]

No time to read other replies, sorry. We didn't red shirt and I have doubts now and again. But, then I think more and think deeply...ds1 is who he is and who he would be even if held him back. Holding him back wouldn't have changed anything. Academically he is where he belongs.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

And, I think my DH hears from the sports minded Dads how great red shirting is for their boys. My kids are not particularly athletic, so I can't even imagine sports being a factor, but being with a bunch of already red shirted athletic kids does factor into the equation.

I don't understand this thinking because youth sports are almost entirely age based in my experience. The age would only be a factor in playing school sports, so that wouldn't be until middle school/high school. With your son's birthday, red shirting would mean that he would never be on a sports team (soccer at least) with kids in his grade. That is not ideal, IMO. I know because my son is on the other end, younger than most in his grade, and we play him up in soccer so he can be on a team with his classmates. There's no option to play down in age.

Anyways, back to the kid at hand. I agree with sste's post above. My second son is slightly younger than yours, turning 4 at the end of April, and I think he has similar skills. In no way, shape or form, have I considered holding him back. In fact, I expect he will be a top student.

[pomegranate]

I would put him in the Pre-K class and then see how Pre-K goes. Then decide if you want to send him to K or not. If not, see if there are "Junior K," "Year to Grow," "Young Fives" programs in your area. My DS is 4 with a Sep birthday and Dec cutoff so he's a bit on the young side. He's in Pre-K now and I plan on sending him to a Junior K before he goes on to K. That way he's going to a new class and not repeating the same Pre-K class. Some other kids in his Pre-K class are doing the same so I just explained that after Pre-K, some kids go to K and some go to Junior K, and he's fine with that.

You should check around your community too, to see if redshirting is common. It's quite common, especially among boys, in mine.

Good luck!

[MoJo]

I may be coming at this from the wrong angle or not, having just attended my own preschooler's parent/teacher conference last night.

She was graded N for not having a full third of the skills on her chart. But I'm pretty sure NONE of the kids her age have all of the skills. It didn't seem to be anything like other report cards I've seen from older kids.

And then. . . I pointed out that she's still pretty young. Actually, it turns out she's the youngest child in the whole school. She's so tall (95th percentile) and her vocabulary is so "amazing" (their word, not mine) that no one even realizes how young she is. Most of her class has already turned four. They started talking about keeping her in the same class next year. . . which we won't be doing. She knew about half of the stuff before she started; she's been there for five months, and has a year and a half to go.

Mine is a June birthday with an August/September cutoff (in our state, it varies according to district, and I haven't looked into that yet). So she's always going to be one of the youngest. . . or one of the oldest.

She's doing VERY well (and similar skills to OPs son) and I don't have any plans to hold her back. I think she would be bored in K if we did. However, in my area, it seems nearly any boy who has a chance at playing any school sport in high school is redshirted for kindergarten.

[Calmegja2]

Our first child ( she is 16) was red-shirted by virtue of the cut off date for the state we lived in at the time, then we moved, she was automatically older.

The younger three- we chose to red-shirt all of them ( now 14,12 and 9).

We would do it again tomorrow. Twice, maybe even three times on Sunday. It has been a really great thing for all of them, and the teachers have always been in total agreement with our decisions.

I think it is a decision you have to reach together as a family, and working with the school and teachers to come to the best decision.

[crl]

I did red shirt my kid (not for sports) and I think it was a good decision for him. But nothing you are describing suggests red shirting to me. I'd move him on up and if he struggles, you can decide how to address it then. But he sounds pretty in target to me and kids this age often make big leaps over the course of six months or so, ime, so I would just move forward for now.

Catherine

[MommyofAmaya]

I was considering posting nearly the same question today as I am considering preschool options for my 3.5yo. He has a late July birthday and will likely be going into a GT elementary for K (testing for entrance would be at 4.5, or 5.5 if we wait). It would be awful if he didn't get "identified" at that time b/c we would have to commute to two different elementary schools. The GT admissions system is totally skewed in our district. 60% of all asian students and 40% of white students are classified as "gifted".. in an overwhelmingly minority district, for a total of 15% of the overall population. I am trying to decide whether to send him to a more academic preschool in case he actually is emotionally ready to test at 4.5.

In your circumstances, however, I agree with PPs. Turning 7 during K is stretch. I think that is really where "boredom" would be become a problem.

[sste]

MommyofAmaya, it would be very odd if the school didn't "age-norm" the gifted and talented testing. So in other words in my former school district an older child (and they actually age-normed by months!) would have to perform better to meet the g&t cut-off. So, red-shirting is only going to work if your child has advanced more than a year's worth in a year or if your district is following what would be a very bizarre practice of not age-norming.

That would suck that your kids could be in two different schools . . .

[maestramommy]

Seems kind of early to commit to holding him back a year in advance. He could totally catch up, then what would you do? If he has another year of preschool sounds like he's okay. I mean, I'm pretty sure Arwyn knew about that much at the end of last year, and her teacher said she was on track academically.

[MommyofAmaya]

MommyofAmaya, it would be very odd if the school didn't "age-norm" the gifted and talented testing. So in other words in my former school district an older child (and they actually age-normed by months!) would have to perform better to meet the g&t cut-off. So, red-shirting is only going to work if your child has advanced more than a year's worth in a year or if your district is following what would be a very bizarre practice of not age-norming.

That would suck that your kids could be in two different schools . . .

This is definitely gives me info to stew on sste. Thank you. It might have been a nearly a year before this occurred to me. Our district does have convoluted "matrix" to identify GT which includes a score for the Woodcock Johnson and Weschler dependent on (age-normed?) percentiles, parent recommendations, and obstacles (SEC, minority status, language).

[ast96]

I am on my third boy, and my experience is that you really can't tell until they are four. I would register him for the normal Pre-K and take it from there. You can't predict the pace at which a child will develop. He would be a very old redshirt, and I have seen ill effects from that in my other boys' classes.

My third son has an August birthday with a September 1 cut-off, and I'm not planning to redshirt him. He is on par with his classmates in every way except fine motor. That will happen. But I am evaluating him at 4.5, not just turned 4, and in Pre-K, not a three-year-old program.

[KHF]

In your circumstances, however, I agree with PPs. Turning 7 during K is stretch. I think that is really where "boredom" would be become a problem.

:yeahthat: There were kids in my daughter's class that were 7 mid-way through K. In retrospect, I wish I had red-shirted DD, but she has an 8/22 birthday with a 9/1 cutoff. A bit of a different story than you. She's struggling some with reading now in first grade, but her teacher has been great and she's going to get some one-on-one tutoring after school and over the summer to help her catch up. If I had known then what I know now, I would have held her back. She'd still only be six in K though, not 7.

I won't have to worry about it with DS. He's a 12/22 birthday, so no need to hold him back. I wouldn't even consider it unless he had some identified delays.

[hellokitty]

I would put him in the pre-k class and reevaluate next year. He still has a year and a half before kindergarten. A lot can happen in a year and a half. It's really much too early for you to make a decision about K right now.

:yeahthat: It's amazing how much kids can change in just one yr.

[Octobermommy]

I think it is way too early to make that decision about redshirting. I would put him in pre-k and worst case he repeats pre k.

[g-mama]

Redshirting a January birthday when the cutoff is September seems extreme, and that is coming from a mom who redshirted and would do it again in a heartbeat. But my ds was a late August birthday with a Sept. 30 cutoff.

So much can change in the timeframe you are looking at. If he is socially immature, he probably won't even realize or care if he were to do pre-k twice. Mine probably wouldn't have. But I don't imagine you'd end up doing that anyway. He is so young to be making that decision right now. Just wait.

There have been kids who turned 7 in their K year here, but it was always because the kid had just moved here from another country or something similar.

[vludmilla]

I don't think that for a child who just turned 4 your son sounds behind at all. He sounds completely typical. He'll meet the K cut-off by a full 8 months, right? Children start K with a wide range of skills. From what you've said it sounds like he'll be considerably older than than many of his peers if he starts on time, and he has more than a year to develop the rest of the skills he needs to start. Shy and emotional are largely personality traits - he is just as likely to have them if he starts K a year later. I would not be alarmed at all, and would continue on the age appropriate course. You can re-evaluate in a year and go from there.

:yeahthat:

[LexyLou]

I am a HUGE supporter of redshirting.

I red shirted DD1, who's birthday is the end of September and I'm almost 100% positive I'm red shirting DD2 who's birthday is August BUT I can't imagine redshirting a January birthday,

That just seems extreme.

I think it's way to early to even think of that. He has over 1 1/2 years before he would be going to K and that's a lot of time for development at this age.

I would put him in the pre-k program. If you are really concerned you can supplement at home with work books starfall or even do a Kumon or something, but really January is a little too old IMO to red-shirt.

[carolinamama]

I don't think that you can make that decision at this point. There is lots of time and many things can change between now and then. I, personally, think that I would enroll in the preK program and if it doesn't work out, he can always repeat that year.

[HIU8]

I PMed you.

[happymomma]

I red shirted my DS. But he is a late July birthday and our district has a 9/1 deadline. I am all for red shirting but I think doing it when your DS is already one of the older kids would be extreme. He would be so much older than his classmates.

[Dr C]

I think that like PP have suggested there is no way you can make this decision now, so you want to do your best to keep options open. I personally would go ahead and enroll in the Pre K program. You may well be astonished at what he learns in the next year!

If after the preK program you don't really feel he's ready for K you could do another year of private PreK (either at the same or another preschool), or even a year of private K, after which you make the decision as to whether he's ready for first or another year of K at a public school. LOTS of options.

FWIW, his development sounds pretty typical to me. We opted against redshirting DS, who has an August Bday (with a 9/1 cutoff), and he had some fine motor and speech delays he was still dealing with around age 4 (so the beginning of PreK for him). A year later he is absolutely thriving in K--he would be so bored if we had held him back!

[jk3]

I would not consider redshirting at this point. It sounds like he is in the mix and he will continue to progress before K.

[smilequeen]

He doesn't sound at all atypical and there is no way I'd consider redshirting a typical kid whose birthday was that far from the cutoff. But I have a July boy with an Aug 1 cutoff...I am pretty opposed to redshirting without a significantly good reason. I AM considering it, but am having him evaluated for some issues and probably not putting in a final decision until...oh...August :) There is a lot that happens between 4 and 5. Heck, a lot happened between 4 and 4.5. It's way too early to know anything.

[baileygirl]

He sounds like a perfectly normal 4 year-old to me! I get redshirting, but I have also seen the other side. I have a September birthday and started school in a state where I missed the cutoff my 2 weeks (my mom begged them to take me, but they wouldn't). Midway thru K, we moved to another state which had a cutoff of a month later...so I was basically redshirted. I qualified for a "gifted" program, but always felt that it was because I was older (not smart). Even though I was in advanced classes in high school, people always asked if I had been held back. Also, things like sports are generally based on age, not grade levels...so I was normally not on the same teams as my classmates.

[c914]

I have a 4 yr old with a March birthday. Hes not a "morning person" and last year he struggled socially at school with drop off and getting along with other kids. This year I put him in our public schools 4K program which is half days 5 x a week. At first I thought it was going to be "too much" school time but he has a cool teacher and now he absolutely loves going to school. I would have never guessed this much progress could be made in this period.